Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Glad to here that.
Divorce-Now I'm a little confused too
- Thread starter Chrissy811
- Start date
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I don't know this made-up version of God who changes his words based on human desires and where his commands are merely suggestions.Very interesting discussion and one that hits close to home for me. I am divorced and have remarried. I divorced because of adultery committed by my spouse. There were several instances and I did not divorce lightly. This is also a 2nd marriage for my husband who also divorced due to adultery. We sought pre-marital counseling before marrying because we wanted to be in the will of God and were concerned that a 2nd marriage would not be sanctified by God.
Through much prayer and supplication I believe both of our writs of divorce were in accordance to what was laid out in scripture and believe God has sanctified and blessed our current union.
Through much prayer and supplication I believe both of our writs of divorce were in accordance to what was laid out in scripture and believe God has sanctified and blessed our current union.
Galadriel
Well-Known Member
So sorry to hear of the circumstances of the first marriage. It boggles the mind how some people can go before God and man and make these vows but then turn around and cheat on their spouse with impunity. People who cheat seriously need to check their hearts and minds.
Not according to scriptures. Corinthians 7 says to remain unmarried. That is because the covenant hasn't been broken. Adultery is a sin against one's own body. Matthew 5 Jesus said to divorce for any reason other than adultery will cause the spouse and the person they marry to commit adultery.
Choclatcotton
Well-Known Member
I know it can be a ard saying but this is what i was taut as well 100% to remain unmarried or reconcile.
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Keep reading what I wrote and ask Him yourself. Where is the mercy? Where is the knowledge of historical context? Where is the Spiritual guidance? This is why the church system is failing society - no true trust of His leading, just continued misinterpretation and pretext of Scripture, beating people with it until they turn a deaf ear to your so-called "righteousness." Where is the love? Is being right better than love?
Agreed, I'm just grateful for God's grace and mercy throughout my first marriage and the favor he is showing to me this time around. I pray that God keeps my mind constantly but should either of us lose it and get divorced there will be no 3rd marriage for me!
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Some would say my marriage is not properly blessed because we went to the courthouse to do it. Still together 20 years later, despite all our struggles. He arraigned our union and we dedicated it to Him. I trust Him in its maintenance and He has surprised me so much over the years. A blessing to the Lord for that!
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Thank you! Blessings to you and yours as well.
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Hopefully, my last post on the subject. Please, let the Holy Spirit be your guide in all things.
The Wife's Grounds for Divorce
The Wife's Grounds for Divorce
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Hopefully, my last post on the subject. Please, let the Holy Spirit be your guide in all things.
The Wife's Grounds for Divorce
TFS, @Sharpened.
I clicked the link and read.
It was so encouraging to read. However, I have the following super genuine questions:
1) Just because somebody wrote it doesn't mean GOD permits it. So, why is it believed that God permits all of that stuff at the link?
2) Why isn't the information in the link in the bible? That stuff is VERY important.
3) Why should people feel comfortable following the guidelines in the post over the scripture in the bible?
I ask, not be cantankerous or argument or anything like that (you "know" me), but because I truly would like responses to the questions above. Because it would be a huge relief if we could know that God permits it.
Thanks, sis!
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
You have to remember historical context, meaning what was the mindset at the time. What I posted Jesus would have known. The Jewish converts understood their instructions and tried their best to explain it to Gentiles; many letters were lost to time. Remember what John said, not all of the things Jesus did were written. Some things were established by principle, meaning based on the 10 Commandments, how would Yah want this handled. So, whose fault is it that the Gentiles did not include these concepts and explanations when they decided what would be in the Bible?
Ultimately, the Father Creator Himself is the final authority and we have to get to know and trust Him on a supernatural level. This is why He has said over and over, "Seek Me!"
??!!??Huh?
ROM 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
God only permits what He says is permissible. If it's directly against scripture, it's directly against God.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Thanks for sharing. I have been a Christian and studying the bible for decades. Look at these two scriptures. Which does Jesus (who is both God and man, according to the scripture) permit:
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. — Matthew 5:16
Or is it . . .
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. —Matthew 6:1
This is just one example related to just ONE of many, many, many, many reasons that people are trying to RIGHTLY DIVIDE scriptures, read them in historical context for insight, quench not the Spirit of God but stay open to His real-time revelation, listen to God, hear God, etc.
There is the printed word . . . and then there is Someone that is beyond it.
I could list many more sets of scriptures that seem to be saying the opposite of one another, that contain contradictory numbers/facts, etc.
-------------------
Do you wear a head covering according to I Corinthians 11:5-6? Do you cover your head every time before you pray?
"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head."
Do you attend a church wherein women are not permitted to speak? 1 Timothy 2:11 reinforces what 1 Corinthians 14:34:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."
YvetteWithJoy
On break
@Leigh, also, I shared this with someone else:
I know a ton of Christians, many with advanced degrees in theology from traditionally Christian schools as well as the Ivy League (only since I'm an Ivy Leaguer.) I've watched these people from age 20 to 40 as they earned their theology degrees, learned the ancient languages, and studied the bible in those languages alongside historical documents from those times.
Every single one of these people tell me that the bible reads and "means" much differently than most English speakers know.
That concerned me. So I read and read, studied and studied. I have learned that some Christians are on a walk anchored in scripture but much more dynamic and real-time spiritual than most. They know that print/words point the way to something unwritable, the Spirit. Sixty-six books/letters can lay a foundation and point the way, but could never contain God. So for them they are on a dynamic walk, anchored in the printed word without deifying it, instead worshipping the living Word.
If I had not seen so many brilliant, super strict, scripture-intense theology students walk that same path, I would think it was just getting too learned and "intellectual" for their own good! But these are some of the sincerest, humblest, God-fearing, kingdom workers I know!
One guy in particular told me about the day he learned that there had to be other people besides Adam and Eve that were made, else who did their children marry? He learned the science behind this: There had to be other people. He began looking at the scripture differently -- not as false, but "rightly dividing" it.
Another dedicated friend studying to become a preacher almost left the faith after comparing and contrasting Jesus's words with Paul's.
I say ALL of that to say: I interact with people who love the Lord according to the path they seem to be on. I have friends who believe that because musical instruments and clapping during worshipping singing cannot be found BY EXAMPLE in the NEW Testament, anyone who does so will spend eternity in hell. Yes. There are tens of thousands of Christians who believe this. They believe Jesus's entry did away with the OT as law, along with instruments. They cite Ephesians 5:19 to prove it. It says "sing" not "play" for a reason. Instrumental music brings in emotionalism, etc., versus singing which must necessarily be an active act, not the passive listening to instruments.
Now, I believe these folks are sincere in their strong desire to follow the scripture. I don't think that means that baptized believers who allow worship music to accompany their singing are hellbound.
In a similar way, I don't judge others who are founding their relationship in the scripture yet seeking to experience God beyond print. I can't know exactly what God is showing them. I can't even know if the voice they are hearing is God's or not. I know I have finally learned to simply pray that they are not led astray, as God conceives it, not my finite human mind.
Instead of trying to throw a more exacting scriptural approach on these people, I consider, then pray over my AND their study (and thinking) on what they share.
ETA: AN IMPORTANT GUIDELINE I'VE FOUND is in 2 Peter 1:20:
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.
So, I don't take individual's interpretations. Trust me! I listen without judging and study galore and pray galore!
I know a ton of Christians, many with advanced degrees in theology from traditionally Christian schools as well as the Ivy League (only since I'm an Ivy Leaguer.) I've watched these people from age 20 to 40 as they earned their theology degrees, learned the ancient languages, and studied the bible in those languages alongside historical documents from those times.
Every single one of these people tell me that the bible reads and "means" much differently than most English speakers know.
That concerned me. So I read and read, studied and studied. I have learned that some Christians are on a walk anchored in scripture but much more dynamic and real-time spiritual than most. They know that print/words point the way to something unwritable, the Spirit. Sixty-six books/letters can lay a foundation and point the way, but could never contain God. So for them they are on a dynamic walk, anchored in the printed word without deifying it, instead worshipping the living Word.
If I had not seen so many brilliant, super strict, scripture-intense theology students walk that same path, I would think it was just getting too learned and "intellectual" for their own good! But these are some of the sincerest, humblest, God-fearing, kingdom workers I know!
One guy in particular told me about the day he learned that there had to be other people besides Adam and Eve that were made, else who did their children marry? He learned the science behind this: There had to be other people. He began looking at the scripture differently -- not as false, but "rightly dividing" it.
Another dedicated friend studying to become a preacher almost left the faith after comparing and contrasting Jesus's words with Paul's.
I say ALL of that to say: I interact with people who love the Lord according to the path they seem to be on. I have friends who believe that because musical instruments and clapping during worshipping singing cannot be found BY EXAMPLE in the NEW Testament, anyone who does so will spend eternity in hell. Yes. There are tens of thousands of Christians who believe this. They believe Jesus's entry did away with the OT as law, along with instruments. They cite Ephesians 5:19 to prove it. It says "sing" not "play" for a reason. Instrumental music brings in emotionalism, etc., versus singing which must necessarily be an active act, not the passive listening to instruments.
Now, I believe these folks are sincere in their strong desire to follow the scripture. I don't think that means that baptized believers who allow worship music to accompany their singing are hellbound.
In a similar way, I don't judge others who are founding their relationship in the scripture yet seeking to experience God beyond print. I can't know exactly what God is showing them. I can't even know if the voice they are hearing is God's or not. I know I have finally learned to simply pray that they are not led astray, as God conceives it, not my finite human mind.
Instead of trying to throw a more exacting scriptural approach on these people, I consider, then pray over my AND their study (and thinking) on what they share.
ETA: AN IMPORTANT GUIDELINE I'VE FOUND is in 2 Peter 1:20:
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.
So, I don't take individual's interpretations. Trust me! I listen without judging and study galore and pray galore!
As do I. I also study the original Greek as much as possible.
Disclaimer: I'll have to re-read this later to make sure I didn't miss anything. I skimmed.
Those scriptures are not contradictory. One is saying not to broadcast helping others. There are people who will give a person a slice of bread and run around town telling everyone. They are doing it to get accolades. Letting your light shine has to do with how you present yourself. So if you help someone out of love and do it discreetly, you have fulfilled both scriptures.
What was going on in that text? The wives were talking over their husbands, acting out of order, while the men were not stepping up. Who was the head? Appeared to be role reversal going on. The man is the head. God demands order.
Ephesians 6
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
We are to be slaves of Christ.
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
But the way some people interpret Scripture, we should still be slaves on the Southern plantations.
YvetteWithJoy
On break
So you are saying that this means we can ignore these scriptures? That they don't apply to us today or in general? They were for that group? Because of what was going on? We can throw those scriptures out in cases where women aren't acting out of order, and in those cases women are fully permitted to speak in the church?
That is the EXACT SAME REASONING by which people argue their case on divorce:
"We can ignore that scripture. They apply to THAT group because of ______ (fill in the blank) and because of what was going on. We are fully permitted to divorce in these cases, and we know this because of the church records . . ."
----------
What happens is that people will take the "Women can't speak in church" scripture and say, "Oh, but they can."
And then someone takes the "People can't divorce scripture" and say, "Oh, but they can."
And then these two groups argue that they are permitted to go beyond the scripture and factor in context and history or the spirit of the law or what have you, but you're not.
YvetteWithJoy
On break
I didn't find out from you, @Leigh, what we are supposed to do with the scripture below.
Do you wear a head covering according to I Corinthians 11:5-6? Do you cover your head every time before you pray? Should we all be covering our heads in order to pray? If no, how do you know? What happens if we don't cover our heads to pray? Does that mean we are going to hell? Does it mean that every prayer I've said with my head uncovered has been a sin and grieved God?
"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head."
Do you wear a head covering according to I Corinthians 11:5-6? Do you cover your head every time before you pray? Should we all be covering our heads in order to pray? If no, how do you know? What happens if we don't cover our heads to pray? Does that mean we are going to hell? Does it mean that every prayer I've said with my head uncovered has been a sin and grieved God?
"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head."
??? The scriptures support one another and apply to us. They don't contradict. We are to let our light shine. That does not mean to boast. God does not like that and commands us not to do it. Question: Why would someone wait until they have an audience to help another person?
Helping someone privately is both letting your light shine as well as bringing discreetly.
I will have to answer your other questions later. I will answer them though.
YvetteWithJoy
On break
Thanks! I appreciate the conversation.
I was asking whether the scripture about women not being permitted to speak in the church applies to us . . . or do you believe it only applies to that group because the women were being out of place?
The scripture just simply says that women are to be silent in church.
But then, if you allow yourself to say, "Well, the scripture does say that women must be silent, but that was for the group he was addressing because of _____ (whatever reason),"
. . . Then you can see why others will say, "Well, the scripture does say that people are not to divorce, but that was for the group he was addressing because of _____ (whatever reason)."
Sharpened
A fleck on His Sword
Does the historical context, meaning what was going on at the time something was written, matter?
