Hobby Lobby Case

[Galadriel]

"We're not paying for your gastric bypass or diabetes meds because you overate. God hates gluttons."

"We're not paying for your HIV meds. God hates fornication and homosexuality".


"We're not paying for allergy meds. You shouldn't eat shrimp anyway".

All I'm saying is, this opens the door to all kinds of loopholes for a myriad of corporations. What they stand for is not in question. If it's a christian org, then it needs to be an all the way christian org like the other religious churches so they can enforce their practices. Otherwise follow the rules.

If a business wishes (or doesn't wish) to cover X or Y, then let the chips fall and people will either reject working there or agree to the employer's terms. There are religious-affiliated schools, colleges, and charities that require employees to abide by a certain moral conduct and actually request employees sign those moral clauses. According to your arguments, just because an employee doesn't like a benefits package or contract requirement, the employer is automatically wrong and being oppressive and intrusive.

When someone seeks a job with a religiously affiliated employer, or a religious employer, they should already know there are certain requirements and contractual agreements that would be made. If the person doesn't like it--don't take the job. Or, take the job and go down to Walmart/Target/Take-Your-Pick to purchase some bc pills or condoms.

I assume for adults who want "everybody out of my bedroom" to be responsible and take care of their birth control methods.

I use Natural Family Planning, so that means we purchase a fertility monitor ($60+) and bi-monthly we purchase the tester sticks that are sold separately from the monitor ($25-$50 a pop), as well as the charting materials my husband uses to chart/record my cycles ($10 a pop). Did my employer's health insurance (a secular charter school) cover any of that? Nope. Nor did I ask them to. Does DH's insurance cover my chosen method of family planning? Nope. Am I crying to congress like Sandra Fluke and asking for people to pay for my fertility monitor, test sticks, and charts? Nope.

 

[itsallaboutattitude]

I have not read all the responses.

I find it interesting that Hobby Lobby is proving insurance as a part of their employees employment package (as salary if you will). However, they want to say that if an employee uses their salary paid to them by HL to get BC in their mind they didn't really pay for the BC because the employee paid for that drug from their pocket from the salary they made from HL.

However if the insurance HL is contributing to is used to buy the same drug that is in violation of their belief system.

Interesting. Sounds like when the ACA was passed and all of a sudden these Catholic Hospitals immediately changed their insurance policies to remove the BC that had been provided in the insurance package to the hospital employees for years.

Interesting. It's okay to pay the salary that may be used in a way that is morally repugnant.

I wonder if it somehow got out that an employee was taking BC regardless of type if they would be fired for religious reasons. You know they are now using their paycheck against their employers religious belief.

Corporations are people! Until they poison our ground water.

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

 

[Galadriel]

Why do any of you think that your religious freedoms would be taken away from you? THis country is extremely tolerant of religion and in fact, celebrates it. Don't let those pundits on WGN and FOX news confuse you.

A New York politician said that pro-lifers weren't welcome in his city/state. Christian business owners are being attacked and sued because they don't want to participate in gay weddings, or simply mention their beliefs about marriage (a la Chick-fil-A), little kids have been told by teachers that they can't write an assignment mentioning Jesus, atheists sue because there's a Cross in a public place or a Nativity scene, the federal government is putting a proverbial gun to the heads of Christian charities, schools, and business and telling them they must purchase contraceptives, sterilizations, and abortifacients or else get financially slaughtered by the IRS.

Am I concerned about my religious freedoms? You bet.

Don't let those pundits at MSNBC or CNN or wherever confuse you.

ETA: And let's not forget about the IRS targeting certain groups because of their conservative and/or religious views.

 

[Farida]

I have not read all the responses. I find it interesting that Hobby Lobby is proving insurance as a part of their employees employment package (as salary if you will). However, they want to say that if an employee uses their salary paid to them by HL to get BC in their mind they didn't really pay for the BC because the employee paid for that drug from their pocket from the salary they made from HL. However if the insurance HL is contributing to is used to buy the same drug that is in violation of their belief system. Interesting. Sounds like when the ACA was passed and all of a sudden these Catholic Hospitals immediately changed their insurance policies to remove the BC that had been provided in the insurance package to the hospital employees for years. Interesting. It's okay to pay the salary that may be used in a way that is morally repugnant. I wonder if it somehow got out that an employee was taking BC regardless of type if they would be fired for religious reasons. You know they are now using their paycheck against their employers religious belief. Corporations are people! Until they poison our ground water. God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

Where are you getting the information about the BC package from?

I am not Carholic but my experience working at Catholic institutions (i have worked for 3) was that if their policy was self-insured, that is, administered by the institution, B.C.was not covered. But if you opted for blue cross or aetna or whoever it was covered.

 

[sugarbaybie]

Farida I didn't know about this, but thanks for bringing this to my forefront.

 

[Browndilocks]

Galadriel thanks for your dissection but we still disagree my dear.

@Browndilocks Obama and HHS are the irrational ones--and they're violating people's religious freedom.

Ummmm, no. There is this thing called separation of church and state.

A business owner can decide pay and benefit packages he/she wishes to utilize for his company. That's part of the beauty of creating and owning your own business. Hobby Lobby isn't limiting anything, its owners are simply asking NOT to be forced to buy contraceptives, especially abortifacient ones. A Hobby Lobby employee who wants birth control pills can hop in their car and drive down to Target or Walmart and get what they want.

A benefit package is just what it is... a package. Just like cable is a package. Some channels you watch, some you don't but in some ways you likely have to pay for a little bit of what you don't personally desire.


Actually, no. Hobby Lobby isn't suing in order to make employees believe as they do. They are challenging the contraceptive mandate because it violates their religious freedom to be forced by law to purchase or provide products that are abortifacient. If a person doesn't like Hobby Lobby's values, or doesn't like Hobby Lobby's benefits package--he's free to work or shop elsewhere. The Little Sisters of the Poor are also suing over the contraception mandate. The Little Sisters are a group of nuns who own nursing homes for the elderly and welcome anyone from any background and will take care of them. Obamacare's contraception mandate is also trying to tell this group of Catholic nuns that they ought to sign off on contraception.

I never said HL is suing in order to make employees believe as they do. Where'd you get that from? I said that if they want to enforce their religious practices then they need to function in the capacity of church and not a corporation.

Hobby Lobby hasn't told anyone what to do concerning their health--in fact, they want to be LEFT OUT of it and not be forced by the government to buy contraceptives.

Suing to be left out given the ready made package is already saying no, which in turn is telling others what to do.


And you said the owners of Hobby Lobby were irrational? I am opposed to many of Obama's policies and Obamacare, and the HHS mandate, based on common sense, my morals and values, and sound economic theory.

Oh...and please...Buy. Your own. Contraceptives.Free Obamacare? Oh okay. Girl.Bye.

 

[Browndilocks]

If a business wishes (or doesn't wish) to cover X or Y, then let the chips fall and people will either reject working there or agree to the employer's terms. There are religious-affiliated schools, colleges, and charities that require employees to abide by a certain moral conduct and actually request employees sign those moral clauses. According to your arguments, just because an employee doesn't like a benefits package or contract requirement, the employer is automatically wrong and being oppressive and intrusive.

These organizations are known and classified as religious entities, not corporate.

When someone seeks a job with a religiously affiliated employer, or a religious employer, they should already know there are certain requirements and contractual agreements that would be made. If the person doesn't like it--don't take the job. Or, take the job and go down to Walmart/Target/Take-Your-Pick to purchase some bc pills or condoms.

It is the company's responsibility to make it known to the employee, and this company already covers some bc.

I assume for adults who want "everybody out of my bedroom" to be responsible and take care of their birth control methods.

I use Natural Family Planning, so that means we purchase a fertility monitor ($60+) and bi-monthly we purchase the tester sticks that are sold separately from the monitor ($25-$50 a pop), as well as the charting materials my husband uses to chart/record my cycles ($10 a pop). Did my employer's health insurance (a secular charter school) cover any of that? Nope. Nor did I ask them to. Does DH's insurance cover my chosen method of family planning? Nope. Am I crying to congress like Sandra Fluke and asking for people to pay for my fertility monitor, test sticks, and charts? Nope Okay but have the items you mentioned already been noted in the plan that has been made into law? NOPE!.

This is the last time I'm saying this. This is not about religion. This is about opening the door for other corporations, Christian or not, to be able to dictate what they will not cover for their workers based upon whatever it is THEY deem immoral. If people pull the Christianity card to take a stand, then many others will follow suit in the name of MANY other things. It's not always fire, brimstone, judgement, death and unquestioned holiness without understanding. It's about being wise and strategic. Nothing wrong with standing for Christ, but not in the holy name of an increased financial profit.

 

[Galadriel]

Ummmm, no. There is this thing called separation of church and state.

"separation of Church and State" is not in the Constitution...but the First Amendment guaranteeing religious freedom and free expression of religion are. The government can't compel me to deny or act against my religion or punish me for expressing my religion. It's about the gov't not infringing on my religious freedom.

My first amendment rights aren't suspended when I start my own business. When I start a business, I am the owner--not the State.

And starting a business doesn't mean my business has to be secular or divorced from my values.

I can open Galadriel's Christian Bookstore tomorrow, which would clearly be pro-religion/religious values. A Christian bookstore is not a church proper, YET it is a bookstore that caters to and is open to religion and religious values.

Even if I opened a general bookstore--Galadriel's Bookstore--I would refuse to stock my shelves with racist, anti-Christian, anti-Catholic, satanic and pornographic books. Why? Because of my Catholic values and conscience. According to your arguments, Galadriel's Bookstore in this instance would be forcing its beliefs on people and ought to become a "church corporation."

Since when did my own business have to be church-owned or a subsidiary of a church in order for me to run it according to my Christian values?

What's even worse is when the gov't, using the force of IRS penalties, tell me I MUST sell the satanic, pornographic and other books to people who want them, and if I don't like it I shouldn't have opened a bookstore.

This is what they're doing with the HHS contraception mandate. They are telling Catholic and Christian dioceses, colleges, organizations, media businesses, nursing homes and charities that they MUST provide/pay for contraception, sterilization and abortifacients even though Christians believe abortifacients are a grave sin (murder) and it is a sin on our heads to participate in or support/provide for sin.

In addition, I honestly believe that once contraception is forced on us, the next thing we will be asked to pay for are medical abortions under the guise of "healthcare."

A benefit package is just what it is... a package. Just like cable is a package. Some channels you watch, some you don't but in some ways you likely have to pay for a little bit of what you don't personally desire.

The analogy doesn't work. There are religious businesses and organizations that already underwrite their insurance which includes NOT paying for contraception and abortions. So it CAN be done. Obama and HHS are punishing people for not accepting the HHS package but they hypocritically let McDonalds and certain unions off the hook.

I never said HL is suing in order to make employees believe as they do. Where'd you get that from? I said that if they want to enforce their religious practices then they need to function in the capacity of church and not a corporation.

The comment was made that employers like Hobby Lobby were forcing their beliefs on employees by declining to provide/purchase certain contraception. Hobby Lobby isn't asking their employees to have the same viewpoint. They are not jumping in front of their employees and barring them from entering Target or a free clinic. Hobby Lobby is asking not to be forced to pay for something that violates their conscience and First Amendment rights.

And I take offense at the suggestion that a Christian can't or shouldn't run a business and align it with his values and conscience.

Christians can and do own businesses, not just churches and religious schools.

 

[momi]

"separation of Church and State" is not in the Constitution...but the First Amendment guaranteeing religious freedom and free expression of religion are. The government can't compel me to deny or act against my religion or punish me for expressing my religion. It's about the gov't not infringing on my religious freedom. My first amendment rights aren't suspended when I start my own business. When I start a business, I am the owner--not the State. And starting a business doesn't mean my business has to be secular or divorced from my values. I can open Galadriel's Christian Bookstore tomorrow, which would clearly be pro-religion/religious values. A Christian bookstore is not a church proper, YET it is a bookstore that caters to and is open to religion and religious values. Even if I opened a general bookstore--Galadriel's Bookstore--I would refuse to stock my shelves with racist, anti-Christian, anti-Catholic, satanic and pornographic books. Why? Because of my Catholic values and conscience. According to your arguments, Galadriel's Bookstore in this instance would be forcing its beliefs on people and ought to become a "church corporation." Since when did my own business have to be church-owned or a subsidiary of a church in order for me to run it according to my Christian values? What's even worse is when the gov't, using the force of IRS penalties, tell me I MUST sell the satanic, pornographic and other books to people who want them, and if I don't like it I shouldn't have opened a bookstore. This is what they're doing with the HHS contraception mandate. They are telling Catholic and Christian dioceses, colleges, organizations, media businesses, nursing homes and charities that they MUST provide/pay for contraception, sterilization and abortifacients even though Christians believe abortifacients are a grave sin (murder) and it is a sin on our heads to participate in or support/provide for sin. In addition, I honestly believe that once contraception is forced on us, the next thing we will be asked to pay for are medical abortions under the guise of "healthcare."

The analogy doesn't work. There are religious businesses and organizations that already underwrite their insurance which includes NOT paying for contraception and abortions. So it CAN be done. Obama and HHS are punishing people for not accepting the HHS package but they hypocritically let McDonalds and certain unions off the hook. The comment was made that employers like Hobby Lobby were forcing their beliefs on employees by declining to provide/purchase certain contraception. Hobby Lobby isn't asking their employees to have the same viewpoint. They are not jumping in front of their employees and barring them from entering Target or a free clinic. Hobby Lobby is asking not to be forced to pay for something that violates their conscience and First Amendment rights. And I take offense at the suggestion that a Christian can't or shouldn't run a business and align it with his values and conscience. Christians can and do own businesses, not just churches and religious schools.[/QUOTE]


Thank you!

 

[Browndilocks]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this plain and simple. Your analogy also does not work because nobody can force you to sell books that are not of your choosing. The government can however enforce taxes to cover things like workers comp for an employee of yours that you may personally deem too lazy to follow proper lifting directions. Also, I am NOT suggesting that Christians can't run a business that aligns with their values. I am a business owner myself, so you are way off target with that. There are plenty of things that I have to pay for that I do not agree with. So really you shouldn't be offended... but that's another scripture.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

After having gotten more information on this I removed the comment. I will comment later.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

We're not going to see eye to eye on this plain and simple. Your analogy also does not work because nobody can force you to sell books that are not of your choosing. The government can however enforce taxes to cover things like workers comp for an employee of yours that you may personally deem too lazy to follow proper lifting directions. Also, I am NOT suggesting that Christians can't run a business that aligns with their values. I am a business owner myself, so you are way off target with that. There are plenty of things that I have to pay for that I do not agree with. So really you shouldn't be offended... but that's another scripture.

Forcing someone to do something that is again his/her MORAL code is TYRANNY, plain and simple. My God, it isn't 1776 again

Jesus said over and over again that he didn't want us conforming to the world or just going along with the status quo because it makes life a heck of a lot easier to blend in. He was very clear that when salt loses it's flavor, it's good for nothing. To the lukewarm Church of Laodicea, God promised to "vomit them out." So no, I'm not going to just pay for something I disagree with.

 

[itsallaboutattitude]

Where are you getting the information about the BC package from? I am not Carholic but my experience working at Catholic institutions (i have worked for 3) was that if their policy was self-insured, that is, administered by the institution, B.C.was not covered. But if you opted for blue cross or aetna or whoever it was covered.

Exactly, now they don't want the blue cross or Aetna plans to cover BC either. It's still their money via a paycheck to the employee that can potentially go towards this morally objectionable
act.

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

 

[Browndilocks]

OK it's been real... but it's Friday!!!! And if you think I'm going to spend my weekend or start next week off with this debate...

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9b/9bade7a4e094179c1b1a86dd23baae81ad7aa524ff6dfb2ad27a8a9008b58e9c.jpg

 

[JaneBond007]

Exactly, now they don't want the blue cross or Aetna plans to cover BC either. It's still their money via a paycheck to the employee that can potentially go towards this morally objectionable
act.

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

If through the institution, it was not provided. They cannot tell YOU how to spend the money you earn. Via the institution, they cannot provide for bc's as a catholic institution. If one opted for another insurer, those insurers paid for them. The institution is saying that THEY will not provide them but if you opted via the other insurers, they would be provided...not directly from a catholic institution. They are not directing your choice, they simply are not going to provide for something that is against church teaching, but they hired you and you can choose the Blue and get them that doesn't come directly from their hands. So how are catholics wrong again???

Browndilocks

We get it. We got it with your first post. It's comprehended. It might be applicable in the catholic issue at all. With the HL's, we understand what you are saying. I hope you realize we can rationalize.

 

[Browndilocks]

Browndilocks

We get it. We got it with your first post. It's comprehended. It might be applicable in the catholic issue at all. With the HL's, we understand what you are saying. I hope you realize we can rationalize.[\b]

It truly does not seem that way but thanks. Ok I'm out for real!

 

[Laela]

This so much needs to be repeated!

Unjust laws are often enacted, and we have the right to protest unjust laws. Hobby Lobby is taking it to court, and I fully support them and will be praying for their victory.

 

[Farida]

Why do any of you think that your religious freedoms would be taken away from you? THis country is extremely tolerant of religion and in fact, celebrates it. Don't let those pundits on WGN and FOX news confuse you.

l

I don't let pundits fool me. I am a lawyer and there is a reason this case made it all the way up to the Supreme Court. I do not make my conclusions based on empty rhetoric. There is a significant constitutional issue regarding the first amendment rights to be decided here. I do not own a business but if I did I would expect to be allowed certain exemptions as I would expect for Jewish, Muslim etc business owners. The outcome of this case will affect that.

Plus, just because the country is tolerant of religion does not mean we should ignore legal issues. That's how rights are slowly eroded. This country is changing and people are becoming less religious and less tolerant of religion and religious people. The laws are in place to protect people's rights regardless of popular opinion. Just because religion is popular now, does not mean it always will and signs point to a decline. When that happens, the religious few will need the protection of the law in line with what the founding fathers envisioned.

 

[Shimmie]

There should be no exemptions period. Obamacare allows for certain drugs to be covered and that's that. HL is allowed 4 exemptions for their reasons, another company is allowed 5 exemptions for their reasons, another company is allowed 6 exemptions for their reasons, and in the grand scheme it's the workers who suffer. That's not right.

I wish these rich republican companies would stop trying to resist healthcare for all people by opening the door for loopholes in the mandate.

If they truly believe God then they should know that He'll handle it. His will is being done regardless of HL winning or losing.

I had to go for a period of years without health insurance even though I've had a job since I was 12. Part of my treatment includes having to take strong BC pills to avoid bleeding so much that I'd need a blood transfusion every few months.

Yet after a law PASSES, a company is going to take it upon themselves to tell me what I can and cant take for my own treatment? Kick rocks.

Don't bring your issues to me, take them to God.

First of all, @Browndilocks, I'm very sorry about your condition which is quite serious. I pray for your healing for God is most definitely Healer and shows no respecter of persons.

As for the Hobby Lobby Case... they not only have the right but they are mandated by God to follow HIM and not the courses of this world.

We cannot depend upon man-made laws which oppose and offend and truthfully disown and disrespect God. We simply cannot. To be honest, what is happening in this world today with so much illness, sickness and diseases, is the result of disowning God. He has been ignored and literally pushed out and satan's rule has been welcomed in.

I am NOT saying that your illness is a result of what you have done, however, it is a result of what man has done, given things like this an open door, affecting even the innocent.

I'll be honest, that while the BC treatment may be helping you with the bleeding, you are also at risk for other factors that these hormones can cause. The bottom line is that we as a whole HAVE to seek God for healing and other solutions. Getting angry at a company who chooses to follow God's heart is not the answer. It's not.

Indeed God is the Ultimate answer for all of this. The more we yield to the sins of this world, the more you'll see and experience the consequences of it.

Hobby Lobby is being wrongfully judged. No one has the right to stop them from choosing to honor God and His rule. No one. If folks do not agree with it, talk to God and see what He has to say and what He has as a better resolution. God is JUST and always brings about the healing and redemption that we so desperately need.

In the NAME OF jESUS... You Shall be healed as did the woman with the 'issue' of blood'... Receive it! Amen.

 

[itsallaboutattitude]

l I don't let pundits fool me. I am a lawyer and there is a reason this case made it all the way up to the Supreme Court. I do not make my conclusions based on empty rhetoric. There is a significant constitutional issue regarding the first amendment rights to be decided here. I do not own a business but if I did I would expect to be allowed certain exemptions as I would expect for Jewish, Muslim etc business owners. The outcome of this case will affect that. Plus, just because the country is tolerant of religion does not mean we should ignore legal issues. That's how rights are slowly eroded. This country is changing and people are becoming less religious and less tolerant of religion and religious people. The laws are in place to protect people's rights regardless of popular opinion. Just because religion is popular now, does not mean it always will and signs point to a decline. When that happens, the religious few will need the protection of the law in line with what the founding fathers envisioned.

Whose religion though? There are other religions that this specific issue is a Non Issue.

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

 

[itsallaboutattitude]

If through the institution, it was not provided. They cannot tell YOU how to spend the money you earn. Via the institution, they cannot provide for bc's as a catholic institution. If one opted for another insurer, those insurers paid for them. The institution is saying that THEY will not provide them but if you opted via the other insurers, they would be provided...not directly from a catholic institution. They are not directing your choice, they simply are not going to provide for something that is against church teaching, but they hired you and you can choose the Blue and get them that doesn't come directly from their hands. So how are catholics wrong again??? Browndilocks We get it. We got it with your first post. It's comprehended. It might be applicable in the catholic issue at all. With the HL's, we understand what you are saying. I hope you realize we can rationalize.

Clearly I am illiterate on company negotiated insurance plans.

I've been at the same job for @18 years. They have offered company sponsored insurance plans. They negotiated with the IC what type of plans they would offer the employees and how much of this employee benefit they would cover eg 80% etc.

I as an employee had no decision rights on what IC was going to be available to me. I only got to pick which plan I would enroll.

So I am confused if a catholic institution is providing multiple IC options that include specific catholic companies in addition to big IC organization me thinks some one is attempting to split a single hair.

It's a a benefit made available to the employee and can be considered a part of their salary.

It's been a while, usual companies tell you when you get hired - in addition to your annual salary here are all the other benefits you get x days of sick x days of vacation, health insurance. Health insurance that covers you and a significant other whom you are not married to and or is of the same sex.

When it comes to what an insurance company covers and my employer saying I am a Jehovah Witness and I don't believe "i" should pay for blood transfusions for my employees because it goes against "my" religious beliefs. Oh and by the way my company is privately owned not publicly traded so of course there should be an exception made for ME.

Yeah okay. This doesn't open the door for turning the religious discrimination based on racism and sexism. Let's turn back the child labor laws. cause you know my religion may be considered a cult by the rest of society, but here 5 year olds are expected to work as a part of their education.

Slippery slope. Slippery slope.

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

 

[itsallaboutattitude]

Hmmm.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...ive-abortion-drug-manufacturers?detail=email#

Hobby Lobby invests in contraceptive, abortion drug manufacturers
by Hunter Apr 01, 2014 11:10am PDT
It's peculiar how a group of individuals who are so devoted to their religious beliefs that they demand the very laws of the nation be rewritten to accommodate them can be so lax about those same religious beliefs if ignoring them will net them a little dough.
Documents filed with the Department of Labor and dated December 2012—three months after the company's owners filed their lawsuit—show that the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

Hmmm.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/01/1288906/-Hobby-Lobby-invests-in-contraceptive-abortion-drug-manufacturers?detail=email#

Hobby Lobby invests in contraceptive, abortion drug manufacturers
by Hunter Apr 01, 2014 11:10am PDT
It's peculiar how a group of individuals who are so devoted to their religious beliefs that they demand the very laws of the nation be rewritten to accommodate them can be so lax about those same religious beliefs if ignoring them will net them a little dough.
Documents filed with the Department of Labor and dated December 2012—three months after the company's owners filed their lawsuit—show that the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

I was going to post this. Hobby Lobby management is very hypocritical. But for some reason I am not surprised.

 

[Layluh]

Galadriel I agree. I don't think this case has anything to do with contraception though. They made a comment about Jews a few months back and I knew right then and there that they were gonna try to get hobby lobby on something- ANYTHING.

 

[Shimmie]

Hmmm.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/...ive-abortion-drug-manufacturers?detail=email#

Hobby Lobby invests in contraceptive, abortion drug manufacturers
by Hunter Apr 01, 2014 11:10am PDT
It's peculiar how a group of individuals who are so devoted to their religious beliefs that they demand the very laws of the nation be rewritten to accommodate them can be so lax about those same religious beliefs if ignoring them will net them a little dough.

Documents filed with the Department of Labor and dated December 2012—three months after the company's owners filed their lawsuit—show that the Hobby Lobby 401(k) employee retirement plan held more than $73 million in mutual funds with investments in companies that produce emergency contraceptive pills, intrauterine devices, and drugs commonly used in abortions. Hobby Lobby makes large matching contributions to this company-sponsored 401(k).

God is an alien, and we are living under a microscope.

I was going to post this. Hobby Lobby management is very hypocritical. But for some reason I am not surprised.

The wealth of the sinner is laid up for the 'just'.

I don't support these companies they've invested in, but before I call them hypocrites..... I want to know 'why' they're investing and what their capital gains are; also what are they doing with the money gained from these profits. I want to hear from them.

 

[MrsHaseeb]

The wealth of the sinner is laid up for the 'just'.

I don't support these companies they've invested in, but before I call them hypocrites..... I want to know 'why' they're investing and what their capital gains are; also what are they doing with the money gained from these profits. I want to hear from them.

Shimmie, does it really matter what the capital gains are? There is no excuse for this. It's not OK to bring reproach to Christianity by willingly investing in companies that do the very thing they claim to be against. And on top of that, they pursued this lawsuit. They could have invested in another company and trusted God to prosper them. Again, no excuse.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie, does it really matter what the capital gains are? There is no excuse for this. It's not OK to bring reproach to Christianity by willingly investing I'm companies that do the very thing they claim to be against. And in top of that, they pursued this lawsuit. They could have invested in another company and trusted God to prosper them. Again, no excuse.

I definitely agree however I still want to hear from them, why they did this. The ones fighting this lawsuit may not be the very ones who made these investments.

They are still within their rights to not provide insurance coverage for Birth Control and the lot of these pharmaceuticals. I will not call them hypocrites until I know all of what's going on with them.

The same mess was pulled on Dan Cathy (Chick Fila) to make him appear as a hypocrite only for the media to be proven wrong. I need to hear from Hobby Lobby. Either way, I still support their stand; not all employees or directors of a company are hypocrites. I need to know who's who and what's what.

 

[Browndilocks]

Shimmie, does it really matter what the capital gains are? There is no excuse for this. It's not OK to bring reproach to Christianity by willingly investing I'm companies that do the very thing they claim to be against. And in top of that, they pursued this lawsuit. They could have invested in another company and trusted God to prosper them. Again, no excuse.

Because thanks just wasn't enough! Ivonnovi MrsHaseeb

 

[Shimmie]

Because thanks just wasn't enough! @Ivonnovi @MrsHaseeb

Browndilocks, you can thank them all you want, however until I have the full facts behind all of this, I will not call them hypocrites.

I could say the very same about you, based simply upon the fact that you want to find fault with them to justify your personal feelings. If nothing more, you should be jumping for joy if indeed they are financing these pharmaceuticals, as it supports your cause, so therefore, they are not hurting you personally. I'm not being insensitive towards your personal health issues, but the fact remains that you're just looking for ammo to shoot so long as it's target is Hobby Lobby.

Whether they win this case or not, whether they are wrong or not, it will not affect those who need special medical attention.

I still respect their Rights and their Choice to not insure this medication for someone to have an abortion of convenience. It does not mean that I condone any support of their 'alleged' investments. However, I'm addressing the Pot / Kettle Black attacks against them here. They're not the only ones being hypocritical.

And again, before anyone takes my post out of context:

I am not being insensitive to your health condition. It's just that your comments are obvious. You're looking for any stone/stones to throw at them simply because you do not like who they are in their faith.

Any and every time someone takes a stand upon their faith, the attacks come in, full barrel and grenades... BOOM! It does not matter if they are white, blue, black, green or purple, the moment someone does not support society's backwardness, they get attacked and viciously so.

I'm not hearing it. Folks can go from A to Z and back again calling them hypocrites and whatever else. However, I will not go along with it, simply because of the true spirit which is behind it, which is anything that will attack Christians, Jesus and the Word of God.

Folks need to realize that God is still God and to just be still and know it and accept it.

(Psalm 46:10)