How many AA women you know are MBL or WL

[koolkittychick]

Besides myself, only one other woman, who is Jamaican-American. Her hair is relaxed and grazing WL (I am Haitian-American, MBL and relaxed). We are both over 40. When I was younger, I knew many girls of Caribbean descent, all of varying racial mixtures but still identified as black, who had hair that was BSL or longer. Today, the only other women of color I know with hair BSL or longer are Dominican, and in my part of the country, they do not consider themselves black. I know of no AA women with American ancestry who has hair that is BSL or longer.

 

[ManeStreet]

rawsilk What are Dominican detangling techniques?

From my experience they are horrible at detangling. I can only base that off the 5+ Dominican salons I went in maryland. However, when I had my hair done in D.R. & she was very gentle.

 

[serene]

Myself and two of my girlfriends. We are all natural, but only one of us wears her hair straightened primarily.

 

[reeko43]

Exactly. But I can remember a time, before asymmetrical and other short cuts became the lure of salons, that AA women over 30 had A LOT more hair. Might not have been common place to see women with MBL or WL but their hair didn't look puny and while some wore wigs - ala Diana - most of the women I saw growing up had AT LEAST SL or APL. I wonder if it was because they were doing their own hair -- something in water? stress? I dunno.

I was being facetious. They all had poorly executed waist length wigs!

 

[naturalmanenyc]

A few including my former hairstylist, a close friend (natural) and my BFF before she cut her hair.

 

[divachyk]

Self. Otherwise, none. However, most seem content with their current length.

 

[rawsilk]

LOL -- for a second, I thought you might be joking. That's hilarious.

I was being facetious. They all had poorly executed waist length wigs!

 

[rawsilk]

Before I resigned myself to handling any and all hair care myself, I had started to notice that some of the newer ones, especially outside of NYC, were sort of careless. But the good ones are really good at gentle hair care -- until they nuke your roots w/ the roundbrush and blow dryer!

From my experience they are horrible at detangling. I can only base that off the 5+ Dominican salons I went in maryland. However, when I had my hair done in D.R. & she was very gentle.

 

[Harina]

I don't see women in general with waist length hair at all. Maybe it's just where I'm at. Or maybe I just don't notice.

 

[icsonia22]

It would be interesting to see how the answers have changed now in 2020. I don't know that many AA IRL with MBL or longer hair (my cousin before pp shedding. Most of my hair is at BSL and I'm a fined hair 4b natural) but i can 100% attribute it to bad hair care practices. Many of my family members care more about preserving a style than growing their hair long. They don't practice gentle detangling and don't moisturize properly. There are so many type 4 naturals (even some relaxed heads but idk their hair type) on youtube with MBL hair or longer and i think that its possible for all black women. Some people just don't feel like putting in all of the work though

 

[kxlot79]

In real life, I don’t know any besides myself, unless they are loc’d, biracial, or mixed race.
It seems the older I get, the shorter Black women’s hair gets. I read another post about how “lifestyle length” changes a Black woman’s perspective on how much hair she wants to grow, as she ages and her priorities change.
Reading that lowkey seemed a little sad to me. Lots of women shorten their hair after wifehood, motherhood, &/or increased work responsibilities... but it seems Black women are a lot more susceptible to short lengths than any other race of women.
At the end of the day, I’m content when a Black woman chooses short hair. But for me, the most time consuming aspect of my haircare is styling and as long as I keep that mostly simple, I’m gravy. #LongHairForLife

 

[LivingInPeace]

Off the top of my head, I only know one African American woman with MBL hair. And she's a 3b.

 

[Lylddlebit]

I still don't see a lot of African American women with real, loose, long hair that is styled well on a regularly basis. Now, I do know a lot of women who have grown their hair out and their hair is much healthier at their current stage of length than what used to be the norm. However, visible African American MBL+ is still one of those areas that isn't in the majority. Many women have lovely, healthy hair but you never/rarely see their actual hair looking as good as it could because they are hard core healthy hair over style. Some women have gorgeous hair under wigs and weaves but for one reason or another the wigs and weaves is the style you see most often. So I would say there are 2 reasons I still don't see AA MBL+ that much 1) Many who have it don't rock it out on a regular basis and 2) Many women have achieved growing their hair out at their desired length and once they do they are more apt to keep it at the length and health that fits their personal style rather than long hair for the sake of long hair. I do know for sure more women have MBL+ than what was popular back in the Aaliyah days but consistently seeing AA MBL+, fly hair on the regular that isn't a wig or weave is still in the minority.

 

[Beachy]

@Lylddlebit


I agree with a lot of what you said as I have to use myself as a reference. I am honestly not sure if you asked anyone outside of my close family how long my hair was if they would put me in that category. And I have even had a person at work (a black male) reference my hair as short, not in a derogatory way at all. People usually assume the bun on my head is fake and I am not that person that wears their hair out. I may straighten my hair 1x a year and when I go to work I purposefully wrap it and wear a scarf or turban. I don’t want the attention because I know someone will eventually say something insensitive, rude, or stereotypical and that will lead to nothing good, so I don’t give them the opportunity.

In regards to personal style and lifestyle length I don’t think we should automatically think that means shorter. I believe that for some AA women longer hair makes their life easier more versatility/styling options. My lifestyle length is the longer the better because I can bun with my eyes closed now instead of past struggles on some days as to what to do with my hair.

So all that being said I have really tried to think if I know anyone IRL that falls into that category and I am very sad to say that I don’t at least not anymore. The only other person I knew was my daughter and she has since cut her hair multiple times. I do believe/agree that despite not being able to identify anyone in that category that AA women’s hair health has increased tremendously and that there are far more long beautiful heads of hair hiding under wigs and weaves than when this thread was originally posted

 

[luckiestdestiny]

In real life, I don’t know any besides myself, unless they are loc’d, biracial, or mixed race.
It seems the older I get, the shorter Black women’s hair gets. I read another post about how “lifestyle length” changes a Black woman’s perspective on how much hair she wants to grow, as she ages and her priorities change.
Reading that lowkey seemed a little sad to me. Lots of women shorten their hair after wifehood, motherhood, &/or increased work responsibilities... but it seems Black women are a lot more susceptible to short lengths than any other race of women.
At the end of the day, I’m content when a Black woman chooses short hair. But for me, the most time consuming aspect of my haircare is styling and as long as I keep that mostly simple, I’m gravy. #LongHairForLife

I knew that a lot would go back to relaxing and I'm seeing that. It's faster even when ppl want to say otherwise. I am natural btw, and I'm disabled with chronic pain. I've shaved it off again (2 1/2 years ago no choice as it kept coming out with all the stress, prednisone) only to have it mid back to waist (that in btw) point again after braiding it up and leaving it alone. I know the frustration and it's just too painful to do too much of anything much less my hair. I need quick and fast but also want to look fabulous.

So I do think that it's not just bw but women in general. As they have other priorities: kids, or too busy, or health issues, etc..they are not checking for their hair in a way that maybe someone else will.


I decided to still nurture my hair but to find simplified ways to do it so that it can thrive, still look good but be okay if I have to be hospitalized again, etc (because it's weeks on end at a time). Because I still want to look good because when we look good, we feel good. Sometimes looking bad makes me feel worse. So I do want to do something but not make my hair into this huge deal that requires extraordinary amounts of time. That's something you can do as a teen or in your twenties, but with more responsibilities and less time and/or conserving energy (raises hand) for health, you are going to approach things differently. So I can see that is why some would choose to cut it off. I've found that the longer it is, the easier it is for me regardless though because of the weight of my hair. Sounds weird but it is what it is. I think also others may neglect their hair and find that they have certain issues with it when they get in the 30s and onward too where it thins, etc and they don't know how to handle it or don't really want to. They assume the solution is to just let it go or cut it short.

These are broad terms because everyone is different but I think that is some of the reasons you'll see short hair. But I definitely see short haired ww with age. In fact, not only short hair but thin see through hair for ww with age. We just assume they don't have these issues but they definitely do. They are also finding ways to actively mask things. Most of us are instead of treating the problems and that' s a shame.

I've thought of ways to create products that address all problems (like I put things in my shampoo for thickness, growth etc in addition to cleaning and the same for my conditioner. I also finish with a tea rinse I've concocted) because I find that the industry wants women to purchase a million products. Men it's 3 in one, but for us it's 25 products for the same thing. I'm over exaggerating but you get the point. We need products that can easily create amazing results while not having to go through so many steps. That's fun when you're just discovering your hair, or younger, but after a while it gets old. At least for me. I want it over and done and I want to look good too. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I guess because I have women in my family with long hair, I don't think about it and probably take it for granted. I think that the hair care practices my grandmother passed to my mother and me are the same taught here. She always combed from the ends up, etc. I assume it was just intuitive for her but that's probably why our family members have always had long hair (at least bsl without trying) on my mother's side. My dad's side will take a brush and comb ferociously (seen it and tried to tell them but they aren't listening) and/or a comb with tiny teeth and rip through it (sigh). A lot of us just don't have the know how or instinct and that's why our hair is short. We're trying to do our hair like WW and we aren't white. There's nothing wrong with our hair, we're just different. I think the whole, teaching everyone we're the same thing is the reason we've had such issues (among others). Our uniqueness makes us special and is also why we need to treat our hair in a way specific to our culture and hair needs. Well everyone knows that here so I won't go into a long speal on that but I do agree with you on most points

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Btw everything I wrote, I say in general because not everything applies to us. We have some in the 2-3A ish area and they are able to comb their hair with tiny combs and use brushes (regular not specific for us) any kind of way. Some of us, no matter the hair type have hair so thick it's indestructible (good for you btw). We are all different and what I wrote wouldn't applyto everyone of course. I was writing in general for Bw. I have fine hair, and that has its own requirements. Everyone thinks I have such thick hair but it's just super dense (tiny fine hair but tons of them per area. I mean if I put my hair next to a strand of thread it would look pathetic and is no where near as thick as half or one fourth of it). But if I take the time (tons of it) to comb it slowly, and make sure to nurture it, it thrives and grows just as fast, long (if not longer) than most while appearing super thick and luscious.

 

[kxlot79]

@luckiestdestiny
What a thoughtful post!
This response isn’t specific to what you wrote but more a response somewhat prompted by it.

While I definitely agree that ALL women reach a crossroads of cosmetic maintenance re-evaluation, I maintain that my experience is that Black women are MUCH more susceptible to letting that go first. Or letting hair be among the first time/energy downsizings.
Black women have such a higher standard for “well styled hair,” and our time/energy commitments to our appearance are double, triple+ what’s average for other women. Most of that is social conditioning, and generational dysfunction that goes so much deeper than most of us are willing to work through. It definitely is not something that’s all on us, and I blame our susceptibility to that on the clear agendas to defeminize unambiguous Black women, compounded by colorism, featurism, texturism, and respectability politics.

Add to that, the fact that women of every other race normalize “seamless” hair extensions, and the contrast becomes a lot blurrier.
Many non-Black older women who SEEM to have healthy long hair are actually rocking extensions and wigs, but they don’t look as obvious on them (unless they’re poorly installed or old), whereas truly “unclockable” wigs and weaves on Black women seems relegated to metros and social media/entertainment spheres. Seeing an unclockable wig on a Black woman in the grocery store or while standing in line at a neighborhood bank is rare IME. But I consider at least PART of that is the disproportionate commonality of raggedy “real” hair— so much so that when a Black woman is rocking her real hair and it is particularly well-styled, most people assume it’s a wig anyway (backed up by my personal experiences of people assuming I had extensions or was wearing a wig anytime my hair wasn’t in a bun or shrunken WnG— and sometimes even then, plus the experiences of dozens of members here).
And the care of Black hair has yet to be normalized with any kind of commonality, not in any specific Black community.

While it’s common to see non-Black women, even with age, infirmity, or busy schedules rock long hair despite these things, it’s RARE to see any similar % of Black women doing the same, because 1) we legitimately invest so much more time, energy, and money into our haircare 2) we are quick to call our basic hair maintenance burdensome
Idk if “burden” is sometimes appropriate. But I’d wager it’s more constructive to have a routine that is as easy as possible— for Black women, that just so happens to mean cutting or wigs/weaves at a visibly higher rate than non-Black women. But at the end of the day, we all want Black women to win and to thrive, and if that means cutting hair for her, so be it.

There are a lot of colluding factors at work when considering how Black women’s attitudes generally change about hair as we age. Some of it is practical, like with medical issues, or a heavy-hearted time/energy reduction. But a lot of it is, I think, Black women evolving beyond the superficial spectacle of long hair. Most of the time when I encounter the CHOICE to go short in Black women, it’s kind of rebellious, and often is correlated to a feeling of freedom or security from feeling any kind of “bondage” to hair— especially dramatic for women who at any point in time felt like they were slaves to their hair. Short hair can be a LIBERATION for some women.
I prefer any of those highfalutin ideas to short hair from damage, neglect, or incompetence though— or self hate— all of which are just as liable to be reasons for Black women with short hair.
I honestly feel that Black women’s hair choices are never as superficial for the majority of non-Black women. So I definitely believe that the rarity of long hair for Black women is so much deeper than simple “choice.”

 

[Rocky91]

I actually think the tide is turning a bit. I am seeing a lot of “I went back to relaxed hair” videos on YouTube lately, and a lot of it seems tied to folks wanting to grow their hair long with what can sometimes be simplified care (totally dependent on choices, of course). So I predict a bit of a revival of an interest in long hair from newly relaxed ladies, maybe they will find their way to the board. And I welcome it, even as a lifelong natural lol. Because I just like to talk hair and see hair pics

 

[icsonia22]

I actually think the tide is turning a bit. I am seeing a lot of “I went back to relaxed hair” videos on YouTube lately, and a lot of it seems tied to folks wanting to grow their hair long with what can sometimes be simplified care (totally dependent on choices, of course). So I predict a bit of a revival of an interest in long hair from newly relaxed ladies, maybe they will find their way to the board. And I welcome it, even as a lifelong natural lol. Because I just like to talk hair and see hair pics

The grand majority of those videos seem to come from women (mostly type 4) who have given up on their hair period. Its never directly stated but its kind of implied. Normally they've been natural for 3+ years and are hovering between NL and CBL. The hair is damaged and they just don't see the point of fighting with it anymore. People still buy into the idea that they just have bad hair. This is what my hair looked like after 3 years the first time that i went natural



You couldn't have convinced me that I didn't have the most trash hair in the world. The truth is I hadn't found a good moisturizer, i used a pick all the time, wasn't gentle with detangling, wore shrunken styles all the time and all of these things affected my retention. I tried to texlax after this hoping for better results, but i couldn't figure out how to keep my hair on my head with that either. It took me 4 big chops before i finally figured out what works for me. The reality is, who wants to spend all that time in trial and error? It's discouraging. I love hair period whether its natural or relaxed. I just wish that these women were truly making the decision for reasons other than feeling like their hair is bad and that it will never grow past a certain length.

 

[LivingInPeace]

I actually think the tide is turning a bit. I am seeing a lot of “I went back to relaxed hair” videos on YouTube lately, and a lot of it seems tied to folks wanting to grow their hair long with what can sometimes be simplified care (totally dependent on choices, of course). So I predict a bit of a revival of an interest in long hair from newly relaxed ladies, maybe they will find their way to the board. And I welcome it, even as a lifelong natural lol. Because I just like to talk hair and see hair pics

And then in a few years we'll see all of these women posting videos on how they're trying going back to natural because of their damaged hair. The cycle will repeat itself.

 

[Rocky91]

The grand majority of those videos seem to come from women (mostly type 4) who have given up on their hair period. Its never directly stated but its kind of implied. Normally they've been natural for 3+ years and are hovering between NL and CBL. The hair is damaged and they just don't see the point of fighting with it anymore. People still buy into the idea that they just have bad hair. This is what my hair looked like after 3 years the first time that i went natural

View attachment 463095

You couldn't have convinced me that I didn't have the most trash hair in the world. The truth is I hadn't found a good moisturizer, i used a pick all the time, wasn't gentle with detangling, wore shrunken styles all the time and all of these things affected my retention. I tried to texlax after this hoping for better results, but i couldn't figure out how to keep my hair on my head with that either. It took me 4 big chops before i finally figured out what works for me. The reality is, who wants to spend all that time in trial and error? It's discouraging. I love hair period whether its natural or relaxed. I just wish that these women were truly making the decision for reasons other than feeling like their hair is bad and that it will never grow past a certain length.

i think it’s a bit of a mixed bag. I see quite a few women with lovely natural hair who are just ready for what they believe will be lower maintenance for their lifestyle. This girl’s natural hair was lovely and so is her relaxed hair.

 

[Rocky91]

And then in a few years we'll see all of these women posting videos on how they're trying going back to natural because of their damaged hair. The cycle will repeat itself.

I honestly don’t think so, because I see a pretty big emphasis on proper hair care, with women determined to not have the relaxed experience of their youth. If anything, I think some might actually reach hair goals they may not have reached otherwise due to being more overall satisfied with their hair.

Youtuber ulovemegz is a good example, I just don’t think she was satisfied with her natural hair and it’s clear she’s happier relaxed.