Aviah
Well-Known Member
Wow, I've never seen that before! Wonder why God took the Kingdom from his sone, rather than Solomon himself... Another thread entirely that would be...
Multiple Wives?
- Thread starter Aviah
- Start date
Wow, I've never seen that before! Wonder why God took the Kingdom from his sone, rather than Solomon himself... Another thread entirely that would be...
DivaD04
New Member
girl, don't get me to lying...after reading Kings...King S was in a tangled mess
Aviah
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what to take here, he wasn't allowed to have "foreign" wives, because they would lead his heart astray, but he according to the law wasn't allowed to have many wives anyway, because he was a king (Deut 17:17)?
erplexedI just had a thought, not advocating for/against, just thinking out loud....
Jesus always tells us when he does not want us to do or have something in our lives, his voice is loud and clear, ....
On this subject, his voice does not seem loud and clear,...Could this mean that he does not have a problem with it and it "may" be some of our own hangups that may not allow the concept of multiple wives being acceptable?
Just thinking out loud....
Jesus always tells us when he does not want us to do or have something in our lives, his voice is loud and clear, ....
On this subject, his voice does not seem loud and clear,...Could this mean that he does not have a problem with it and it "may" be some of our own hangups that may not allow the concept of multiple wives being acceptable?
Just thinking out loud....
Aviah
Well-Known Member
I just had a thought, not advocating for/against, just thinking out loud....
Jesus always tells us when he does not want us to do or have something in our lives, his voice is loud and clear, ....
On this subject, his voice does not seem loud and clear,...Could this mean that he does not have a problem with it and it "may" be some of our own hangups that may not allow the concept of multiple wives being acceptable?
Just thinking out loud....
Interesting... (thinks: Why wasn't i born a man?) lol
DivaD04
New Member
as much time and effort it takes to take care of biz....i think i'm glad being a woman
at least all i have to do is cook
, clean
, chastise:sandm:, and look cute
for dh.
look: 
discobiscuits
New Member
Thanks but that still does not answer my post.
discobiscuits
New Member
I noticed that you quoted my post in your reply so I am interpreting that to mean that the scripture references you posted below my quote are to answer my post. Those scriptures do not address my post.
My post was asking anyone to address Solomon, who had 700 wives, being an alleged polygamist and yet be blessed by God.
Solomon was never instructed by God not to have multiple wives. God instructed Solomon to keep his heart upright and to walk before Him as his father David did and if he did so his throne would be established over Israel forever (I Kings 9:4-5). If Solomon or his sons turned from God to serve other gods (I Kings 9:6-7) then He would cut Israel off. Solomon was good until I Kings 11. He loved many foreign (strange) women from the nations that God told the children of Israel NOT to marry (Deuteronomy 7:3,4). Solomon disobeyed that order, married the women and when he was old, they turned his heart from God and he served and worshiped other gods and God exacted His punishment for Solomon's disobedience.
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However, my post was slightly OT as the OP wanted to know what happens when someone who has or has had multiple spouses comes to Christ, which spouse do they keep or stay with? The OP mentioned other cultures, and she posed a good question for thought. If it is accepted in your society to have more than one wife, and you accept Christ, which wife do you keep since Christians believe in one husband, one wife.
One husband, one wife is what led me to ask my question. God would have established Solomon's throne forever had Solomon worshiped only God. There was nothing in God's promise that discussed multiple marriages, only forbidding Solomon from intermarrying with women from the forbidden tribes or groups.
David had multiple wives (2 Samuel 5:13, I Chronicles 3:1-9) and he is known as being a man after God's heart. God loved David and he Him. David's throne would have been established through Solomon had Solomon obeyed. God still had to get Jesus in the earth so He gave one tribe of Israel to Solomon's son for David's sake (I Kings 11:13). If God only allows one husband and one wife, He would not have blessed either of them as they both had multiple wives. The bible is clear that David sinned when he murdered Uriah so that he could have Bathsheba.
Christians use Genesis and the no adultery commandment to support our belief and position that polygamy is a sin. But I have not come across one verse with specific instructions from God (specifically God, not the apostolic writings in the NT) to only have one wife.
Deuteronomy 21:15 teaches how to inherit the first born son of two wives, one wife who is loved the other is not loved. This scripture does not condemn multiple wives. Deuteronomy 17:17 teaches that the King of the people should not have many* wives; why? because they will turn his heart to be led astray - Solomon. Didn't say anything about the people.
*apparently there is a difference between many wives (meaning a lot) and multiple wives (meaning more than one). David had eight wives = multiple (not sure if simultaneously or consecutively) and Solomon 700 = many.
Jesus taught against divorce in Matthew, but Jesus did not say it was wrong to have more than one wife. Jesus taught that when one marries, the two flesh become one, but not only one man marry only one wife which implies a man can become one flesh with more than one woman. Jesus also said that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it and the OT law allowed for multiple wives.
In Genesis, God created man and woman. Now, there is always the question who "knew" whom to populate the earth. If you take the position of one man Adam and one woman Eve, then one must postulate that they "knew" each other and their children in order to populate the earth. However, if you know that the original text Adam is not just a name for an individual man, but the name of the gender man and that Eve is not just the name of an individual woman but is the name of the gender female, then one can postulate that God created the gender male and the gender female and several individuals in each gender to populate the earth. In either case, Adam and Eve (individual or gender) were never "married" as we know it today. Meaning they did not meet, fellowship (date) get engaged and then married. The were created, and as there was no sin in the earth (yet), they knew what their role was and fulfilled it. However, Genesis does not specify one husband one wife.
Do NOT take what I've posted to be my belief or my opinion on God's will. I BELIEVE that there should only be one husband, one wife and that just because I have found no specific word from God or Jesus to the contrary that does not mean that it is not God's will.
This thread is a good example that goes back to that thread on believing every word in the bible. Wile I trust God that everything in the bible as we know it contains everything believers need to live holy, I also know that it is quite possible that things could have been omitted in an attempt to benefit those in power politically and religiously at the time the bible was translated for the people to read. But I already said some of that in the other thread.
As usual, please correct any errors I may have. Thanks.
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Aviah
Well-Known Member
I completely understand and agree with a lot that is posted here,. Especially about the points that David had an excessive amount of wives and was considered upright before God. What doesn't make sense is where it says in Deuteronomy that the King of the people must not have many wives... Didn't David have more wives after that? Even if he didn't, where is the cut off point before it becomes many? And if all of these wives were form the Israelite nation, how would they have turned his heart astray?
But again, very good points...
discobiscuits
New Member
That's why I contrasted him with his son Solomon. David had 8 which may fall in the category of multiple but not many and Solomon had 700 which in anyone's definition can be considered many as well as multiple.
Some translations of the Deuteronomy passage read "do not multiply". Multiply and many are interchangeable between the various translations. If one wants to analyze words, the king was not to multiply which could be interpreted 2 wives into 4 wives into 16 wives implying instead that the king could add not multiply. In that same passage, the King was told not to accumulate large amounts of silver and gold. It appears again, that the instruction is not to acquire large amounts of things including wives. David had fewer wives than Solomon. David's heart stayed true to God, Solomon's did not and it was because he had many wives and they were from the forbidden groups.
Many is a quantity word much like the words couple, few, several. It indicates an undefined amount of some thing but we understand that many would be more than few. Example: I have many bottles of conditioner, I will give a few away. Example: I have several combs but I only use a couple of them. But one could have multiple bottles of conditioner and multiple combs and yet it is unknown if the amount is many or few, just more than one or two.
Multiple is a little more generic. It seems to indicate a variety or an amount of something indicating more than one item without implying a large amount. Example: There are multiple types of apples we can choose from in the store. Once we choose the types, we can then have as many or as few of each type or one type that we want.That amount can range from one apple to as many apples we can afford or eat or that are available to purchase. Apples are individual items that most people get more than one of but not many. If you contrast that with a bunch of grapes. There are different types of grapes and a grape is an individual item but they come in bunches. Each bunch one takes increases the amount exponentially thereby multiplying how much you have. Both examples can be multiple and that multiple can be increased. Apples could refer to more than one wife each taken individually whereas grapes could refer to a large amount of many wives.
God told the Israelites which types of "apples" they could choose from to marry and which ones to leave alone. God said that the king could not marry certain types of "apples" and not to have many "apples". I did not see where the king could only have one "apple".
The English majors and writers on this forum could do a better job than I in trying to show the distinction. But I hope that made a little sense.
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discobiscuits
New Member
The ones that turned Solomon's heart away and the ones that God instructed the Israelites not to marry were those from Deuteronomy 7:1. Those were the people in the promised land who they were to overthrow and destroy. They were not Israelites. One of the forbidden nations listed were Hittites and Solomon took Hittite wives. Deuteronomy 7:1 and I Kings 11:1 list some of the forbidden nations.
God's instruction not to marry them came with the warning that they would turn their hearts because those nations worshiped other gods and idols which was also forbidden for the Israelites to do.
discobiscuits
New Member
Here is why I believe why one man is to have only one wife:
In my 1st post I was showing where there are examples of men with more than one wife. I also explained that the names Adam and Eve could be names of individual people as well as the name of a collective gender. However, the bible is clear that through ONE man's disobedience, sin entered the world (Adam the individual person not the gender) and through ONE man's obedience we are saved (Jesus). If one man sinned, then one man was in the garden and he had one wife named Eve who took the fruit (fruit not apple) and he was with her when she did it.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man (singular) leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife (singular not plural): and they shall be one flesh.
Matthew 19:4-8 (King James Version)
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered (allowed) you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving (except) for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Now, apparantly, God allowed the people to choose certain things and He allowed it. Perhaps He did allow multiple wives. I wish I could say that it was pre-flood but David and Solomon came after the flood as did the commandments which God gave to satisfy the people - they asked for it. They asked for rulers. They asked for and got a lot of things which actually placed them in bondage. Paul wrote that it is becasue of the Law that we know what sin is, without it we would not and yet we can do by nature nothing but sin. That is why we need the Holy Spirit and that Paul taught that we can do all things through Jesus who strengthens us.
I believe, that when Jesus came to fulfill the law, and he taught on divorce, if you read the rules of divorce and marrying a divorced woman in the OT, you see in the NT that Jesus said divorce was allowed (by man - Moses, not God) b/c the people asked for it out of the hardness of their hearts and got it but that is not what God designed in the beginning. Jesus said that what God designed was leave and cleave, two individuals become one flesh and stay one, they are not to be separated just because the law allowed it did not mean that was what God wanted.
In the qualifications to be a bishop, he must be a man of one wife (I Timothy 3:2). An elder must be a man of one wife (Titus 1:6).
I also want to clarify the following:
I said in my 1st post that what Jesus did not say could or may be interpreted or construed to mean that one man can become one flesh with more than one woman. That is in fact how some interpret and construe it but that is not correct and it is clear that Jesus did not mean that.
I think that multiple wives applies only to the office of the King of Israel. Job only had one wife. He was not a king. Noah only had one wife. He was not a king.
There are so-called Christian groups and individuals who use the scriptures that I referenced in my 1st post to support their desire to have many wives. While I see the human logic in that, I do not concur that it is scriptural or spiritually or morally correct. When Jesus came He made it clear that the Law was incomplete and failed and could not save but He came to complete it and that He saves. Jesus himself only has one bride/wife and that is the church (made up of many individual believing souls) and Jesus is the King.
In my 1st post I was showing where there are examples of men with more than one wife. I also explained that the names Adam and Eve could be names of individual people as well as the name of a collective gender. However, the bible is clear that through ONE man's disobedience, sin entered the world (Adam the individual person not the gender) and through ONE man's obedience we are saved (Jesus). If one man sinned, then one man was in the garden and he had one wife named Eve who took the fruit (fruit not apple) and he was with her when she did it.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man (singular) leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife (singular not plural): and they shall be one flesh.
Matthew 19:4-8 (King James Version)
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 7They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered (allowed) you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving (except) for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Now, apparantly, God allowed the people to choose certain things and He allowed it. Perhaps He did allow multiple wives. I wish I could say that it was pre-flood but David and Solomon came after the flood as did the commandments which God gave to satisfy the people - they asked for it. They asked for rulers. They asked for and got a lot of things which actually placed them in bondage. Paul wrote that it is becasue of the Law that we know what sin is, without it we would not and yet we can do by nature nothing but sin. That is why we need the Holy Spirit and that Paul taught that we can do all things through Jesus who strengthens us.
I believe, that when Jesus came to fulfill the law, and he taught on divorce, if you read the rules of divorce and marrying a divorced woman in the OT, you see in the NT that Jesus said divorce was allowed (by man - Moses, not God) b/c the people asked for it out of the hardness of their hearts and got it but that is not what God designed in the beginning. Jesus said that what God designed was leave and cleave, two individuals become one flesh and stay one, they are not to be separated just because the law allowed it did not mean that was what God wanted.
In the qualifications to be a bishop, he must be a man of one wife (I Timothy 3:2). An elder must be a man of one wife (Titus 1:6).
I also want to clarify the following:
I said in my 1st post that what Jesus did not say could or may be interpreted or construed to mean that one man can become one flesh with more than one woman. That is in fact how some interpret and construe it but that is not correct and it is clear that Jesus did not mean that.
I think that multiple wives applies only to the office of the King of Israel. Job only had one wife. He was not a king. Noah only had one wife. He was not a king.
There are so-called Christian groups and individuals who use the scriptures that I referenced in my 1st post to support their desire to have many wives. While I see the human logic in that, I do not concur that it is scriptural or spiritually or morally correct. When Jesus came He made it clear that the Law was incomplete and failed and could not save but He came to complete it and that He saves. Jesus himself only has one bride/wife and that is the church (made up of many individual believing souls) and Jesus is the King.
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