Divorce-Now I'm a little confused too

Scripturally I would think her mother was right, but really it is HER walk with God and only He can direct her on it. She's to work out her own salvation, and what He says goes.

As for those people that do not stay single, again only God can judge what they have done, or justify them in it. Given, its not an ideal situation, but I believe God is merciful, but again, each case is different.
 
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Matthew 19

3 The Pharisees also came to him, tempting him, and saying to him, "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?"

4 And he answered and said to them, "Have you not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," 5 And said, "For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall join to his wife: and they two shall be one flesh? 6 Why they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."

7 They say to him, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorce, and to put her away?"

8 He said to them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, Whoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, commits adultery: and whoever marries her which is put away does commit adultery."

10 His disciples say to him, "If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry."

11 But he said to them, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

This same thing is repeated in Mark 10.


1 Corinthians 7:10-11 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

Those two links are for stroking people's ears, not the truth.
 
She said her mother told her that was a waste of time to join because she had to stay single and that even if she met a man who she was now equally yoked with she could never marry him because she is divorced and any realtionship she has from now on out is an adulterous one so not to even bother, plan to stay alone forever.
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So now I'm thinking are these peoples second marriages not blessed by God?
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Only the act of remarriage in itself is considered adultery...a single sin which IS forgivable. God DOES NOT view the entire marriage as invalid or adulterous (i.e. it's not a continuous sin as her mom states).

http://www.gotquestions.org/remarriage-adultery.html
 
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DarlingNikki said:
Only the act of remarriage in itself is considered adultery...a single sin which IS forgivable. God DOES NOT view the entire marriage as invalid or adulterous (i.e. it's not a continuous sin as her mom states).

http://www.gotquestions.org/remarriage-adultery.html
Click to expand...


How could the act of remarriage be adulterous, but the relationship not? What about every time the couple has sex? You're saying it's okay with God even though he wouldn't them to go through the act of remarriage in the first place? That would mean that what they did was merely a legal procedure. Doesn't make it right in God's eyes regardless if they ask for forgiveness after the ceremony. If they keep doing what they had to repent for, then they're still in sin.


BTW, I'm one of those that believe remarriage while you have a living spouse is a sin. Based on 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 and 1 Corinthians 7:39.

Remarriage can be a block reconciliation.

(I know there are lots of people that don't agree. You can find Web sites that tell you what you want to hear and look around at the millions of people that have divorced and remarried. It makes it look like it's okay. There are people that never marry and survive. It might seem unfathomable, but it is possible to live life as a divorcee and not remarry. The objective would be to be reunited with your spouse and have a Christ-filled marriage...)



This is a source I refer people to that breaks down the point and mentions some of the arguments that might come up in this thread:
http://www.libcfl.com/articles/divorce.htm
 
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I pray for your friend during this time. I recommend that she check out these sites - 2equals1.com and Marriage Ministries. Her mother is right and
'Nymphe' said it again. Once again I know that this is a difficult time but our prayers are with her.
 
Thanks ladies I have copied the links in the thread and suggested that she seek counsel from her pastor on this matter.
 
I personally cannot condemn any Christian who has re-married; for some the divorce occurred before salvation took place.

However, the concern I have is that Christians should not think that they have a license to divorce and remarry at will as in the same manner as the world has done so.

Those links give mercy to those who have been divorced and re-married, but also a potentially mixed and a scary message. Some may take it as permission to divorce and to remarry.

It's not about Playing Marriage Merry go round games; or changing partners, swing to the left, doe se doe like a barn yard square dance.

Do not get married 'initially' for the wrong reasons; then there'd be no instances of divorce in the first place. Unless there are dangerous circmstances involved, be prepared to stick it out and work it out.

Again, I am not condemning anyone who has been divorced and are now remarried. I do believe that God's grace and mercy covers re-marriage. Many women have been abandoned in Marriages and God does not hold them guilty for re-marriage.

My concern is solely for those who take advantage of God's mercy and those who are foolish and do not respect what Marriage is truly about.
 
Shimmie said:
I personally cannot condemn any Christian who has re-married; for some the divorce occurred before salvation took place.

However, the concern I have is that Christians should not think that they have a license to divorce and remarry at will as in the same manner as the world has done so.

Those links give mercy to those who have been divorced and re-married, but also a potentially mixed and a scary message. Some may take it as permission to divorce and to remarry.

It's not about Playing Marriage Merry go round games; or changing partners, swing to the left, doe se doe like a barn yard square dance.

Do not get married 'initially' for the wrong reasons; then there'd be no instances of divorce in the first place. Unless there are dangerous circmstances involved, be prepared to stick it out and work it out.

Again, I am not condemning anyone who has been divorced and are now remarried. I do believe that God's grace and mercy covers re-marriage. Many women have been abandoned in Marriages and God does not hold them guilty for re-marriage.

My concern is solely for those who take advantage of God's mercy and those who are foolish and do not respect what Marriage is truly about.
Click to expand...

Thanks Shimmie

I deleted the orignal post because I felt that the issue had been addressed and I didnt' want to cause any strife amongst my sisters. Funny enough I was talking to DH this morning and his sentiments are similar to yours. He basically said he saw it this way. Try to work out your problems to the best of your ability, seek wise counsel and if I can't be worked out then do what you have to. But don't go into marriage with the mindset if it doesn't work out then I'll just get divorced. :nono: I think that is why marriage counseling should be mandatory before anyone one marries.

She'll be alright she just really needs to seek the Lord and let him guide her in the matter. As always she knows she has my shoullder to cry on.
 
mrsjones1 said:
Thanks Shimmie

I deleted the orignal post because I felt that the issue had been addressed and I didnt' want to cause any strife amongst my sisters. Funny enough I was talking to DH this morning and his sentiments are similar to yours. He basically said he saw it this way. Try to work out your problems to the best of your ability, seek wise counsel and if I can't be worked out then do what you have to. But don't go into marriage with the mindset if it doesn't work out then I'll just get divorced. :nono: I think that is why marriage counseling should be mandatory before anyone one marries.

She'll be alright she just really needs to seek the Lord and let him guide her in the matter. As always she knows she has my shoullder to cry on.
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Totally understood and I respect your wisdom in closing the subject.

Blessings on you for being such a wonderful sister and friend to your friend who is in such need of being helped and understood. :Rose:
 
The Father gave me correction on this one.

*sigh*

One can get remarried after divorce, regardless of the reason the divorce occurred. The first link posted still works. The key is to trust and rely on Him, that He will turn our negative situations into good.
 
Sharpened said:
The Father gave me correction on this one.

*sigh*

One can get remarried after divorce, regardless of the reason the divorce occurred. The first link posted still works. The key is to trust and rely on Him, that He will turn our negative situations into good.
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But the problem is that this is not what Jesus Christ taught--I mean, from His very own lips he said that God never wanted or intended for divorce, but men's hearts were hardened. Jesus said that God created man and woman and that a person who divorces his spouse and remarries commits adultery. Unless the first (sacramental) marriage was invalid, then the first marriage still and always will stand, because it's a bond no power on earth can break, as it should be, as marriage is the bedrock and foundation of procreation and childrearing. Because our sinful society has moved SO far away from it, even to the point of allowing mock "gay marriage," we sweep aside these truths.

And even though worldly people/non-Christians give us so much unwarranted flak for so many things, they do have a point--how can we stand up and preach about the sanctity of marriage, etc. when we are on our 2nd, 3rd, or 4th one? When we (general "we") participate in divorce and adultery?

I certainly don't want to jump on anyone individually in this thread, especially when a civil divorce has been obtained for safety and protection (in the case of domestic abuse, severe gambling/addiction, etc.), but I don't like the idea of saying that God or the Bible teaches X about marriage when it actually teaches Y.
 
The hard part for me in all of this is that it puts so much power into the hands of an evil spouse. Say a husband or wife starts acting harmfully or evilly after marriage. The godly spouse loses the freedom to divorce and remarry unless the evil entails adultery. The godly spouse must stay and suffer or leave and be alone -- all because of some OTHER person's behavior. WHAT A SENTENCE! And not even for one's own behavior!!!

It hurts me that God's Word seems to set it up that way. This gives the evil person and behavior the weight and control. This is the toughest Christian thing, for me.

I've read every take on this subject, and this will always pain me extremely deeply, I think.

Lifting prayers for anyone grappling with this.
 
Galadriel said:
But the problem is that this is not what Jesus Christ taught--I mean, from His very own lips he said that God never wanted or intended for divorce, but men's hearts were hardened. Jesus said that God created man and woman and that a person who divorces his spouse and remarries commits adultery. Unless the first (sacramental) marriage was invalid, then the first marriage still and always will stand, because it's a bond no power on earth can break, as it should be, as marriage is the bedrock and foundation of procreation and childrearing. Because our sinful society has moved SO far away from it, even to the point of allowing mock "gay marriage," we sweep aside these truths.

And even though worldly people/non-Christians give us so much unwarranted flak for so many things, they do have a point--how can we stand up and preach about the sanctity of marriage, etc. when we are on our 2nd, 3rd, or 4th one? When we (general "we") participate in divorce and adultery?

I certainly don't want to jump on anyone individually in this thread, especially when a civil divorce has been obtained for safety and protection (in the case of domestic abuse, severe gambling/addiction, etc.), but I don't like the idea of saying that God or the Bible teaches X about marriage when it actually teaches Y.
Click to expand...
The problem is that we do not have the full context of what the Bible teaches because we do not study the history behind what was said. We cannot continue to look at Scripture through the Western lens and expect things to make sense. Also, Yah, through the Scripture has shown us that He can change how we process life; look at the progression of how He expected the Israelites to behave, changing them from slaves dabbling in things contrary to Him to mostly civilized in comparison to the other groups at the time. We each need to ask Him what we are to do, not anyone or anything else.
YvetteWithJoy said:
The hard part for me in all of this is that it puts so much power into the hands of an evil spouse. Say a husband or wife starts acting harmfully or evilly after marriage. The godly spouse loses the freedom to divorce and remarry unless the evil entails adultery. The godly spouse must stay and suffer or leave and be alone -- all because of some OTHER person's behavior. WHAT A SENTENCE! And not even for one's own behavior!!!

It hurts me that God's Word seems to set it up that way. This gives the evil person and behavior the weight and control. This is the toughest Christian thing, for me.

I've read every take on this subject, and this will always pain me extremely deeply, I think.

Lifting prayers for anyone grappling with this.
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, people do not know the history behind what Scripture says, taking it out of context. Unfaithfulness in marriage was not just sexual; there was a contract both parties had to fulfill and the Jews had ways to enforce it. A woman had a right to complain to the leadership if her husband abused her. Two or three of the leaders, sometimes one of the fathers, would approach the husband to get the situation sorted out. If that did not work, they had a bunch of 10 called "minions" who would beat the dude up. If that did not work, she had the right to divorce him.

Before Yahshua was born and during his time, there were debates about what constituted divorce terms. The leaders were asking Yahshua what He thought about the issue. He came down on the side of "only adultery" because some were simply kicking their wives out without her "gets" (divorce papers). Anything that polluted the marriage contract was a grounds for divorce, and everything had to be split 50-50.
 
Sharpened said:
The problem is that we do not have the full context of what the Bible teaches because we do not study the history behind what was said. We cannot continue to look at Scripture through the Western lens and expect things to make sense. Also, Yah, through the Scripture has shown us that He can change how we process life; look at the progression of how He expected the Israelites to behave, changing them from slaves dabbling in things contrary to Him to mostly civilized in comparison to the other groups at the time. We each need to ask Him what we are to do, not anyone or anything else.

As I said earlier, people do not know the history behind what Scripture says, taking it out of context. Unfaithfulness in marriage was not just sexual; there was a contract both parties had to fulfill and the Jews had ways to enforce it. A woman had a right to complain to the leadership if her husband abused her. Two or three of the leaders, sometimes one of the fathers, would approach the husband to get the situation sorted out. If that did not work, they had a bunch of 10 called "minions" who would beat the dude up. If that did not work, she had the right to divorce him.

Before Yahshua was born and during his time, there were debates about what constituted divorce terms. The leaders were asking Yahshua what He thought about the issue. He came down on the side of "only adultery" because some were simply kicking their wives out without her "gets" (divorce papers). Anything that polluted the marriage contract was a grounds for divorce, and everything had to be split 50-50.
Click to expand...

TFS.

That sounds more in line with my understanding of right and freedom and so forth, which I personally believe are very important to God. I'll have to keep studying, factoring in history. Thanks.
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
The hard part for me in all of this is that it puts so much power into the hands of an evil spouse. Say a husband or wife starts acting harmfully or evilly after marriage. The godly spouse loses the freedom to divorce and remarry unless the evil entails adultery. The godly spouse must stay and suffer or leave and be alone -- all because of some OTHER person's behavior. WHAT A SENTENCE! And not even for one's own behavior!!!

It hurts me that God's Word seems to set it up that way. This gives the evil person and behavior the weight and control. This is the toughest Christian thing, for me.

I've read every take on this subject, and this will always pain me extremely deeply, I think.

Lifting prayers for anyone grappling with this.
Click to expand...

I don't believe it puts power in the hands of an evil spouse, but what it does is empower US to take marriage seriously and make reasonable and strong choices concerning courting and choosing a spouse, and learning how to have God at the center of our marriages.

And, in our milksop culture we've gotten fat and comfortable and have forgotten how to take up our crosses and follow Christ.

Is marriage easy? No.

Is the state of celibacy easy? No.

Everyone has their cross.

Whatever state you're in, if you ASK God for the grace to help you follow your vocation and do His will, He WILL answer your prayer. By ourselves, we can do nothing, but with Christ, we can do anything.
 
Sharpened said:
The problem is that we do not have the full context of what the Bible teaches because we do not study the history behind what was said. We cannot continue to look at Scripture through the Western lens and expect things to make sense. Also, Yah, through the Scripture has shown us that He can change how we process life; look at the progression of how He expected the Israelites to behave, changing them from slaves dabbling in things contrary to Him to mostly civilized in comparison to the other groups at the time. We each need to ask Him what we are to do, not anyone or anything else.
Click to expand...

The idea that if we do enough mental gymnastics and twist Scripture to fit our modern ideals is what helped lead us to the disaster we're witnessing in our culture today. Man may fail to hit the mark (i.e., sin), but God is unchanging.

---

And he answered and said unto them, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

They say unto him, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?"

He saith unto them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
(Matthew 19:4-9)

---
This isn't mere opinion or cultural shifts--this is the Word of the Lord saying that marriage is to be between one man and woman, for life.
 
Galadriel said:
I don't believe it puts power in the hands of an evil spouse, but what it does is empower US to take marriage seriously and make reasonable and strong choices concerning courting and choosing a spouse, and learning how to have God at the center of our marriages.

And, in our milksop culture we've gotten fat and comfortable and have forgotten how to take up our crosses and follow Christ.

Is marriage easy? No.

Is the state of celibacy easy? No.

Everyone has their cross.

Whatever state you're in, if you ASK God for the grace to help you follow your vocation and do His will, He WILL answer your prayer. By ourselves, we can do nothing, but with Christ, we can do anything.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand me. My friend married a great guy. For over a decade they had a great life. Then he became a drug addict. Now she is sentenced.

Will you say she didn't take her choice in marriage seriously? How do you know?
 
Galadriel said:
The idea that if we do enough mental gymnastics and twist Scripture to fit our modern ideals is what helped lead us to the disaster we're witnessing in our culture today. Man may fail to hit the mark (i.e., sin), but God is unchanging.

---

And he answered and said unto them, "Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

They say unto him, "Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?"

He saith unto them, "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
(Matthew 19:4-9)

---
This isn't mere opinion or cultural shifts--this is the Word of the Lord saying that marriage is to be between one man and woman, for life.
Click to expand...
Yes, Yah does not change for He has a Plan, a Desire to fulfill. But, He has changed how He deals with us, according to the growth of the human race. People may choose to ignore the context of history and the meaning of words, but His Plan is still unfolding, and changing according to His dynamic Will. Dogma is not a part of His Plan, relationship is. He wants us to seek out His Truth for each of us, not be reliant on Scripture alone. I had to repent (turn away from) parts of the Calvinist doctrine I had agreed with myself. He is enough.

YvetteWithJoy said:
You misunderstand me. My friend married a great guy. For over a decade they had a great life. Then he became a drug addict. Now she is sentenced.

Will you say she didn't take her choice in marriage seriously? How do you know?
Click to expand...
You are wasting your time. Spirit of religion, need I say more?
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
You misunderstand me. My friend married a great guy. For over a decade they had a great life. Then he became a drug addict. Now she is sentenced.

Will you say she didn't take her choice in marriage seriously? How do you know?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say she didn't take her choice in marriage seriously. In fact, I could understand why she'd seek a civil divorce. I mentioned earlier about protection/safety such as domestic abuse, gambling and drug addiction. There are definitely cases where for their own spiritual and physical safety and well being, spouses *must* get out and not be legally and financially bound to someone who's addicted to drugs, wasting the family's funds and bill money on gambling, or a violent or drunken abuser.

But the majority of marriages don't fall apart in our society due to these egregious cases--they fall apart because of money, lack of communication, and lack of commitment:

why people are divorcing in the united states (source HERE)
Lack of commitment is the most common reason given by divorcing couples according to a recent national survey. Here are the reasons given and their percentages:

  • Lack of commitment 73%
  • Argue too much 56%
  • Infidelity 55%
  • Married too young 46%
  • Unrealistic expectations 45%
  • Lack of equality in the relationship 44%
  • Lack of preparation for marriage 41%
  • Abuse 25%
(Respondents often cited more that one reason, therefore the percentages add up to much more than 100 percent)
 
Galadriel said:
I don't believe it puts power in the hands of an evil spouse, but what it does is empower US to take marriage seriously and make reasonable and strong choices concerning courting and choosing a spouse, and learning how to have God at the center of our marriages.

And, in our milksop culture we've gotten fat and comfortable and have forgotten how to take up our crosses and follow Christ.

Is marriage easy? No.

Is the state of celibacy easy? No.

Everyone has their cross.

Whatever state you're in, if you ASK God for the grace to help you follow your vocation and do His will, He WILL answer your prayer. By ourselves, we can do nothing, but with Christ, we can do anything.
Click to expand...

The "neat" thing about how it does not give my friend's drug-addict-after-10-years-of-marriage spouse any power in your estimation: He just straight up tells her: "It's me as I am or no one for you, babe. Or God will have you burn in hell."

This is a hard thing. Her poor children. Her finances. The characters being introduced into all of their lives. I almost gasped when I read your words "fat and comfortable." Wow.
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
The "neat" thing about how it does not give my friend's drug-addict-after-10-years-of-marriage spouse any power in your estimation: He just straight up tells her: "It's me as I am or no one for you, babe. Or God will have you burn in hell."

This is a hard thing. Her poor children. Her finances. The characters being introduced into all of their lives. I almost gasped when I read your words "fat and comfortable." Wow.
Click to expand...
Does your friend need prayer or advice?
 
Galadriel said:
I wouldn't say she didn't take her choice in marriage seriously. In fact, I could understand why she'd seek a civil divorce. I mentioned earlier about protection/safety such as domestic abuse, gambling and drug addiction. There are definitely cases where for their own spiritual and physical safety and well being, spouses *must* get out and not be legally and financially bound to someone who's addicted to drugs, wasting the family's funds and bill money on gambling, or a violent or drunken abuser.

But the majority of marriages don't fall apart in our society due to these egregious cases--they fall apart because of money, lack of communication, and lack of commitment:

why people are divorcing in the united states (source HERE)
Lack of commitment is the most common reason given by divorcing couples according to a recent national survey. Here are the reasons given and their percentages:

  • Lack of commitment 73%
  • Argue too much 56%
  • Infidelity 55%
  • Married too young 46%
  • Unrealistic expectations 45%
  • Lack of equality in the relationship 44%
  • Lack of preparation for marriage 41%
  • Abuse 25%
(Respondents often cited more that one reason, therefore the percentages add up to much more than 100 percent)
Click to expand...

Even granting this, my point still stands:

If there is an evilly behaving spouse, the rule of only being free to leave if the evil involves adultery is empowering for the evil spouse in a very real way.

I'll just agree to disagree with you, sis. Much love.
 
Sharpened said:
Yes, Yah does not change for He has a Plan, a Desire to fulfill. But, He has changed how He deals with us, according to the growth of the human race. People may choose to ignore the context of history and the meaning of words, but His Plan is still unfolding, and changing according to His dynamic Will. Dogma is not a part of His Plan, relationship is. He wants us to seek out His Truth for each of us, not be reliant on Scripture alone. I had to repent (turn away from) parts of the Calvinist doctrine I had agreed with myself. He is enough.

You are wasting your time. Spirit of religion, need I say more?
Click to expand...

Well it's good to hear that you no longer hold to certain Calvinist ideals (I rather liked John Wesley and the Methodists far more than Calvinism, JMHO), and while I do not hold to "sola scriptura," (as defined by Martin Luther) I DO hold that Scripture IS the inerrant Word of God and sufficiently teaches and guides us as to Who God is, His plan of salvation, and His requirements and moral commands for us. God gave us the Bible, and it is His Word, and what Scripture teaches is us is completely true, *always,* even when people go crazy and think they know better than His Word.

However, saying God "changes how He deals with us" is a problematic position to take. First, it assumes that God is mutable, or changeable, especially when it comes to objective morality--He is not. It also assumes that God can or will declare sin good--which, again, He would never do, since it's against His nature. It's the same argument secularists make as to why we should accept homosexual acts or unions because of the idea that since people have devolved into sin that God should somehow change and be "dynamic" and allow it.

Also, there is no such thing as "truth for each of us." Truth is OBJECTIVE, not subjective.

And how can we have a relationship with God if we are also in relationship with sin?
 
Galadriel said:
Well it's good to hear that you no longer hold to certain Calvinist ideals (I rather liked John Wesley and the Methodists far more than Calvinism, JMHO), and while I do not hold to "sola scriptura," (as defined by Martin Luther) I DO hold that Scripture IS the inerrant Word of God and sufficiently teaches and guides us as to Who God is, His plan of salvation, and His requirements and moral commands for us. God gave us the Bible, and it is His Word, and what Scripture teaches is us is completely true, *always,* even when people go crazy and think they know better than His Word.

However, saying God "changes how He deals with us" is a problematic position to take. First, it assumes that God is mutable, or changeable, especially when it comes to objective morality--He is not. It also assumes that God can or will declare sin good--which, again, He would never do, since it's against His nature. It's the same argument secularists make as to why we should accept homosexual acts or unions because of the idea that since people have devolved into sin that God should somehow change and be "dynamic" and allow it.

Also, there is no such thing as "truth for each of us." Truth is OBJECTIVE, not subjective.

And how can we have a relationship with God if we are also in relationship with sin?
Click to expand...
You don't know Him.
 
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