I'm an agnostic,she said. "Does this mean..now..I lose your friendship?"

[kayte]

My dear friend and I and another woman ...also great friend were having a
mastermind meeting this afternoon and it was beautiful and life affirming ...we were so energized and bonded as sisters though
we are Mexican... Italian and African American

As a Christian,I cannot help acknoweldging God's hand in my business
and I don't how to talk for very long with out calling on His name
I am no evangelist and I have a temper..and ego and am very human in this way but my love of God...even when angry and frustrated with Him
is too real..... to not talk about Him

At our meeting which was to caucus about our entrepreneurial pursuits and support each other...during the meeting I would say things...naturally...By the grace of God I was able to do blah blah ...or Thank God...for blah blah...or God really came through for me

my dear friend says....after the meeting is formally over but we are talking
of other things...out of the blue ..my friend..call her Anna... says I just need to make an affirmation...
The other woman-call her Susie,...Susie and I look at her and nod our heads...yes yes affirm....
Anna saysI AFFIRM IT'S OKAY THAT DO NOT NEED OR HAVE TO HAVE A GOD ...MY SPIRITUALITY IS MYSELF

I am so uncomfortable with this declaration! Not because she is agnostic...bu it felt like an answer to my talking about God!
I sat there miserably not even looking at her...of course she noticed

Am I supposed to apologize for ...or suppress loving God Jesus Christ
so that somehow people dont feel the need to counter or make anti Christ rebuttals.....
Susie left soon left...and Anna and I were alone and she said I have to ask you...did I offend you.....

Me... Well no but I'm puzzled I guess...I mean...I can't NOT talk about God...and did that prompt you to say what you did?
Anna No....
Me: Do you mean you would have said that....anyway..
if I had not mentioned GOD
Anna ...YES I would... I said it for ME

I just sat there...cas I felt it WAS in response to my Christianity but clearly Anna honestly thought it was not

THEN.......
Anna...."Does this mean our friendship is over?"
I thought..........Ahhhh....THAT'S...what....THIS is

"Oh!" I said...."What you are really asking is ...DO I ACCEPT ...you?
the answer is yes...I love you!..you are my friend...I DO accept you
but I MUST tell you....my heart wishes you knew God....and HIS love
I am not saying that to evangelize...it's because my life is so blessed because HE is in it.I hate to be evangelized and I certainly hope I am not doing that with you"

She said "I am relieved I didn't want to pretend
I need to be honest about who I am and no ..I know what you are saying
If there is some thing beautiful and lovely in my life..then- I want to share it with my friends..it's natural you want to share GOD
for me....to have what you have...too

I was glad of the honesty...now that I was made aware I could see MANY instances...Anna actually HAD been pretending..for my benefit..until she felt compelled to out her self as agnostic and kind of..confront me in her own way with the information....

I can only show my love of God to the non-believer..
I cannot be the Holy Spirit but He
was right in the midst....

 

[CoilyFields]

You handled that well sis. A lot of times we as believers find it hard to accept unbelievers once they make a declaration of compelte disbelief. It is a careful road to tread (i.e. making sure that your faith remains strong while engaging with them and NOT being offended by their unbelief).

Keep Praying for her that she will see the light of God in you and glorify our father in heaven.

 

[Guitarhero]

I am so uncomfortable with this declaration! Not because she is agnostic...bu it felt like an answer to my talking about God!
I sat there miserably not even looking at her...of course she noticed

Am I supposed to apologize for ...or suppress loving God Jesus Christ
so that somehow people dont feel the need to counter or make anti Christ rebuttals.....
Susie left soon left...and Anna and I were alone and she said I have to ask you...did I offend you.....

Yes, you are. Your love of Jesus is not supposed to oppress the free will of others which God so lovingly gave to us all. He never forces anybody to love Him. If you show anger over her type of spirituality, which seemed to be very respectful of your feelings (never having spoke up before even though she were uncomfortable), then this is not living the gospel. If the bible tells us to be kind and apologize one to another, it's for everybody, not just between Jews or between christians. God sees us all as His children. Of course, there are those with a diff. relationship developed between us and Him. But He loves us all the same. She doesn't want to hear the gospel thrown down her throat all the time. I think you three can come to a gracious compromise. Remember, the best witness is how one lives, not how one talks about it.

Matthew 19:16-22



The Rich Young Man

16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
18"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[a] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[b]"
20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.


In this scripture, the guy asked, Jesus told. The choice was the young guy's. The Creator never forced His hand. Incidentally, the reason I became catholic when I accepted the gospel was this type of witness. I sought, no one condemned me. I was so tired of all the others who practically spit in my face for not accepting them. Honestly, they were not happy, balanced people and I didn't want anything to do with that. And I'm not at all sure they meant well in trying to 'share' the gospel. I think there is a fine line between people who are genuinely concerned for a soul and those who don't give a flying blip but wish to condemn them to hell from their own curse (for not accepting their pitiful attempt at shoving the gospel). I know this is not you. If it were, you wouldn't even be asking the question. You are a true friend, honest and caring.

 

[kayte]

Yes, you are. Your love of Jesus is not supposed to oppress the free will of others which God so lovingly gave to us all. He never forces anybody to love Him. If you show anger over her type of spirituality, which seemed to be very respectful of your feelings (never having spoke up before even though she were uncomfortable), then this is not living the gospel. If the bible tells us to be kind and apologize one to another, it's for everybody, not just between Jews or between christians. God sees us all as His children. Of course, there are those with a diff. relationship developed between us and Him. But He loves us all the same.

Yes, you are

<am I supposed to apologize> was a rhetorical question
...so no....I don't agree
I don't apologize for loving Jesus....
that's actually considered a sin....

If you show anger over her type of spirituality, which seemed to be very respectful of your feelings (never having spoke up before even though she were uncomfortable), then this is not living the gospel.

except.........there was never any anger so I'm confused
at this response..

then this is not living the gospel

but I will take that under consideration

She doesn't want to hear the gospel thrown down her throat all the time.

but .....Natichotices.... that isn't what happened..
re-read the OP? then you'd understand a little better

With all due respect
I think you might be confusing this situation

Anna saysI AFFIRM IT'S OKAY THAT DO NOT NEED OR HAVE TO HAVE A GOD ...MY SPIRITUALITY IS MYSELF

Oh!" I said...."What you are really asking is ...DO I ACCEPT ...you?
the answer is yes...I love you!..you are my friend...I DO accept you
but I MUST tell you....my heart wishes you knew God....and HIS love

with what happened to you

I was so tired of all the others who practically spit in my face. And I'm not at all sure they meant well. I think there is a fine line between people who are genuinely concerned for a soul and those who don't give a flying blip but wish to condemn them to hell from their own curse (for not accepting their pitiful attempt at shoving the gospel)

I am sorry that happened....that sounds awful
glad you worked it out
maybe some forgiveness..in that mix..at some point

 

[kayte]

Remember, the best witness is how one lives, not how one talks about it.

Christians do both!

 

[trenise]

Kayte, I really like how that conversation went between you and your friend. It seemed like she really wanted to know whether or not she would still be accepted and loved. You showed her you could still care about her even if you did not have the same value system. To me, that was demonstrating the love of Christ. I've had friends who are agnostic as well and that never stopped me from discussing what I wanted to say about God - and they say what they want to about whatever.

 

[kayte]

You handled that well sis. A lot of times we as believers find it hard to accept unbelievers once they make a declaration of compelte disbelief. It is a careful road to tread (i.e. making sure that your faith remains strong while engaging with them and NOT being offended by their unbelief).

Keep Praying for her that she will see the light of God in you and glorify our father in heaven.

It is a careful road to tread (i.e. making sure that your faith remains strong while engaging with them and NOT being offended by their unbelief

truly

Keep Praying for her that she will see the light of God in you and glorify our father in heaven

thank you....prayers went right
for both of us...

 

[Prudent1]

Kayte,
I agree w/ Coily here. You handled that well. I also believe you demonstrated and will have more opportunities to demonstrate through your actions, Jesus. I don't see where an apology was due. We are to deal with everyone with real love. We don't hate those who are misguided but as you know it is ok to hate their wrong deeds. i work with and have had some very interesting conversations with ppl from all walks of life. I am proudly who I am. They know that. At lunchtime in a cafeteria of no less than 1000 ppl, I bow my head, fold my hands, and openly bless my food. My point is some of my friends and family are agnostic, atheist, openly living alternative lifestyles, etc but they know I love them and they know they can talk to me. Ask me questions others may find extremely offensive w/o me losing my cool or feeling the need to belittle them. We know how to agree to disagree. It is walking in love. It is living peaceably with all men. It took time. I do that when approached by evangelists from other faiths too. It is not always easy. Sometimes a person says something and you want to say, hello is anyone home? Does that make any logical sense to you? I guess I heard a minister say it best about this passage from Proverbs below. Those coals of fire are God's love. It melts the coldest of hearts/ souls. Ironically, sometimes secretly, when they are in trouble, they find there way to me so that I can pray to my God on their behalf or give them a bit of advice to rectify the current situation. Keep being the wonderful friend you are. Keep being the undeniable example you are. God said one plants, one waters, and he gives the increase. You never know which function he is performing through you at the time. He does the drawing unto, we just need to be in a usable state. Tis all.
Prov. 25:22
22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the LORD will reward you.

 

[kayte]

Kayte,
I agree w/ Coily here. You handled that well. I also believe you demonstrated and will have more opportunities to demonstrate through your actions, Jesus. I don't see where an apology was due. We are to deal with everyone with real love. We don't hate those who are misguided but as you know it is ok to hate their wrong deeds. i work with and have had some very interesting conversations with ppl from all walks of life. I am proudly who I am. They know that. At lunchtime in a cafeteria of no less than 1000 ppl, I bow my head, fold my hands, and openly bless my food. My point is some of my friends and family are agnostic, atheist, openly living alternative lifestyles, etc but they know I love them and they know they can talk to me. Ask me questions others may find extremely offensive w/o me losing my cool or feeling the need to belittle them. We know how to agree to disagree. It is walking in love. It is living peaceably with all men. It took time. I do that when approached by evangelists from other faiths too. It is not always easy. Sometimes a person says something and you want to say, hello is anyone home? Does that make any logical sense to you? I guess I heard a minister say it best about this passage from Proverbs below. Those coals of fire are God's love. It melts the coldest of hearts/ souls. Ironically, sometimes secretly, when they are in trouble, they find there way to me so that I can pray to my God on their behalf or give them a bit of advice to rectify the current situation. Keep being the wonderful friend you are. Keep being the undeniable example you are. God said one plants, one waters, and he gives the increase. You never know which function he is performing through you at the time. He does the drawing unto, we just need to be in a usable state. Tis all. Prov. 25:22
22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head,
and the LORD will reward you.

This is so beautiful...I almost cried.....
Thank you so much....

Tis all

Tis Everything

 

[Guitarhero]

<am I supposed to apologize> was a rhetorical question
...so no....I don't agree
I don't apologize for loving Jesus....
that's actually considered a sin....






except.........there was never any anger so I'm confused
at this response..





but I will take that under consideration



but .....Natichotices.... that isn't what happened..
re-read the OP? then you'd understand a little better

With all due respect
I think you might be confusing this situation


with what happened to you



I am sorry that happened....that sounds awful
glad you worked it out
maybe some forgiveness..in that mix..at some point

No, I'm not confusing what happened to me but it might be how you set up the post to give the idea that you were seriously miffed??? I was attempting to help as you posted your ordeal. I'm not insensitive to it, I just comprehend her side of things very well. You wish to always give glory to God but your friend and God are off-limits in a conversation. If it's a true friendship, omit talk of God. That's very easy to comprehend. It offends her. That doesn't have anything to do with your not walking with Him, though. And it doesn't mean she doesn't see a witness of Him in your life. Respect should be mutual is what my response meant, even if your philosophical and theological sides swing on different ends.


""As a Christian,I cannot help acknoweldging God's hand in my business
and I don't how to talk for very long with out calling on His name
I am no evangelist and I have a temper..and ego and am very human in this way but my love of God...even when angry and frustrated with Him
is too real..... to not talk about Him "
I am so uncomfortable with this declaration! Not because she is agnostic...bu it felt like an answer to my talking about God! (imagine how she feels hearing you go on and on about something she doesn't believe in?)
I sat there miserably not even looking at her...of course she noticed (I apologize, I assumed you meant you showed her your anger)

Am I supposed to apologize for ...or suppress loving God Jesus Christ
so that somehow people dont feel the need to counter or make anti Christ rebuttals.....
Susie left soon left...and Anna and I were alone and she said I have to ask you...did I offend you.....

Me... Well no but I'm puzzled I guess...I mean...I can't NOT talk about God"


I just understood that she was basically tired of all the talk about God. And that's where one has to know what to do with a friendship - keep it and grow together or leave it and grow individually. Christianity is not about forcing anything on anybody. Shrugs. I do hope that things work out well however they are meant to.

 

[kayte]

Kayte, I really like how that conversation went between you and your friend. It seemed like she really wanted to know whether or not she would still be accepted and loved. You showed her you could still care about her even if you did not have the same value system. To me, that was demonstrating the love of Christ. I've had friends who are agnostic as well and that never stopped me from discussing what I wanted to say about God - and they say what they want to about whatever.[/QUOTE]

ahhh thanks....
I appreciate that this is not isolated with me...
good for you,Trenise

 

[joy2day]

Kayte,

You have no idea how your example with your friend has inspired me. As one who would frequently get frustrated when non-believers (and mis-guided believers for that matter) come to test my faith or debate me (even though that is not what your friend did in this instance), the way that you maintained your stance is really beautiful, and a testimony of God's love for us, and Christ working through you.

We all know (or should know) John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son," and in a world system devised by satan to cause Christians to appear unloving and unaccepting of everyone and everything non-Christian, your example really speaks to my heart to "step up my game." So I thank you Sis, sincerely, from the bottom of my heart.

I personally think that your love and acceptance of your friend is a moment that she will never forget. She will reflect back on this day in the future, and remember how she saw "the same Christ who she claims she does not believe in," in you.

 

[Renewed1]

No, I'm not confusing what happened to me but it might be how you set up the post to give the idea that you were seriously miffed??? I was attempting to help as you posted your ordeal. I'm not insensitive to it, I just comprehend her side of things very well. You wish to always give glory to God but your friend and God are off-limits in a conversation. If it's a true friendship, omit talk of God. That's very easy to comprehend. It offends her. That doesn't have anything to do with your not walking with Him, though. And it doesn't mean she doesn't see a witness of Him in your life. Respect should be mutual is what my response meant, even if your philosophical and theological sides swing on different ends.

I disagree with the bolded. I'm not sure of your definition of friendship. But one of the key things of friendship is ACCEPTANCE. Kayte should not compromise her beliefs or her character to keep a friend. Like her friend shouldn't compromise her beliefs or her character to keep Kayte. They need to come to an agreement - - which they did - - on how to handle the different beliefs.

I have/had friends of many different religious beliefs (or non-beliefs), and I'm a practicing Christrian. I continued to speak/talk about God and I let it be known to my friends that is not changing. They continued to speak about their beliefs as well; although we didn't agree - - we always found common ground; because we ACCEPTED each other. We didn't argue and I didn't try to "convert" them nor did they "convert" me.

But the funny thing is -- they would ask me to say a prayer on their behalf.

Kayte, you did the right thing. God is love, peace, acceptance and understanding. The only thing I would suggest --if it didn't happened already-- is to agree to disagree. And not belittle anyone's beliefs. But I'm sure you already handled that.

 

[Guitarhero]

I disagree with the bolded. I'm not sure of your definition of friendship. But one of the key things of friendship is ACCEPTANCE. Kayte should not compromise her beliefs or her character to keep a friend. Like her friend shouldn't compromise her beliefs or her character to keep Kayte. They need to come to an agreement - - which they did - - on how to handle the different beliefs.

I have/had friends of many different religious beliefs (or non-beliefs), and I'm a practicing Christrian. I continued to speak/talk about God and I let it be known to my friends that is not changing. They continued to speak about their beliefs as well; although we didn't agree - - we always found common ground; because we ACCEPTED each other. We didn't argue and I didn't try to "convert" them nor did they "convert" me.

But the funny thing is -- they would ask me to say a prayer on their behalf.

Kayte, you did the right thing. God is love, peace, acceptance and understanding. The only thing I would suggest --if it didn't happened already-- is to agree to disagree. And not belittle anyone's beliefs. But I'm sure you already handled that.

Oh nooooo, I'm not saying she shouldn't also respect her. That's why I said I'm very sure they could come to a gracious mediation of sorts. I guess I misunderstood by the delivery that she didn't wish to hear of her constantly talking about God. I'll leave it at that because I don't want this to become some point of contention. I back away gracefully and bow out. But I hope people comprehend how I saw that consistently "witnessing" by word is sometimes an offense to another, even when not quite seen that way by the one who means well and is just reaffirming their faith. Accepting the other doesn't mean listening to a theological side if not desired...from either.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

But I hope people comprehend how I saw that consistently "witnessing" by word is sometimes an offense to another,

This is true. And sometimes it can come off as insincere.

 

[nathansgirl1908]

I think there is a fine line between people who are genuinely concerned for a soul and those who don't give a flying blip but wish to condemn them to hell from their own curse (for not accepting their pitiful attempt at shoving the gospel).

Well said.

 

[Guitarhero]

This is true. And sometimes it can come off as insincere.

Yes, and with an agenda. I'm sure this is not actually the case with Kayte. I oftentimes bring into a discussion my experiences to make a point. Some people have a problem with that but I find that if I have a question and someone gives me advice but they have no related experience, then the advice isn't worth much. I apologize for having come into this thread beforehand. I don't want folks to get upset.

Thanks for comprehending my post.

 

[kayte]

As one who would frequently get frustrated when non-believers (and mis-guided believers for that matter) come to test my faith or debate me

me too!
I unfortunately lost my temper with a former friend who sent me the a cat version of the Bible......I feel bad but I AM still angry about that and asked in a nice way him to not email me anymore....I wish I could have handled that differently...but...*shrug*

 

[kayte]

No, I'm not confusing what happened to me but it might be how you set up the post to give the idea that you were seriously miffed???

Not miffed....but you did pick up on my frustration that I feel a little challenged by my non Christian friends ......this is the THIRD friend this year...that felt the need to assert their agnostic selves ....to me erplexed

I was attempting to help as you posted your ordeal. I'm not insensitive to it, I just comprehend her side of things very well. You wish to always give glory to God but your friend and God are off-limits in a conversation. If it's a true friendship, omit talk of God. That's very easy to comprehend. It offends her. That doesn't have anything to do with your not walking with Him, though. And it doesn't mean she doesn't see a witness of Him in your life. Respect should be mutual is what my response meant, even if your philosophical and theological sides swing on different ends.

yes! thank you
I do appreciate your viewpoint even if I do not agree with all of it

If it's a true friendship, omit talk of God.

Ah...then it is NOT a TRUE friendship
@bolded..never

I'm dating a Christian scientist...lo... not a Christian scientist the religion
but a scientist who is Christian ..or Catholic actually....
he said to me once when I voiced fear of feeling suffocated that ..this when one is not allowed to be who they are..... but are supppresing themselves to suit someone else....that's how you can feel suffocated

I don't have friends like that...I don't participate in relationships like that


(I apologize, I assumed you meant you showed her your anger)

no prob...
yeah...more like I was..uncomfortable

I just understood that she was basically tired of all the talk about God. And that's where one has to know what to do with a friendship - keep it and grow together or leave it and grow individually. Christianity is not about forcing anything on anybody. Shrugs. I do hope that things work out well however they are meant to.

We tend to be pretty honest...it's why she stated the agnostic thing
in general...most of my relationhips are fairly candid... so ultimately..
if she felt that way...she def would have spoken right up...and said
hey... but she did not say that...... because I am not doing that

I do hope that things work out well however they are meant to.

thanks...we're cool,though
she's one of my dearest friends....
at my birthday...th first one she was invited ...years ago she met
my other friends for the first time and they all got on great and she was like ..oh.. Let's do such and such next year.....for K...for her birthday ...it was so sweet..she was
nodding her head...as if she was already planning this...

one year I won an award...and scurred to go the awards party alone
she was like I'M COMING WITH YOU..I did'nt even ask her~
.

 

[kayte]

I disagree with the bolded. I'm not sure of your definition of friendship. But one of the key things of friendship is ACCEPTANCE. Kayte should not compromise her beliefs or her character to keep a friend. Like her friend shouldn't compromise her beliefs or her character to keep Kayte. They need to come to an agreement - - which they did - - on how to handle the different beliefs.

I have/had friends of many different religious beliefs (or non-beliefs), and I'm a practicing Christrian. I continued to speak/talk about God and I let it be known to my friends that is not changing. They continued to speak about their beliefs as well; although we didn't agree - - we always found common ground; because we ACCEPTED each other. We didn't argue and I didn't try to "convert" them nor did they "convert" me.

But the funny thing is -- they would ask me to say a prayer on their behalf.

Kayte, you did the right thing. God is love, peace, acceptance and understanding. The only thing I would suggest --if it didn't happened already-- is to agree to disagree. And not belittle anyone's beliefs. But I'm sure you already handled that.

That's what I felt...that the Holy Spirit was right there
and you are so RIGHT My non Christians will ask me to pray for them~~~

EXACTLY

 

[Renewed1]

Oh nooooo, I'm not saying she shouldn't also respect her. That's why I said I'm very sure they could come to a gracious mediation of sorts. I guess I misunderstood by the delivery that she didn't wish to hear of her constantly talking about God. I'll leave it at that because I don't want this to become some point of contention. I back away gracefully and bow out. But I hope people comprehend how I saw that consistently "witnessing" by word is sometimes an offense to another, even when not quite seen that way by the one who means well and is just reaffirming their faith. Accepting the other doesn't mean listening to a theological side if not desired...from either.

Oh I'm sorry....gotcha!