Going Modest- Anyone thinking Modest?

[Maracujá]

This thread is very timely. I've been studying this topic myself as I love fashion and found an interesting blog on it, here is the link: http://homeliving.blogspot.be/search?q=modesty+matters. Be sure to read the one on 'The deconstruction of women's clothing', it was an eye opener. Like someone mentioned here, I've always been selective regarding my clothing, I just need to be even more selective considering the fact that I occasionally let a cleavage pass by. A good sermon on this is Voddie Baucham's sermon on Biblical Womanhood, it can be found on youtube.

 

[dicapr]

I have been meditating and asking for guidance on modesty. I believe the Lord has revealed some things to me about modesty, what it is, and how he wants me to practice it. For me modesty is about my attitude, being humble, and putting my need to be heard secondary to what he has put in my path. For me it isn't about how long my skirt is or how covered I need to be. It is about the state of my heart. If ones heart, mind, and attitude are not focused on service to God first and mankind second you cannot achieve modesty no matter how much you cover your skin. I've seen first hand how someone who practiced outward modesty can have all the drapings of modesty torn away by a sour and self serving attitude. What is in our heart will eventually outshine whatever we have on the outside and become our adornment. Now I'm not saying that we should not have any standards of dress as Christian women. But I do believe that until we adopt the humble and meek attitude that Christians should possess what we do on the outside does not matter.

 

[felic1]

dicapr I think your post made a good statement. I have encountered many women that tend to project that they are holier than others. Their outfits are extravagant looking as well as expensive. They make a habit at turning up their nose at others. They collude to not speak to others. While we do need a meek and quiet spirit, I believe that we can look feminine without revealing too much skin to worship. I have some modern dresses. These dresses have a rounded band that encircles the neck. Because it does not cover all of the shoulder, I wear dresses like this with a shrug. Anything sleeveless that I might consider for church has to have a jacket or it won't be worn or purchased. It seems that many christian ladies wear what looks good but it too revealing to be appropriate for worship. Thanks for reading! I think this thread is a great idea!!

 

[FemmeFatale]

I remember that thread. I was one of the 'trouble makers' This dress truly is too clingy. It shows ever curve of her body. Now if this is for her husband in a private setting, fine. But all eyes of men will looking at her body. Her hair is gorgeous though

See now I wouldn't wear that to church but to dinner or the like with my honey absolutely

 

[Galadriel]

I've been wanting to share my thoughts on this.

I believe in modesty, and I think it's a great thing. My clothing choices have changed along with my lifestyle. What I wore as a single girl in her 20's (and super skinny) isn't the same thing I'm wearing now as a married mom, who has to eat healthy and pay my dues at the gym

I don't wear low-cut tops, short-shorts, mini skirts, tube tops, bikinis, or revealing clothing.

With that said, I do believe God made our bodies beautiful, and part of feminine appeal is the lovely shape and form of a woman. I think dresses that accentuate curves are very pretty and feminine, as well as colors and cuts that compliment our skin tones and body shapes.

I wear makeup for outings, date nights, special occasions, but in day-to-day life as a busy mom, I'm lucky to brush my hair I don't think wearing makeup is immodest, but I do think it can be tacky when applied in an over-exaggerated manner.

I wear jewelry when I remember to, or when dressing up for a date/special occasion. Sometimes I forget to put on my wedding ring on a regular day (I do a lot of dishes and diaper changing). I like wearing jewelry, and don't see it as detracting from modesty *unless* I'm trying to wear/use jewelry as a form of boasting or flashiness.

I understand that for some women, makeup and jewelry could be seen as immodest, and I respect that. However, *for me,* I believe that in moderation, these are common and normal adornments.

I am a hair chameleon. I own 4-5 wigs of different styles and lengths, and I go between natural styles and flat ironing. I love wearing my hair in different styles. If and when I attend a traditional Catholic church that does the old Latin Mass, I will wear a veil (aka mantilla) and dress according to the dress code.

I do believe the time, place, body shape, and age play roles in modesty. Something a skinny girl with small boobs can get away with wearing, just won't work with a curvy, full-chested woman. What I wear to church isn't what I'd wear to a date, what I wear to a picnic isn't what I'd wear to a business meeting, and what I'd wear alone with my husband is something I would NOT wear in public I believe these should be taken into consideration when judging modesty.

I also believe modesty is a frame of mind and behavior. So this means I don't indulge in dirty jokes or suggestive language with friends and associates (esp. male ones). I don't watch pornography--and this, by the way, is a HUGE problem with a lot of Christian guys. They complain about modesty and that your skirt isn't to the floor, but then will sit and watch porn. Hypocritical.

 

[blazingthru]

I agree with all of the post to some degree, I am not judging anyone, I believe that everyone is on different levels in their walk with God and some will come to certain conviction at different stages in their lives.

But I also believe we each should examine for ourselves what is the message that God is speaking to us regarding our bodies and why he is was so specific about what articles certain characters in the bible were to wear and why. Evidently, it is important to him what we wear.

I don't think the "ME" should have the stronger say because a christian woman puts 'me' in the back and puts God first and foremost. I strongly think that everything special about our bodies, legs, arms, belly etc., should only be for our husbands review and no one else. I will say this, when I was first with my husband I was thin and beautiful because we are all beautiful and so didn't worry about my body but I did when certain woman, who had larger breast and were more curvy then me, spoke with my husband let alone want to dance with him that irked me badly, but that is normal life, but I hated it. I hated when woman would walk by with their business hanging out and he struggle not to look at them. Its not like i didn't look at those fine men with the muscle shirts and tight pants and not tight but tight in the crotch. I'm a married woman why would I want to see someone else s husband stuff let alone looking when I am already taken. Of course then I didn't see much wrong with it, except when my husband did it.

When I am covered men treat me differently, they are more wiling to hold the door, pick up and just simply go out of their way to help me. I am going to test this out more thoroughly and get back. Still don't have what I need to fully jump in yet, but moving in that direction.

 

[JaneBond007]

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[dicapr]

I don't think that showing too much and tempting men is the issue of confusion (most of us agree) but it's in determining that the use of adornment possibly means that one might be on a lesser level in their walk with G-d. It shouldn't be implied. Each one do what she feels is right but it's certainly not indicative of deeper spirituality. Like several others have mentioned, it depends upon intent.

I've been studying modesty due to this thread. It's interesting that it is often presented as a way to prevent lust but most verses mentioning modesty deal with the spirit and the mindset of a modest person. I'm beginning to think modest dress is more for the individual to focus on develop the qualities of a modest spirit and less about preventing temptation. People use all types of physical distractors to camouflage what they are lacking internally. By taking the focus off what we use visually to distract from our short comings we are forced to deal with the internal struggle.

 

[Laela]

Just wanted to share my 2-cents on this topic. The Word of God is a double-edged sword...
God said whom He sets Free is Free indeed (John 8:36). What does that mean to you?
For a Child of God, if anything we do displeases Our Father, He will let us know through Conviction of the Heart
by the Holy Spirit.
Only that person and God knows when that happens, and repentance takes care of that. (Acts 2:37-39)

Of course modesty covers everything, not just clothing. Food, drink, etc.

Wanted to share this breakdown from GotQuestions
- because it underscores what many in this thread have said: it's a matter of the heart.
That said, from the abundance of the Heart, the mouth always speaks.
_______________________________________________

Question: "What does it mean to dress modestly?"

Answer: In describing the mode of dress appropriate for women in church, the apostle Paul
exhorts them to dress “modestly” with “decency and propriety” then goes on to contrast immodest
dress with the good deeds which are appropriate for those who profess to be true worshipers of God
(1 Timothy 2:9–10). While the Bible only specifically addresses the need
for women to dress modestly, the same teaching would apply to men in principle.
Both men and women should bring glory to God in their manner of dress.

Modesty in the way we dress is not just for church; it is to be the standard for all Christians at all times.
The key to understanding what constitutes modesty in dress is to examine the attitudes and intents of the heart.
Those whose hearts are inclined toward God will make every effort to dress modestly, decently, and appropriately.
Those whose hearts are inclined toward self will dress in a manner designed to draw attention to themselves with
little or no regard for the consequences to themselves or others.

A godly woman endeavors to do everything with a “God-ward” perspective. She knows that God wants His people
to be concerned for His glory and the spiritual state of their brothers and sisters in Christ.
If a woman professes to be a Christian yet she dresses in a way that will unduly draw attention to her body,
she is a poor witness of the One who bought her soul by dying for her on the cross. She is forgetting that her body
has been redeemed by Christ and is now the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19–20).
She is telling the world that she determines her own worth on a purely physical basis and that her attractiveness
depends on how much of her body she reveals to them. Further, by dressing in an immodest fashion, displaying
her body for men to lust after, she causes her brothers in Christ to sin, something condemned by God (Matthew 5:27–29).
Proverbs 7:10 mentions a woman “dressed like a prostitute and with crafty intent”—
here, the woman’s heart condition is displayed by her manner of dress.

The Scripture says that we are to dress modestly, but what exactly does that mean in modern society?
Does a woman have to be covered from head to toe? There are cults and religions in the world that demand this of women.
But is that the biblical meaning of modesty? Again, we have to go back to the matter of the attitudes of the heart.
If a woman’s heart is inclined toward godliness, she will wear clothing that is neither provocative nor revealing in public,
clothing that does not reflect negatively upon her personal testimony as a child of God. Everyone else in her circle may be dressing immodestly, but she resists the temptation to go along with the crowd. She avoids clothing designed to draw attention to her body and cause men to lust, for she is wise enough to know that type of attention only cheapens her. The idea of causing men to sin against God because of her dress is abhorrent to her because she seeks to love and honor God and wants others to do the same.

Modesty in dress reveals a modesty and godliness of the heart, attitudes that should be the desire of all women
(and men) who live to please and honor God.

_______________
I speak to myself, as I speak to you.

 

[dicapr]

Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.

 

[JaneBond007]

Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.

It does in the catholic bible in the way of temptation to sin. The admonition is on all humans with the understanding that, according to human nature and design, lust operates a certain way from male to female. I can't tell protestants what is in their bibles, but I do know what is in the catholic bible and teaching, directly from the apostles, given directly by Jesus, backed by 4,000 years of Hebraic teachings. I don't want to give anyone the impression that our Church does not see the dangers in immodest dress and will only post on this in the Catholic Random Thoughts. This is to avoid confusion.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

Interesting. But the bible does not support that women who are immodest cause men to commit sin. The bible is quite clear that sins come from within us. No one forces us to commit sin. The bible teaches us that a man must look at a woman TO lust to commit adultery in his heart. That means the intent to lust was a forgone conclusion. There is a difference in man or woman finding themselves in a situation where they are privy to an attractive person in a state of immodesty and willingly going to the strip club or viewing pornography. The intent to lust must be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't mindful of the effect our clothing choices have on the opposite sex- but the idea that our clothing choices cause someone to sin isn't biblical.

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea." Mark 9:42

"...but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6

"Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way." Rom 14:13

Here is a link to several other Bible verses on one person causing another to stumble: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Causing-Others-To-Stumble

Let's not be coy that wearing something revealing and tight can invoke a certain "feeling" in a man. Men are wired differently than we are. Yes, ultimately the man has to stop the thought from bearing the fruit of lust, but if he never saw the image in the first place, he wouldn't have had to fight against the temptation to lust. The Bible is clear that one person can cause another to stumble. IMO, that includes wearing provocative clothing that induces lust.

 

[dicapr]

JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought. That being said my response was actually to Laela. I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought. That being said my response was actually to Laela. I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.

I agree that it is up to the individual to resist, but the person dressing inappropriately is also committing a sin.

 

[dicapr]

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea." Mark 9:42

"...but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." Matt 18:6

"Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way." Rom 14:13

Here is a link to several other Bible verses on one person causing another to stumble: http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Causing-Others-To-Stumble

Let's not be coy that wearing something revealing and tight can invoke a certain "feeling" in a man. Men are wired differently than we are. Yes, ultimately the man has to stop the thought from bearing the fruit of lust, but if he never saw the image in the first place, he wouldn't have had to fight against the temptation to lust. The Bible is clear that one person can cause another to stumble. IMO, that includes wearing provocative clothing that induces lust.

But we again are talking intent. Of course if I dress in a way to try cause a man to lust I will be judged on my intentions. But I would not have caused him to sin. My sin would be remain whether the man feel into lust or not. It is impossible for me dress in a manner that would never cause any man to lust after me. So for me to be held to a standard to not causing a man to lust by my dress is unreasonable-I would be guilty of sin no matter what I did. There is even a group of men who like to fanaticize about covered women and what is underneath their clothes. We as Christian women should dress not to entice, but if lust does come it isn't our fault. We are judged on our intentions not others reactions.

 

[Laela]

That is a very valid point, and thanks for making a note of it. The Holy Spirit does the convicting, no human can.

I agree that it is up to the individual to resist, but the person dressing inappropriately is also committing a sin.

 

[JaneBond007]

@JaneBond007 I think you got the wrong impression and I apologize if I offended you. Your view points are valid and fruit for thought. That being said my response was actually to @Laela. I do believe that it is our duty to not try and be a stumbling block for our brothers in Christ. So while someone can willingly or unwillingly cause temptation they do not cause sin as I understand the bible. We should not dress in a way to cause temptation, but lust, like all other sins is something the individual is responsible to resist.

I'm not offended. It's just that this is one of those situations in which I won't cross the religious lines when I see there is a theological difference. I can only attest to the Catholic Church and do not wish to paint a different picture of our faith. So, I'll just withdraw comments.

 

[dicapr]

I'll have to continue with my research and come back with the scriptures to support this. But what comes to mind is the fact that the Bible states that God blinks in our ignorance. When we sin and we are unaware that our actions are sin to God we are not held accountable for that sin. It is only after we know we are made aware that it is sin that it is charged to us. I have no idea what causes lust in each individual man or even if I am the type of woman he would be attracted to. All I can do is dress in a way in which I believe is not promoting myself in an overtly sexual manner. However, if a man still finds it in his heart to lust after me there is nothing I can do to prevent or control the sin that he has let rule his life. Because lets be truthful, men do not automatically lust because they see a body part.

If I truly believed that I was sinning simply because a man saw a part of my body and lusted after me I would go into a deep depression. During me youth I had to deal with men who objectified my body even though I did my best to dress in a modest manner. I had a complex and felt shame for the simple fact that I had a very feminine body shape. It wasn't until I understood that the sin and shame belonged to those older men lusting after a teenage girl that I had peace. Now some of the ideas in this thread would once again place the shame and burden of men's lust on women even though she may be doing her best to present herself as a modest women. I would hate for another young woman to be ashamed of her natural curvy body or spend time and energy trying to erase her God given figure.

 

[blazingthru]

I thought this was a great article

6 Marks of Biblical Modesty:
How God Brings Sexy Back

Friday, August 16, 2013 | Written by Luke Gilkerson
Modesty is a controversial topic, especially when you throw God into the mix. For some, they simply cannot fathom, amidst all the great injustices in the world, that God actually cares if a girl wears skin-tight pants with the word “Juicy” written on them.

But in the end, it is the Word of God that should drive our discussions about modesty. What has God revealed about it?

First and foremost, a biblical definition of modesty must focus on the heart. Modesty is primarily about our motivations. In addition, modest dress is also about discernment, having an awareness of others and our environment.

6 Marks of Biblical Modesty

Modern Modesty Controversies
In a recent conversation, a woman I spoke with seemed deeply offended when I suggested a woman’s manner of dress could tempt a man to lust. She wasn’t denying the claim that men lust after women, but she was emphatic that women are not to blame for a man’s lustful thoughts and actions.

She’s right, of course. A person is never guilty of another person’s sin.

This woman’s protest is, in part, motivated by a desire to fight various rape myths in our culture. When a girl dresses scantily, goes to a college party, gets drunk, makes out with a dozen guys, and then is raped, for some there is a tendency to say, “Well, she was just asking for it.” This kind of victim blaming, sadly, leads some to temper any compassion for such women when they are abused.

Let’s be clear: victims of rape are not guilty of their rape. The girl who walks across campus at 2 a.m. and gets assaulted is not to blame for the crime committed against her. Similarly, victims of another’s lust do not thereby mean a woman is guilty of lust. She should never be made to account for another person’s sin.

Where then does modesty fit into the Christian ethic?

Paul on Modesty: 1 Timothy 2:8-10
“I desire…that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.“

Christian women should concern themselves with modesty because the Bible does. This text is a primary example.

For the purposes of this article, I am writing about women because Paul is writing about women in these verses. I recognize that men should also embrace modesty.

1. Modesty is not anti-pretty
At the outset, we should take note that Paul is not anti-adornment. The force of his statement is positive: “women should adorn themselves.” These are not the words of an anti-fashion prude. The same word “adorn” is used to speak of a bride beautifying herself for her husband (Revelation 21:2). It is a term that expresses being ornamented, well-kempt, and put in order.

The question for Paul isn’t about whether a woman should ornament her body, but how.

2. Modesty is about who you worship
In the context, Paul is talking about how women should prepare themselves for gathering at church. Women are commanded to adorn themselves in a way that is fitting for worship. If they “profess godliness”—that is, they desire to show God honor and reverence—how should they dress?

Paul puts his finger on the trigger of the problem. In Ephesus, the original destination of this letter, the cultural elite were known for their gaudy and extravagant wardrobes, their elaborate hair styles, and their expensive clothing that communicated extraordinary wealth. Paul paints a picture of this for the Ephesians Christians and says, “Don’t mimic that. When you come to church, come dressed in a way that shows you desire to the attention to be on God, not yourself.”

A person’s manner of dress, or even their preoccupation with clothing itself (Matthew 6:28-30), is often indicative of a heart that loves self more than God.

3. Modesty is about behavior and attitude, not just clothing
When Paul says that women should wear “respectable apparel,” the term “apparel” is probably translated too narrowly: it is a term that encompasses not just clothing, but one’s whole demeanor, attitude, and actions.

Ultimately, what should adorn a woman is not just clothing but “good works.” As Christians, we are being remade by God for good works (Ephesians 2:10). Christ died so that we might be zealous for good works (Titus 2:14). Women should seek to dress their lives in works that do good to others, marked with godly love.

This means modesty is not simply about what we wear, but how we act, how we communicate, and how relate to others.

4. Modesty shows sensitivity to sin
In this text Paul says a woman’s apparel should be worn with “modesty.” Other translation opt for the word “decency.” The King James Version translates this “shamefacedness,” which gets more to the heart of the word.

It is talking about a demeanor of reverence, showing respect to oneself and a regard for others. It even carries the connotation of “bashful.” Connected to the term “shame,” the word implies the idea of grief over sin that is in the world—that a woman would be so sensitive to sin, knowing that sin is offensive to God, that she would never come close to trying to provoke it in others.

No, a woman is not guilty of a man’s lust if she dresses with the intention to allure him. Let him account for his sins. But she is guilty of a lack of shamefacedness, for treating sin lightly. A heart of modesty is motivated by a love for one’s fellow man.

5. Modesty involves cultural discretion
Paul didn’t just paint broad strokes when talking about modesty; he gave specifics. He said braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire were out of place for a truly modest woman.

Some knowledge of Roman culture is helpful for understanding what Paul is saying. In Paul’s day, Greek hairstyles for women were fairly simple: hair was parted in the middle and pinned in the back. But a culture change was sweeping the region. Women in the imperial household were wearing their hair with elaborate curls and braids, covered in expensive ornaments. The elite throughout the empire copied this style.

For Paul, the appearance of braids and ornaments was more about what the fashion communicated. They carried connotations of imperial luxury and conjured up images of notoriously immoral Empresses like Valeria Messalina and Poppeaea Sabina, ancient equivalents of Cosmopolitan cover girls.

The poet Juvenal, a contemporary of Paul, gives a vivid description of this cultural trend:

“There is nothing that a woman will not permit herself to do. Nothing that she deems shameful. And when she encircles her neck with green emeralds and fastens huge pearls to her elongated ears, so important is the business of beautification. So numerous are the tiers and stories piled one another on her head that she pays no attention to her own husband.”

Similarly, the philosopher Philo gives a description of a prostitute in his writing called “The Sacrifices of Cain and Abel”:

“A prostitute is often described as having hair dressed in elaborate braids, her eyes with pencil lines, her eyebrows smothered in paint and her expensive clothes embroidered lavishly with flowers and bracelets and necklaces of gold and jewels hanging all over her.”

Paul’s description of immodest dress conjured a picture of someone preoccupied with appearance, fashion, luxury, and sexual prowess. Similarly, modern modesty standards are not about arbitrary rules of how much skin is shown or how low-cut something is, but about the messages and values our clothing communicates.

6. Modesty is about true freedom, not repression
More often than not, modesty standards are seen as repressive, arbitrary rules that restrict a woman’s creativity and freedom. But when modesty is motivated from the heart, the exact opposite is true.

Paul says women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel with “self-control.” This might be better understood as “self-mastery,” being of sound mind or sober, being in control of one’s impulses and appetites. In extra-biblical literature, this word has sexual nuances: being able to totally control your romantic and erotic desires.

Immodesty is often, though not always, a kind of slavery. A woman may be enslaved by her desire to attract a man. She might define her worth by her fashion sense, her sex appeal, her image, her bust size, her weight, or the brand names she wears. This kind of slavery is widespread because sin impacts us all, and in today’s sexually charged, media-saturated culture, many women fall prey to this kind of slavery.

But as Christians we are free from the slavery of sin because we are united to Christ. Paul exhorts us to live out this freedom: “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions” (Romans 6:12). When it comes to modest dress, we can follow Paul’s next statement quite literally: Do not present the members of your body to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present your members to God as instruments for righteousness (v.13). Paul wants Christian woman to have self-mastery in their wardrobe choices, to be totally free from worldly ways of defining worth, beauty, and sexiness.

 

[blazingthru]

Ironically, it is not just those who are scantily dressed that are enslaved, but even those who pride themselves on their modesty. “Modest is hottest,” they say, unaware that in their own hearts, they are still enslaved to a preoccupation with their physical image, still defining their worth by their outward adornment.

Defining Modesty
Taken together, these aspects of modesty help to give us a working definition. Modesty is a respectable manner of adorning one’s body and carrying oneself, born out of a freedom from a worldly definition of beauty and worth, and motivated by a hatred of sin and a desire to draw attention to God.

When it comes to the subject of modest clothing, the first question we should ask ourselves is: What am I trying to accomplish by what I wear?

 

[felic1]

blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone. I do have hot flashes and cannot wear turtlenecks. I try to cover up.

 

[Shimmie]

@blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone.

I do have hot flashes and cannot wear turtlenecks. I try to cover up.

felic1

I smiled when I read the bolded regarding turtlenecks (but not about the hot flashes - that's has to be very challenging).

I smiled because I cannot wear turtlenecks either; however for me it's because I have a round face and turtlenecks draw attention to it making me look all the more rounder with chipmunk apple cheeks.

I fair better with a mock-turtle or a regular (still modest) neckline in a blouse, shirt, sweater or dress.

 

[blazingthru]

blazingthru These points are good. I think my clothes are modest. Perhaps what I believe are modest and convenient for me may be a stumbling block to others. I own and wear jogging suits because they are easy and comfortable. I can run errands in them with walking shoes with ease. I have a lot of responsibilities as a divorced parent and need to be comfortable so I can get done. I also have some arthritis and do not wear heels a lot. It is just preposterous to worry that someone is grumbling about your shoes and outfits. I cannot imagine that men in the church are even checking me out. This is because I certainly am not checking them out. I have a bust and wear supportive foundation. I spend money on these to hold myself up well. I cant be troubled that someone is going to be looking at my chest. I do not have the side or circumference of my breasts exposed to anyone. I do have hot flashes and cannot wear turtlenecks. I try to cover up.

Hi felic1, I don't think you have to wear turtle necks at all if you don't want too, when you put your blouse, shirt or whatever on look in the mirror bend over if you can see your breast your belly all the way down its to low. I have tee shirts, I got them at AC made by jockey they have a high front so I can wear them under certain clothes.

I was talking to my friend and she said now that you mention it I notice a man was trying to look down my shirt when I bend over and I never notice it before she said she started wearing camies. We had a great conversation but not as long as I would have like. Her question was if I am going to wear all that covering up how am I going to attract a man, ha there in lines where her heart was in terms of dressing.

I yelled ha there in lies the problem, that is the one thing I want to avoid, I really want a man to get to know me for me. I can't be anyone else and I tried that before and I wouldn't want a man to be interested in me for my body because as soon as some woman walks by revealing all that she has his mind will be focused on that and he'll be moving along. where as as he gets to know and love me other woman may seem trashy to him revealing all their business, I don't know, I know that if I got him showing sexy I will lose him for the same reason.

 

[ToyToy]

This will be an unpopular post.

I don't believe that dressing 'modestly' will get me any closer to holiness. That starts in my heart. I also don't believe that God is interested in how I dress as much as He is interested in whether or not I will fulfil the purpose He has set for me in life. The way I dress I check with my spirit. If within my spirit I have a conviction that the item of clothing I'm about to buy or wear is inappropriate, I won't buy or wear it. But that's down to my personal conviction. I don't impose that on other people, neither am I interested in how others dress themselves. I also don't assume that, because a woman (or man) isn't dressed in what some might call a 'modest manner', they don't have a personal and active relationship with God.

I'm not saying, let it all hang out, but I will not actively seek out clothing that does not suit me and makes me feel uncomfortable.

Modesty is very subjective. I once asked my mum why she wore ill-fitting bras, and she said the other bras (i.e. the right sized bras) made her breasts 'stand up too much'. To her, they made her look immodest. And my mother is quite large breasted. I am a 32G myself, and I spend good money on good bras that keep my breasts exactly where they should be.

To some a pair of skinny jeans might be ok. To others they are immodest. To some, a sleeveless shirt (however lose fitting) is immodest. To others, it's not. It's subject to a person's background (usually culturally as well).

To some denominations wearing jewellery is immodest. I don't wear jewellery myself, but that's because I don't like or get it. However my modestly dressing mother *loves* jewellery and wouldn't leave the house without at least a pair of earrings and a watch. Does this make her any less modest?

To some wearing makeup is an abomination. Why try alter the way the good God made you? But that just opens another can of worms. Shall I stop doing my hair, because the good Lord gave me kinky hair, and therefore I'm just going to leave it as is? And what about the 'modestly dressed' women with weaves and wigs? Are they still modest, since their skirts are the 'right' length? Or are they leading men to sin with their long flowing (fake) hair?

I don't wear jewellery but I love my make up. I'm a makeup and skincare junkie. No, I don't look like a parrot. Neither do I look like I just jumped out of a YouTube video. I simply look (and feel) nice.

I also wanted to address the issue about leading men to sin. First - everyone is responsible for their own salvation and therefore responsible for their own sin. (That's been addressed already.)
I could wear a sack for a top, and with my boobs, someone might still find me attractive and sin in his heart. That's not my problem. That's the guy's problem.

The other thing is about attracting a partner. I've had this discussion with many men (of all walks of life), and they have all said the same thing. Men are visual (as are women). I wouldn't find a guy in an oversized suit attractive, even if that's what he thinks is modest. I don't need them wearing tight t-shirts and jeans - just dress for your shape and feel confident in that.

Finally, what I'm really trying to say is to let your conviction lead you. I'll repeat what I said earlier - God is much more interested in whether I fulfil my purpose in life than whether or not I decide to wear skinny jeans.

That said, if dressing in whatever you decide is modest is what will give you peace, then go for it. As long as you don't judge others that don't. Salvation is personal, and each is responsible for their own.

 

[felic1]

ToyToy I think that your post is nice and true. It is important to follow your convictions. I buy things that are not too revealing and I think are appropriate to wear outside of the home and to service. People with lustful thoughts have a problem. The people being lusted after are not the ones in sin. Also, lust starts in the heart. I occasionally wear makeup and jewelry. I wear more makeup when it is cold. I think that your post was well written

 

[blazingthru]

Catholic and Modesty

http://www.catholicmodesty.com/MarylikeStandardsofModestyinDress.html
http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-blessed-virgins-guide-to-catholic-modesty
http://saintsworks.net/Modesty and Purity.htm
http://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A005_Fashion.htm

Baptist
http://www.bpnews.net/14406/christian-women-have-obligation-to-dress-modestly-mary-mohler-says
http://thebaptistvoice.com/categories/student-ministry/does-god-care-what-we-wear
http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/current-events/op-ed-blog/26523-is-modest-really-hottest

http://www.theapostolicwayupcff.com/page/holiness_12744

SDA

www.sistersinskirts.com

www.RemnantRaiment.com

http://www.MovingTowardModesty.com

http://www.CoveredWithChrist.com

http://www.TheConsecratedCloset.com (for those just beginning to study modesty)

 

[CoilyFields]

ToyToy

I agree with your whole post.
Modesty begins in the heart and extends outward. What may be modest to one is immodest to another. Everyone's at different levels of maturity in Christ as well and so will learn how to listen to the holy spirit concerning their clothing.

I've recently had to alter my clothing at church because I am now doing praise and worship. What I think appropriate to wear if I'm going to be before the people and moving a lot is different for me then when I'm just in the pews. For example now I have to think about what's my clothing will look like if I lift my hands all the way up to the sky. Or if I would normally wear a pair of skinny jeans a long-ish shirt and heels, I wouldn't wear that leading praise and worship.

For the ladies who are married have you and your husband ever disagreed on what modest is? What happens if you disagree?

 

[dicapr]

I definitely think that what is modest can change depending on the environment and activity and even the fabric of the outfit. I will wear a dress made of a heavier fabric shorter than and dress of a flimsy more "feminine" fabric because for me the lighter fabrics tend to ride up more than the heavier fabric.

Besides covering the 3 "b"s-butt, boobs, and belly I don't have any hard and fast rules about what should be covered because there are none in the bible. While I can see where wearing long skirts and long sleeves are modest I can't say I believe wearing short sleeves is immodest. I've never heard of sexy elbows before so I feel showing those are ok.

 

[blazingthru]

Dressing Up or Down: the Testimony of an Ex-Model

by Gwen Shorter

What happens when high fashion meets the High King of Heaven?


The streets of New York City, with their hustle, bustle, bright lights, and millions of people, were the place to be! "How exciting!", I thought to myself, as I hurried from one appointment to another, swinging my portfolio. I was a model in the fashion capital of the world, and dressing up or down was highly competitive.

Models set the standards for what most women call beauty. On television, in the magazines, newspapers, shows, etc., there used to be set styles. Anyone can put clothes on, but models must put it all together to attract and alarm the senses. They must sell clothes and themselves. And there I was, right in the middle of it all. I knew the power of a fashionable, well-dressed woman, and I wanted to use that power to help me climb the show business ladder.

In those days I wore micro mini skirts, pants and form-fitting sweaters, shorts, and anything else I wanted to help draw attention. "You can look, but don't touch!"--that was my motto.

And I loved my shoes! Every time I bought a new dress I had to buy a new pair of shoes. My heart would actually speed up with the excitement of just looking at a pair of fancy shoes. I just knew they were made for me--just my style! I would deny myself food, if necessary, to buy what I wanted to dress up or down.

My manicure and pedicure were always polished to perfection in order to keep up with my "beauty." I had jars, bottles, and tubes of all sorts of concoctions. Between facial masques, moisterizers, toners, foundations, eye shadow, pencil liner and brush, lipstick and lip gloss, body powder and face powder, perfume, polish for the nails, polish remover, files, expensive hairdos, false eye lashes, leg shaving paraphernalia, etc., etc., I spent hundreds of dollars just to keep myself "together."

Dressing up was not complete without my jewelry. To my eyes, those precious trinkets and ornaments of gold and silver made any outfit look exquisite. My jewelry box overflowed with all kinds of earrings, necklaces, bracelets, brooches, and rings. To be honest, I worshiped jewelry! I felt naked without it--and besides, it made me look good whether I dressed up or down!

rule

Perfect?

Always in the mirror I was checking this and checking that--everything had to be just perfect. My everyday ritual of pampering and primping took about two hours of time before I was ready to face the public. When I emerged to meet the public eye, I would get those whistles, cat calls, and turn-around looks from men. I would appear not to hear or even see them. My motto was "Look, but don't touch."

To be honest, I worshiped jewelry! I felt naked without it.

The first argument I had with my husband, Rick (before we were married), was over the mini skirts and low cuts I wore. I flatly told him if he didn't like it, "find someone else," and I meant it. I had no intention of changing, and he never brought up the subject again. Nobody was changing me! And besides--change to what? I only knew one way--my way of dressing up or down.

As a model in the early 1970s with one of the top black modeling agencies in New York City, my fee was $60 an hour, $30 an hour to try on the clothes and have them fitted. There is hardly anything in the world that fosters pride and vanity more than being in front of a camera!

rule

The "Max" Factor

Make-up was just about the most important factor in my so-called beauty. It was not unusual for me to spend $40 to $50 for make-up regularly. Most of the make-up focused on the eyes. A determined effort goes into making the eyes as seductive and glamorous as possible. Much skill and precision is employed to make the result appear "natural," but everyone knows the naked truth. The idea is to make it appear that your eyes are big, your cheek bones high, your nose thin, your lips thin, your cheeks aglow with rosiness (a false look of health), your eyebrows thin and haughty-looking. This fosters vanity, pride and self-deception. And the Bible says that those who love or make a lie will be outside the gates of the city (Rev 22:15).

Make-up is meant to attract. And just what it attracts is not always desirable. Many times in my career as a model, actress, and nightclub singer, I would not take off my make-up for days at a time. I dreaded facing the truth of what I really looked like. So I know from experience that make-up subtly builds up a feeling of insecurity or makes a bad case of insecurity worse. However, it is supposed to do just the opposite: make you feel good about yourself. It doesn't work, but you pretend it does anyway. I saw the phony it had made of me. I was already out on that limb--and didn't know how to get back. Will I be accepted without my make-up? This was a big question in my mind.

rule

Clear Lives

As Christians, our lives should be as clear as crystal. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. Our appearance--hair, face, style of dress and shoes--should speak of plainness and natural simplicity in beauty. After becoming a Christian and stripping myself of all jewelry (a ring on almost every finger, pins, pierced earrings, bracelets, necklaces) and arched eyebrows, nail polish, make-up, I literally had to get used to the "new" me all over again.

It was a battle with self all the way. Only through Christ was I able to overcome this obsession for worldly things. Ellen G. White was right: "The life of nine tenths of those who are devotees of fashion is a living lie. Deception, fraud, is their daily practice; for they wish to appear that which they are not" (Messages to Young People, p. 359). The most important thing to be remembered about wearing make-up, jewelry, or anything to attract attention to self is that people do it to make "self" appear to be that which it is not! It is like an "enemy in the camp."

rule

Being a Christian

As Christians, our lives should be as clear as crystal. We have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

So you want to be a Christian? Certain things work to help you and certain things work against you. You will never, ever overcome pride and vanity unless you rid yourself absolutely of all these "enemies in the camp." Make-up is like a bad seed in good soil: it will bring forth its fruit, and you won't like the harvest. Resolutely decide by God's grace to have nothing to do with these enemies, and you'll really begin to accept yourself just as God made you! In this Christian warfare we need all the help we can get, without throwing the door wide open and inviting the enemy in!

 

[blazingthru]

Here are twelve reasons why wearing make-up and jewelry is not in harmony with the consecrated Christian life:

It's a waste of money.
It fosters pride and vanity in the heart.
It destroys simplicity and modesty of demeanor and appearance.
It covers your natural beauty--as God made you.
It develops feelings of insecurity (you think you don't look your "best" without it).
It's a waste of time (making-up). Time (every minute) is a talent from God.
It will force you into associations which are frivolous and unChristlike.
It is unhealthful to clog the pores and risk damaging the eyes with these dangerous chemicals and dyes.
Make-up and jewelry are meant to attract, therefore you might attract--you know what.
It's a lie, and Satan is the father of lies.
It destroys love of eternal realities.
Your heavenly Father doesn't like it.
rule

Jesus Made the Difference

Meeting Jesus was like a miracle. Everything I ever wanted in life--love, acceptance, security, and peace of mind--I found in Him. I did not have to change for Jesus, but His love changed me! I did not know I could have a personal experience with my Savior. I did not know He loved me so much--as if I were the only one in the whole wide world. I did not know Jesus was soon coming back to His earth again.

When I learned these things, no one had to tell me, "take off your make-up, jewelry, and immodest clothes." When I looked in the mirror after I surrendered my life to Jesus, I didn't look the same to myself. What I had thought was so beautiful looked ugly, phony, pretentious, and proud! I was like one of the proud daughters of Zion described by the prophet Isaiah in Isa. 3:l6-26.

rule

Shedding

No one had to tell me jewelry was inappropriate for the humble follower of Jesus. When I read those Bible texts on jewelry, I began shedding all my little precious idols from head to toe. What a relief! Nothing between my Saviour and me! "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works" (1 Tim 2:9, 10).

When I looked in the mirror after I surrendered my life to Jesus, I didn't look the same to myself. What I had thought was so beautiful looked ugly, phony, pretentious, and proud!

"Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price" (1 Pet 3:3, 4).

No one had to tell me to get rid of mini skirts, pants, and low cuts. One day I packed them all up and took them to a local thrift shop. Why? Because I knew Jesus would not like them and I wanted to do everything to please the One who saved me from death and destruction. I had to ask the Lord to forgive me, because I knew I had caused many a man to sin in his heart because of the way I dressed.

And no more nakedness for me, in the name of water, sun and fun! That "colored underwear" I used to wear to the beach, all of a sudden became "strange apparel" (see Prov 7:10).

Now I know God made man with a sexual nature quite different from that of a woman. Man's sexual nature is so sensitive that it can be ignited into a fire by just the sight of a half-dressed or seductively-dressed woman. The short or tight skirt, low cut blouse, stocking legs, form fitting sweaters, pants, or jeans, all distract the minds of most men with unholy thoughts. The indulgent look, with desire, can destroy a man--and a woman! That strange apparel could mean the loss of eternal life not just to one man, but a whole host of them.

Before, I was dressing to bring attention to myself. Now, I want to hide behind Jesus. Before, I wasted hundreds of dollars and hours of precious probationary time trying to make myself beautiful by the world's standard. Now, I spend those hours in the study of God's Word and in prayer. I realize now that real beauty consists of a Christ-like character. Before, I loved dressing up or down--showing off fine clothes, forcing more and more clothes into my already overflowing closet, and trying to keep pace with the ever-changing fashions. Now, I measure my wardrobe by God's Word. Before, I was insecure. I wouldn't let anyone see me without my "make-up." Now, I am plain, placid, and pleased to be a child of the King. I feel secure because I know Jesus loves me just the way I am, and this gives me the courage to share this message of truth with all who will listen.

With my burden lifted and my idols torn down, what peace, sweet peace I enjoy! The change in me happened over 25 years ago. I still like to dress up, but only in Christ's beautiful robe of righteousness, and down with everything that displeases Him.

[Adapted from Thy Nakedness: Lord, What Shall I Wear? (Earlton, N.Y.: Homeward Publishing, 1997).]