Christian prospective on stem cell research
- Thread starter Renewed1
- Start date
erplexed
My post was more of an apology and clarification to you, not a disclaimer.
And I might be making an assumption, but I see that you have not accepted it since you've now gone on to label my statement in my initial post as being arrogant (which I feel is patronizing) even if I tried to explain where I'm coming from.
Please let's move on and agree to disagree.
Separate from the core of the thread topic on stem cell research, I'm not disagreeing with you. I neither used nor implied the word "arrogant" is not in any post pertaining to you. I now acknowledge your apology and apologize for calling it a disclaimer. I do not apologize for pointing out the condescension in the statement that a lot of Christians don't research topics in forming opinions. How can a genuine dialogue take place if that assumption is in the atmosphere....
I am willing to move forward now that full disclosure has occured here.
Thanks Divya. I'm sorry that I misunderstood.
And you are absolutely right about neither party reflecting Christian principles. Hence God's admonishment to us, "Follow God, not man."
divya
Well-Known Member
Thanks Divya. I'm sorry that I misunderstood.
And you are absolutely right about neither party reflecting Christian principles. Hence God's admonishment to us, "Follow God, not man."
No problem. I should have been more specific in my post too, so my apologies.
And I agree...we must follow God on these issues.
We cannot put faith in man.
@ the bolded....
I don't think Nefertitti meant any deliberate harm by the "Christian Ignorance Statement", but it is something that should not be taken lightly when applied; especially if one is a Christian applying it. Christians are far more informed and educated than the devil can handle.
That statement is used way too often and it's losing it's power.
Christians are well aware of what's going on, the world just doesn't want us to take a stand against what affects us. It doesn't take rocket science to know what God deems right and wrong. As Christians we are to follow Him, not the world's methods which always lead to death.
Nefertiti0906
Well-Known Member
@ the bolded....
I don't think Nefertitti meant any deliberate harm by the "Christian Ignorance Statement", but it is something that should not be taken lightly when applied; especially if one is a Christian applying it. Christians are far more informed and educated than the devil can handle.
That statement is used way too often and it's losing it's power.
Christians are well aware of what's going on, the world just doesn't want us to take a stand against what affects us. It doesn't take rocket science to know what God deems right and wrong. As Christians we are to follow Him, not the world's methods which always lead to death.
erplexed.
Renewed1
Well-Known Member
^^^Well said Shimmie.
But the topic was the CHRISTIAN perspective on the matter. What does the BIBLE say about this?
Does this bill goes against God's principle about preserving life?
God created the female egg and the male sperm, to create HIS people. Does this research destroy what God has intended to use to procreate the earth?
Is this another form of murder, just legalized?
But the topic was the CHRISTIAN perspective on the matter. What does the BIBLE say about this?
Does this bill goes against God's principle about preserving life?
God created the female egg and the male sperm, to create HIS people. Does this research destroy what God has intended to use to procreate the earth?
Is this another form of murder, just legalized?
Nefertiti0906
Well-Known Member
I consider myself Christian and that is a perspective that some Christians have.
Where in the bible is it stated explicitly that God has a principle about preserving life? If so, why were some battles and deaths justified by God?
I believe the issue of life and death is more complicated than it is. God is a complex being and with our human minds we are limited in understanding the ways and the intent of God.
divya
Well-Known Member
This is why I am leaning towards supporting this. If in fact, we are discussing the preservation of life then the issue should be with the In Vitro fertilization process. My understanding is that the embryos are coming from the extra embryos, rather than being created. So those extra embryos would are ultimately going to be destroyed anyway. Why not use them for research purposes?
divya
Well-Known Member
Please continue to post. I understand your point and agree. Some of us as Christians are quick to dismiss something without really researching it and then looking to the Bible and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance. It's not just on this matter but on others too. We are certainly not infallible and really must call on God for direction in everything.
divya
Well-Known Member
I've pulled one of my posts from the thread in the Political forum:
___________
"They" are definitely pushing 'hyperbole' with this issue. They are playing on people's vunerabiities and desperations.
I have to be 'gentle' with this and with my responses, because there is an overwhelming sense of fear and pain in so many lives due to sickness and diseases. I've lived it, so I can understand the feelings of those who support it. It's heart wrenching to see someone you love or an innocent child suffer and die.
But I can see this thing going way off into darkness. And it won't be as much about healing as it will be about espionage. Something's not quite right here.The more I read, the more I'm becoming aware of it.
What I'm about to say is not about anyone personally.
Thoughts....
What scares me is the distachment from the humanity of these embryos, such as. "They're going to be killed anyway...." .
There is something so eery with this comment there.
To me, (and it's just me thinking here). To me, it's seems as if humans are so fearful that it has forced them into a corner to take whatever deems right, or what's handed to them; and this fear has forced them into thinking of themselves and no one else. In case they or a loved one gets sick, this is what they will have at whatever cost of life it took to utilize it.
No one wants to die; I understand that. No one wants to see a loved one die. I FULLY understand that. The same applies to an innocent baby, a precious living, full of life, embryo who did not ask to be created, who has harmed no one, let alone does not deserve to die either for whatever reason. We all started out as an embryo....
There are indeed alternatives.
I'm praying for a peaceable outcome that will benefit life to life; not from death.
__________________
Honestly, I don't see it as a detachment, but rather, a reality. That is what occurs with these embryos. So if the issue is with innocent babies being created, then people need to fight against In Vitro Fertilization or at least the current process. The concern seems misdirected, imo. Honestly, I believe that it is the choice of the two individuals to use this method of pregnancy, although I may not agree with the process. However, if the embryos will be destroyed, it does not seem any more problematic for them to be studied for purposes of preserving life in another manner.
After reading this thread last night, I started to post a 'spin-off' entitled:
What is God's (the Biblical) Perspective on Human Embryo Stem Cell Research?
Many of the replies from Christians, go against God's will for this. There's too much compromise which falls in line with the world's perspective, rather than God's.
As a Christian, I personally know full well that God has a better way. Stem cell research with human embryos, is not the end all for curing diseanses.
As a Christian, My Personal action would be instead, "Father, show me the better way; show me 'YOUR' way, not man's, but your way. ' As Daniel refused to eat of the King's dainties and sweet breads, I as a Christian choose not to take part in what gives man glory as opposed to giving glory unto God .
Human embryos were created by God for one purpose which is to live and grow inside of the mother's body. God did not create them to be killed, however it is obvious that man has and has no conscience about it.
For one to say, "they're going to die anyway", does not justify taking part in it. It sounds like vulchers after the kill.
As a Christian, why take part in something that we know is wrong; something God Himself would not do, nor order us to do. What happens to our testimony? Have Christians lost faith in God to the level of killing innocent souls? And an embryo does have a soul, for God says He knew all of us by name before we were formed and before the earth was created.
Have Christians amputated their arms of faith which once stretched out to honor and worship Him for all that He is and all that He has faithfully promised? Have they amputated their legs which once took pride to walk in His way and in His will?
There is ...................... no failure in God. As Christians, we always have Him to turn to for the right path to walk within. With this topic, God has a better way and not the evil way of man.
I say this in love for everyone. I truly do.
:thatsall:
I'm making sure you know that I'm not sitting in judgment of anyone here. I'm judging the issues and commenting on the mindset.Regarding the bolded: That places one in 'agreement' with the process. And it also expands the continuation of it.
As Christians, we have to be careful with what and whom we agree with. Basically, God is the only one that we are supposed to be in agreement with ..................... Period.
As a Christian we KNOW the God has a better plan. Better options. When God tells us to have nothing to do with the 'ways' of those who do not follow Him, He means it.
It's not like we HAVE to take part in what the world chooses to handle things. Who says the stem cell research is the end all cure? I'd rather take my chances abstaining from being any part of this killing process and allow God to lead me in the paths of Righteousness for His namesake.
As a Chrisitian, are we really that afraid to trust God to heal us beyond what any man can do? Are we really that more confident in placing our lives in the hands of man, as opposed to God's hands, which have never failed us.
If these scientists were seeking God for the answers, they would not be creating embryos just to kill them. We all know that the Human Embryo Research is not going to stop with the Embryos created for Invitro purposes. We know that! It's going to be a mass market for eggs and sperm and then a massacre of death among them.
Nefertiti0906:
Your posts are welcome. You are welcome. You are accepted here. You belong here as a faithful member of the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ (and LHCF!)
I refuse to allow the enemy any space to spin this out of control. He's a liar and there is NO TRUTH in him. NONE. Whatever the devil says, believe the POLAR OPPOSITE.
So I like a rigorous conversation
on a variety of topics and we have had some rigorous conversations here in the Christian Forum. And the only way that true and sincere and open dialogue can continue here is if we remain honest with one another. I was honest about my discomfort about the one statement in your post. I spoke up about it and then I went on with my opinion about the subject matter. You apologized and I should have received it in the sincerity it was given but I WAS WRONG about that. Please forgive me. I repent before the Lord and the forum for my nasty act of pride and lack of mercy and grace.This is a very informative thread about stem cell research from a Christian perspective. This gives us much to think about.
divya
Well-Known Member
Regarding the bolded: That places one in 'agreement' with the process. And it also expands the continuation of it.
As Christians, we have to be careful with what and whom we agree with. Basically, God is the only one that we are supposed to be in agreement with ..................... Period.
As a Christian we KNOW the God has a better plan. Better options. When God tells us to have nothing to do with the 'ways' of those who do not follow Him, He means it.
It's not like we HAVE to take part in what the world chooses to handle things. Who says the stem cell research is the end all cure? I'd rather take my chances abstaining from being any part of this killing process and allow God to lead me in the paths of Righteousness for His namesake.
As a Chrisitian, are we really that afraid to trust God to heal us beyond what any man can do? Are we really that more confident in placing our lives in the hands of man, as opposed to God's hands, which have never failed us.
If these scientists were seeking God for the answers, they would not be creating embryos just to kill them. We all know that the Human Embryo Research is not going to stop with the Embryos created for Invitro purposes. We know that! It's going to be a mass market for eggs and sperm and then a massacre of death among them.
Same here.I agree with the bolded. However, we also must make sure that we are focusing on the proper issue. In your last paragraph, you stated that "If these scientists were seeking God for the answers, they would not be creating embryos just to kill them." Is this the case here? In my understanding, the current issue involves only using those embryos that will be destroyed regardless, in order to further research regarding diseases or more.
If one would like to abstain from "any part of the killing process," is one willing to actually tackle the sources of the embryos? The sources are not the scientists but men and women who would like to conceive. The issue is very complicated. Imo, if one would like for the "killing process" to end, then it will actually entail an attempt to either change the In Vitro Fertilization process or even to abridge the rights of individuals from using their own eggs and sperm to have a child. Doing the latter would then be going against God's grant of freedom of choice.
Yes, the question is trusting God's healing hand. As a Christian, I personally trust Him. However, the additional question is also whether or not one can accept that one simply cannot have a child and should thus adopt or do without children. Are people willing to give that message to others and force them to accept? Because that's exactly where this leads.
However, your concern is certainly shared regarding how far this will go on the other end - creating embryos for the purpose of destruction. When that time comes, I am willing to stand against it. But I simply cannot argue to abridge the choices of simply due to my religious beliefs. God does not permit such actions.
ETA: This world is just so backwards. It's a shame that we even have to deal with issues such as this at all. I pray the day hastens when all of this madness will be over.
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I just saw this.
Stay. I'm sorry if I have hurt you or anyone else here. I truly mean this. So stay.
I respect your feelings...
You're right about getting to the source of where the babies have been initiated, InVitro. I don't have a right to tell a husband and wife that they cannot do this.
But Divya, there has to be restraints and limits on how many embryos are created with the sole premise that innocent lives are being destroyed. If it's more costly, than let that be the price to save an innocent life.
It's a mess, but we don't have to add to it. Do we really think that the research will stop there with the overflow of InVitro Embryos.
This is so sad... so, so sad. Especially to say, 'they're going to die anyway.' Where's the heart?
You know what? There has always been a 'flying rumor' (per say), that there has always been a cure for cancer and other diseases, but the government has been holding out on it. I never wanted to believe this, but sometimes I wonder.
Again, I respect your feelings.
My strong feelings about this, are not about you.
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First of all this.....
I'm not attacking you with anything I share. Here's my perspective:
No one can ever understand the complexities of God......... and yet we do have an understanding of what's right and what's wrong.
Neffertiti, have you ever noticed how so many excuses have arised/arose/arizen
lol for things that are known to be wrong, yet so many excuses are made for them. So much wrong is now being justified. Sadly by many who proclaim themselves 'Christians. One of the main reasons, so much is messed up in this world is because 'we' in humanity become lax in our postitions; we actually fall asleep on the job (and the Bible speaks of this).
Deep in your heart, God's answer is there. "Thou Shallt Not Kill",
Neither are we to be a party to it; nor to an innocent life's destruction. I know the words are out there, screaming and arguing, what about those who are sick who will benefit from this? Of course, but God always had a better way and still does. Man just decided to do it their way instead.
Blessings.....
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Theo
New Member
Did any of you hear about the advances made a couple of years ago regarding stem cell research?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090205133744.htm
Scientists are now able to convert adult stem cells into embryonic-like stem cells, so it side steps the ethical issues regarding the debate. Seems like a wonderful advance as well as cheaper and more convenient for everyone involved.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090205133744.htm
Scientists are now able to convert adult stem cells into embryonic-like stem cells, so it side steps the ethical issues regarding the debate. Seems like a wonderful advance as well as cheaper and more convenient for everyone involved.
Thank you Freelove. My daughter and I have been sharing this information for a while. Your article adds to it.
Now may I have your permission to have a 'Shimmie' moment?
Here goes:
"They coulda' done this in the first place...."
Okay, vent is over....
Thanks again. God bless you.
divya
Well-Known Member
I respect your feelings...
You're right about getting to the source of where the babies have been initiated, InVitro. I don't have a right to tell a husband and wife that they cannot do this.
But Divya, there has to be restraints and limits on how many embryos are created with the sole premise that innocent lives are being destroyed. If it's more costly, than let that be the price to save an innocent life.
It's a mess, but we don't have to add to it. Do we really think that the research will stop there with the overflow of InVitro Embryos.
This is so sad... so, so sad. Especially to say, 'they're going to die anyway.' Where's the heart?
You know what? There has always been a 'flying rumor' (per say), that there has always been a cure for cancer and other diseases, but the government has been holding out on it. I never wanted to believe this, but sometimes I wonder.
Again, I respect your feelings.
I respect your feelings as well. It is a difficult topic. I agree with you that there should be limits. It's just that the limits will have to be for the hopeful parents, in order to stop the killing process. However, we cannot abridge their rights. So where does that leave us? Currently, the choice is between letting the unused embryos be destroyed/rot to death or to allow scientists to study them (which ends their life).
My heart is certainly here but I must be realistic. I just cannot see the sense in arguing to let the embryos rot to death as medical/hazardous waste, as opposed to allowing them to be studied in order to preserve lives in another manner.
It's tough. No, I don't believe that scientists will want to stop there when the embryos are gone. That battle we have to be fought. And yes, there are cures to a number of diseases. Much of the reason why many of us are sick is due to our eating habits and stress levels. The poison that is put in our system daily through many approved medicines or even foods in the supermarket do us more harm than good. But that's another story...
I respect your feelings as well. It is a difficult topic. I agree with you that there should be limits. It's just that the limits will have to be for the hopeful parents, in order to stop the killing process. However, we cannot abridge their rights. So where does that leave us? Currently, the choice is between letting the unused embryos be destroyed/rot to death or to allow scientists to study them (which ends their life).
My heart is certainly here but I must be realistic. I just cannot see the sense in arguing to let the embryos rot to death as medical/hazardous waste, as opposed to allowing them to be studied in order to preserve lives in another manner.
It's tough. No, I don't believe that scientists will want to stop there when the embryos are gone. That battle we have to be fought. And yes, there are cures to a number of diseases. Much of the reason why many of us are sick is due to our eating habits and stress levels. The poison that is put in our system daily through many approved medicines or even foods in the supermarket do us more harm than good. But that's another story...
Amen to your entire post Divya. Whether I agree or disagree with the method, it doesn't blind me to what you are sharing from your heart. I know this may 'seem' like a contradiction, but I understand where your heart is. It's the topic and the method where I take issue with.
Hope that makes sense.
Chile don't get me started on the supermarkets....
This is why I eat 'Green' (fruits/veggies) as much as I can. Processed foods I eat as little as possible.
I find it so 'crazy' that it's cheaper and more convenient to eat unhealthy foods, then it is to eat healthy natural wholesome foods. Go figure
Blessings.... Also I want to thank you and the rest of the ladies for helping me stay aware of everyone's feelings. Whether I agree with a topic or not, I don't want my passion for or against it to be hurtful to others when I 'venting' about it.
I am truly sorry to everyone that I have hurt and/or offended. I'm learning. Each of you are worth it.
divya
Well-Known Member
I know this may 'seem' like a contradiction, but I understand where your heart is. It's the topic and the method where I take issue with.
Hope that makes sense.
Chile don't get me started on the supermarkets....
This is why I eat 'Green' (fruits/veggies) as much as I can. Processed foods I eat as little as possible.
I find it so 'crazy' that it's cheaper and more convenient to eat unhealthy foods, then it is to eat healthy natural wholesome foods. Go figure
Blessings.... Also I want to thank you and the rest of the ladies for helping me stay aware of everyone's feelings. Whether I agree with a topic or not, I don't want my passion for or against it to be hurtful to others when I 'venting' about it.
I am truly sorry to everyone that I have hurt and/or offended. I'm learning. Each of you are worth it.
Completely understand. Our world is just such in a terrible state. The types of things we face are really horrible and saddening. All we can do is do our very best. Let's just pray for Christ's soon coming, so that we don't have to deal with this stuff anymore. What a day that will be!
BTW: Shimmie, you are such a sweetheart girl!
I truly appreciate your humble spirit on this board.
Browndilocks
Browndisha Brownie Sundae
Sigh. I'm feel like I'm going to die (but that's another story). 
Regarding the issue on stem cells, I'm a little torn myself. I work at a place that currently uses stem cell research for some of its findings and I've actually seen some of the benefits of the research. Not to get too far into it; but I work in hearing research. Scientists here develop cochlear implants for those who have lost their hearing. The way a person hears is through the transmission of vibrations on hair cells that are in our inner ear. When those hair cells are damaged or destroyed, hearing loss occurs. Among other things, they use stem cell research to find a way to develop new hair growth cells within in the cochlea so that a person's hearing can be restored. When I see little kids coming in here to get cochlear implant surgery and knowing what that horrid process entails, I do wish that the stem cell developments hurry along.
Yet I am fully aware of the contradictions surrounding God's word. My grandmother is totally against it and I wont argue with her. There are so many ways to get stem cells other than coming from embryos though. Regardless of how I personally feel about abortion, I think its here to stay. So now what? Do we continue to protest or do we accept what is out there and make the best of the situation? I really dont know.
Regarding the issue on stem cells, I'm a little torn myself. I work at a place that currently uses stem cell research for some of its findings and I've actually seen some of the benefits of the research. Not to get too far into it; but I work in hearing research. Scientists here develop cochlear implants for those who have lost their hearing. The way a person hears is through the transmission of vibrations on hair cells that are in our inner ear. When those hair cells are damaged or destroyed, hearing loss occurs. Among other things, they use stem cell research to find a way to develop new hair growth cells within in the cochlea so that a person's hearing can be restored. When I see little kids coming in here to get cochlear implant surgery and knowing what that horrid process entails, I do wish that the stem cell developments hurry along.
Yet I am fully aware of the contradictions surrounding God's word. My grandmother is totally against it and I wont argue with her. There are so many ways to get stem cells other than coming from embryos though. Regardless of how I personally feel about abortion, I think its here to stay. So now what? Do we continue to protest or do we accept what is out there and make the best of the situation? I really dont know.
Completely understand. Our world is just such in a terrible state. The types of things we face are really horrible and saddening. All we can do is do our very best. Let's just pray for Christ's soon coming, so that we don't have to deal with this stuff anymore. What a day that will be!
BTW: Shimmie, you are such a sweetheart girl!
You too Precious Lady. Thanks for putting up with me. I'm still learning.
First of all......... We're not going to let you die...Sigh. I'm feel like I'm going to die (but that's another story).
Regarding the issue on stem cells, I'm a little torn myself. I work at a place that currently uses stem cell research for some of its findings and I've actually seen some of the benefits of the research. Not to get too far into it; but I work in hearing research. Scientists here develop cochlear implants for those who have lost their hearing. The way a person hears is through the transmission of vibrations on hair cells that are in our inner ear. When those hair cells are damaged or destroyed, hearing loss occurs. Among other things, they use stem cell research to find a way to develop new hair growth cells within in the cochlea so that a person's hearing can be restored. When I see little kids coming in here to get cochlear implant surgery and knowing what that horrid process entails, I do wish that the stem cell developments hurry along.
Yet I am fully aware of the contradictions surrounding God's word. My grandmother is totally against it and I wont argue with her. There are so many ways to get stem cells other than coming from embryos though. Regardless of how I personally feel about abortion, I think its here to stay. So now what? Do we continue to protest or do we accept what is out there and make the best of the situation? I really dont know.
As for what we do? This is why God admonished us, "Do Not Conform to this World." God knows the heart of men and how there is no restraint to what men will to for whatever reasons. There are so many paths that look right to men which seem justified and/or logical. But God still says, do not conform.
Thank God for His word and for the Holy Spirit to strengthen us when we are weak or our compassion blinds us from the will of God. We're human, and we susceptable. However, there's still God's way to handle things and this is why He says to seek Him, not man. And He never fails us.
If these scientists had sought the Lord, they would have not had such controvesy in the first place. It's just that simple.
Love to you and again.... we're not going to let you die. You are a diamond among us and we need your brilliance to lead the way.
ETA: See, I almost Jumped for that new Hair Follicle method.
