Discounting feelings or insulting?

[Ladely]

So I was talking to a close friend/bf (we were drinking and having a nice conversation in general) and he says something in such a way that caught me off guard. I felt that it was asked in an insensitive manner. He's said some sketchy things before and I just let it go even though it kind of came across odd/wrong. That's not the norm. His manner of speaking is more direct than others (highly intelligent, "confident" and synonyms)

I chose this time to calmly explain that I felt that his statement seemed a bit insensitive to me. It seemed as good a time as any and if not now, then when (?). I tried to explain it in as non-confrontational/non-aggressive a manner as possible, but he automatically took it as an insult before I could finish explaining and without out even asking me why I felt that way (I was pretty much cut off rather quickly). I had absolutely no intention of insulting him and tried to avoid it without discounting my own true feelings. The intention was to say that and explain that I know it wasn't meant to be insensitive and move on with the conversation. An argument ensued afterward that escalated quickly. No physical aggression, but emotions flared.

He was leading up to taking me out this weekend for a special occasion, and I knew that. I immediately realized that he didn't mean it the way he said it, but I felt a strong urge to tell him (like I said before) as gently as possible that it came across in an insensitive tone (especially since I don't usually say anything). I can relate to him in a way because my tone can come across as off to people too sometimes. The difference is that I wouldn't immediately go off on someone and accuse them of insulting me.

My point to him: The statement came across in a way that made me uncomfortable and I want to (be able to) openly communicate with you.

His point to me: You insulted me and you are absolutely wrong for that.

I tried to explain my true intent, but he is adamant that I am wrong in the entire situation because I took what he said wrong when he was trying to do something nice for me and insulted him in the process.

I hope this wasn't too confusing. Can someone please explain to me or give some perspective on how I am "absolutely wrong" in this situation. Now I feel like I can't explain/share anything I'm feeling with him. I'm not about to let him gaslight me into thinking I'm wrong all the time. Surely we are all entitled to our feelings and to express them.

Idk what to do but let it go and move on. I find it odd/hypocritical that he also calls me stubborn when he is just the same.

Guess I just need to pick my battles more carefully. :-/

 

[Kkinds]

I don't think you were wrong. If you're uncomfortable about something with someone your close with you should be able to communicate with them openly about it. There is a reason you felt some type of way about this situation. AND the fact that you said it in a non-aggressive, calm way is awesome. I would revisit the conversation or talk about communication in general when everything calms down. I suggest that you start the convo like "If I ever did/do a thing to make you feel uncomfortable I would want you to tell me..."

I hope everything works out in your favor!

 

[Ladely]

Thanks, I'm sure I'm not crazy! Lol. We actually did wait a couple of days before talking it out, but got nowhere really. I still think he jumped over what I was trying to say just to stick to his point. Like am I missing something or what?

We just see the situation completely differently. Besides this, we don't really fight or disagree.

It's like he's been the wrong one, matured to see that, correct himself, and be able to help others see it in themselves, and evolved right past that to become so confident that he has it figured our that he believes that he is never wrong. How do you deal with people like that?

I guess I'll just give it more time or more likely just drop it all together.

 

[Theresamonet]

What did he say that was "insensitive" and what did you say in response, that was "insulting"?

 

[FoxxyLocs]

No you aren't wrong, and if you let him talk you out of expressing your feelings, he'll do it every time. Been there, done that.

He doesn't like being in the wrong, especially if he didn't intend to offend you. But either way he should accept your experience and apologize and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but he makes it a bigger deal when he tries to discount your feelings and make you feel like you're doing something wrong by letting him know you were offended.

You don't want to be in a relationship where you can't say "I didn't like that" or "that hurt my feelings."

 

[Farida]

It is difficult to provide insight without knowing what was said. You are providing your view and your interpretation. On the one hand you may be completely right while on the other hand he may be right and you may be hypersensitive and maybe insulting him like he says.

 

[Theresamonet]

How are ya'll telling her that she is not wrong, when ya'll don't even know what was said?

 

[Ladely]

No you aren't wrong, and if you let him talk you out of expressing your feelings, he'll do it every time. Been there, done that.

He doesn't like being in the wrong, especially if he didn't intend to offend you. But either way he should accept your experience and apologize and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but he makes it a bigger deal when he tries to discount your feelings and make you feel like you're doing something wrong by letting him know you were offended.

You don't want to be in a relationship where you can't say "I didn't like that" or "that hurt my feelings."

EXACTLY!!!!

What did he say that was "insensitive" and what did you say in response, that was "insulting"?

Example without getting too personal:

Him: What if I came to visit this weekend for special occasion?

Me: Well, Thursday I have an appt and-----(cut off)

Him: What do you have to do??? <------ (this comment was said in such a way that it immediately came off as insensitive or offensive. It's difficult to type out rather than repeat verbally to convey the tone)

Me: *this is what I was thinking and somewhat replied* Well dang! Did you have to say it like I have absolutely nothing to do and you know it? I know your schedule is jam packed an all, but let me at least finish what I was saying. ----commence explanation that it came across harsh to me----

Him: I'm trying to do something nice for you and you're gonna call me insensitive???

Me: Not to insult you, I'm just trying to share my feelings (b/c I really felt I needed to at the moment) in an honest way without discounting what was felt. (Which is why I made sure to include that I felt that is was an insensitive comment rather than flat out saying you're insensitive to not to make it an insult)
----Rest of argument----

It is difficult to provide insight without knowing what was said. You are providing your view and your interpretation. On the one hand you may be completely right while on the other hand he may be right and you may be hypersensitive and maybe insulting him like he says.

Yes, and I'm trying to be objective about the situation as I usually do. I like to look at things from all perspectives, but this is just not clicking based on what happened. So, I'm asking based on what is given (I'm not intentionally trying to leave anything out) could there be something I am missing?

I'm inclined to believe that he is hypersensitive because I really tried to convey it as gently as possible and asked him to explain why he took it the way he did. His response is basically "you insulted me and won't own up to it when I did nothing wrong except try to do something nice for you. You have nothing to be offended about".

I don't want to drag it out and make any bigger a deal out of it, but I don't wanna drop it either. erplexed


Maybe it's because we had both been drinking (we felt sober though) or I'm PMSing or something...

 

[FoxxyLocs]

I'm taking her at her word that she calmly and politely told him that what he said bothered her, if that's the case and his response was to be upset and insulted, that's a problem. If that's all she wants to share, then there's my take on it.

If she wants to come back and give details, maybe my answer will change, but in general, you should be able to tell someone that something they said rubbed you the wrong way without having them start an argument (or whatever you want to call it) about it.

ETA: After reading the extended version, my first answer stands.

 

[Ladely]

I'm taking her at her word that she calmly and politely told him that what he said bothered her, if that's the case and his response was to be upset and insulted, that's a problem. If that's all she wants to share, then there's my take on it.

If she wants to come back and give details, maybe my answer will change, but in general, you should be able to tell someone that something they said rubbed you the wrong way without having them start an argument (or whatever you want to call it) about it.

ETA: I see you saw the reply. Ok.

I'm usually the one to say "intense discussion" rather than argument. Really non-confrontational So please don't believe I'm actually a devil woman or something feigning being nice.


I actually apologized for mistaking the tone and hurting his feelings. Mistake? I dunno. Did he apologize to me? Nope. Said he doesn't need to apologize when I was completely in the wrong. He really is using these absolute terms.

 

[FoxxyLocs]

I replied, see above.

I'm usually the one to say "intense discussion" rather than argument. Really non-confrontational So please don't believe I'm actually a devil woman or something feigning being nice.

I actually apologized for mistaking the tone and hurting his feelings. Mistake? I dunno. Did he apologize to me? Nope. Said he doesn't need to apologize when I was completely in the wrong. He really is using these absolute terms.

Yeah that's a red flag. Not something to dump him for at this point (I'm assuming you guys are newly dating), but definitely don't ignore it. Talk it out and see if he sees the error of his ways. If it continues to be a problem I'd dump him. It only gets worse. See the narcissist thread. Just keep your eye on him.

 

[Theresamonet]

Wow. Are you two dating? From that exchange, both of you sound extra tender and sensitive. lol

Had I been him, I would have hit you with a "Sorry you feel that way, and changed the subject.

 

[Kindheart]

Yeah that's a red flag. Not something to dump him for at this point (I'm assuming you guys are newly dating), but definitely don't ignore it. Talk it out and see if he sees the error of his ways. If it continues to be a problem I'd dump him. It only gets worse. See the narcissist thread. Just keep your eye on him.

Yup . Sounds a bit like a narcissist guy I know . When asked to express his opinion he would reply with "I don't need to explain anything. "Stop asking/doing /talking" "You need to ../You should .../Dont this and that .
Very direct and agressive.

 

[Ladely]

Wow. Are you two dating? From that exchange, both of you sound extra tender and sensitive. lol

I generally will not take things so personally, but this can't always slide.

Had I been him, I would have hit you with a "Sorry you feel that way, and changed the subject.

That's kinda what I did eventually because I was upset that he totally skipped over what I was trying to say.


I'll go a little deeper into the narcissist thread like FoxxyLocs suggested.

 

[Ladely]

Yup . Sounds a bit like a narcissist guy I know . When asked to express his opinion he would reply with "I don't need to explain anything. "Stop asking/doing /talking" "You need to ../You should .../Dont this and that .
Very direct and agressive.

The thing is, I wouldn't describe him as an abusive jerk or anything like that. You can tell that he deeply cares about people he is close to. He is definitely direct and (non-physically) aggressive like you said. I'm wondering if this would develop into something worse later. I'm pretty positive it wouldn't evolve to anything physical. We've known each other for a while, and if it did, I'd give him a run for his money. It is early, so I'll keep an I on him like someone suggested.

 

[Farida]

Is he your friend or bf? Maybe he is being passive-aggressive because of the uncertainty in the relationship. If he continues this type of your behavior without taking your comments and feelings into account then what's the point of continuing the relationship?

 

[*CherryPie*]

He doesn't sound like a narcissist. If he's one, then you are also...because you both are behaving exactly the same way.

I generally will not take things so personally, but this can't always slide.




That's kinda what I did eventually because I was upset that he totally skipped over what I was trying to say.


I'll go a little deeper into the narcissist thread like FoxxyLocs suggested.

 

[Layluh]

If you calmly told him you have something to do and he got mad at that... I see it as a red flag.

And he's trying to make you feel obligated by holding over your head that he was gonna do something nice for you. You're under no obligation to hang out with or do anything for anyone FYI.

Didn't we just have a thread on women's spaces and how no one respects them?

 

[Ladely]

Is he your friend or bf? Maybe he is being passive-aggressive because of the uncertainty in the relationship. If he continues this type of your behavior without taking your comments and feelings into account then what's the point of continuing the relationship?

Boyfriend. There's no uncertainty. I said close friend/bf before because we both agree that we are best friends too.

He doesn't sound like a narcissist. If he's one, then you are also...because you both are behaving exactly the same way.

After looking at a few definitions of the term narcissist, I'm pretty sure I'm not. If I am, then there are a loooooootttttttt of people with personality disorders walking around.



Thanks Ladies!

 

[lux10023]

yeah i dont like to be dismissed and i wouldn't have apologized--you give ppl power by apologizing when you didn't do anything wrong

continue to watch his communication style and if he is still being jerky--you can show him better than you can tell him--men respond to actions

mr I'm always right or mr i will not apologize making you out to be the bad guy--can KIM

Yeah that's a red flag. Not something to dump him for at this point (I'm assuming you guys are newly dating), but definitely don't ignore it. Talk it out and see if he sees the error of his ways. If it continues to be a problem I'd dump him. It only gets worse. See the narcissist thread. Just keep your eye on him.

 

[LiftedUp]

I think I understand his point of view. I think that your choice of words is the problem and may be incorrect. Do you mean, "sometimes when I'm speaking, you interject and your tone comes across a bit brash"? If I had this conversation with someone:

Him: What if I came to visit this weekend for special occasion?

Me: Well, Thursday I have an appt and-----(cut off)

Him: What do you have to do???

and he/she told me that I was being insensitive, I would be caught off guard and feel a little insulted because there is nothing insensitive about asking "What do you have to do?" if someone says, "I have an appointment".

 

[Ladely]

I think I understand his point of view. I think that your choice of words is the problem and may be incorrect. Do you mean, "sometimes when I'm speaking, you interject and your tone comes across a bit brash"? If I had this conversation with someone:



and he/she told me that I was being insensitive, I would be caught off guard and feel a little insulted because there is nothing insensitive about asking "What do you have to do?" if someone says, "I have an appointment".

1st bold: yes, that's what I mean.

2nd bold: Problem is that I was caught off guard and felt a little insulted first and tried to communicate that to clear up the misunderstanding and bring to his attention that his tone (just as important as choice of words to me) and timing (abruptly cut off) was harsh b/c it is common with him even though not usually directed at me. I understand this bit about tone because I have the same issue sometimes and actively work to improve it.

The main issue is that it went to another level completely off from what I first expressed and the other ladies were spot on about the "I'm always right, ..." attitude. I get that he felt insulted too, but why completely negate or ignore what I first brought up? The convo really went to how I should apologize for being wrong after that.


Really wouldn't bother me except that it escalated after that. This may very well be a dumpable offense, but it's early enough where I think more time is needed.

I do appreciate the opposite perspective though.

 

[*CherryPie*]

That's what I said. You're not...and he's not.

Boyfriend. There's no uncertainty. I said close friend/bf before because we both agree that we are best friends too.





After looking at a few definitions of the term narcissist, I'm pretty sure I'm not. If I am, then there are a loooooootttttttt of people with personality disorders walking around.



Thanks Ladies!

 

[*CherryPie*]

That was the silliest argument. I hope y'all are not still angry over that.

 

[LaBelleLL]

Without knowing what was exactly said - I knew what you meant OP. I had to recently deal with someone like this and it was over small issues. Basically whenever I expressed my opinions on how something made me feel (which was like 3 times), it was always an issue and I was always viewed as being wrong. Or I was always responsible for how I felt as opposed to him to take accountability.

I ended up having to excuse myself completely from the relationship bc it wasn't for me. It's the small stuff that tells me what I need to know about someone. I need to be able to freely express myself (in a respectful and non confrontational way of course) and I could not do that in the relationship. It was so bad that I lied to him to get out of the relationship.

It's hard for me to tell what to do however bc you know what you want and what your limits are. You also know the true nature of your relationship with the person and how it genuinely is. Your OP is a snippet of it.

It may be worth it to give it some time and see how things go the next time you attempt to express yourself.

 

[Naveah2050]

I think you were being over sensitive and a little critical at an inopportune time - if you knew he was trying to ask you somewhere special why did you feel the need to ruin the moment by criticizing him over a relatively benign comment - I have been guilty of this myself so I
Imparting this in case it helps and not to make
You feel like you were wrong.

 

[LLicious85]

Oh wow, this looks pretty heavy. So the boyfriend is a narcissist for having a different perspective of a situation? Two people experienced one situation differently. That does not make him a narcissist or her wrong for feeling what she felt. I am all for support but attacking the boyfriend's character over one incident? Isn't that "discounting his feelings"

Food for thought.

 

[vani]

No you aren't wrong, and if you let him talk you out of expressing your feelings, he'll do it every time. Been there, done that.

He doesn't like being in the wrong, especially if he didn't intend to offend you. But either way he should accept your experience and apologize and move on. It doesn't have to be a big deal, but he makes it a bigger deal when he tries to discount your feelings and make you feel like you're doing something wrong by letting him know you were offended.

You don't want to be in a relationship where you can't say "I didn't like that" or "that hurt my feelings."

This! You are not wrong, OP.

Any update? Ladely

 

[LiftedUp]

1st bold: yes, that's what I mean.

2nd bold: Problem is that I was caught off guard and felt a little insulted first and tried to communicate that to clear up the misunderstanding and bring to his attention that his tone (just as important as choice of words to me) and timing (abruptly cut off) was harsh b/c it is common with him even though not usually directed at me. I understand this bit about tone because I have the same issue sometimes and actively work to improve it.

The main issue is that it went to another level completely off from what I first expressed and the other ladies were spot on about the "I'm always right, ..." attitude. I get that he felt insulted too, but why completely negate or ignore what I first brought up? The convo really went to how I should apologize for being wrong after that.


Really wouldn't bother me except that it escalated after that. This may very well be a dumpable offense, but it's early enough where I think more time is needed.

I do appreciate the opposite perspective though.

My perspective isn't opposite. It's just that your choice of words didn't get your point across not that your feelings are invalid.

 

[Ladely]

Ok so without multiquoting everyone, I pretty much agree with and appreciate all the replies.


*CherryPie* Yeah it was a silly argument, which is why I was like wth is going on erplexed

No, we're not fighting over it anymore. I'm just going to see where it goes from here. The situation is exactly as LaBelleLL described it. This is like the only thing wrong in the relationship so far, so I don't want to ruin something generally good too early. I'm thinking if we were married, I wouldn't jump to a divorce over this. Not a dealbreaker yet.

I think you were being over sensitive and a little critical at an inopportune time - if you knew he was trying to ask you somewhere special why did you feel the need to ruin the moment by criticizing him over a relatively benign comment - I have been guilty of this myself so I
Imparting this in case it helps and not to make
You feel like you were wrong.

Ya know what? I had to be extra sensitive. I'm thinking PMS made me so sensitive about it because I'm usually not (tmi- period started like a couple days after incident so now I'm like maybe that was it).

PMS aside, I really felt the need at the time to let him know because it had happened before, but I let it go. I tend to keep my feelings bottled up instead of expressing them (this is with everyone, family, friends, etc). We should be able to share our feelings with each other at this point and I thought he would have handled it better than that. So for now, I'm a little hesitant to tell him anything.