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My Experimentation With Loc Method Vs. Lc Method

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ckisland said:
I ordered mine from Bulk Apothecary when I ordered a bunch of oils and cocoa butter. I used the Aztec Healing Clay brand, and I think it's sold in some health stores on the ground. Next time I'm trying to order it from someplace with really really low shipping, because I only want the clay and one other thing.
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Thanks for this info!! :yep:

I've seen some of Naptural85's videos, and she seems to swear by the Terraessentials Brand.... This is the one she said she was using:

http://www.terressentials.com/Lavender_Garden_Hair_Wash_Extra_Large_16_fl._oz._pgl.html

I don't think I've heard of the apothecary one. I may have to do my research. I like the fact that the terressentials brand is already mixed for you. :yep: I know Naptural85 used a powder one and made her own mix later on down the line, but it just seems like so much work lol. :dizzy: Washing my hair is already work in itself lol, I would hate to do additional work.

The terressentials site said that once you "detox" your hair w/the clay and start using it regularly instead of shampoo, they basically said you shouldn't use any store bought shampoos, conditioners, or hair products because it will "undo" the healing properties of the clay. Is that true? Do you use 100% natural ingredients/oils/butters/ACV/Aloe in your hair now ONLY??

I mean, I don't mind doing that, but I just have a ton of hair products under my bathroom sink, I would hate to have to stop using them.....:look: :ohwell:
 
@Crystalicequeen123 :lol: I haven't used Terressentials to compare, and initially, I thought mixing my own clay seemed like a lot of work too. It wasn't at all :yep:.

My mix was clay, ACV, and essential oils. I would make a batch (takes less than 10 mins) and not have to make another for like 3-4 weeks. When I first started using the clay, I stilled used conditioner and other products. After trying it with different products, I realized that my hair stayed softer and more defined when I didn't use a conditioner after, but went straight to styling. For about 3 months, I was just using clay, ACV, and coconut oil or the cocoa butter mix I made. My hair was amazing!!!!! I got so many compliments and my routine was so simple.

People definitely use clay rinsed and conventional products :yep:. It's just with the clay, you don't need to anymore.
 
I totally agree with this...

ckisland said:
@Crystalicequeen123 :lol: :yep:
When I first started using the clay, I stilled used conditioner and other products. After trying it with different products, I realized that my hair stayed softer and more defined when I didn't use a conditioner after, but went straight to styling....

People definitely use clay rinsed and conventional products :yep:. It's just with the clay, you don't need to anymore.
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Apple Cider Vinegar has a corrosive effect so it can appear that it is making hair feel softer. Last year I did use some clay to cleanse my hair and followed that up with some oil and conditioner and my hair was as hard as a rock.

it's also a challenge for many black women to know what constitutes moist hair. And I think that many use a lot of extra oil and grease believing that that greasy means moist hair. We can also get obsessed with over moisturizing without realizing that sometimes what you think is dry hair is actually okay hair doesn't have to look or feel like a jheri curl to be moist.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
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almond eyes said:
Apple Cider Vinegar has a corrosive effect so it can appear that it is making hair feel softer. Last year I did use some clay to cleanse my hair and followed that up with some oil and conditioner and my hair was as hard as a rock.

it's also a challenge for many black women to know what constitutes moist hair. And I think that many use a lot of extra oil and grease believing that that greasy means moist hair. We can also get obsessed with over moisturizing without realizing that sometimes what you think is dry hair is actually okay hair doesn't have to look or feel like a jheri curl to be moist.

Best,
Almond Eyes
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When I was using clay, I stopped using ACV separately. It was doing something weird to my hair, and I think that it may have become too corrosive for my hair. The main things I noticed with using clay was that it made my hair overly accepting of moisture, so I had to use it every 2 weeks instead of weekly, and I could go a few days with product in my hair and it stayed moisturized :yep:.

Whenever I get my hands on clay again, I'm going to add AO GPB to my reggie and leave out the ACV rinses. I loved loved loved my hair those months I was using clay. It was the most moisturized, defined and shiny my hair has every been :weird:
 
For me it depends on the oil - jojoba, virgin pumpkin seed, grapeseed, and argan oils work best for me. I use oils right after rinsing. To me, its purpose is to give my hair the oil it would not get from sebum due to my curlier/coil-ier hair and its inability to run down the strands. Just a little before using a leave-in (which is an oil-free conditioner). I hate greasy hair. I use nothing else, but gel when I do wash and gos. I don't moisturize between washes and have gone a week without needing to moisturize. If I want some shine, I use a little of my butter mix mid-week. My butter mix as BTMS-50 in it.

There are a lot of natural hair rules not grounded in science. There have been things mentioned in this thread that do not make any sense scientifically. I chucked a lot of the rules and there is no difference to my hair. I follow science.
 
I concur. Sealing with an oil does nothing for my hair. If the cream has cocoa butter and other various oils, that's all I need for my hair. Cocoa Butter is extremely moisturizing for my hair. Add in Shea and I've got a winning combination.

It's amazing how these methods are followed with no real science behind it. All of that layering just makes my hair greasy. But then again, I have densely packed fine strands so my hair gives the illusion of being "thick."
 
Where are the scientists and the chemists to do some updated tests to see if oils really do moisturise the hair or just sit up on them?. Where is the updated science that has been performed on our hair and not just drawings from the internet to show that extra oils or added oils moisturize our hair. And if you have low porosity hair hair that tends to stay moist all the time how can you know accurately that it is the extra oil that is making your hair cling to moisture or if it not the properties of your hair already. As low porosity hair takes forever to dry.

As I said yes oils can have their place but not as an extra moisturizer or paired with water. Oils can be used to make hair shine a bit as mentioned, on straightened hair styles, to make stretched hair pliable and even on the scalp if you have a condition. But to take a dallop of oil and put that on top of your moisturizer to seal the hair doesn't make the hair moist it makes it greasy and actually blocks the moisture from your water and or/water-oil-emulsifier product.

Some women may find out that they do not have to do the LC daily once they eliminate the extra oils. I still do my LC daily but when I go into my hair the next day I am surprised to see that my hair is in a very good state not bone dry with some moisture left.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
almond eyes said:
Where are the scientists and the chemists to do some updated tests to see if oils really do moisturise the hair or just sit up on them?. Where is the updated science that has been performed on our hair and not just drawings from the internet to show that extra oils or added oils moisturize our hair. And if you have low porosity hair hair that tends to stay moist all the time how can you know accurately that it is the extra oil that is making your hair cling to moisture or if it not the properties of your hair already. As low porosity hair takes forever to dry.

As I said yes oils can have their place but not as an extra moisturizer or paired with water. Oils can be used to make hair shine a bit as mentioned, on straightened hair styles, to make stretched hair pliable and even on the scalp if you have a condition. But to take a dallop of oil and put that on top of your moisturizer to seal the hair doesn't make the hair moist it makes it greasy and actually blocks the moisture from your water and or/water-oil-emulsifier product.

Some women may find out that they do not have to do the LC daily once they eliminate the extra oils. I still do my LC daily but when I go into my hair the next day I am surprised to see that my hair is in a very good state not bone dry with some moisture left.

Best,
Almond Eyes
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Case in point: I used Annabelle's Perfect Blends Refresher Spray, then her Hair Lotion, and a dab of gel on each twist for a twist out. My hair is incredibly soft, pliable, and non greasy. Nope, didn't seal with an oil.
 
NaturallyATLPCH said:
Case in point: I used Annabelle's Perfect Blends Refresher Spray, then her Hair Lotion, and a dab of gel on each twist for a twist out. My hair is incredibly soft, pliable, and non greasy. Nope, didn't seal with an oil.
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Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My intention is for us to know that just because 'everyone' is doing it doesn't mean it really works. What is the science behind these methods? For years I thought that my hair was moisturized from the oil but to be honest it would get dry after an hour or two but I just accepted that this was my fate as a black woman.

I am sure there are others out there that figured out a long time ago that extra oil and butters aren't for everyone. Oils do not hold moisture on the hair it just sits there. I think women who are low porosity and use the extra oils can mistakenly believe that it is the extra oil helping their hair to retain moisture.

For all those women who are high porosity hair, try changing your method, you may surprised that your hair may not be as porous as you thought and is actually a medium porosity. If your hair is still extremely porous you may have to examine the health of your strands and may need to do some small trims.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
I think that there are some who believe that oils and butters moisturize, but then there are those who believe that oils create a layer that would encapsulate the moisture. There was an experiment that someone did with 4 jars of water with 4 different kinds of oil poured in. They left them there over a period of time to demonstrate that the oil prevents the oil from evaporating.

For this reason, I stopped doing LOC and started doing LCO. It didn't make sense to me to seal in the water then put a cream on top instead of sealing in the moisture period.

Also, as someone above mentioned not oil is created equal, just like not all moisturizers are created equal. Last summer, I also discovered that I could stop using an (medium) oil to seal and just rely on my moisturizer. Come winter, however, I didn't feel like the moisturizer alone was enough. Too much of the medium oils and my hair was left greasy. Since then, I've discovered a light oil that I really like. I'm not sure if I *need* it, but I like using it and my hair definitely hasn't suffered from using it. I use a little of it at a time, it absorbs quickly, and my hair feels good...great even (but I cannot attribute it to the oil alone.) I'm now able to go days without m&s'ing.
 
snoop said:
I think that there are some who believe that oils and butters moisturize, but then there are those who believe that oils create a layer that would encapsulate the moisture. There was an experiment that someone did with 4 jars of water with 4 different kinds of oil poured in. They left them there over a period of time to demonstrate that the oil prevents the oil from evaporating.

For this reason, I stopped doing LOC and started doing LCO. It didn't make sense to me to seal in the water then put a cream on top instead of sealing in the moisture period.

Also, as someone above mentioned not oil is created equal, just like not all moisturizers are created equal. Last summer, I also discovered that I could stop using an (medium) oil to seal and just rely on my moisturizer. Come winter, however, I didn't feel like the moisturizer alone was enough. Too much of the medium oils and my hair was left greasy. Since then, I've discovered a light oil that I really like. I'm not sure if I *need* it, but I like using it and my hair definitely hasn't suffered from using it. I use a little of it at a time, it absorbs quickly, and my hair feels good...great even (but I cannot attribute it to the oil alone.) I'm now able to go days without m&s'ing.
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Thanks for your response.

I think that is why it is important to find a good moisturizer that contains , good oils (not cheap filler oils), an emulsifier and a liquid of some sort. When you do, the magic happens. It's not good enough to get a product that says moisturising butter if it only contains all oils or if it doesn't contain an emulsifier to bind the liquid and the oils, one must really check their ingredients.

We all know by now that the only moisture comes from liquids. That is why I don't suggest just using a moisturizer alone because when you add the liquid from a spray bottle you are using liquid straight from the source. I suggest a spray bottle of water or (milk, I haven't tried that yet but it qualifies as a liquid perhaps, don't quote me on using milk, powdered or other wise, juice anyone!!!!!!!!Not sure about that either but stick to water) and your moisturiser (can even be a liquid leave in (I experimented with Komaza's Califa leave in (it did the trick too) that I almost threw down the drain last year because I used it with extra oil and that combo made my hair hard, thank goodness I saved it). One doesn't have to get the hair sopping wet with the spray bottle. Just enough to mist the hair. Then add the moisturizer and do your twists, braids etc. No oil no butter.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
As you said it's trail and error. For example using water as a moisturizer from a spray bottle does nothing for my hair. I'd have to add a leave in to bottle. However, if I count the water from washing or rinsing my hair as my "liquid" then add my moisturizer then my hair stays moist longer.

To make a cream or lotion you need to have water, an oil and an emulsifier. I think that there should be some caution in saying that if the moisturizer has oil then you don't need more oil. By that logic one could argue that because it has water then you shouldn't need to spritz.

I think that in the same way various liquids affect hair (in and out of a moisturizer), the same way various oils can affect people's hair.

You can think of it like baking or cooking. Putting salt into the recipe will produce a different taste than putting salt onto the finished product. And depending on if it's in or on the quantity that you use could differ.

I do agree that one should consider what oils (if any) that agree with your hair and consider how you use it (in or out of the moisturizer and how much).
 
almond eyes said:
Where are the scientists and the chemists to do some updated tests to see if oils really do moisturise the hair or just sit up on them?. Where is the updated science that has been performed on our hair and not just drawings from the internet to show that extra oils or added oils moisturize our hair. And if you have low porosity hair hair that tends to stay moist all the time how can you know accurately that it is the extra oil that is making your hair cling to moisture or if it not the properties of your hair already. As low porosity hair takes forever to dry.

As I said yes oils can have their place but not as an extra moisturizer or paired with water. Oils can be used to make hair shine a bit as mentioned, on straightened hair styles, to make stretched hair pliable and even on the scalp if you have a condition. But to take a dallop of oil and put that on top of your moisturizer to seal the hair doesn't make the hair moist it makes it greasy and actually blocks the moisture from your water and or/water-oil-emulsifier product.

Some women may find out that they do not have to do the LC daily once they eliminate the extra oils. I still do my LC daily but when I go into my hair the next day I am surprised to see that my hair is in a very good state not bone dry with some moisture left.

Best,
Almond Eyes
Click to expand...

I read an article, based on science, that supports your ideas...will try to find and post for everyone. It immediately came to mind when I saw your post day 1.
 
For myself, sealing with an oil, butter, or pomade doesn't aid with moisture; but instead makes my hair more pliable/flexible. My thick strands get moisture from my steam DC, but is harder to style and looks more rough when I don't use an oil based or heavy gel product after my leave in. Both is even better

Eta: I know that the layering won't easily allow water or other product to readily absorb into (or out of) my styled, low porosity hair so, I don't bother using moisturizers between washes and I shampoo every wash.
 
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snoop said:
As you said it's trail and error. For example using water as a moisturizer from a spray bottle does nothing for my hair. I'd have to add a leave in to bottle. However, if I count the water from washing or rinsing my hair as my "liquid" then add my moisturizer then my hair stays moist longer.

To make a cream or lotion you need to have water, an oil and an emulsifier. I think that there should be some caution in saying that if the moisturizer has oil then you don't need more oil. By that logic one could argue that because it has water then you shouldn't need to spritz.

I think that in the same way various liquids affect hair (in and out of a moisturizer), the same way various oils can affect people's hair.

You can think of it like baking or cooking. Putting salt into the recipe will produce a different taste than putting salt onto the finished product. And depending on if it's in or on the quantity that you use could differ.

I do agree that one should consider what oils (if any) that agree with your hair and consider how you use it (in or out of the moisturizer and how much).
Click to expand...


You are right there is a a science to the proportions for sure.

I think with the moisturizer that contains oil nope you don't need more oil and I don't read the directions stating that more oil is needed. With the spritz, I don't think water has the same effect as the extra oil. And I spritz with my own water bottle.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
caliscurls said:
Found it: http://blackgirllonghair.com/2014/0...uid-cream-then-oil-lco-does-the-order-matter/

It basically says the order in which creams and oils/butters are applied doesn't really matter because they end up mixing together. The key is water first. So, to your point @almond eyes if your leave in already has oils in it you may not need a sealant afterward. The writer of the article is known for her scientific research on natural hair care.
Click to expand...


Thanks so much for that supporting article.

I agree the water first is key whether from a shower, sink or spray bottle. And the leave ins if they have oils there is no need to do a sealant of oils afterwards, I agree.

The money I have spent on extra oils over the years, well I will be saving that now.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
Nightingale said:
For myself, sealing with an oil, butter, or pomade doesn't aid with moisture; but instead makes my hair more pliable/flexible. My thick strands get moisture from my steam DC, but is harder to style and looks more rough when I don't use an oil based or heavy gel product after my leave in. Both is even better

Eta: I know that the layering won't easily allow water or other product to readily absorb into (or out of) my styled, low porosity hair so, I don't bother using moisturizers between washes and I shampoo every wash.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about the pliability especially when you have stretched hair and you want to style it, the pomades, greases, oils and butter do help tremendously and prevent the shrinkage but nope do nothing for moisture.

Even with the gels that contain oil, when I have added oil on top of that gel before or after the same result hard hair.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
divachyk said:
I read through this thread earlier so not sure if this was shared ---
http://www.naturalhairrules.com/the-loc-method-2/
Click to expand...

I know it talks about using the penetrating oils and I don't believe that I think we use way too many products. I have spent so much money over the years and hard earned money too on many oils and have experimented with many of them and I want to prevent black women from becoming product junkies. And the oils I have used in the past two years have been olive oil , jojoba oil, avocado and coconut oil. And again my experiment showed me that extra oils are not necessary and are just greasy and lead to facial breakouts and ruined clothes. I think psychologically, we feel we must have that oil on our hair like grease. Like my mother is addicted to the use of combs, i have only liberated myself from the daily use of a comb a few months ago.

For women who are low porosity, I keep saying they may think that it is the oil that is keeping their hair moist when in truth it is their hair type that holds on to water for a long time.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
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I find that baggying makes my hair soggy.

I think that trying to fix dry hair isn't through over moisturisation through baggying.

You can find that sweet spot through other means.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
I read this thread and tried water as my leave in and sealed with qhemet Alma (the one with the long name). I felt that my hair was cotton soft but curl definition was zero. I was okay with that though. So I tried it with TGIN green tea leave in (oil based) and sealed with their argan oil. This time my hair was moisture and I had some definition. Thanks ladies. Now I will be experimenting with different leave ins, oils and creams.
 
@almond eyes I dealt with low porosity hair in the past and still have some showings of it now.

I went through of period of skipping sealing and I thought all was well. Months later, my ends were raggady. Could have been fluke or could have been the lack of sealing. I returned to sealing for safe measure.

The need to seal has to do with product and its ability to keep my hair moisturized. Spraying with water and using a cream with an emulsifier left my hair bone dry back in the day. I tried it again last night for old time sake with the same result. My hair does better with a moisturizing spray, cream and oil when moisturizing throughout the week. On wash day, my hair does good with LOC with dabur vatika coconut oil as my O.
 
divachyk said:
How long do you baggy? 2 hour is my max. @charmtreese @IDareT'sHair
Click to expand...

I baggy over night(~7 hrs) just about every ever night. When I baggy I do my normal moisturizing routine. Normally a leave in spray or steam from the shower, coconut oil, and or Shea butter mix. I baggy the entire back portion of my head ( I leave my edges out of the Baggie). I wear twist mostly now, but when I use to wear my hair in a puff or if my hair is in a twist out I pineapple first and then baggy.
 
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