For Catholics: End-Times & Revelations

[JaneBond007]

What exactly is our perspective on the end-times prophesies? If you've never known, you might just be surprised at how it differs. Good chance for us to brush up on what our Church teaches. Let this thread fill up with RCC approved article, discussion and reference for any catholics who happen to wonder by.

_________________________________________________________________
SOURCE

What Catholics Believe About The End of the World

by Kenneth E. Untener

In January of 1843, a preacher named William Miller—the founder of the American Adventist movement—announced that the end of the world would take place between March 21,1843, and March 21,1844. He had combed the Bible for clues and figured it all out.


Thousands from all denominations believed him, and tension mounted as the— yearlong vigil began, heightened by the appearance of a comet. Alas, the fateful year came to an end, and the world didn—t.


Neither did the speculation. There had been a miscalculation, Miller pointed out. He and his followers found a passage in the prophet Habakkuk about a —delay,— and a verse in the Book of Leviticus about 7 days and 10 months. Neither passage, of course, had anything to do with the end of the world, but never mind that. A new date was announced: October 22, 1844. Tension mounted once again. You know the outcome.


Similar scenarios have taken place in every age and continue at this moment. Such prophets never fail to find believers. Elvis lives.
The hype increases as we approach the year 2000. Some take it seriously, even fanatically, as did the Branch Davidian sect in Waco, Texas, in 1993. One radio church lists 24 signs from the Bible that the end is near. Crop rotation in Israel, for example, fulfills a prophecy in Amos about the plowman overtaking the reaper. And on and on it goes.


Some key questions

The problem with all this is that it creates a doomsday mood, and causes people to treat this world like a throwaway ballpoint pen. These past weeks I made it a point to converse with various parishioners about this topic, and I—ll treat here the things that came up most frequently. I do so from a Roman Catholic perspective, based on the work of recognized Scripture scholars and theologians of various denominations. Let—s look first at some commonly asked questions.


What is Armageddon? Thereis a road running through the middle of Israel to the sea. About 15 miles before it reaches the sea lie the ruins of a city called Megiddo. Its strategic location made it the scene of colossal battles going back 6000 years. When speaking of any great conflict, people often spoke of it as Megiddo or Armageddon, Hebrew words referring to the area around this city. Some go to great lengths in speculating about a final battle of Armageddon between the forces of good and evil preceding the end of the world (see Rv 16:14-16).


There is no reason to believe that the city or plain of Armageddon has any connection with the end of the world. It is imply an image, not unlike saying, —Well, next Tuesday is D day.— If someone overheard this and started watching for something to happen next Tuesday on the beaches of Normandy (where the Allies began the invasion of France in World War II), we would think it strange.


What is the significance of the millennium and —The 1000-Year Reign of Christ—? A passage in Revelation reads: “Then I saw an angel come down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the abyss and a heavy chain. He seized the dragon, —the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years...— (Rv 20:1-2).
The thousand years simply means a long time, just as we might say, —You won't guess this in a thousand years.— We—are now in the long period between Christ—s victory (symbolically expressed by tying up Satan) and his coming in glory. It could last millions of years. There are people (“millenarians—) who take this passage literally and search for signs of some thousand-year period on earth. When you start thinking in terms of a millennium, the approach of the year 2000 can get exciting. The same thing happened as the year 1000 approached. It—s the old problem of taking symbolic language literally.


Should we be preoccupied about the year 2000? We number things for convenience. The pages in a book, for example, are numbered for easy reference. The page numbered 100 really isn—t the 100th page, since the first few pages either aren—t numbered or have Roman numerals. The numbers simply help us find the right page.


We have done the same with our years, and there have been different numbering systems—the Jewish calendar, the Chinese calendar and others. The Gregorian calendar, now in common use, was introduced some 400 years ago, and took the birth of Christ as its reference point.
The year 2000 is not really the 2000th year. For one thing, the Gregorian calendar has no year —zero——which means we are already one year off. For another thing, there was a miscalculation on the date of Christ—s birth, which took place between 7 and 4 B.C. In other words, the year 2000 is not the 2000th year after Christ—s birth. Calendar dates are just numbers for common reference, with no particular scriptural or theological significance.


What about the —rapture—? We normally use rapture to signify spiritual or emotional ecstasy. However, the more basic meaning of the word is —to seize, to transport.— End-of-the-world prophets use it in this latter sense. Matthew—s Gospel speaks of two women grinding meal; one is —taken— and the other is left (see 24:41). Literalists do not accept this as symbolic language, and they expect that at the end of time the just will be plucked from the earth by God (see 1 Thes 4:17). Bumper stickers read, ——Are you ready for the rapture?— It is another example of taking symbolic language literally.


How should we understand the Antichrist? The term Antichrist appears only in the first and second epistles of John. It is clearly a term symbolic of the forces working against Christ in all periods of history, not a clue about a specific individual. If someone observed, —Every family has skeletons in the closet,— you would miss the point if you started searching the hallway closet!

 

[JaneBond007]

Cont'd


Doomsday Passages in Scripture

We now take a closer look at how the Bible treats the end of the world. We are familiar with various kinds of— literature: poetry, science fiction, history, satire. Most people are not familiar with a kind of literature called —apocalyptic.— It was very popular from about 200 B.C.to 200 A.D., a time of great crisis in Israel.


The Greek word apocalypse (inEnglish, revelation) literally means —to draw back the veil.— When times were tough, writers tried to bring comfort by putting things into a wider perspective. Baseball managers try to do the same when their team is in a slump: —We were riding high at the beginning of the season, but now the sky has fallen in. Well, we've been through tough times before. It's a long season and we've got the horses.—


Apocalyptic literature attempts to give assurance that, however bad things may be, one need only draw back the veil and see things in the perspective of the great battle against evil, and appreciate the length and breadth and depth of God—s victorious power at work among us.
To paint this larger picture, writers drew from a storehouse of stock apocalyptic images that dwarfed the immediate crisis. Among the standard images were: stars falling from the sky, the sun and moon darkened, lightning, thunder, dragons, creatures with many eyes, four horsemen, trumpet blasts, water turning to blood, plagues. It—s a way of saying that the present order of things is not the whole picture and will be giving way to something new and much larger.


Strange pictures are conjured up when people take these apocalyptic images literally. Imagine what would happen if people in future epochs took literally images we use today: raining cats and dogs, hit the roof, money coming out of his ears, two-faced, forked tongue, on cloud nine and so on.


Don't look for coded messages


Biblical writers addressed the problems of their day. These past events have parallels in every age, and we can learn from them. But there is not the slightest indication that the authors were giving secret coded messages about distant future events. The Bible is not a coded message for a select few. It is the basic story of human life for all people in every age.


But people continue to look for coded messages. For example, the Book of Revelation, using apocalyptic language, speaks of a beast with —feet like a bear—s.— Some people in modern times have actually thought this was a secret message about Russia. Never mind that the Book of Revelation was written for an audience of the first century! This is the sort of thing that happens when Scripture is treated like a word game.


And then there are numbers. A thousand years simply means a long time, and a certain number of months means a short time. Those who take these numbers literally become the William Millers of every age. One of the favorites is the passage in the Book of Revelation which assigns the number 666 to one of the beasts. The author, using the numerical value of letters, was probably referring to the Roman emperor Nero. Since then, people have applied it to world leaders in every age, including Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and many others. Popes have been fairly regular targets.



Sayings of Jesus about the end of the world



When the disciples marveled at the beauty of the Temple, Jesus told them that some day it would all be destroyed. He uses apocalyptic language: —There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky—.Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for a terrible calamity will come upon the earth and a wrathful judgment upon this people— (Luke 21:11, 23).


Taken literally, this sounds like a dreadful end to the whole world, but it actually refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Because he uses apocalyptic language, many of the sayings of Jesus about the end of Jerusalem are wrongly applied to the end of the world.


Still there are times when Jesus does talk about the end of the world, and here too he uses apocalyptic language: —the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken— (Mt 24:29). We find the same stock images in the 13th chapter of Isaiah, referring to the fall of Babylon six centuries before Christ: —The stars and constellations of the heavens send forth no light; the sun is dark when it rises and the light of the moon does not shine—the heavens tremble and the earth shall be shaken from its place.—


There will be an end to history as we know it, and the fads and fashions of this world are passing. When it will come is irrelevant—it will come for each of us at death. And how it will come is unknown, because apocalyptic language is symbolic and cannot be plumbed for secret clues that simply aren—t there. The basic message of these passages is a clear one: If we live as though the finite horizons of this life were the whole of reality, we are fools indeed.


The second coming of Christ

There was a time when it was customary on Ascension Thursday, after reading the Gospel, to extinguish the Paschal Candle—as though Jesus were gone and we were left to await his second coming at the end of time.
Scripture doesn—t use the phrase second coming, but speaks of various comings of the Lord, often using the Greek work parousia (—presence, coming—). Jesus promised his disciples that he would come back to them, and he did come back after the Resurrection, breathing the Spirit upon them and fulfilling the promise that the Father and he would make their dwelling with them (and with us). In Matthew—s Gospel, his last words are, —And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age— (Mt 28:20).
We believe that his presence will be manifest in a much fuller way at the end of the age, which will be the parousia. We shouldn—t picture this as an arrival from outer space, as though he had to come —from a distance.— The image of Jesus —seated at the right hand of the Father— expresses honor, not geographic place. The image of Jesus coming on a cloud is an apocalyptic expression, taken straight from the Book of Daniel—“I saw one like a son of man coming on the clouds of heaven— (7:13)—and should not be taken literally.
The Eucharistic Prayer for Children III expresses all this quite well: —Jesus now lives with you (Father) in glory, but he is also here on earth among us....One day he will come in glory.”—



We don'
t really know what it will be like when Jesus, already present among us, fully manifests himself in glory at the end of the age. It will be probably be as different from our expectations as was every other —parousia,— including the incarnation.


Is the end of the world near? No one has any idea. It could be 40 million years away (the sun has at least that much fuel) or it could happen a week from Tuesday.

 

[JaneBond007]

cont'd



A frightening end or a new birth?

Perhaps the best way to describe the end of the world is to see it as history coming to term. This is a birth image, which is one of the images Jesus used. We are within history, which is like being in the confines of the womb, and what a mistake it would be to think there is not a wider reality ahead of us. It would be equally a mistake to think that what we are about now is unimportant. Just as in a pregnancy, what is being formed is very important to what shall be, so in the process of history, what is taking shape will be very much related to what is born into the reign of God. We are not throwaways, and this is not a throwaway world.

While the end of this stage might be frightening, as birth can be, it need not be seen as catastrophic. It is a passing over into something not fully known. When a child is born, almost all its points of reference are changed, and that can be traumatic. But it is a beautiful event.

We have a wide picture of salvation. We really believe in the saving of this world, the one we—re living in. In his miracles Jesus gave us a taste of the Kingdom emerging into this world, and the world into the Kingdom. We don—t take this world or history lightly.

Catholics generally are not preoccupied with prophecies of impending doom. They have an optimistic view of the world, and see the end as the gradual (not sudden) passing of creation into God—s realm. They give value to the things of earth by incorporating them into their journey to God. Perhaps this is related to our rather —earthy— tradition of using material things— palms, ashes, water, bread, wine, oil, fire, incense, vestments, colors, icons, symbols—in our worship.

But on the other hand, we don—t have the illusion that this is the whole of reality. What a tragedy it would be if a person were to gain the whole of this world and destroy oneself in the process.

Apocalyptic imagery can be used badly to make it seem as though —the end— were simply a matter of the just being plucked from the deck of a sinking ship (the universe) and transported to a new ship unrelated to this one. It can trivialize the significance of Jesus becoming part of our world in the incarnation. In so doing, it can trivialize the length and breadth of salvation.

When will it all happen?

When will history come to term? When will the —birth— happen? We don—t know. There is no indication that it is near, and there is no assurance that it is far. What is important is not when it will happen, but that it will happen. History is short when put in perspective. The Second Epistle of Peter reminds us, —But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day— (3:8).

What is also important is that our own end is relatively near. By the insurance mortality charts, I have 23 years left. Only God knows the actual count. In the Parable of the Rich Fool, Jesus presents this perspective in language we can all under—stand. After a bountiful harvest the rich man plans to store his grain in bigger barns, believing be can now rest, eat, drink, be merry. God says to him, —You fool, this night your life will be demanded of you; and the things you have prepared, to whom will they belong?— (Lk 12:20)

When we see ourselves and this world in the perspective of history coming to term, we see with different eyes. Things that seem so important within the limited horizon of the womb of history become not so important. Things that seem not so important in this world—s eyes become very important. It changes one—s whole attitude about what you want to do with your life.

Instead of fretting about the question of —when,— therefore, we are wiser to focus on the question of —who——namely, upon a loving God who promises to walk with us to the end, whenever that occurs. Our understanding of the “end— flows from a real-life conviction about the here-and-now meaning of our lives and our universe. In short, we believe with St. Paul that the same God —who began a good work in you will continue to complete it until the day of Christ Jesus— (Phil 1:6).

Bishop Kenneth E. Untener, a native of Detroit, has a doctorate in theology from the Gregorian University in Rome. In 1977 he was appointed rector of St. John—s Seminary, Plymouth, Michigan. In 1980 he became bishop of the Diocese of Saginaw. A writer and popular lecturer, Bishop Untener regularly conducts retreats for priests and gives talks around the country.

 

[JaneBond007]

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm

Endtimes, Millennium, Rapture

The term "endtimes" applies both to the era of Christ's first coming (Heb 1:2, 1 Cor 10:11, Heb 9:26) and to the events immediately before his return and the end of the ages (Mt 24:13, 2 Tim 2:1, 2 Peter 3:3). The definitive Catholic teaching on the endtimes is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church under the discussion of the article of the Creed, "From thence He will come again to judge the living and the dead." [CCC 668-682]

As the Creed infallibly teaches, the Second Coming is associated with the end of the world and the Last Judgment. Therefore, it is NOT associated with any earlier time - such as to establish a "Millennium." The Catholic Church specifically condemns "millenarianism," according to which Jesus will establish a throne in this world and reign here for a thousand years [CCC 676]. She teaches instead that Jesus already reigns in eternity (1 Cor. 15:24-27, Rev. 4 & 5) and that in this world His reign, established as a seed, is found already in the Church [CCC 668-669]. This is the 1000 years, which is the Hebrew way of indicating an indefinite long time - in this case, the time between the first and second comings, the era of the Church, in other words the last days in the broadest sense.The Book of Revelation situates this era between the persecutions of the Roman antichrists of the first century and the final unleashing of evil at the end.

Naturally, non-Catholics cannot accept that the Catholic Church represents Christ in this world, so they are forced to look for a personal earthly reign somewhere out in the future. The notion that Jesus will come, reign, and then depart, so that the devil can trick the world again, is incompatible with the incomprehensible dignity of the Lord and His love for His people. Jesus' Coming will be definitive, triumphant and ever-lasting, NOT temporal and limited.

As for the Rapture, the meaning of 1 Thes 4:15-17 is that at the return of Christ (v.15) and the General Resurrection of the Dead (v.16), those who survive the persecution of the Antichrist will have no advantage in being resurrected over those who died before His Coming [CCC 1001]. All will go to meet Him and be with Him forever (v.17; cf. Rev 20:17-21:27).


The Catechism provides us with a general order of events at the End [CCC 673-677]. Chronologically they are,

1. the full number of the Gentiles come into the Church

2. the "full inclusion of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of the full number of the Gentiles" (#2 will follow quickly on, in the wake of, #1)

3. a final trial of the Church "in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth." The supreme deception is that of the Antichrist.

4. Christ's victory over this final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the Last Judgment.

As Cardinal Ratzinger recently pointed out (in the context of the message of Fátima), we are not at the end of the world. In fact, the Second Coming (understood as the physical return of Christ) cannot occur until the full number of the Gentiles are converted, followed by "all Israel."

Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians. Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur.

Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima's promise of an "Era of Peace." This "Triumph of the Immaculate Heart" (other saints have spoken of a social reign of Jesus Christ when Jesus will reign in the hearts of men) would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist. The optimism of the Pope for the "New Evangelization" and a "Civilization of Love" in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. Other interpretations are possible, but none seem to fit the facts as well, especially when approved mystics are studied, instead of merely alleged ones.

 

[JaneBond007]

Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, CCC 668-677

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER TWO
I BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY SON OF GOD

ARTICLE 7
"FROM THENCE HE WILL COME AGAIN TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD"

I. HE WILL COME AGAIN IN GLORY

Christ already reigns through the Church. . .

668 "Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."549 Christ's Ascension into heaven signifies his participation, in his humanity, in God's power and authority. Jesus Christ is Lord: he possesses all power in heaven and on earth. He is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion", for the Father "has put all things under his feet."550 Christ is Lord of the cosmos and of history. In him human history and indeed all creation are "set forth" and transcendently fulfilled.551

669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body.552 Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. The redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ [is] already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".553

670 Since the Ascension God's plan has entered into its fulfillment. We are already at "the last hour".554 "Already the final age of the world is with us, and the renewal of the world is irrevocably under way; it is even now anticipated in a certain real way, for the Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real but imperfect."555 Christ's kingdom already manifests its presence through the miraculous signs that attend its proclamation by the Church.556

. . .until all things are subjected to him

671 Though already present in his Church, Christ's reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled "with power and great glory" by the King's return to earth.557 This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ's Passover.557 Until everything is subject to him, "until there be realized new heavens and a new earth in which justice dwells, the pilgrim Church, in her sacraments and institutions, which belong to this present age, carries the mark of this world which will pass, and she herself takes her place among the creatures which groan and travail yet and await the revelation of the sons of God."559 That is why Christians pray, above all in the Eucharist, to hasten Christ's return by saying to him:560 Marana tha! "Our Lord, come!"561

672 Before his Ascension Christ affirmed that the hour had not yet come for the glorious establishment of the messianic kingdom awaited by Israel562 which, according to the prophets, was to bring all men the definitive order of justice, love and peace.563 According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by "distress" and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church564 and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.565

The glorious advent of Christ, the hope of Israel

673 Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are "delayed".568

674 The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573

The Church's ultimate trial

675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581

 

[blazingthru]

William Miller was not the only one focusing on this date there were many all over the world who set the date. The Adventist Church grew out of the great disappointment. William Miller was a Baptist Preacher and his congregation was Baptist. Needless to say. It would benefit anyone to study out the sanctuary, it was not just a building for way back then it has great significance for now. It explains why many folks thought that is signified Jesus return, but it really meant the cleansing of the sanctuary. Jesus entered the holy of holies twice, When he ascended to heaven and when he cleansed the sanctuary. here is the question: when did he cleanses, when did the Jews cleanse the sanctuary. I might make a thread about it. in any case, that is why there was so much confusion they had the dates right but not the meaning.

 

[JaneBond007]

Youtube homily, 07:20 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0wMLmSapWQ

Fr. Jeffrey


Thank you for your commentary, @blazingthru I believe he was providing an example but not an exhaustive list. It was for contrastive example. As for the sanctuary, our church is that sanctuary with the priest, the Holy of Holies and the deep meanings of the Temple then are very well understood and preserved today in Our Church because we are that transformation. I hope that we can keep a main focus on what the Roman Catholic Church teaches in this regard from the Doctors of the Church and ancient writings and scripture for the edification and knowledge building of it's members. We hear so much what others faiths say about it, I thought it was time that anybody catholic who didn't quite know would be able to get doctrinally sound evidence and be within the confines of our own faith.

 

[JaneBond007]

What does our RCC say about the 'rapture?'

(for full article, please see SOURCE)



What’s the Catholic Position?

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).



Spinning Wheels?

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Discussion...in Hebrew, 'eleph' means a thousand and there was a way to write scripture in various levels of meanings and explanations to say "many years"...in that case, "eleph" is also "revava" meaning "many." Much figurative technique is used in scripture from the beginning. Another example, the 144,000 of those worshipping G-d in heaven doesn't mean just 144,000 but is representing the 12 Tribes of Israel and multiples of those..."many." It's like an inconcrete number. At Sinai, it is recorded in scripture that 3 million stood...again, that is a figurative type interpretive text of how many because there were far more. It's representation.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I will be back to read through this thoroughly. This is one area I haven't gotten around to since I've become Catholic. The way I look at it is, He's coming and I want to be ready Scott Hahn's Marriage Supper of the Lamb kinda touches on Revelation but in relation to worship at Mass but it doesn't get into the Catholic dogma about end times. Look forward to reading your posts, JaneBond007

 

[Galadriel]

Trials, Tribulation, and Triumph by Desmond Burch. He meticulously goes through Scripture, the Church Fathers, and approved apparitions all dealing with the End Times. This is a THICK book. It's expensive (around $25+) and nearly out of print, but I WILL be finding myself a copy.

 

[JaneBond007]

I don't follow the apparitions of the end times. Have heard of things, like the warning that will come and was told to the children at Garabandal. We have the beginning and the end in scripture and our catechism explains it all. It's not truly complicated. Events might be complicated but our end is when we die. Sometimes, and this is not pointed to my catholic sisters, but to the host of people talking about the apparitions etc., I feel that they are so caught up on the emotionalism that they cannot rationally look at the catechism and say, "here it is, what to worry about?" Cataclysmal events, sigh. There have always been such events. But it's so simple, though. That's rather how I look at it. I don't have the mind to delve deeply into the mystical events of such things...maybe in other areas. They evoke unnecessary fear. And I'm not discounting the horrors experienced by the early church. Most all has come to pass, though. If we stick with the catechism, we have the concrete answer for the majority who are not going to get into apologetics. I believe that was what I was trying to convey. Jesus is returning triumphantly...but it might be 10,000 years from now lol. We need to keep on building for the long haul.

 

[Galadriel]

Interesting article from the Catholic Herald (UK) that speaks of the Great Monarch, the Angelic Pope, and End Times:

I was leafing through the current issue of The Flock, the newsletter of Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, (available here) when I came across an article by the redoubtable Mrs Daphne McLeod about Our Lady of Quito—otherwise known as Our Lady of Good Success—who appeared several times to Mother Mariana, Abbess of the convent of the Immaculate Conception in Quito, Ecuador, at the end of the sixteenth and the beginning of the seventeenth centuries.

On one of these occasions, she made a particularly remarkable prophecy. You will see why—knowing Mrs McLeod’s passionate concern for the religious education of our children, and her repeated warnings over the years about the consequences of the denatured and insubstantial superficiality of what they are now fed as RE—she draws our attention in The Flock to this particular apparition of Our Lady.

My source for what follows is an admirable and extremely useful site, snappily entitled “Apparitions and Shrines of the Blessed Virgin Mary which have been approved by legitimate Church Authority”.

Early in the morning of January 21, 1610, the Archangels St. Michael, St. Gabriel and St. Raphael appeared to Mother Mariana. Then Our Lady appeared to her and predicted many things about our own times: this is part of what Mother Mariana afterwards related that she told her:

“…. I make it known to you that from the end of the 19th century and shortly after the middle of the 20th century…. the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of customs (morals)….

“They will focus principally on the children in order to sustain this general corruption. Woe to the children of these times! It will be difficult to receive the Sacrament of Baptism, and also that of Confirmation…

“As for the Sacrament of Matrimony… it will be attacked and deeply profaned… The Catholic spirit will rapidly decay; the precious light of the Faith will gradually be extinguished… Added to this will be the effects of secular education, which will be one reason for the dearth of priestly and religious vocations.

“The Sacrament of Holy Orders will be ridiculed, oppressed, and despised… The Devil will try to persecute the ministers of the Lord in every possible way; he will labor with cruel and subtle astuteness to deviate them from the spirit of their vocation and will corrupt many of them. These depraved priests, who will scandalize the Christian people, will make the hatred of bad Catholics and the enemies of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church fall upon all priests…

“Further, in these unhappy times, there will be unbridled luxury, which will ensnare the rest into sin and conquer innumerable frivolous souls, who will be lost. Innocence will almost no longer be found in children, nor modesty in women. In this supreme moment of need of the Church, the one who should speak will fall silent.” In a subsequent apparition, Our Lady told Mother Mariana that these apparitions were not to become generally known until the twentieth century.

Now, it is true that Our Lady’s prophecies here are concerned particularly with what will happen more than three centuries in the future “in what is today the Colony and will then be the Republic of Ecuador”, where, she says, “Satan will reign almost completely by means of the Masonic sects”. All the same (though I can’t quite see the few harmless Masons I have known bringing in the sovereignty of Satan here) the relevance of these prophecies to English Society and the English Church (indeed to the whole modern world) in the twentieth century—and therefore now—is obvious enough. She even homes in on the sixties: she times this “eruption” of the passions to take place “shortly after the middle of the twentieth century”.

Particularly striking, you may think, are Our Lady’s words about how “the Sacrament of Matrimony …will be attacked and deeply profaned”, and that remarkable passage about some “depraved priests, who will scandalise the Christian people, [and who] will make the hatred of bad Catholics and the enemies of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church fall upon all priests…”

Mrs McLeod sees particular relevance to her own concerns about the woeful state and dire consequences of what our children are taught in Catholic schools, and draws attention particularly to Our Lady’s prophecy that those who do Satan’s will “would ‘focus particularly on the children in order to achieve this general corruption. Woe to the children of these times!’ “. Mrs McLeod observes that “We can see only too clearly what she meant now that the inadequate, even false, religious teaching given to the children in so many Catholic schools and parishes leaves them highly vulnerable to the explicit classroom lessons on sex, not to mention the television programmes and computer games, which inevitably corrupt and deprave them.”

No doubt someone will throw doubt on that analysis, and say that the prophecy really isn’t about RE in rainy old England but about what’s supposed to be going on now in Ecuador (incidentally does anyone out there know anything about what IS going on in Ecuador?); but if anyone does say that, I think they will be quite wrong. Our Lady’s prophecies are usually universal in their application: and we live in what is sometimes ludicrously called a “globalised world”. These prophecies are just as much about about Europe and North America: there is surely no doubt that these extraordinary words are meant for us, too. A few translations to modern idioms and modern forms of collaboration with Satan may be necessary: I have just mentioned the mild and unthreatening nature of English masonry. But it hasn’t been like that everywhere. In 1952, for instance, the Grand Lodge of France passed a series of resolutions against the Catholic Church, including one “to unmask by every means the subtle scheming of the Vatican State Secretariat, which aims at imposing the shameful guardianship of religious and political-economic dictatorship on the whole of mankind . . . and to accept, in the relentless struggle against clericalism, every alliance compatible with the Masonic ideal.”

Well, there are plenty of anti-clerical cults today, consumed by a fanatical anti-clericalism of exactly the same sort, who wage a constant struggle to get God out of modern culture in any way they can think of, large and small; How about this example, reported approvingly by one of these anti-God cults, The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science, in which an outfit called New York City Atheists is joining one Dr. Michael Newdow, a California-based Atheist “physician/lawyer”, in a suit to get the words “In God We Trust” removed from American coins and currency. That would be a small but significant victory in the unending culture wars of our times.

You can all think of a hundred other examples, emanating not just from hard-line cultists like Dawkins, but from soft-core and mostly low-key almost subconsciously anti-Christian organisations like the BBC. It all adds up to a cultural explosion, the effects of which have indeed erupted, as Our Lady prophesied, in “a total corruption” of our mores and many of our institutions, both within the Church and in the wider secular society of which we are part.

The most important thing to understand is that it would be just wrong to despair at all this. The fightback is underway. For, in the end, Our Lady of Quito’s prophecies do not end with spiritual catastrophe. In a later apparition she foretold that “In order to free men from bondage to these heresies, those whom the merciful love of My Most Holy Son will destine for that restoration will need great strength of will, constancy, valor and much confidence in God. To test this faith and confidence of the just, there will be occasions when everything will seem to be lost and paralyzed. This, then, will be the happy beginning of the complete restoration.”

I believe we have seen that faith and valour over the last half century, above all in the present Holy Father and his heroic predecessor; and that that complete restoration has indeed happily begun.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

“…. I make it known to you that from the end of the 19th century and shortly after the middle of the 20th century…. the passions will erupt and there will be a total corruption of customs (morals)….

“They will focus principally on the children in order to sustain this general corruption. Woe to the children of these times! It will be difficult to receive the Sacrament of Baptism, and also that of Confirmation…

“As for the Sacrament of Matrimony… it will be attacked and deeply profaned… The Catholic spirit will rapidly decay; the precious light of the Faith will gradually be extinguished… Added to this will be the effects of secular education, which will be one reason for the dearth of priestly and religious vocations.

“The Sacrament of Holy Orders will be ridiculed, oppressed, and despised… The Devil will try to persecute the ministers of the Lord in every possible way; he will labor with cruel and subtle astuteness to deviate them from the spirit of their vocation and will corrupt many of them. These depraved priests, who will scandalize the Christian people, will make the hatred of bad Catholics and the enemies of the Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church fall upon all priests…

“Further, in these unhappy times, there will be unbridled luxury, which will ensnare the rest into sin and conquer innumerable frivolous souls, who will be lost. Innocence will almost no longer be found in children, nor modesty in women. In this supreme moment of need of the Church, the one who should speak will fall silent.” In a subsequent apparition, Our Lady told Mother Mariana that these apparitions were not to become generally known until the twentieth century.

I mean, what more proof do we need? Our Lady was talking about this stuff before Fatima--wow! I mean, ALL of this has come to pass. My Lord

I guess my question is: will Jesus come because we will reach a point of no return or can we turn this around before He comes? I'm thinking the former but I don't know if the apparition reveals more Galadriel?

 

[Galadriel]

I mean, what more proof do we need? Our Lady was talking about this stuff before Fatima--wow! I mean, ALL of this has come to pass. My Lord

I guess my question is: will Jesus come because we will reach a point of no return or can we turn this around before He comes? I'm thinking the former but I don't know if the apparition reveals more @Galadriel?

Belle Du Jour

Unfortunately, I think with the exception of mass conversions (among fallen away Catholics) and a return to practicing the Faith in its entirety, we cannot avoid this.

Our sinful societies, as well as the rejection of many Christian morals and truths among Christians themselves has caused judgment to be suspended over us. Sister Lucia of Fatima, Blessed John Paul II, and Benedict XVI are on record relating the message of Fatima (especially the 3rd Secret) to the End Times and the Book of Revelation.

I agree with the outline of this article, that there will be economic upheaval in Europe (and in America), war and revolutions (we've already got the revolutions in the Middle East and the war in Afghanistan. If Iran develops or uses nuclear weapons--or if we *think* they have, there will be another war).

There will be turmoil in Italy, so much so that the Pope will be forced to flee Rome. Saint Pius X had a vision where he saw one of his successors fleeing the Vatican over the bodies of his dead priests. This also corresponds to the vision of the Third Secret of Fatima.

Restoration will occur with the pope who comes after the martyred pope, i.e., "the Angelic Pope," and the "Great Monarch." There will be mass conversions, reunification of the churches, and a couple of decades of peace.

Then, the antichrist and his persecutions will come. At some point there will be a mass conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity.

The antichrist will be destroyed.

Jesus Christ will return to judge the living and the dead.*


-------------
*Note: the Church has always rejected millenarianism that teaches Christ will return and physically rule on earth for 1,000 years. The presence of the Kingdom of God on earth is the purified, holy Church. When Christ returns, it will only be once, and this is when the dead will be resurrected and both the living and the dead will be judged (i.e., the General Judgment).

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I just got a chill reading that. It sounds like there is still more to come than what we may see in this lifetime.

This is my first time hearing about the mass conversion of Jews. I wonder what will be the tipping point for them to believe?

 

[Galadriel]

I just got a chill reading that. It sounds like there is still more to come than what we may see in this lifetime.

This is my first time hearing about the mass conversion of Jews. I wonder what will be the tipping point for them to believe?

If I'm not mistaken, the tipping point will be the preaching and prophesying of the Two Witnesses (Moses and Elijah, that is, in the spirit and power of these two) as spoken of in the Book of Revelation. The Two Witnesses are killed by the antichrist but are then assumed into heaven. The antichrist will try to imitate an "ascension" into heaven to prove his deity/powers but is then struck down by God.

Some have identified the Great Monarch and Angelic Pope as the Two Witnesses.

--------------------------

I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.” If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

--Rev. 11:1-14