I need help/clarity with a statement that was made....

[PinkPebbles]

Today was my first day at new members orientation class. The facilitator made a statement that left me unsettled and a little confused.

She said everyone is born with the Holy Spirit. I was like huh.... So I rasied my hand and said I thought a person only receives the Holy Spirit when they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The facilitator said no, everyone has the Holy Spirit. It's just dead in nonbelievers until they confess Jesus Christ. I said I've never heard that theology before.

I'd like to have a meeting with my Pastor about this statement. I'm just not feelin' it....

No one in the class said anything. So I felt as though they were all in agreement.

Have any of you been taught that everyone has the Holy Spirit? Although they haven't confessed and received Jesus Christ into their life.

 

[Shimmie]

Today was my first day at new members orientation class. The facilitator made a statement that left me unsettled and a little confused.

She said everyone is born with the Holy Spirit. I was like huh.... So I rasied my hand and said I thought a person only receives the Holy Spirit when they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The facilitator said no, everyone has the Holy Spirit. It's just dead in nonbelievers until they confess Jesus Christ. I said I've never heard that theology before.

I'd like to have a meeting with my Pastor about this statement. I'm just not feelin' it....

No one in the class said anything. So I felt as though they were all in agreement.

Have any of you been taught that everyone has the Holy Spirit? Although they haven't confessed and received Jesus Christ into their life.

She is not correct.

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 1:12-14

 

[PinkPebbles]

She is not correct.

That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 1:12-14

Shimmie-

Thank you so much!

The facilitator's statement was so heavy on my heart that I could not rest. It's imperative that I speak with the Pastor because I need to know if this is what their church is teaching. I really hope not and pray that the facilitator is addressed and corrected.

 

[alexstin]

That's the first scripture I thought of, Shimmie.

 

[inthepink]

Definitely talk to your pastor. Anyone teaching at the church, should have teaching lined up with the church.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie-

Thank you so much!

The facilitator's statement was so heavy on my heart that I could not rest. It's imperative that I speak with the Pastor because I need to know if this is what their church is teaching. I really hope not and pray that the facilitator is addressed and corrected.

That's the first scripture I thought of, Shimmie.

Definitely talk to your pastor. Anyone teaching at the church, should have teaching lined up with the church.

She may have gone home and 'thought' about what she said. It's good that you 'caught' on to this. Too many times we hear something and know it's not quite right and don't address it. I agree with you and everyone here to ask your Pastor about this. Especially since most new members are 'Babes' in the Lord.

Perhaps a note to him, thanking him for the membership class, that you are blessed to be a part of the new Church and may you share a concern or ask, "May I ask a question concerning something that was shared in the new members class?"

Pastor Alexstin and Hairlove, how would the two of you approach the Pastor? Is a note appropriate? Or going to him in person?

 

[alexstin]

She may have gone home and 'thought' about what she said. It's good that you 'caught' on to this. Too many times we hear something and know it's not quite right and don't address it. I agree with you and everyone here to ask your Pastor about this. Especially since most new members are 'Babes' in the Lord.

Perhaps a note to him, thanking him for the membership class, that you are blessed to be a part of the new Church and may you share a concern or ask, "May I ask a question concerning something that was shared in the new members class?"

Pastor Alexstin and Hairlove, how would the two of you approach the Pastor? Is a note appropriate? Or going to him in person?

I see this as a great opportunity to sit down with the pastor and really see what they believe.

 

[Shimmie]

I see this as a great opportunity to sit down with the pastor and really see what they believe.

I agree. How should she initially approach him? In you and your husband's position as Pastors, how would you advise anyone to approach for a meeting?

The reason I ask is because a lot of Churches have become so large and or busy that for a member to sit with a Pastor one on one is becoming more rare these days.

 

[inthepink]

You know, I really have no idea. I only suggested she do what she thought she should do which was to approach the pastor! I was going under the assumption that maybe it's a small church and she has a semi-relationship with the pastor.

If it were me, on the other hand, and I usually attend larger churches, I would not go to the pastor but to maybe the secondary teacher of the class or even consult another member.

 

[PinkPebbles]

I see this as a great opportunity to sit down with the pastor and really see what they believe.

This was my initial approach. The church is large but I'm going to ask my Deacon to arrange for me to speak with the Pastor. I'm not going to take no for an answer because I really need to know what they believe.

Again, thank you all so much! I feel so much better.

 

[alexstin]

This was my initial approach. The church is large but I'm going to ask my Deacon to arrange for me to speak with the Pastor. I'm not going to take no for an answer because I really need to know what they believe.

Again, thank you all so much! I feel so much better.

Sounds good. You are right not to take no for an answer. I strongly believe that anyone seeking a new church needs to speak with the pastor or a senior guy that handles concerns such as this.

At our old church, Dh was one of 9 pastors on staff. There was the senior pastor and his wife, 2 senior team pastors and then the rest were team pastors. The senior team pastors(one in particular, met with many ppl in place of the Senior pastor). I would think there would be a similar set up in any large church.

 

[chicacanella]

Today was my first day at new members orientation class. The facilitator made a statement that left me unsettled and a little confused.

She said everyone is born with the Holy Spirit. I was like huh.... So I rasied my hand and said I thought a person only receives the Holy Spirit when they confess Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The facilitator said no, everyone has the Holy Spirit. It's just dead in nonbelievers until they confess Jesus Christ. I said I've never heard that theology before.

I'd like to have a meeting with my Pastor about this statement. I'm just not feelin' it....

No one in the class said anything. So I felt as though they were all in agreement.

Have any of you been taught that everyone has the Holy Spirit? Although they haven't confessed and received Jesus Christ into their life.

Umm, that's not true but you guys already are on it!

 

[Laela]

PinkPebbles,

That's odd... maybe she's meaning that we all are born of God, since the Holy Sprit is part of the Trinity?? Still, that's misleading. I go to a large church, too and that was never taught. It's good that you're questioning this! Yes, I agree with you to take this up with your pastor/deacon so you are straight on what this church truly believes.

 

[kandake]

This is a prime example of why we should know GOD (and HIS WORD) for ourselves.

I would take that scripture and any others and discuss it with her. Maybe she was misinformed. I would do it before or after class. Let her know how you felt about her statement and that you went home and did some research and found some scriptures that are misaligned with what she stated.

See what happens from there before you go the pastor.

 

[PinkPebbles]

This is a prime example of why we should know GOD (and HIS WORD) for ourselves.

I would take that scripture and any others and discuss it with her. Maybe she was misinformed. I would do it before or after class. Let her know how you felt about her statement and that you went home and did some research and found some scriptures that are misaligned with what she stated.

See what happens from there before you go the pastor.

So true!

Well, I called my Deacon to discuss the issue. My Deacon was very pleasant but informed me that he believes too that everyone is born with the Holy Spirit . I told my Deacon that I disagree. Only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit. According to John 14 and 16, Jesus tells his disciples that He will send the Holy Spirit. Jesus goes further into saying how it is important for Him to depart so that the Holy Spirit can dwell in us.
John 14:15-26
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

My Deacon said I see what you mean and that he will contact the Pastor to get the answer. I said I know the answer. It's clearly outlined in the bible. What I'm trying to find out is what do you all believe. If you believe that everyone is born with the Holy Spirit then I'm in the wrong church. The Deacon said I understand and will speak with the Pastor to make sure he is interpreting correctly what they've been taught. I'm like ok.... In my mind I'm saying this is basic Christian Fundamentals and if you don't know the answer for yourself then something is surly wrong.

This is a large prominent church. It goes to show that we are living in the age where we have to know and study the word for ourselves. Leaders are adding to the word, taking things out to fit their own personal agenda.

 

[Laela]

WOW! At this point, would you be expecting a different answer from the pastor??

So true!

Well, I called my Deacon to discuss the issue. My Deacon was very pleasant but informed me that he believes too that everyone is born with the Holy Spirit . I told my Deacon that I disagree. Only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior are promised the gift of the Holy Spirit. According to John 14 and 16, Jesus tells his disciples that He will send the Holy Spirit. Jesus goes further into saying how it is important for Him to depart so that the Holy Spirit can dwell in us.

My Deacon said I see what you mean and that he will contact the Pastor to get the answer. I said I know the answer. It's clearly outlined in the bible. What I'm trying to find out is what do you all believe. If you believe that everyone is born with the Holy Spirit then I'm in the wrong church. The Deacon said I understand and will speak with the Pastor to make sure he is interpreting correctly what they've been taught. I'm like ok.... In my mind I'm saying this is basic Christian Fundamentals and if you don't know the answer for yourself then something is surly wrong.

This is a large prominent church. It goes to show that we are living in the age where we have to know and study the word for ourselves. Leaders are adding to the word, taking things out to fit their own personal agenda.

 

[kandake]

^^^^

I guess they are getting the wrong info. from the shepard of the house.

At any rate. Everything is born after its own kind. Flesh can only bear flesh and the spirit bear the spirit. Because we are born of flesh we must be born again to receive the holy spirit.

 

[Laela]

My sentiments exactly....

^^^^

I guess they are getting the wrong info. from the shepard of the house.

 

[PinkPebbles]

WOW! At this point, would you be expecting a different answer from the pastor??[/quote]

No.... Apparently, the pastor is teaching this theology. I've already made up in mind that I won't be going back. But I could not walk away without saying anything.

 

[Laela]

I had to go back and think about this for a minute...because I believe this is to be very thin line. If it were me, I'd have a serious talk with the pastor about this to get it straight for sure.

The Bible does say God gave us [Mankind] the Holy Spirit as a comforter after Jesus resurrected and returned to heaven. That was the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit's presence became evident on earth. But because God gave us this gift, doesn't mean we automatically have the Holy Spirit. We have to first RECEIVE the Holy Spirit -- the infilling, when the Holy Ghost takes dwelling in our bodies or temple. If Satan or any of his spirits were dwelling there, they'll flee for both cannot occupy our bodies. That's why it's good to be clear who we serve, God or Satan, for no man can serve two masters.

What's also troubling me is maybe the church members are referring to babies and young children and the age of accountability (when a child knows right from wrong)? When we are born, we are spiritually alive, according to John 1:9. Jesus enlightens everyone coming into the world. Maybe that's what they're referring to? Still, we are born in sin (Psalms 51) which gives every child born of the world the propensity to sin. It is when they get saved and accept Jesus they receive the Holy Spirit and are reconciled back to God.

Isaiah 7:16 points out that a child arrives at age when he/she is known to refuse evil and choose the good. This also could be what they're referring to; it's not clear that's what they're teaching.


I'm a bit troubled, there could be some misunderstanding.

No.... Apparently, the pastor is teaching this theology. I've already made up in mind that I won't be going back. But I could not walk away without saying anything.

 

[PinkPebbles]

I had to go back and think about this for a minute...because I believe this is to be very thin line. If it were me, I'd have a serious talk with the pastor about this to get it straight for sure.

The Bible does say God gave us [Mankind] the Holy Spirit as a comforter after Jesus resurrected and returned to heaven. That was the Day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit's presence became evident on earth. But because God gave us this gift, doesn't mean we automatically have the Holy Spirit. We have to first RECEIVE the Holy Spirit -- the infilling, when the Holy Ghost takes dwelling in our bodies or temple. If Satan or any of his spirits were dwelling there, they'll flee for both cannot occupy our bodies. That's why it's good to be clear who we serve, God or Satan, for no man can serve two masters.

What's also troubling me is maybe the church members are referring to babies and young children and the age of accountability (when a child knows right from wrong)? When we are born, we are spiritually alive, according to John 1:9. Jesus enlightens everyone coming into the world. Maybe that's what they're referring to? Still, we are born in sin (Psalms 51) which gives every child born of the world the propensity to sin. It is when they get saved and accept Jesus they receive the Holy Spirit and are reconciled back to God.

Isaiah 7:16 points out that a child arrives at age when he/she is known to refuse evil and choose the good. This also could be what they're referring to; it's not clear that's what they're teaching.


I'm a bit troubled, there could be some misunderstanding.

I'm open to speak with the Pastor as I informed my Deacon. The faciliator emailed me and gave me scriptures to back up her statement . This lets me know that she doesn't understand the Holy Spirit.

Copied and Paste....
In Genesis 1:26 – Then God said, “Let us (Us includes God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) make man in our image...
In Genesis 1:27 – So God (Again, God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) created man in his own image,
In Genesis 2:7 – the Lord God (the deity – God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. The word breathe is the Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew language word #5301. means "to puff." In other words God (the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) performed - mouth-to-mouth resuscitation depositing his own spirit, divine nature, and character into man.

 

[Laela]

ooooooooKAY.. now I see what's going on. Wow. They're stuck in the beginning.. lol JK

This is true that when Adam was created by God, he was born of the Trinity..they were made in his image. But the facilitator is missing the bridge to the gap between the what happened in the Garden of Eden and sin -- and that is the fall of Man.

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of Life they came into the knowledge of their nakedness. It is then (Genesis 3) that God had them exiled from the Garden, because God cannot dwell in sin nor sin in God. God removed his presence from Adam.

God made in his image, when he created Adam, yes. But he did it this way once. We (mankind) are the descendants of Adam, this image of God. But everyone else born after Adam and Eve was born of flesh....into sin. Why are they missing all this???

I'm open to speak with the Pastor as I informed my Deacon. The faciliator emailed me and gave me scriptures to back up her statement . This lets me know that she doesn't understand the Holy Spirit.

Copied and Paste....
In Genesis 1:26 – Then God said, “Let us (Us includes God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) make man in our image...
In Genesis 1:27 – So God (Again, God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) created man in his own image,
In Genesis 2:7 – the Lord God (the deity – God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit) formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul. The word breathe is the Strong's Concordance of the Hebrew language word #5301. means "to puff." In other words God (the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit) performed - mouth-to-mouth resuscitation depositing his own spirit, divine nature, and character into man.

 

[TrustMeLove]

Praise the Lord for watching over you his precious child. The Lord BLOCKED IT!

Imagine all the confused people in that church? All the twisted theology they are teaching. What a shame. I wonder what else they have wrong?

You just missed a semi-truck. PTL!

 

[Laela]

LOL @ semi-truck!

PTL indeed! I don't know about that church....

Praise the Lord for watching over you his precious child. The Lord BLOCKED IT!

Imagine all the confused people in that church? All the twisted theology they are teaching. What a shame. I wonder what else they have wrong?

You just missed a semi-truck. PTL!

 

[PinkPebbles]

ooooooooKAY.. now I see what's going on. Wow. They're stuck in the beginning.. lol JK

This is true that when Adam was created by God, he was born of the Trinity..they were made in his image. But the facilitator is missing the bridge to the gap between the what happened in the Garden of Eden and sin -- and that is the fall of Man.

When Adam and Eve ate of the tree of Life they came into the knowledge of their nakedness. It is then (Genesis 3) that God had them exiled from the Garden, because God cannot dwell in sin nor sin in God. God removed his presence from Adam.

God made in his image, when he created Adam, yes. But he did it this way once. We (mankind) are the descendants of Adam, this image of God. But everyone else born after Adam and Eve was born of flesh....into sin. Why are they missing all this???

EXACTLY!!! I pointed out the fall of Man as well. It really makes me wonder what are they up too...

 

[BeautifulFlower]

The Holy Spirit can never be died.

 

[PinkPebbles]

Praise the Lord for watching over you his precious child. The Lord BLOCKED IT!

Imagine all the confused people in that church? All the twisted theology they are teaching. What a shame. I wonder what else they have wrong?

You just missed a semi-truck. PTL!

YES, YES, YES!!!!!! I thanked God for giving me foundation to be able to recognize untruth. I really thought this was the church for me.... But I thank God for showing me otherwise.

This past Sunday I went to my friend's church. I actually met her on this forum! So I'm glad that I have somewhere to go in the meantime to hear sound doctrine.

 

[PinkPebbles]

One of the Ministers from the church who was monitoring the class contacted me by email today. She told me that the church does not believe that man is born with the Holy Spirit and would like to speak with me. She wanted to wait until after class to discuss this with the facilitator first and then address the class at our next meeting (orientation).

I replied back and said thank you for the clarification. However, I wished you would have spoken up in class to expose this untruth with scripture. How do you know that everyone was going to come back the following week? Also, I spoke with the Deacon and he believes that man is born with the Holy Spirit as well. Therefore, this led me to believe that at some point the Pastor was teaching this theology.

Well, I'm going to speak with the minister this evening. But I already made up in my mind that I no longer want to be a member there . Too much confusion....

Side note: I guess the Minister did not speak up in class because she did not want to embarrass the facilitator. But when it comes to spreading God words and there is some untruth one has to speak up.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

One of the Ministers from the church who was monitoring the class contacted me by email today. She told me that the church does not believe that man is born with the Holy Spirit and would like to speak with me. She wanted to wait until after class to discuss this with the facilitator first and then address the class at our next meeting (orientation).

I replied back and said thank you for the clarification. However, I wished you would have spoken up in class to expose this untruth with scripture. How do you know that everyone was going to come back the following week? Also, I spoke with the Deacon and he believes that man is born with the Holy Spirit as well. Therefore, this led me to believe that at some point the Pastor was teaching this theology.

Well, I'm going to speak with the minister this evening. But I already made up in my mind that I no longer want to be a member there . Too much confusion....

Side note: I guess the Minister did not speak up in class because she did not want to embarrass the facilitator. But when it comes to spreading God words and there is some untruth one has to speak up.

Sis, do the right thing and speak with the pastor. I know you will be speaking with the minister tonight, but ask her for the pastor to be there as well. He is the shepherd of the flock and need to be there to speak to you. (He needs to leave the 99 for the 1).

My prayers are with you and that you do this without anger, bitterness or resentment. It's important not to give the devil an opportunity....

If you have made up your mind to leave, then do it...but, do it with a clean heart and clean hands, you know what I mean?

Blessings to you, always.

 

[PinkPebbles]

Sis, do the right thing and speak with the pastor. I know you will be speaking with the minister tonight, but ask her for the pastor to be there as well. He is the shepherd of the flock and need to be there to speak to you. (He needs to leave the 99 for the 1).

My prayers are with you and that you do this without anger, bitterness or resentment. It's important not to give the devil an opportunity....

If you have made up your mind to leave, then do it...but, do it with a clean heart and clean hands, you know what I mean?

Blessings to you, always.

Thank you and I agree.