Henna OR Protein, OR Both?

[ebonylocs]

Henna helps strengthen my hair, whereas other forms of protein have different benefits: some help my hair retain moisture, some make it silkier, shinier, more supple. So for me, henna is not a substitute for regular protein.

Would you please elaborate? What sorts of proteins have what effects for you?

Thanks

 

[nymane]

Would you please elaborate? What sorts of proteins have what effects for you?

Thanks

I'd like to know too

 

[mstar]

Would you please elaborate? What sorts of proteins have what effects for you?

Thanks

Well, wheat protein definitely helps with moisture retention for my hair--I've found that it's pretty much impossible for me to 'overdo' it with wheat protein (cotton and soy proteins also seem to have a smiliar effect). Silk proteins make my hair shiny and and smooth. My hair also does well with smaller keratin molecules, since they usually seem to strengthen without making my hair hard. For me, animal protein like collagen seems to have the strongest effect, and can dry my hair with overuse.

I'm new on my hair journey, but these are the things I've observed so far.

 

[Aggie]

Would you please elaborate? What sorts of proteins have what effects for you?

Thanks

I'd like to know too

Ladies, this might help you out a little - courtesy of another poster that I copied and pasted in a word document:

PROTEINS USED ON HAIR


Here is a handy guide for understanding the different types of protein products.

All proteins are strengthening proteins to some degree but here are the more specific characteristics of these proteins:

Collagen Protein--known for increasing elasticity in the hair

Silk Protein--known for softening the hair

Wheat Protein--a moisturizing and strengthening protein known for increasing the hair's ability to maintain & receive moisture also.

Keratin Protein – this is responsible for keeping the hair strong and pliable. This is the strongest of the (hair product) proteins and is actually the one that hair is made from. This one re-structures hair that has been damaged or broken down by chemicals. It helps to replace the amino acid cysteine which is the main one lost during chemical processing. This is the heavy duty protein. If you see the following as an ingredient

*Vegetable protein -- Vegetable protein absorbs more easily into the hair shaft [than animal protein] and does not create build-up, leaves the hair very shiny, radiant, luxuriant, and healthy.

*Animal protein -- Animal protein breaks down into fatty acids, which coat the hair and create residual build-up.

Silk Amino Acids/Protein--Natural silk is the strongest, natural fiber known to mankind. Discovered in Japan and has been used for centuries in all kinds of products that require durability. Silk has a tiny molecule that can penetrate the entire hair shaft deeper than all other proteins without adding any weight leaving the hair feeling clean and non-greasy
Keratin protein More In depth:

*a) Keratin protein--this will re-structure and strengthen the hair cuticle (the outer layer only & the most important layer)

The keratin in some reconstructors should not leave your hair hard like the Aphogee Treatment for damaged hair (which contains hydrolyzed animal protein). This treatment hardens on your hair for a reason and is used with mild heat. A moisturizing conditioner is a must with this in order to soften like Keracare's humecto.

Reconstructors that contain keratin and other proteins are supposed to have enough moisture to soften the hair therefore leaving your hair with a nice protein/moisture balance."


* Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein or Keratin Amino Acids--this means that the Keratin molecules have been broken down and are small enough to go beyond the cuticle and penetrate the hair shaft. It will strengthen all 3 layers of the hair. That is why the term "deep conditioning" technically only refers to this kind of treatment using penetrating proteins.

*c) Hydrolyzed Human Hair Keratin--This is an exact match for the keratin your hair has (or has lost due to chemical processing). This is the highest quality and most potent keratin that can be used in hair products.

If you use a lye relaxer you need conditioners that are a balance of moisture and protein. That is where the myth of moisture only came from, the whole box relaxer usage. If you are using no lye, you need more moisture than a lye relaxer user.

Moisture and Protein balance isn't about swinging to each extreme. You shouldn't try to go from super mushy to super hard. It’s too much stress on the hair and that is what causes weak spots, split ends, thinning and breakage. Moisture swells the hair strand. I know everyone is moisture happy but if you are moisturizing daily, deep conditioning with moisture at every wash for an hour, and co-washing with moisture every 2 days, you are doing too much. All you are doing is stretching out your hair and setting yourself up for breakage and thinning. If your hair doesn't have enough protein, it won't hold any moisture. If you keep on having to buy more and more moisture products looking for higher and higher levels of moisture, you need protein.

Also if your hair is stretched beyond repair, protein can only do so much. Staying consistent with reconstructors helps prevent too much natural protein loss over time (weathering of the cuticle). By definition, reconstructors and straight protein treatments fill in the cracks of the hair shaft that occur from protein loss (which then incites moisture loss). So if your hair is stretched 50x its natural threshold, you can try to repair it over time but if it still doesn't resolve all of the issue, don't go back to the excessive moisture treatments. It'll just be time for a trim.

The wheat and silk proteins attract and help retain moisture as well as strengthen and Keratin, reconstructors and the others build.

 

[ebonylocs]

Thanks Aggie and Mstar.

Are you ladies able to recommend any products with wheat protein, or silk protein, or collagen?

Thanks

 

[nymane]

Thanks for the responses! I tried henna yesterday and it was wonderful ...After the treatment I did a flexi rod set and I didn't have one strand of hair in my comb or sink (I don't usually experience much breakage, but I have normal shedding and a couple of broken hairs by the time I'm finished with flexi rod sets). Also, the color is beautiful...I'm so glad I tried it!

 

[remilaku]

I just started henna and I like it. I want to do it in the salon for my clients. How many times in one month can you do it? I did the already mixed one. Surya.

 

[remilaku]

Bumping!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nymane]

I just started henna and I like it. I want to do it in the salon for my clients. How many times in one month can you do it? I did the already mixed one. Surya.

Hey, I've only done it once, but from what I've read you can do it as often as you like (as long as you're use Body Art Quality). I'd just watch out for dryness (which I didn't experience when I did it because I did a moisturizing DC after)

 

[Aggie]

Thanks Aggie and Mstar.

Are you ladies able to recommend any products with wheat protein, or silk protein, or collagen?

Thanks

Wheat proteins are mostly moisturizing proteins and can be found in conditioners such as Mizani Moisturefuse, Kenra Moisturizing Conditioners, etc. Although Mizani Fulfyl is a protein and moisturizing conditioner containing wheat proteins.

Silk protein is also very moisturizing and will also be found in moisturizing and smoothing poos and conditioners like Joico Silk Result line for example.

A great collagen conditioner is Ultra Sheen Duo Tek Protein Treatment and for me, this treatment provided my hair with strength and elasticity.

 

[Aggie]

I just started henna and I like it. I want to do it in the salon for my clients. How many times in one month can you do it? I did the already mixed one. Surya.

I have done them as often as once a week but it was a little too much manipulation for my fine hairs so you can use it every 2-3 weeks if you like but the recommended frequency is 4-6 weeks if you are using it for color deposit especially on the new growth area.

If you are using henna simply for conditioning, ie, 30 minutes, then once a week is safe. Please remember to follow it up with a moisturizing deep conditioner to combat any dryness that may result.

 

[Ozma]

Thanks Aggie and Mstar.

Are you ladies able to recommend any products with wheat protein, or silk protein, or collagen?

Thanks

I am still trying to figure out what my hair needs as far as protein is concerned. I would also like to have some recommendations.

 

[remilaku]

has anybody used surya before? how many times in one month have you used it?

 

[Valerie]

I use henna and protein both and it has strengthened my hair, I tend to henna once a month or every 6 weeks or so.

 

[kooskoos]

I alternate between henna every 2 weeks and Aphogee Keratin 2-minute reconstructor. The only other protein I use is in my leave-in (Elasta QP H-two).

 

[Katherina]

i voted other because i have been using henna consistently for about a year but i have never done a protein treatment... !!! shock and surprise. i have the protein in my cabinet but have never used it. anyway, recently, henna has thickened my strands. but in my earlier hennas, it would only give color. now, i give it longer time to release its dye (but i use an acidic mix. if you use water the dye will begin releasing immediately). i also use lemon juice, which many people have reported as drying (but it works fine for me...not drying, and i have fine 3c and 4a strands). also, it may take 3-4-5 times for the thickening effect to show up. it also depends on how often you henna because it can be a cumulative effect (depending on the amount of dye released, length of time henna is left in hair, etc). sooo, i think you just have to go for it and see what works for you. my hair is definitely thicker now that i use henna though. oh, and i'm natural

 

[jamaraa]

I just started henna and I like it. I want to do it in the salon for my clients. How many times in one month can you do it? I did the already mixed one. Surya.

Let us know how it goes applying it professionally. I've very curious about how henna works in a salon setting.

Normally I do it 1x per month unless I want to build up the color w/ indigo. For most folks, I think you might be able to get away w/ doing it 1-2x per month. Each head is diff, of course, but 2x per month is probably do-able for most folks w/o too much dryness. Some people do it 1x per week, but that's probably too drying.

 

[jamaraa]

Tho henna is not a protein, for some it has proteinlike effects. It's soething that become a permanent part of you hair structure. That said, using a protein treatment every so often is probably good for, most people, except the ones for whom henna has a protein like effect. The only way to know is to do a henna and after some time do a protein treatment. Of course, you should follow up each treatment w/ some serious moisturizing conditioning.

Just don't do the henna and protein treatments too close to each other. I'd put at least 1 wk between them and optimally 2 wks. That way you have time to see what treatment did what and how they work together.

 

[ProdigalDiva]

I agree with Jamaraa... be careful about when you do your normal protein and your henna treatment. I believe a previous poster might have mentioned this, but henna likes dirty hair; the last thing you want to do is wash, protein treat and henna your hair in quick order. You could very easily end up with some pretty dry, brittle hair.

 

[Shadiyah]

I know about henna liking dirty hair but it is recommended that you wash your hair first before applying your henna and that you do it on wet hair and I say on wet hair because it helps for you not to get those lumps and you don't have to use as much henna as you do on dry hair. I have been using henna for years but just learned something new in these last two yrs and that is about body art henna which has made a world of difference to my life. My hair does not like protien so I don't use it except the little I can not get away from in the products I use on my hair. I have been hiding my ends for the last few weeks trying to make it to bsl by the end of this yr, so I did mega tek for a few days this week just to see if it would take it. I am so glad it was only for a few days because my hair so stiff and I put the honey and dc in over night hoping I didn't mess my hair up because it took me a long time to recover from my last mess up 2 yrs ago when I didn't know that protein was my problem all along.
I have been buying the celebration ancient surise because the color content is higher than the other brands of henna and that is what I like most is the redist one. I wash mines out with conditioner and have not problems.

 

[EmeRaldPrinXess]

@ Shadiyah

How much of a red color does the celebration ancient sunrise henna give to your hair? What is your original hair color? A picture of your hair after henna to show the color would be very much appreciated

I know about henna liking dirty hair but it is recommended that you wash your hair first before applying your henna and that you do it on wet hair and I say on wet hair because it helps for you not to get those lumps and you don't have to use as much henna as you do on dry hair. I have been using henna for years but just learned something new in these last two yrs and that is about body art henna which has made a world of difference to my life. My hair does not like protien so I don't use it except the little I can not get away from in the products I use on my hair. I have been hiding my ends for the last few weeks trying to make it to bsl by the end of this yr, so I did mega tek for a few days this week just to see if it would take it. I am so glad it was only for a few days because my hair so stiff and I put the honey and dc in over night hoping I didn't mess my hair up because it took me a long time to recover from my last mess up 2 yrs ago when I didn't know that protein was my problem all along.
I have been buying the celebration ancient surise because the color content is higher than the other brands of henna and that is what I like most is the redist one. I wash mines out with conditioner and have not problems.

 

[Shadiyah]

@ Shadiyah

How much of a red color does the celebration ancient sunrise henna give to your hair? What is your original hair color? A picture of your hair after henna to show the color would be very much appreciated

I am so sorry I can not show a picture of my hair but I am salt and pepper which means my greys get really red and shiny. I want to see if I can find a picture that is close to my color.
http://www.hennaforhair.com/freebooks/hennaforhair.pdf if you look at figure 25 that is very close to what my hair looks like but I have more grey so I have more of the streaks. I love it the more I do it. and I love their henna, I have another brand here that I brought for my mother because what I use is so expensive so I was trying to save money and she don't like her's red she likes it blonde. you can really tell the difference in theirs from what I had been using for yrs. they are top notch.

 

[grow]

i henna twice a week now. i just started doing this a couple of months ago.

i plan to indigo once a month. and have done about 3 treatments of indigo so far.

i stopped using my hardcore protein around my henna.

last week i did a hardcore dudley's drc 28 under the dryer, but had not henna'ed in 2 weeks.

i wouldn't try them together though because my hair needs protein, but is also sensitive to protein.

hhj ladies!

 

[greenandchic]

I henna my hair, but still use protein as needed - not on a hardcore schedule.

 

[MsLi@512]

I replace my hard protein treatments with the henna. The henna for me gives me added strength and conditioning and to do more hard protein would be overkill. My hair would be too hard and dry. But, I don't really time it out on a calendar. I just use it when my hair tells me it needs it.
I do use light protein conditioners though before and after texlaxing. But my hair mainly needs moisture so I focus on that.

 

[nikkibrown]

I wouldn't do both! i use to use protein but now i use henna! both can be very drying to your hair, it might be a over load

 

[bride91501]

This year has truly been a learning experience for me in terms of my hair's tolerance, and affinity even, for protein and protein like treatments.

I henna once/month when I take down my cornrowns. But I also do my version of a heavier PT (really a medium PT) 1 week later right before I go back into my PS. My hair is doing well.

Everyone's head of hair is different....

 

[afrofaithful]

I have only been using henna for about four months. I started using it so I can eliminate most synthetic/unnatural products from my regimen. I use to use aphogee 2 step, but I feel I no longer need a hard protein with henna. I do use AOGPB one week and AOHSR the other. I have never done henna on dry hair though, I will today because I washed my hair a few days ago because it felt grimy. I feel like it's really up to your hair whether you'll need protein or not. In my case, I think it's a great substitute for hard proteins.

 

[beloved1bx]

i really needed to see this thread. I've done a henna or a henna gloss a few times over the last couples of months thinking that it was similar to a protein treatment, so when I ran out of my reconstructor i wasn't in a rush to restock. After reading through this I did a hard protein treatment aphogee 2-step since the last time i did one was during the summer and i'm getting a touch-up on fri. My hair feels good. Somehow it seems to be retaining moisture better and therefore feels a little smoother. My hair loves protein so it was silly of me to slack off on it.

 

[discodumpling]

My fine hair needs both to thrive. Henna every 4-6 weeks and some sort of homemade protein treatment every 2-3. I just did an egg treatment which is a medium to heavy protein treat for my hair and it feels strong and moisturized.