CHRISTIANITY AND SAVAGES

8HoursFromHome

8HoursFromHome

New Member
This is inspired by another thread...it got me thinking...
It was very recently brought to my attention that there are tribes of 'primitive' people who are encouraged/required to engage in male/male sexual activity. In an article, it was stated that these (and other less extreme practices) are slowly dying because of the intereference of Christian evangelists/saviors.

How do you feel about the imperialist attitudes of these Christian folk? I personally don't feel that our 'saved' society is any better off than non-saved people. The only reason something like this turns our stomachs is because we were taught that it is wrong in OUR society. There are some less extreme cultural differences that are/have been lost because of this need for Christians to assimilate these beautiful people.

From my perspective, cultures evolve exactly they way they NEED to to be able to survive their specific set of circumstances. The sudden changes imposed upon them by outsiders ALWAYS leads to their extinction.

Thoughts please...
 
displacedcreole said:
This is inspired by another thread...it got me thinking...
It was very recently brought to my attention that there are tribes of 'primitive' people who are encouraged/required to engage in male/male sexual activity. In an article, it was stated that these (and other less extreme practices) are slowly dying because of the intereference of Christian evangelists/saviors.

How do you feel about the imperialist attitudes of these Christian folk? I personally don't feel that our 'saved' society is any better off than non-saved people. The only reason something like this turns our stomachs is because we were taught that it is wrong in OUR society. There are some less extreme cultural differences that are/have been lost because of this need for Christians to assimilate these beautiful people.

From my perspective, cultures evolve exactly they way they NEED to to be able to survive their specific set of circumstances. The sudden changes imposed upon them by outsiders ALWAYS leads to their extinction.

Thoughts please...
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hmm... coming from a person who believes that the Book of Enoch is the inspired Word of YHWH. my perspectives would probably be way way different and people would probably think it's out there
BUT it's an explosive topic and I'd like to see what my Christian sisters think.
 
I personally don't feel like Im better than anyone. I just know who I believe in. And I know where Im going. Im not perfect. I don't try to tell others how to live. That's not my job. Jesus reaches out to everyone. BUt it's up to you to accept and believe in Him. He doesn't force you. There are no perfect Christians, everyone is sinful. It's wrong to lump all Christians in one basket. We need to be taken individually, just like any other group. And trust me, everyone claiming to be Christian isn't really a Christian.

But after re-reading your post, can you explain how a culture can evolve from male/male sexual activity.
 
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I'm not lumping anyone together. I'm asking other Christians how they feel about these particular groups of Christians behavior regarding their invasion of a non-Christian group for their (supposed) benefit.
 
uniquely made said:
I personally don't feel like Im better than anyone. I just know who I believe in. And I know where Im going. Im not perfect. I don't try to tell others how to live. That's not my job. Jesus reaches out to everyone. BUt it's up to you to accept and believe in Him. He doesn't force you. There are no perfect Christians, everyone is sinful. It's wrong to lump all Christians in one basket. We need to be taken individually, just like any other group. And trust me, everyone claiming to be Christian isn't really a Christian.

But after re-reading your post, can you explain how a culture can evolve from male/male sexual activity.
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This here is a :perplexed:nono: whole different issue. I think that tribe has evolved to do that (for whatever their reason is) NOT that the tribe has evolved FROM that. Apparently there is still female/male interaction - they're STILL here. Maybe it really does boost their potency, don't know, not a scientist. Here's a link to the article, sounds like you have your own set of questions - http://www.gettingit.com/article/56

From what I'm reading in your post, it sounds like you don't condone what these groups have done for many many years.

I really don't get the vibe that Black American Christians have that imperialistic attitude. I believe it's because Black American Christians sought religion as a savior and the European whites used it as a vehicle for oppression, destruction and whatever other evil thing they've done.

Someone stop me here if I'm getting way off track...
 
Feelings are irrelevant in the face of the Truth we are called to give. Those believers who attempt to force the world into always get the opposite effect of their goals, but refuse to see it. Why? It is God's job to save people, not ours; we are to proclaim His Truth and live contrary to the world.

Also, keep in mind one thing: no group has any monopoly on any aspect of human behavior. Do not let your opinion of religion blind you to the faults of others.

Would it surprise you that the elites who believe they own this world also practice this? Many of these people claim descendants from ancient, royal bloodlines and strive to keep it pure. Why are they now giving a platform to allow others to learn about it?
 
Nymphe said:
Feelings are irrelevant in the face of the Truth we are called to give. Those believers who attempt to force the world into always get the opposite effect of their goals, but refuse to see it. Why? It is God's job to save people, not ours; we are to proclaim His Truth and live contrary to the world.

Also, keep in mind one thing: no group has any monopoly on any aspect of human behavior. Do not let your opinion of religion blind you to the faults of others.

Would it surprise you that the elites who believe they own this world also practice this? Many of these people claim descendants from ancient, royal bloodlines and strive to keep it pure. Why are they now giving a platform to allow others to learn about it?
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You pretty much touch my standpoint. From what I understand about Enoch.. But My input would be considered wack lol
 
To luthiengirlie, you have expressed twice that your opinions would be"'wack" or " way way different". I have thrown the question out there, feel free to expound. I am not here to condemn, but to learn...
 
My View is this. Enoch speaks about how two groups of angels rebelled against Adonai and fell One was lucifer (WE ALL KNOW THAT STORY) and the other were two angels. They were complaining to Adonai about"men are stupid they know nothing why did u create them, we need to teach them" so Adonai says..go ahead. They get to earth and see how pretty the animals and human women are. They make a pact among themselves and say well we'll mate with them and no matter what happens we'll stick together. Mating with human and animals is an ambomniation to the Most High. So they were cut off from their scource..Adonai. Obviously they were seen on Earth as gods. Think Zeus, Hera, Hermes. There's fact in that. They realized they were cut off and Enoch, who is the line of Seth and grandfather of Noah. The bloodline was pure, only human. No abomination. So the fallen begged Enoch to speak to Adonai for them. Enoch did. Adonai says, nope nope nope you are not forgiven. Your descandant will NOT be saved. Your children will die. And a coupla of em were thrown in prison. So in that, they were like well we're screwed so we gawn do what we gawn do. So they taught humanity even more abominiations, witchcraft. Alchemeny,Necromancy, astrology, reading and writing(written words have power). Which is why Adonai deems them forbidden in the bible. I'm saying all this to say,that yeah, male/male preactices and other things CAME from somewhere. This is NOT the normal evolution of culture. It has been tainted.when one reads Enoch, the entire picture makes sense. It really does..it explains the entire agenda from beginning to end and I suspect it makes Revelation make more sense. It could be that again. And as far as. Christianity imposing. Think about this bible verse and I hate to admit this a lot of people don't believe in Christianity due to this fulfillment of this bible verse: "there will be many who call me Lord, Lord, but will not enter the gates of heaven" Have you met Christians who call Adonai, Lord and say I'm this I'm that and they were purposefully and I mean PURPOSEFULLY sinful? Cold hearts, evil cutting words standing in judgement of others when it aint their JOB to? Yes, many will say" But but Adonai, I cast out demons, I I I healed dese people, I I I did this, I I I did that" but He will say I never knew you. Do you know why? Because they had No love, No obedience, no trust/faith. They weren't willing to HONOR that relationship with the Most High. This is something I STRIVE to be mindful of. Becacuse as the Word states, its just noise and cymbols clamoring If they have the language of angels(sweet words), prophetic words, they lay they hands on folks, cast out demons. But if that love relationship is NOT there, its just a bunch of talk. You see this evidenced in slavery AND the crusades. People calling Adonai Lord Lord and not meaning it in their hearts.

Forgive me if I seem ALL OVER THE PLACE But I am stating this to say: it is not "Christianity Imposed" that. Destroys cultures. Its using the name of Adonai, to supress and manipulate people the underdog to kow down, and BOW down to their wishes. True relationship with Yeshua, respects others, Love others, teach and encourage others. Don't get me wrong. Adonai can, will, and DOES judge. Would you really wanna serve an Adonai that gives people a pass go? But He is merciful. Methelusah lived 638 years before Adonai Flooded the world. He gave 638 YEARS for humanity to repent. Methelusah means MERCY, A HOLDING BACK OF JUDGEMENT. If that aint a merciful Elohim, I don't know what is. These are my thoughts. If they're wack to you, so be it lol. But I have loved Adonai and my relationship with Yeshua even more so after reading Enoch.
 
That was an interesting read. It definitely makes me curious about Enoch. And I see the point where you state "it is not "Christianity Imposed" that. Destroys cultures. Its using the name of Adonai, to supress and manipulate people the underdog to kow down, and BOW down to their wishes."

Can I safely assume that what you are saying is that the Euro-spawned Christianity is a gross bastardization of something that was once true and right.
 
In a huge sense YES due to their motives... some would say they were truly Pharisees. I don't know if i agree with that. I have learned RELIGION is the opiate and control of the masses. RELATIONSHIP is not. I'm not solely speaking of Euro-Christianity , even this has had a huge impact on the destruction of cultures. But a lot of times people were in it for..power, $$, lust greed. oh and they used Adonai's name to do it too.. BUt the Slaves they actually READ the bible. Adonai is so Genius. It' funny slaves READ the bible and they had the innate understanding to realize that true Christianity were what the eurpoeans made it out to be. It is not our job to enslave, judge< or condment. It is not our job to save as Nymphe stated. But it is o ur job to walk in love relationship wtih Adonai and others. To prove being worthy of a servant and live our life of love so that Adonai convicts. Our problem as Christians is that we try to convict but we wind up condemning.. why? Because we are NOT the judge. We are the Jugde's servant of Love and Mercy. It would behoove ME and others to keep that in mind. I am NOT a perfect christian. I love Yeshua, I want others to see that with my LIFE not just my words cause as WE ALL know folks can say ANYTHING. I am NOT perfect Christian, but I strive to grow and be and ABIDE in HIm. I hope this helps.
 
There is so much evil everywhere. Someone of these "imperialists" are at times too blind to see it within themselves. These will be people surprised to know that they never "knew" God on Judgment Day. Having the desire to conquer other peoples comes from a source of arrogance and we all know God hates pride.
 
luthiengirlie said:
My View is this. Enoch speaks about how two groups of angels rebelled against Adonai and fell One was lucifer (WE ALL KNOW THAT STORY) and the other were two angels. They were complaining to Adonai about"men are stupid they know nothing why did u create them, we need to teach them" so Adonai says..go ahead. They get to earth and see how pretty the animals and human women are. They make a pact among themselves and say well we'll mate with them and no matter what happens we'll stick together. Mating with human and animals is an ambomniation to the Most High. So they were cut off from their scource..Adonai. Obviously they were seen on Earth as gods. Think Zeus, Hera, Hermes. There's fact in that. They realized they were cut off and Enoch, who is the line of Seth and grandfather of Noah. The bloodline was pure, only human. No abomination. So the fallen begged Enoch to speak to Adonai for them. Enoch did. Adonai says, nope nope nope you are not forgiven. Your descandant will NOT be saved. Your children will die. And a coupla of em were thrown in prison. So in that, they were like well we're screwed so we gawn do what we gawn do. So they taught humanity even more abominiations, witchcraft. Alchemeny,Necromancy, astrology, reading and writing(written words have power). Which is why Adonai deems them forbidden in the bible. I'm saying all this to say,that yeah, male/male preactices and other things CAME from somewhere. This is NOT the normal evolution of culture. It has been tainted.when one reads Enoch, the entire picture makes sense. It really does..it explains the entire agenda from beginning to end and I suspect it makes Revelation make more sense. It could be that again. And as far as. Christianity imposing. Think about this bible verse and I hate to admit this a lot of people don't believe in Christianity due to this fulfillment of this bible verse: "there will be many who call me Lord, Lord, but will not enter the gates of heaven" Have you met Christians who call Adonai, Lord and say I'm this I'm that and they were purposefully and I mean PURPOSEFULLY sinful? Cold hearts, evil cutting words standing in judgement of others when it aint their JOB to? Yes, many will say" But but Adonai, I cast out demons, I I I healed dese people, I I I did this, I I I did that" but He will say I never knew you. Do you know why? Because they had No love, No obedience, no trust/faith. They weren't willing to HONOR that relationship with the Most High. This is something I STRIVE to be mindful of. Becacuse as the Word states, its just noise and cymbols clamoring If they have the language of angels(sweet words), prophetic words, they lay they hands on folks, cast out demons. But if that love relationship is NOT there, its just a bunch of talk. You see this evidenced in slavery AND the crusades. People calling Adonai Lord Lord and not meaning it in their hearts.

Forgive me if I seem ALL OVER THE PLACE But I am stating this to say: it is not "Christianity Imposed" that. Destroys cultures. Its using the name of Adonai, to supress and manipulate people the underdog to kow down, and BOW down to their wishes. True relationship with Yeshua, respects others, Love others, teach and encourage others. Don't get me wrong. Adonai can, will, and DOES judge. Would you really wanna serve an Adonai that gives people a pass go? But He is merciful. Methelusah lived 638 years before Adonai Flooded the world. He gave 638 YEARS for humanity to repent. Methelusah means MERCY, A HOLDING BACK OF JUDGEMENT. If that aint a merciful Elohim, I don't know what is. These are my thoughts. If they're wack to you, so be it lol. But I have loved Adonai and my relationship with Yeshua even more so after reading Enoch.
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Re: stuff in bold: it seems with one you do what the other is saying not to do, you judge by talking of those that sin while claiming some caveat with regards to the word of god. First, i'm so glad i'm one of those people that have fallen so many times its ridiculous, so that people like yourself can say " she's a hypocrite" , i know what God says to me, that a righteous "man" falls seven times, and that if your brother sins you should forgive him seventy times seven. i know its not the number of sinning its the illustration that we are all imperfect beings who if we chose love a perfect God.

yeah we know about the colonial use of the word of god, they used it because they knew it was essentially good and it had mass appea because of its goodness, its like tasting sugar for the first time, real truth is sweet. l it doesnt mean that christianity at its heart is bad. if i take a e type jag and run an old lady over with it, does it mean that the jag is bad or the driver was?


As for the "savages" becoming christians, good. I'm glad.... I think Jesus christ is the truth and people far less sophisticated than us in western societies, see the truth even if we with all our intelligence, readings of the book of Enoch/Enosh, book of the Dead do not. the children of disobedience have their minds darkened for a time so that the truth may be revealed in them that seek him.



I'm not sure why the book of Enoch was even brought up, but I still agree with the common consensus that its an historical tome, interesting nonetheless. What gets me about so many folk that read the book of Enoch ( not saying this is you) and the book of the dead and nothing else.. its completely taken out of context, its that kind of thing that Satan loves to use, take stuff and make it into something else. I have had nuwabians (aaaargh) come to me trying to explain stuff, and because they dont really understand it, they just confuse everyone around them.., then they start on the most high this and the most high that, i had to ask them what you mean " most high" because i knew it was something different, " do you mean high up in the sky high" and they replied "yes" . I further gleaned that they related to the "most high" as if he was an alien being sent from High.. and theeen I got a headache loool

People are zealous, and passionate about things they believe to be the truth and as we are not perfect we are bound to make mistakes, if they have been insensitive to the parts of their culture that can stay because it isnt seen as outright sin to the newly reformed and/or dangerous its really up to that ministry to practice tolerance and respect. I hope and pray they do.
 
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FORGIVE Me if I came across in seeming to Judge., That was NOT my intention at all so to speak It truly wasnt. I was saying that Adonai IS the most high judge and we have to be careful ALL OF US myself included(I'M CALLING MYSELF OUT HERE AS WELL) have to becare of not running around saying I'm better than her and she's this stinking uh tryna ACT LIKE BE A CHRISTIAN HEATHEN.

Again I apologize if i came across of acting like I'm a judgement.
I'm speaking of those whose minds are reprobate
not necessarily those who struggle
I fall down and I get up OFTEN
who am I TO SAY that I am better than anyone.
\
I never stated Christianity at its heart was bad. I said the motives behind those who opress using Christianity was bad.
please do not get my words twisted.

I'M EXCITED that what ha the world deems "savages" were saved

and I have issues all up int hat word concerning who the savages truly are. I believe in the beauty of spreading the gospel
Yeshua/Jesus is the Way the truth and the life and none can come to Adonai except by Him.
I declare that before the world and I pray I LIVE IT too more and mroe each day.

I brought up Enoch(the line of Seth dude) because it triggered me to see connections. It was a thought process most likely badly written out. But it made a lot of sense to me as to why male/male sex was such a huge thing in those societes of the ha "savages".

AGAIN if i came across as condenscending, Phariseeish. Please forgive me. it is the LAST thing I want to do/convey about myself. I can be pretty st raightfoward and it often comes across the wrong way.

I think I have issues with those who use religion to opress and ATTEMPT to negate the gospel and Yeshua's love for us that i come across harsher than intended.. forgive me for that too.


I don't take STOCK in Enoch as it is the end all/be all but I strongly believe that it makes a lot of pieces fit together. I am trying to learn what His truth is without worldy deception
because so much deception in the Church now made me go whoa. so in a sense I am learning things all over again

Enoch/Enosh is someting i stand firmly on... the book of Jasher, Jubiliees, Macabbeesm the books of Wisdom. i'm kind of ehh about. so please don't take me believing every extracanoncial book as reality. I've known about the book of Enoch for years. I'm discovering that even Yeshua/Jesus HIMSELF quoted this book. that holds a LOT of weight to me... Again I am still learning and again please forgive me if I came across as....harsh.
 
missusM said:
Re: stuff in bold: it seems with one you do what the other is saying not to do, you judge by talking of those that sin while claiming some caveat with regards to the word of god. First, i'm so glad i'm one of those people that have fallen so many times its ridiculous, so that people like yourself can say " she's a hypocrite" , i know what God says to me, that a righteous "man" falls seven times, and that if your brother sins you should forgive him seventy times seven. i know its not the number of sinning its the illustration that we are all imperfect beings who if we chose love a perfect God.

yeah we know about the colonial use of the word of god, they used it because they knew it was essentially good and it had mass appea because of its goodness, its like tasting sugar for the first time, real truth is sweet. l it doesnt mean that christianity at its heart is bad. if i take a e type jag and run an old lady over with it, does it mean that the jag is bad or the driver was?


As for the "savages" becoming christians, good. I'm glad.... I think Jesus christ is the truth and people far less sophisticated than us in western societies, see the truth even if we with all our intelligence, readings of the book of Enoch/Enosh, book of the Dead do not. the children of disobedience have their minds darkened for a time so that the truth may be revealed in them that seek him.



I'm not sure why the book of Enoch was even brought up, but I still agree with the common consensus that its an historical tome, interesting nonetheless. What gets me about so many folk that read the book of Enoch ( not saying this is you) and the book of the dead and nothing else.. its completely taken out of context, its that kind of thing that Satan loves to use, take stuff and make it into something else. I have had nuwabians (aaaargh) come to me trying to explain stuff, and because they dont really understand it, they just confuse everyone around them.., then they start on the most high this and the most high that, i had to ask them what you mean " most high" because i knew it was something different, " do you mean high up in the sky high" and they replied "yes" . I further gleaned that they related to the "most high" as if he was an alien being sent from High.. and theeen I got a headache loool

People are zealous, and passionate about things they believe to be the truth and as we are not perfect we are bound to make mistakes, if they have been insensitive to the parts of their culture that can stay because it isnt seen as outright sin to the newly reformed and/or dangerous its really up to that ministry to practice tolerance and respect. I hope and pray they do.
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HONESTLY i don't think you read my other post further down. I think you read my FIRST post and reacted.
 
Ladies, thank you for the education. I was not raised in the church so I guess I have not been indoctrinated in its ways and teachings. I have always questioned the people on this earth that preach 'the word'. We've seen time and time again how they conduct themselves and tome, it doesn't make sense. Thank you for the frank words, I'm learning alot here.
 
One thing Ive learned in my walk with Jesus, is that sometimes the driver IS bad, but not necessary the Jag. God has a wonderful way of fishing through the bad stuff and the good stuff surfaces. I learned this 1st hand when I gave my life to Jesus. My boyfriend at the time had gotten saved and came home telling me about this Jesus. I thought it was good for him, but I wasn't feeling it at the time. He invited me to church and I finally went when I got a day off. But the female pastor he had been going to had been saying very condemning things about me. I knew my life wasn't right but I had never been confronted about it either. I didn't grow up in a holy ghost filled church, but deep down I knew something was wrong with the way I was living. Anyway, I finally go to church with him and the pastor stops preaching and looks at me and says "I rebuke you satan, in the name of Jesus". I had never heard that phrase, but I clearly understood what she was saying. Part of me was hurt, confused and couldn't believe a "pastor" would say that to me. The other part was ready to beat her down. I was gonna show her satan . This woman never talked to me about salvation even though there were only 6 of us at the church. I waited and waited because something in me wanted what he had. It got worse, she did everything she could to turn him against me , trying to hook him up with her daughter, who already had 3 kids out of wedlock, but she was holy ghost filled. Did I mention she had 2 other daughters both with kids, none married, holy ghost filled. All supposed to be ministers. Granted we did live together, were fornicating, listened to ungodly music, drank when I wanted to and cursed when I wanted to. Did I mention her daughter went to freaknick against her mother's will. I had never been to freaknick and wasn't planning on going. I didn't understand why she thought I was SO horrible, even before she met me.

I said all this to say, one day I was very upset and confused because this pastor who knew the Bible front to back was attacking me. I didn't have the Biblical knowledge that she had to fight back, but I knew deep down that the things she was saying about me were twisted and not loving. They weren't coming from God. I had gone through the sinners prayer several times and felt nothing. I thought I was unsaveable. I prayed and asked God why, what was wrong with me? I"ll never forget He said. "stop looking at these people and their sins, focus on me and what Ive taught you. While you're focused on them and whether they're really saved or not, you dont' know for yourself. You need to believe and trust in me. I will help you get things right.You don't have to ask again for salvation, I gave it to you the 1st time you prayed to me. Trust in me". He said that He loved me and He also loved them and knew my pain and the pain that had experienced in their life.

I realized that these people could really be saved and it was not my problem or place to judge them or figure them out. I needed to get right with God. And it's a day to day walk with HIm. I eventually ask Him to help me forgive her and her daughters, which took some time, and was able to move on.

John 3:16-18. I chose to believe Him. everyday I wonder why He loves me and puts up with my mess, but then I smile, cry and thank Him. Ephesians 2:8-9. It's not because of anything I did, He did it all.

Sorry, I can be long winded, hope this helps somebody .
 
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Man, I read the article it was written 10 years ago but that's beside the point. Ok, back on topic. What makes a someone a savage? I have heard people say Detroit was filled with savages, do we need to send Christians there? Ok, sorry again, back to the topic:

I think that while Christians feel that they are doing a good thing going to remote island nations converting those people, saving them from the things they have worshipped and practiced probably thousands of years, they instead need to stay home and help the people in their own land.

We have people right here in civilization practicing savage behavior ie: pedophiles, murderers and drug addicts. Some of these island people need to say "why you comin here telling me this when you got Christians in your own country doing the same things or worse."

Get your own house right before you go telling other people what they should do. Many cultures have fallen after the introduction of Christianity and it makes sense....there are priests raping boys, preachers with downlow homosexual relationships and gay church piano players on almost every block.
 
tarheelgurl said:
Man, I read the article it was written 10 years ago but that's beside the point. Ok, back on topic. What makes a someone a savage? I have heard people say Detroit was filled with savages, do we need to send Christians there? Ok, sorry again, back to the topic:

I think that while Christians feel that they are doing a good thing going to remote island nations converting those people, saving them from the things they have worshipped and practiced probably thousands of years, they instead need to stay home and help the people in their own land.

We have people right here in civilization practicing savage behavior ie: pedophiles, murderers and drug addicts. Some of these island people need to say "why you comin here telling me this when you got Christians in your own country doing the same things or worse."

Get your own house right before you go telling other people what they should do. Many cultures have fallen after the introduction of Christianity and it makes sense....there are priests raping boys, preachers with downlow homosexual relationships and gay church piano players on almost every block.
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LOL!

Let me repeat what I posted earlier: no group has any monopoly on any aspect of human behavior. Do not let your opinion of religion blind you to the faults of others.

Look around! Look at history! Set aside your bias and see human nature for what it is. Also, you have no idea how true missionary work is handled, which requires people to become a part of the culture in order to survive. We are called to tell the truth, to spread it to the four corners of the earth. The Father Himself makes the changes, not us. Anything more than that is no different than the secularists and other non-Christian groups do to indigenous people at this present time.
 
I am glad to see you got that revelation from God for yourself.
Too many times people allow what other people are doing/saying to get in the way of them making that decision to answer God's call. A big, fat excuse is what I call it. People will be people until the end of time...

I went through that tunnel-vision thinking about "church folks," too when I wasn't saved. God kept dealing with my heart and no matter who was preaching, the sermon was always about ME. My heart would always beat hard and fast but I'd sit still in the pew, in a state of defiance. I'd get mad at the preachers. I'd get mad at the church folks, when really I was mad at myself.
I couldn't run way from God, no matter how hard I tried... until the day I finally surrendered.

Deep down inside, God was dealing with you, too, and I'm glad to see you CHOSE to ignore all the other nonsense and listen to HIS VOICE. In the end, that's all that counts when we each stand before the Almighty God to account for how we live the lives he gave us.

Great testimony....

uniquely made said:
One thing Ive learned in my walk with Jesus, is that sometimes the driver IS bad, but not necessary the Jag. God has a wonderful way of fishing through the bad stuff and the good stuff surfaces. I learned this 1st hand when I gave my life to Jesus. My boyfriend at the time had gotten saved and came home telling me about this Jesus. I thought it was good for him, but I wasn't feeling it at the time. He invited me to church and I finally went when I got a day off. But the female pastor he had been going to had been saying very condemning things about me. I knew my life wasn't right but I had never been confronted about it either. I didn't grow up in a holy ghost filled church, but deep down I knew something was wrong with the way I was living. Anyway, I finally go to church with him and the pastor stops preaching and looks at me and says "I rebuke you satan, in the name of Jesus". I had never heard that phrase, but I clearly understood what she was saying. Part of me was hurt, confused and couldn't believe a "pastor" would say that to me. The other part was ready to beat her down. I was gonna show her satan . This woman never talked to me about salvation even though there were only 6 of us at the church. I waited and waited because something in me wanted what he had. It got worse, she did everything she could to turn him against me , trying to hook him up with her daughter, who already had 3 kids out of wedlock, but she was holy ghost filled. Did I mention she had 2 other daughters both with kids, none married, holy ghost filled. All supposed to be ministers. Granted we did live together, were fornicating, listened to ungodly music, drank when I wanted to and cursed when I wanted to. Did I mention her daughter went to freaknick against her mother's will. I had never been to freaknick and wasn't planning on going. I didn't understand why she thought I was SO horrible, even before she met me.

I said all this to say, one day I was very upset and confused because this pastor who knew the Bible front to back was attacking me. I didn't have the Biblical knowledge that she had to fight back, but I knew deep down that the things she was saying about me were twisted and not loving. They weren't coming from God. I had gone through the sinners prayer several times and felt nothing. I thought I was unsaveable. I prayed and asked God why, what was wrong with me? I"ll never forget He said. "stop looking at these people and their sins, focus on me and what Ive taught you. While you're focused on them and whether they're really saved or not, you dont' know for yourself. You need to believe and trust in me. I will help you get things right.You don't have to ask again for salvation, I gave it to you the 1st time you prayed to me. Trust in me". He said that He loved me and He also loved them and knew my pain and the pain that had experienced in their life.

I realized that these people could really be saved and it was not my problem or place to judge them or figure them out. I needed to get right with God. And it's a day to day walk with HIm. I eventually ask Him to help me forgive her and her daughters, which took some time, and was able to move on.

John 3:16-18. I chose to believe Him. everyday I wonder why He loves me and puts up with my mess, but then I smile, cry and thank Him. Ephesians 2:8-9. It's not because of anything I did, He did it all.

Sorry, I can be long winded, hope this helps somebody .
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Nymphe said:
LOL!

Let me repeat what I posted earlier: no group has any monopoly on any aspect of human behavior. Do not let your opinion of religion blind you to the faults of others.

Look around! Look at history! Set aside your bias and see human nature for what it is. Also, you have no idea how true missionary work is handled, which requires people to become a part of the culture in order to survive. We are called to tell the truth, to spread it to the four corners of the earth. The Father Himself makes the changes, not us. Anything more than that is no different than the secularists and other non-Christian groups do to indigenous people at this present time.
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I understand missionary work and I understand what they go through to blend with a particular group. I didn't say anyone had a monopoly on certain behaviors. All I was saying is that these missionaries go to these lands telling those people their ways are wrong and how they will save them from themselves, but back at home there are so many Christians needing to be saved from themselves as well. Tis all....

Is like "...be like us...be like us..." but who's to say being like you is what the so called "savages" need?
 
tarheelgurl said:
I understand missionary work and I understand what they go through to blend with a particular group. I didn't say anyone had a monopoly on certain behaviors. All I was saying is that these missionaries go to these lands telling those people their ways are wrong and how they will save them from themselves, but back at home there are so many Christians needing to be saved from themselves as well. Tis all....

Is like "...be like us...be like us..." but who's to say being like you is what the so called "savages" need?
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Correction: it is "be like Christ...be like Christ." God will deal with His children here in time and He has (why do you think these false teachers get exposed?). As for the rest, that is being done; ever heard of intercity missions? The problem is man does not trust the Power of God and tries force His Will, rendering His Power of ineffective.

Man sucks at rules man, no matter what form it comes in. I strongly suggest you find that group who is perfect and tell us about it.
 
tarheelgurl said:
Man, I read the article it was written 10 years ago but that's beside the point. Ok, back on topic. What makes a someone a savage? I have heard people say Detroit was filled with savages, do we need to send Christians there? Ok, sorry again, back to the topic:

I think that while Christians feel that they are doing a good thing going to remote island nations converting those people, saving them from the things they have worshipped and practiced probably thousands of years, they instead need to stay home and help the people in their own land.

We have people right here in civilization practicing savage behavior ie: pedophiles, murderers and drug addicts. Some of these island people need to say "why you comin here telling me this when you got Christians in your own country doing the same things or worse."

Get your own house right before you go telling other people what they should do. Many cultures have fallen after the introduction of Christianity and it makes sense....there are priests raping boys, preachers with downlow homosexual relationships and gay church piano players on almost every block.
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You have a very interesting opinion... Something like, "You're not in a position to spread the word, you need to clean up your own house first."

I can get with that, too. I'm coming from the angle that these so-called 'savages' have adopted a way of life that already works for them, why do they need Christianity? To many, Christianity is a beautiful thing, but it starts off a chain reaction that results in the ending of an established and thriving culture.
 
Nymphe said:
Correction: it is "be like Christ...be like Christ." God will deal with His children here in time and He has (why do you think these false teachers get exposed?). As for the rest, that is being done; ever heard of intercity missions? The problem is man does not trust the Power of God and tries force His Will, rendering His Power of ineffective.

Man sucks at rules man, no matter what form it comes in. I strongly suggest you find that group who is perfect and tell us about it.
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I'm not looking for perfect group...but when and if I do, I will let you know!:grin:
I guess you just made my point with that statement though, if Christianity isn't perfect, then how do you know whatever it is the wild people are doing isn't any better?

I'm not going to say any more about it though. My point was basically, indigenous people may or may not benefit from being inroduced to Christianity and basically while they are saying "...Be like Christ..." there are many Christians that aren't doing that. Basically, before you fix someone else's pipes, figure out a way to stop your own from leaking. That's all I was trying to say.
 
displacedcreole said:
You have a very interesting opinion... Something like, "You're not in a position to spread the word, you need to clean up your own house first."

I can get with that, too. I'm coming from the angle that these so-called 'savages' have adopted a way of life that already works for them, why do they need Christianity? To many, Christianity is a beautiful thing, but it starts off a chain reaction that results in the ending of an established and thriving culture.
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Thank you....I was about to think I wasn't clear enough on what I was trying to say but you get it....thanks!:grin:
 
tarheelgurl said:
I'm not looking for perfect group...but when and if I do, I will let you know!:grin:
I guess you just made my point with that statement though, if Christianity isn't perfect, then how do you know whatever it is the wild people are doing isn't any better?

I'm not going to say any more about it though. My point was basically, indigenous people may or may not benefit from being inroduced to Christianity and basically while they are saying "...Be like Christ..." there are many Christians that aren't doing that. Basically, before you fix someone else's pipes, figure out a way to stop your own from leaking. That's all I was trying to say.
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Cultures come and go, with or without human or natural intervention and it will never stop. History proves that over and over again, even before Jesus came along. Dig deeper into the past; you will be surprised at what you find.

This is about a relationship, not religion. Religion is no different than politics or any man-made construct. People can accept or reject His Gift of eternal life, but He alone makes the connection within a person's heart.
 
The title..."savages"....some of us take offense to that word...but I know in which context it is meant...and you're right. That viewpoint. However, who's to determine who is saved who isn't? We're still here in the flesh and since we are not in heaven...well, it's up to God to determine in the end. Every man has good and bad inside, two fighting wolves. If one lives according to the truth that he knows and upholds it, couldn't he be "saved" in the end? This is my point. People pass that word "salvation" around like a club title. Truth is, none of know who will be saved and who will not be. That's why we are to :

Hebrews 3:14

"We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."

IMHO, the only thing that christian missionaries did (and still do) was spread hatred, kill self-esteem and create societies that would be forever held to paying taxes by their sweat equity. Somehow, the "natives" found the true gospel despite the "christians" who vomited their version out. Some things have changed, such as apologies to indigenous populations worldwide. The damage has been done and now we are faced with forgiveness.

If feelings were irrelevant, then God wouldn't have given scripture dealing with them in the first place. Humans are not steel, they are flesh. If Jesus wept, it was due to this feelings. The truth of scripture is universal...true enough. What is not always truth is our interpretation of it, esp. who we think is saved and who we think is not.
 
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We have people right here in civilization practicing savage behavior ie: pedophiles, murderers and drug addicts. Some of these island people need to say "why you comin here telling me this when you got Christians in your own country doing the same things or worse."

Get your own house right before you go telling other people what they should do. Many cultures have fallen after the introduction of Christianity and it makes sense....there are priests raping boys, preachers with downlow homosexual relationships and gay church piano players on almost every block.

Tarheelgurl? Do you think these behaviors are OK? If so why? If not , why not?

And to the original poster, in what ways do you consider this culture thriving? I don't see any difference in their behavior and the behavior of those listed as pedophiles and rapist. I read the article that this discussion originated from and I could barely get through it, I was totally disgusted. What is your source of what's right and wrong? My source is the Word of God. Call me judgmental if you like. Is it judgmental to call a rape what it is. Molestors are molestors. I don't care where or how they were raised. Some things are just plain SICK. Anyway, my stomach is still turning.

And most missionaries don't go to distant lands to condemn these people and tell them how awful they are. Most of them have good hearts and a lot of compassion to try to reach these people in all lands. More compassion than I probably have. cause if I went I would honestly probably lose it on them. So I commend them in their imperfection to give up their comfort to reach other people. And yes, missionaries do the same here in our country. The difference is that we have more opportunity to hear the Word of God. Some of these countries don't , so God sends others to reach them.

I still would like to know why some seem to despise Christians for not having it all together but are defensive of this way of life. would you say just leave a pediphile alone , it's none of your business. They seem to be thriving also.

And to the question about the assurance of salvation. You're right, no one can say who will or will not be saved. But God does say that you can know for yourself. Here are some scriptrues I read when I had that same question.

John1:12, I John 5:13, John 5:24, and John 6:47. Im not good at copying and pasting without losing my post. So you can read them for yourself.
 
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