Creationism & Evolution

Gen. 1.1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 1.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Can we really put a time on this beginning? I don't think so because it's not a part of the six days of creation.

You said : God created the heaven and the earth, then the earth is part of the creation and by definition not old, right?

Can I say : God created the human, then the human is part of the creation and by definition not old, and by definition a baby, right?

Wrong : God created the human, a man, not a baby. Even if you think that the earth, as a planet, is a part of the creation (that is not specified in the Bible), you can not say that God created a young earth.

God created everything fully formed. He created Adam a grown man. He created Eve a grown woman. He created the earth a "grown earth". That doesn't have anything to do with their age in terms of years. Apply it to Adam. Because he was created grown, are you going to say God created an old Adam? And it so, how is that logical?

God created the physical earth in 1 day, according to Genesis 1:1-5.
 
God created the physical earth in 1 day, according to Genesis 1:1-5.

If you understand that the earth, as a planet, has been created in day 1; fine, it is your understanding!

But the Bible says : in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
We have no clue about this beginning.

In day 1 :
Gen. 1.3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 1.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 1.5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

It is just to clarify.

Blessing!
 
God created everything fully formed. He created Adam a grown man. He created Eve a grown woman. He created the earth a "grown earth". That doesn't have anything to do with their age in terms of years. Apply it to Adam. Because he was created grown, are you going to say God created an old Adam? And it so, how is that logical?

God created the physical earth in 1 day, according to Genesis 1:1-5.

I know what it is a grown man.

How old must be a planet like the earth to be considered a grown earth???
Sincerely, I don't know and we don't know. And that's the point!
 
Meaning it was fully functional and did not have to grow or evolve. That the trees where fully grown. The grass was already there and didn't have to grow from seed. Basically, the earth was created ready to live in like it is now.

Again, how old are you considering Adam to be in light of the fact that he was created a grown man in one day? It's the same principle.
 
If you understand that the earth, as a planet, has been created in day 1; fine, it is your understanding!

But the Bible says : in the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
We have no clue about this beginning.

In day 1 :
Gen. 1.3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 1.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 1.5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

It is just to clarify.

Blessing!

Yes, this is how I understand it. I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. And I believe that Genesis 1:1-5 are a whole unit and thus the physical earth, the planet, was created in one day. I think our fundamental premises are different and for this reason, I am willing to agree to disagree with you.

Blessings to you as well.
 
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewsevolution.html


Professor Ismar Schorsch, chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary of America, writes that:

The Torah's story of creation is not intended as a scientific treatise, worthy of equal time with Darwin's theory of evolution in the curriculum of our public schools. The notes it strikes in its sparse and majestic narrative offer us an orientation to the Torah's entire religious worldview and value system. Creation is taken up first not because the subject has chronological priority but rather to ground basic religious beliefs in the very nature of things. And I would argue that their power is quite independent of the scientific context in which they were first enunciated.

Rabbi David J. Fine, who has authorized official responsa for the Conservative movement's

Rabbi Michael Schwab writes:

...the Jewish view on the first set of questions is much closer to the picture painted by adherents to intelligent design than to those who are strict Darwinians. Judaism, as a religion, and certainly Conservative Judaism, sees creation as a purposeful process directed by God, however each individual defines the Divine. This is clearly in consonance with the theory of Intelligent Design. What Darwin sees as random, we see as the miraculous and natural unfolding of God’s subtle and beautiful plan.
...However, as unlikely as it may seem, this does not mean for one moment that Judaism’s view rejects wholesale the veracity of Darwin’s theory. In fact, I believe that it is easy to incorporate Darwin and Intelligent design into a meaningful conception of how we humans came into being...
We have frameworks built into our system to integrate the findings of science into our religious and theological beliefs. That is because we believe that the natural world, and the way it works, was created by God and therefore its workings must be consistent with our religious beliefs.
...One of the most well known ways our tradition has been able to hold onto both the scientific theory of evolution as well as the concept of a purposeful creation was by reading the creation story in Genesis in a more allegorical sense. One famous medieval commentary proclaims that the days of creation, as outlined in the book of Beres hit , could be seen as representative of the stages of creation and not literal 24 hour periods. Thus each Biblical day could have accounted for thousands or even millions of years. In that way the progression according to both evolution and the Torah remains essentially the same: first the elements were created, then the waters, the plants, the animals, and finally us. Therefore, Genesis and Darwin can both be right in a factual analysis even while we acknowledge that our attitudes towards these shared facts are shaped much more strongly by the Torah – we agree how the process unfolded but disagree that it was random.
Parshat Noah -- November 4, 2005, How Did We Get Here? Michael Schwab
 
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Meaning it was fully functional and did not have to grow or evolve. That the trees where fully grown. The grass was already there and didn't have to grow from seed. Basically, the earth was created ready to live in like it is now.

Again, how old are you considering Adam to be in light of the fact that he was created a grown man in one day? It's the same principle.


What you just said is totally contradictory to the verse I pointed out earlier:

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree. Genesis 1:24
 
Why isn't it of sound doctrine and who said so? Did man say so? Where is it written in scriptures? The purpose for mentioning the Book of Jubilees was to research it. Man (mankind) does have an agenda. He will give you just what he wants you to know and tell you that it is gospel. He never wants you to read for yourself.:perplexed

i post mainly in response to the text that is written, not the people who write them. i had no idea you were the one who mentioned jubilees.

and again i say:

be careful when reading GNOSTIC TEXTS. they are not considered sound doctrine. (research "gnostic texts" before you actually begin/if you decide to read them).

also, be careful WHO you take advice from. (I John 4:1).

always be sure to do your own research and ask God to give you the revelation thereof. some people on here have their own agenda, not after Christs. :perplexed:sad:
 
i think she, rafikichick92, means "mature" when she, rafikichick92, says "grown"....
Meaning it was fully functional and did not have to grow or evolve.

also, the following does not appear grown or mature to me, reading it literally, not interpreting....
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void
as i read further, i see that he separates the water from land, heavens from earth, creates flora (that grows from the ground) and fauna and man. that seems like a grown, mature earth to me (not a formless void). i'm just saying.

 
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Why isn't it of sound doctrine and who said so? Did man say so? Where is it written in scriptures? The purpose for mentioning the Book of Jubilees was to research it. Man (mankind) does have an agenda. He will give you just what he wants you to know and tell you that it is gospel. He never wants you to read for yourself.:perplexed


i like to read all kinds of things. of course that does not mean i believe it.

man did decide what would be included in the bible and what would be left out.

i believe the editing process was done with a heart toward God and the intent to compile as much truth or word in one place as possible.

the general base line measuring stick is that NT must confirm OT.

we must let God's Holy Spirit lead guide and direct us to all truth.

that said, i plan on reading texts that were not cannonized for information. but i choose to only believe/follow what is in the bible & nothing outside of that.

i just learned this year that oddly, some people actually dispute Paul as an apostle. of course, i like other christians, was taught he is an apostle. paul himself says he is. but the bible lays out the "rules" for being an apostle and one was he had to have walked with jesus (pre-crucifixion). since paul does not fit that, some scholars say he is not a "real" apostle.

for your reading pleasure (regarding "authorized" books of the bible/the cannon):
http://www.bible-researcher.com/canon.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
 
Hello all,

My husband and I recently began homeschooling for a combination of reasons and one of them had to do with religion. Our curriculum includes Bible reading and scripture memorization and learning the catechism.

My daughter is working with material for the 3rd grade and we've started talking about dinosaurs and that is where my personal beliefs have been challenged...

Before now, I've never given much thought about whether or not I believe in evolution or creationism. This experience requires me to look at both views and make a decision. Prior to now, I just took the view that the creation days were not 24 hour days and actually took millions of years. This is based on a scripture about a day to God is like a thousand years to us. Unfortunately, I read some material that threw a wrench in that theory.

If the fall of Adam and Eve introduced sin and death to the world, then how could millions of animals have lived and died before Adam and Eve were created?

I'd love to hear your viewpoints on this. I haven't decided on my views yet, but I'm praying on it.

The bolded above is because God is longsuffering and patient. I believe in creationism.
 
Goldie,

I just want to commend you and your husband for making the decision to homeschool your daughter, to bring her up knowing the Holy Scriptures.

Regarding the question at hand, I specifically share the perspective the days were actually 24 hour periods. I also agree that there is Scriptural evidence of dinosaurs as pointed out in Job.

May God bless you and your family.
 
^^^^^
Divya!!! Is that roti in your signature! I haven't had any good roti since college... if you have a recipe, please share. :lick:

Thanks for the encouragement. She had such a hard time in public school and she has blossomed since we started homeschooling. It's just as much of an education for me as it is for her. Bless you.
 
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