Vintagecoilylocks said:
The practise of Priest in the western church not marrying was done long ago for the sake of them and the flock. They had problems with good order with it. It was decided to go with pauls teachings on married and unmarried and it has worked for them. The faithful support it and no man is forced into the preist hood. The eastern Church did not encounter the same difficulties in history and have retained a married priesthood. However he must be the husband of one wife prior to entering the priesthood. So must the deacons.
Bishops are widowers or unmarried. The church is responsible for the care of all. As Paul says the duty of a husband and father are great. That is why he must have been married and show an orderly life and family before he can go to the preisthood or remain unmarried. Many of our priest are "tent maker" preist. They hold full time jobs. The duty of a priest to his flock and family and job is a delicate balance and one not every one could handle. 1cor7:32-35. The faithful support these things for the care of the men aswell as the congregation.
The practice of not marrying was instituted by man. Yes, Paul taught that its better to be single to serve the Lord, but not required. Priscilla and Aquila headed up a church together (1 Cor 16:19) and in the bible when it gives the breakdown of bishop and deacons, their families and household and how they are managed are critical criteria for such an office. No man is forced to be a priest, but if a man was called by God to marry and he was already a priest, would he be forced to leave his post? The term priest is more or less utilized when talking about the Jewish temple and at least some of them married in order to continue a lineage of priests in the Levite tribe.
Vintagecoilylocks said:
The confession to the whole church is to the Body of Christ. Picking and choosing who you would confess to sounds seemly don't you think. But do to size of congregations and time the churches approved the confessions to be said to the priest locally for the Bishops could not be at all congregations at all times. But he represents the church in that capacity. This is a tradition from the early church whicc supports the scriture that confession is by mouth. Not thoughts or only in your heart. It will not change your salvation but in the Catholic church you shall not commune until confession. John stated all could not be put in one book Jn21:25 Tradition must align with the teachings. It is of the teachings. Then the written scripture aligned with those traditions and teachings. I doubt the apostles would have written one thing while doing another. The church gives us the fullness of Christ through the teachings and traditions of the first apostles who were intimate with Christ. 1Jn1:4 .
Now, did the scripture say to one another or to everybody (everyone who goes to church is not necessarily a member of the Body of Christ). Its not a case of picking or choosing. If u want to confess to the priest, hey I got no qualms with it but where in the scripture do you find people confessing to Peter, Paul, etc and people being excluding from fellowship from not physically confessing to the pastor? Aren't we all the church, not just the pastor?
Vintagecoilylocks said:
When the church "recognizes" a saint they are not appointing them to being a saint over others. If you wanted to have a role model set before your child for your values or the like you would most likey make sure the person truelly embodied the truths and behavior you consider to be in line with what you believe. Its like giving the faithful a "good housekeeping seal" on some one. Many have called them selves christians but do not hold true to the faith and decieve, teach false doctrine and started heresies. Paul warned of that happening even in the early church. At times these people led others away with their false teachings. Christ said many will call me Lord but he will say depart from me for I never knew you. Also many a saints have died unknown to others for the Gory ogf God. The naming a fellow saint that has fought the good fight and won isinspirational. We do not worship them nor mary. The hail mary is the same greeting the angel gave her at the announciation. Can we not say the same the angels say. Pual said to honor the saints. Is it not true that the saints of the old testesmant were pointed out to the faithfu. Did not Christ name these rightgeous men and why they were considered so. Did not Christ honour and set John the Babtist high in the eyes of man? Mt.11:11 Others were named in the scriptures such as in Lu 1:5-6. The Bible is not void of naming those who have walk in the way of God in their life. .
Give honor to where honor is due (Rom 13:7). I get that, but giving honor and praying to them (or asking someone who is no longer alive to pray for you) are two different things. When Paul said to honor the saints, he was stating all those who are members of the body of Christ, that have fought and are fighting the good fight of faith to honor them. We are also to honor those who have rule over us such as government officials, as well as all men (1 Pet 2:17). That's right Jesus did honor John the Baptist by saying there is none greater born of woman, but did he pray to him or ask him to pray for him? Since John the Baptist is the greatest born of women, why is Elizabeth not elevated like Mary is in the Catholic Church?
Vintagecoilylocks said:
If a particular congregation or bishopry has started to deviate as we saw churches in the bible do it is the unchanging doctrine of the church and Christ that will either bring them back or bring attention to the rest of the faithful and try to bring them back. I am not aware of a Eastern church which knowingly is deviating from the known beliefs of the whole church and has not been approach by the rest of the body of christ. I think there are churches that call themselves catholic that are not in communion with the western church and have gone off on their own direction. The church can no longer recognize them only plead they return to correct teachings as Paul taught. As in the early century of the church so called christians sprang up with their versions of Christ and the scriptures. The new testament tells us of these and cautions us to beware of the false doctrine.
The essentials do not change. Salvation, santification, confession and forgiveness, the nature of God and Our Lord, grace, communion, babtism.
Protestant differ on more than the methods of babtism but the understanding of it also, salvation doctrines sharply conflict such as calvinism, armeniaism, definate atonment, pelggiusm and a host of others. These greatly affect ones understanding of Christ, and who he is. Many are not in communion with one another and many have not respectue of difference and allow any one to commune. Why so many dinominations. This is not in keeping with scripture. So what do they agree on if they have gone so far out of their way to be separate. He liberalism often allows for going far beyond obeying the Lords commanments. Paul admonished division in the church.
I don't understand this. You say that members of Protestant groups differ, but in the same breath, you have a split b/t the Catholic church into Eastern/Western churches (i.e. some churches allow marriage and others do not).....hmm...sounds like a denomination to me. Many denominations in the Protestant church come together, and have respect for one another. So if there are divisions within both branches, how are we then a heresy?
Vintagecoilylocks said:
I have been justified and with my heart I believe unto rightenous but I must humbly refrain from declaring myself so righteous at to not need or desire the prayers of those who are santified. I also could not declare that with purity and constant deligence I pray without ceasing. For I am a sinner who has fallen short of the Gory of God. Christ promise tells me the santified are in constant prayer and praise in their purity before the Lord. If someone is that righeous here now then God bless them and they can for go any assistance from the saints on heaven and on earth. That is not I.
Check out pebbles post earlier as in regarding prayer. We all need prayer from the people of God, but the power of prayer is in when we touch and agree (mt 18:19). How can you touch agree with someone who is passed away? Where in scripture do u find any of the apostles praying to anyone but Jesus and asking the saints of God (those alive) to pray for him?
The problem with man is that he is that he sins. We all do. So why would I put "infallible" authority into a tradition of man that can't be scripturally supported? Even Paul rebuked Peter when he shunned the Gentiles, when he met with the Jews (Galatians 2). When looking at the Reformation during the time of Martin Luther, one of the reasons he has issues with the Catholic church was b/c the pope at that time was not walking according to the statues laid out by scripture and no one said anything, b/c tradition gave him infallible authority. Scripture points out that in 1 Cor 5:11, that if a brother in the faith is in error, has been warned, and doesn't repent, then he is to be excluded from fellowship. Is this not what the apostles would have done?
Just out of curiousity, are there prophets in the Catholic church?
, but there are some questions that need to be answered.
Be Blessed and now I'll shut up.
