Christian Unity, Cultural Differences and Freedom to Integrate

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Ms.Honey said:
You are not the devil but you do have a victim mentality. You focus on the negative in your posts and threads never the goodness of God. Never how He has blessed the Native Americans. Do you believe that God has blessed the Native Americans in America or do you think that they are eternal victims of the white man without the hope of the help of Jesus?

The gospel message IS a simple one. Jesus is Lord and He is God. If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. Romans10:9 It's the message of hope that we preach not superstitions like not being able to spell out the word God but instead G-d so we don't blaspheme His name. We are not bound but free.

We have been made free of the ordinances and the purity laws that were needful before Jesus came and brought truth into the earth. We have been freed from the bondage of the OT and are free to walk in the newness of life. We are no longer bound. This is not a new concept that you are trying to bring here. Paul vehemently opposed the thought that the gentiles no longer gentiles but we are now the church of God be made to practice Judaism. Again read the books of Acts, Romans and Hebrews.
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Okay, what about the people here exposing the name-it/claim-it deception of the church? ARe they being negative? Washer, is he negative? All of that was spoken of here. I forget, this is largely a Black list and most of you, I suspect, do not worship in a multi-cultural environment. I'm simply bringing up the issues that affect my community and asking opinions of a larger community to see if there is anyone who has dealt with or knows of these issues. I now understand that most of you wish to remain segregated.

But if someone were to ask these questions concerning these to say, a Hindu, how would that person give an appropriate response, not being a christian? Where else to ask of them? WITHIN the christian forum. And I do know that all of the posts were not read and not comprehended...perhaps due to discomfort with the issues. From that... miscontrued meanings. That distresses me for a variety of reasons. Where else to ask of these?

Did you even read Twiss? He's what they would call "annointed." But you are not interested. That's okay. Well, that's is. I can truthfully say that there have been a few deep enough to comprehend where I am coming from with this line of questioning and they have not been uncomfortable with it because they understand. I couldn't expect it to be everyone. I learned a lot here, though. Some, I will take with me down the road. :yep:
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
I'd like to say something else, there are diff. kinds of christian in this forum. There are messianics, catholics, orthodox, pentecostals, COGIC, you name it, it's on here. But the way that anything that is not Black protestant-represented is shot down is an injustice to the many people who would LIKE to post their particular christian views here. Just know that not everyone relies upon the latest popular t.v. evangelists for their knowledge of the scriptures. Some of the folks here live that faith just as the ancients did, day by day, with the exact same liturgies of the past. Not everyone is the same but to act as though one side is better than another is a disservice to your faith. Truly, nothing I've said here is new or unknown to apologetics. Shrugs.
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We are well aware of the dynamics of the Christian forum thank you. We are not all AA here either. Christians are free to post here and they know that. It's just that when Tobias and Sanballat try to come and distract us from repairing the breach and restoring each other that issues come to play and that has been happening a LOT in these past few weeks.
 
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GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
Sigh, in other words, I'm asking a QUESTION about how some people view the gospel message and how it's been spread in the world. And yes, the church is implicated in the misuse of the gospel message. No, it doesn't mean every single person. But the church IS made up of different cultures. Can't expect everyone to see things exactly the same way...except for the basic tenets of the faith (I hope you read this twice...note, I said "basic tenets of the faith" so please don't misconstrue).

I don't understand why you keep alluding to me as a person of deception. How would I deceive you? What, am I a witch conjuring up something or other? There's really not a demon around every single corner MsHoney unless you are actively looking for it. Try to see the positives.

And no, I don't have any other gospel to bring. My questions have been on point. I want to know if people have ever thought about those aspects of the faith. If you are to spread the gospel and you encounter people who see these issues, how effective are you going to be if you don't address them as they are?

Just stop it Ms.Honey, please. Honestly, you come off as incredibly...sigh, I don't know...just don't know. I don't hate you. I know you hate me, though. It's quite evident. And accusatory...devil, deception...lolol! Note, I'm largely trying to avoid any encounter with you if possible.
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Again, the victim mentality. I don't hate you but I believe it's easier for you to belive that to continue to be so negative in your posts and threads. You want to think everyone hates or dislikes you, the members of your church dislike you, I hate you, the white man is out to get you, first the white church now the black church is trying to suppress you etc. etc.

Stop focusing on the negative aspects, don't deny but stop FOCUSING on the negative and you will be able to see the many positive things the church has to offer.
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
Okay, what about the people here exposing the name-it/claim-it deception of the church? ARe they being negative? Washer, is he negative? All of that was spoken of here. I forget, this is largely a Black list and most of you, I suspect, do not worship in a multi-cultural environment. I'm simply bringing up the issues that affect my community and asking opinions of a larger community to see if there is anyone who has dealt with or knows of these issues. I now understand that most of you wish to remain segregated.

But if someone were to ask these questions concerning these to say, a Hindu, how would that person give an appropriate response, not being a christian? Where else to ask of them? WITHIN the christian forum. And I do know that all of the posts were not read and not comprehended...perhaps due to discomfort with the issues. From that... miscontrued meanings. That distresses me for a variety of reasons. Where else to ask of these?

Did you even read Twiss? He's what they would call "annointed." But you are not interested. That's okay. Well, that's is. I can truthfully say that there have been a few deep enough to comprehend where I am coming from with this line of questioning and they have not been uncomfortable with it because they understand. I couldn't expect it to be everyone. I learned a lot here, though. Some, I will take with me down the road. :yep:
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to the bolded: true worship isn't dependent upon the surroundings, whether cultural, or racial because true worship seeks God and not inclusion within a group of people
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
Okay, what about the people here exposing the name-it/claim-it deception of the church? ARe they being negative? Washer, is he negative? All of that was spoken of here. I forget, this is largely a Black list and most of you, I suspect, do not worship in a multi-cultural environment. I'm simply bringing up the issues that affect my community and asking opinions of a larger community to see if there is anyone who has dealt with or knows of these issues. I now understand that most of you wish to remain segregated.

But if someone were to ask these questions concerning these to say, a Hindu, how would that person give an appropriate response, not being a christian? Where else to ask of them? WITHIN the christian forum. And I do know that all of the posts were not read and not comprehended...perhaps due to discomfort with the issues. From that... miscontrued meanings. That distresses me for a variety of reasons. Where else to ask of these?

Did you even read Twiss? He's what they would call "annointed." But you are not interested. That's okay. Well, that's is. I can truthfully say that there have been a few deep enough to comprehend where I am coming from with this line of questioning and they have not been uncomfortable with it because they understand. I couldn't expect it to be everyone. I learned a lot here, though. Some, I will take with me down the road. :yep:
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Can you REALLY not see the difference between a person being uncomfortable about some new stuff happening at work and you constantly posting about what the the church (we) have done to the NA's in the past. You're not asking questions your trying to call us to the carpet over something WE (the sisters on this forum) had nothing to do with. Yes we're aware of the atrocities but can you ONCE say SOMETHING positive about Jesus?
 
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
 
Remember the words I spoke to you: 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.
 
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1Peter 1:21 Who by Him(Jesus) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
 
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Amen!!!!!!
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
That's actually not the point here. It's about a christian model of living based upon individual/different cultural expressions of that faith that differ from the white/Euro model superimposed. People cannot see the whole picture of the message because their viewpoints are colored by their own types of ethnocentric glasses. There are many things to be learned from various cultures in the world and as christianity was spread through European dominance, the true message has been blurred..or should I say that the fullness of that message is being hindered. One example of this would be care of the earth as a christian mandate. Understanding the Native American respect for Mother Earth and that of Judaism would lend a greater comprehension of the bible in that matter as we are all scrambling now to undo what harm was inflicted on our dying planet by a European mindset of divide and conquer. Read what Twiss had to say in those quotes on the first post...I think he was brilliant.

It's not about getting white people to accept a certain model. At the same time, we are all here together in this world and the community needs to embrace an understanding of different expressions of the faith for deeper comprehension leading to appropriate action. And actually, this is why so many christians are now learning about Judaism, to learn the context of the origins of the faith to gain deeper understanding into what their faith/religion is in the first place. It's not really about pain, it's about truth and acceptance and validity of all cultures as creations by One G-d...equal acceptance and not the status quo acceptance of a white model only. It's about striving for that unity and truth.

I'm not sure if people understand that the European model of christianity held non-white people as soulless beings and it took centuries for wrongs sanctioned by the church to be corrected. Slavery was definitely one of these issues as were the crusades.
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I'm so lost

and couldnt understand why people were so rejecting of what you were saying

but now I see there is an issue and hang up of 'white Christianity' , what is that anyway? I guess it has to to do with your being of indian ancestory and you feel they imposed christianity on your people , well heck it was my people too, There is no such thing as white Christianity, This is a stumbling block for you it seems, I dont know what else to say. Just seek God dont get hung up on such things

sweetie, you cant make railing accusations about whats in anyone's heart if you have hatred in yours over a skin color, start there. thats the plank in your eye while you see the speck in another

I cant get past that point, of whites did this or that, as a whole race and a whole people and it applying today , that will very well be something in your heart that will keep you from God, I pray he heals your heart from the pain and anger and whatever else is the stumbling block for you between where you are and Christianity

and I still LOVE YOU!
 
GOD IS NOT WHITE OR RED OR BLACK

that is all

so who cares about all this white imposed stuff, I dont get it girl

sorry

God loves you and white people

LOL

Dang I'm just at a loss as to what to say-I didnt know that was what you were really saying

it kinda hurts actually

your view is as limited as your accusing others of having, even more so, nobody is on here talking about skin color and race and what not

He is the God that rules and reigns over all, I dont care what you mix in there, HE IS STILL THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD

and he aint worried about all this-most of it went over my head now anyway
 
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GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
You have an incredibly simplistic approach to the gospels. It's a point not well-taken with you. Perhaps consult a theologian. I'm sure your minister, if degreed and ordained, did in fact study the judaic origins of the New Testament or the brit hadasha. Don't worry, nobody is trying to proselytize you.

Oh, by the way, I'm not the Devil neither am I his servant. Thank you very much.
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whoa and wow

this just needs to stop

its not producing any fruit at all

not at all:nono:
 
alabama said:
^^^ I was wondering if you actually read the whole thing first Isis :lol:
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I dont know its like she says alot of truth and I felt she was offended, but I missed that whole white people thing, I guess until then it was under the radar for me, I didnt catch it, I understand her point, but its pointless all at the same time

I will say this to you directly HANNA you are making your own accusations of other's hearts but you cant when you have this issue in yours, you say that these others will keep many from LOVE and TRUTH, I dont see where throwing in this 'white thing' is leading anyone to LOVE OR TRUTH, it is in fact a hate message when its all said and done, I mean for all the good you say, once you say something against a whole race with something other than LOVE in your heart, your then preaching to a rock because your heart is as hard as that, or at least thats how it can and will be percieved

so I ask you, where is the LOVE in all this? what are you getting at exactly , cause I can hear you on some, but I'm lost on this white people thing
 
ok this is a spirit of confusion

and I dont say that to accuse, I say it because it is in fact bringing confusion, and many are feeling it

I understand preaching LOVE but not preaching LOVE with some HATE in with it

for the intolerance your accusing others of having, you have your own

I apologize for getting confused in this confusion

I just dont want to partake anymore

its not pretty at all :nono:
 
@Hanna

Can I ask you to please consider taking each person that is a Christian on an individual basis , not grouping them as a whole, by how some might have hurt you, can I also ask that you consider not seeing one whole race accountable for the sins of some, Can I also ask you seriously consider is there true unity in your message, when it so negative against this so called white Christianity, Can I ask you to consider to check your heart on where you are being offended and heal and check your heart on where you might be offending, can I ask you most of all to consider what you might be hurting over or slighted over, that you might be indeed now dishing out the same wounds, most of all can I ask you to consider that I am NO KNOW IT ALL, that my heart is sincerely reaching out to you in love , trying to figure out what is going on, and mostly can I ask that you pray for God's answer in this all.

that is all

love you!
 
Irresistible said:
@Hanna

Can I ask you to please consider taking each person that is a Christian on an individual basis , not grouping them as a whole, by how some might have hurt you, can I also ask that you consider not seeing one whole race accountable for the sins of some, Can I also ask you seriously consider is there true unity in your message, when it so negative against this so called white Christianity, Can I ask you to consider to check your heart on where you are being offended and heal and check your heart on where you might be offending, can I ask you most of all to consider what you might be hurting over or slighted over, that you might be indeed now dishing out the same wounds, most of all can I ask you to consider that I am NO KNOW IT ALL, that my heart is sincerely reaching out to you in love , trying to figure out what is going on, and mostly can I ask that you pray for God's answer in this all.

that is all

love you!
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All I can say is that before posting a response to anything, please read the supporting documentation. It was clear as water for those that actually read it. Perhaps people are not that privy to certain history...I dunno really, I thought it was common knowledge.

My question was very specific and certainly not an invite to accuse me of racism and some supposed self-perceived "superiority" of mix. It's better to read it and pass it rather than post from another's reponse who didn't bother to read it...and everything is absolutely convoluted and miscontrued. Perhaps it would have been better to ask for clarification...except, it was very evident in the materials. Talk about accusations. I thought you knew me better than that.
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
All I can say is that before posting a response to anything, please read the supporting documentation. It was clear as water for those that actually read it. Perhaps people are not that privy to certain history...I dunno really, I thought it was common knowledge.

My question was very specific and certainly not an invite to accuse me of racism and some supposed self-perceived "superiority" of mix. It's better to read it and pass it rather than post from another's reponse who didn't bother to read it...and everything is absolutely convoluted and miscontrued. Perhaps it would have been better to ask for clarification...except, it was very evident in the materials. Talk about accusations. I thought you knew me better than that.
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well truly I was looking at your wording, if I mistook your wording , then forgive me

this is actually really hurting me, I pray it stops, I DO LOVE YOU

what is going on?

I'm like seriously losing the whole point now. I apologize to you , I dont intend to accuse, I just am at a loss with what I saw you say

I'm sorry if I DONT understand but I do love you
 
Irresistible said:
ok I am so lost girl, I just really am now

I just love you and this is starting to just hurt


I just will back down, I am seriously lost now


you were bringing up something about white Christianity right? I mean I SAW it in your post!
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An emphatic "NO." I was asking about opinions about Twiss' organization. When christianity was brought here, it was done under the guise of divide and conquer and murder. The message still got here because there are people who saw the purity of the message. For others to comprehend the message...they will need to see beyond those who were using it with ulterior motive. I mean, I'd have to write a dissertation on the history of this all...and I ain't gonna do that. Just think "crusaders" or something along that line. It's hard to see the love of christ when people are brandishing weapons of steel at your neck and threatening extermination. This is the impasse that Twiss often refers to. It's historical and it's a barrier to the gospel message because that's what people SEE. They don't see the love of christ, they see the people who misuse the message for their political and economic gain...as was done in the past. Note. he said that their message was to "cut your hair, stop dancing, use European instruments so they can be good christians." And this idea was alive and well right into the 1980's. That was fact, hon, sorry.

Just imagine, Aboriginals of Australia never being able to pick up a didgeridoo and singing British hymns only because no one thinks their culture can support a valid belief and worship of Christ. This is the message :yep:. I was asking for examples in the AA church...as in, where's the African expressions? Again, Twiss is saying essentially that there are communities that NEED to worship, in their cultural expression, the gospel, the Christ and not through the European model or else they feel disrespected. I don't know if people truly and fully comprehend this...I'll just let it go. Triple, quadruple sigh.... I'm only explaining because you feel offended and that was never my intent.

As far as "white christianity" which is not something I was saying, well, there is a European type of worship and there is an African one. Anybody besides me ever attend Ethiopian Orthodox church or Egyptian Coptic Orthodox services? The model is definitely African from a Jewish model and is the closest to the original ancient faith on earth. They aren't changing their style either...well, there are those who are trying to get them to do it but they are steadfast to their traditions. Tis all...let it go..
 
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GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
All I can say is that before posting a response to anything, please read the supporting documentation. It was clear as water for those that actually read it. Perhaps people are not that privy to certain history...I dunno really, I thought it was common knowledge.

My question was very specific and certainly not an invite to accuse me of racism and some supposed self-perceived "superiority" of mix. It's better to read it and pass it rather than post from another's reponse who didn't bother to read it...and everything is absolutely convoluted and miscontrued. Perhaps it would have been better to ask for clarification...except, it was very evident in the materials. Talk about accusations. I thought you knew me better than that.
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We did read and you made yourself very clear in your posts. They are very negative whether you're aware of it or not. You make the church out to be the enemy of the NA INSTEAD of pointing out that SOME misused the gospel and abused the NA. We are aware of that practice, we've suffered under it as AA BUT one thing we didn't do? We didn't blame Jesus and the church. We blamed the ones who did it not the whole church.
 
I am seriously confused

Hanna what your saying does come across as anti christian or anti white , I dont know I'm lost in the msg now and I apologize for anything I misunderstood

this hurts

I just want it to stop

God make it stop!
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
An emphatic "NO." I was asking about opinions about Twiss' organization. When christianity was brought here, it was done under the guise of divide and conquer and murder. The message still got here because there are people who saw the purity of the message. For others to comprehend the message...they will need to see beyond those who were using it with ulterior motive. I mean, I'd have to write a dissertation on the history of this all...and I ain't gonna do that. Just think "crusaders" or something along that line. It's hard to see the love of christ when people are brandishing weapons of steel at your neck and threatening extermination. This is the impasse that Twiss often refers to. It's historical and it's a barrier to the gospel message because that's what people SEE. They don't see the love of christ, they see the people who misuse the message for their political and economic gain...as was done in the past. Note. he said that their message was to "cut your hair, stop dancing, use European instruments so they can be good christians." That was fact, hon, sorry. Just imagine, Aboriginals of Australia never being able to pick up a didgeridoo and singing British hymns only because no one thinks their culture can support a valid belief and worship of Christ. This is the message :yep:. I was asking for examples in the AA church...as in, where's the African expressions? Again, Twiss is saying essentially that there are communities that NEED to worship, in their cultural expression, the gospel, the Christ and not through the European model or else they feel disrespected. I don't know if people truly and fully comprehend this...I'll just let it go. Triple, quadruple sigh.... I'm only explaining because you feel offended and that was never my intent.
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I mean I know all your saying happened is true and horrific. but whats the answer? I do understand RELIGION is not of God, but relationship is, I mean is that the point your making? Because if so I TRULY agree, I am sorry if your msg was lost on me, I am sorry if I saw something that wasnt there, I am just lost with this

I do know your heart, thats why I am hurting that things are going like this and coming across like this and being taken like this

I just want it to stop
 
Irresistible said:
I mean I know all your saying happened is true and horrific. but whats the answer?
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That's why I asked the questions and opened it up to dialogue. BTW, to the other poster, I'm not accusing every believer that ever was. If we can all ask this country to stop it's assault on Iraq when most of us have done no harm, then the body of Christ can certainly come to the rescue and correct collective wrongs for a certain community within it. Questioning does not accusation make.
 
well I am determined to end this post with an I love you

and I do truly and still will past what I am not understanding, I will not sit in judgment of what I am not understanding with your posts, I apologize and please just know that from the bottom of my heart , there is still nothing but love, we might not be able to talk about this in full and I get all of what your saying , or understand, but I STILL love you and we can talk about hair girl :lol:

I jest , but seriously I will not let this put a rift between us or in my heart

again I love you

all my love girl!
 
GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I said:
That's why I asked the questions and opened it up to dialogue. BTW, to the other poster, I'm not accusing every believer that ever was. If we can all ask this country to stop it's assault on Iraq when most of us have done no harm, then the body of Christ can certainly come to the rescue and correct collective wrongs for a certain community within it. Questioning does not accusation make.
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It's not the question but the approach that many find fault with. You come at us like Christians are the filth of the earth because some were racist and then say, "So let me ask y'all this?":ohwell: How do you expect us to receive that? We ARE the church. You're talking about us and our people.

It's like you don't want us to be able to relate. Like your hurt is worse than our hurts, like the pain of NA's is far more severe than the Africans who were taken from their lands and suffered slavery here for over 400 years and then segregation. You post as if we didn't suffer at their hands as AA and other people of color also.

They have apologized. We've forgiven them. We can't hold them accountable for what their ancestors did for the rest of their lives.They are are brothers and some are ashamed for what their people did. Forgive them. That's what Jesus instructs us to do. Vengance is His not ours.
 
Ms.Honey said:
It's not the question but the approach that many find fault with. You come at us like Christians are the filth of the earth because some were racist and then say, "So let me ask y'all this?":ohwell: How do you expect us to receive that? We ARE the church. You're talking about us and our people.

It's like you don't want us to be able to relate. Like your hurt is worse than our hurts, like the pain of NA's is far more severe than the Africans who were taken from their lands and suffered slavery here for over 400 years and then segregation. You post as if we didn't suffer at their hands as AA and other people of color also.

They have apologized. We've forgiven them. We can't hold them accountable for what their ancestors did for the rest of their lives.They are are brothers and some are ashamed for what their people did. Forgive them. That's what Jesus instructs us to do. Vengance is His not ours.
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@ Hanna , I pray you find forgiveness in your heart for the horrific acts done to NA's, and it was indeed horrific! I pray you find peace and healing over it all, somehow. There is nothing 'we' can do about what others did, but God is still on the throne, everyone will have their day of accountability, for their own sins, not the sins of others as a whole, sorry for the pain, and yes it happened to AA's too and its horrific, we need healing though, we cant live in that now, God is here now with us today and able to make ways for us and heal us and deliver us, and he is faithful and just, leave the blood on others hands to him, and the wounds to souls to him. He will be God all by himself! you just let go and heal girl :kiss:

you have every right to your process and path to healing to truth to forgivness to love!
 
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