Christian "FAQ's" - Question / Answer Thread

I find that women are more 'open' to God ...Jael and Sisera powerful story even what Sisera's mom said, she happily accepted stolen gifts from her son, condoning children in their mess is nothing new...

Healthy Hair (notice that I call you this, instead of I want? :yep: ).

So true about women being more open to God or more readily open. Men tend to analyze it first.

You have brought up an excellent study point about Sisera whose faith was not in operation with the heart of God by receiving stolen goods. She was not teaching her son Godly faith let alone principles.

It's interesting how you were able to bring this up to date in our current generations. :up: Healthy Hair, I didn't pay attention to that in my studies before, thanks for pointing this out.

It makes sense and we can see how that 'spirit' has followed the generations.
 
I am loving this thread! :yep:

This might be a little outlandish but.... does the bible have any mention of dinosaurs or aliens? Some people like to say that this is in there but I have never seen it (although I haven't read the bible entirely either).
 
I am loving this thread! :yep:

This might be a little outlandish but.... does the bible have any mention of dinosaurs or aliens? Some people like to say that this is in there but I have never seen it (although I haven't read the bible entirely either).

Thank you delitefulmane; it's a great place to ask and share those questions and answers that we've thought about, but never had a chance to ask. :yep:

Each and everyone of us has a wealth of information to share with each other. It's a good thing to share, our hearts and knowledge.

As for dinosaurs and aliens.

The Bible speaks of beasts in several places, however the ones that come to mind are in Job chapter 40 and 41 and in Isaiah 27. In Job chapter 41 and Isaiah 27 it speaks of a sea 'beast' who was large and dangerous and was called a Leviathan. In Job chapter 40, the Bible mentions the Behemoth which was a huge beast upon land.

Here's some of the scriptures:

Job 40:15-24

15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

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Oh wow... check out this "sea monster", he' pretty tough


Job 41:1-


1Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

2Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

3Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

4Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

5Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

6Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

7Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish
8Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.

9Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?

10None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

11Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.

12I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

13Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?

14Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible

15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

16One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.

17They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

18By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.


21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

22In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

23The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

24His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

25When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

26The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

28The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with
29Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.

30Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

31He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

32He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

33Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

---------------------------------------------

Isaiah 27:1

1.. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Special Note: I have wonderful testimony with Isaiah 27... God is so awesome. I'll have to share it with you one day. :yep:

------------------------------

Whew! :lol:

Is it believed by many that these were the beasts (prehistoric/post history).

Now as for aliens, no :nono: If one has seen an alien, then it was demon spirit. And to be honest, a demon is an alien in this earth for without a human body, it is illegal to be in the earth realm.

When the Bible speaks of the word, 'alien' it means one who is/or was alienated from Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2). ... for God made the two 'One'. Because of the Blood of Jesus we are no longer alienated from Christ Jesus our Lord.

I know the other members can expound on this. I'm looking forward to their responses. :yep:
 
Shimmie, I've understood Leviathan to be both literal and figurative... the serpent..Satan himself. The twisting spirit... as well as a sea creature.
 
HealthyHair, I've never liked, nor accepted, that term 'alien'... both from my own personal experiences as a foreigner and from the stigmatism attached to the word, to subjugate others to inferiority. Just my humble opinion.. :yep:
or of course a foreigner in a new country
 
This was on my heart to say a few days ago and I'll share it today.

I understand this analogy and the historical context of the needle; however, I will add that the lesson missed by this rich man was not that he was rich but that he'd failed to trust God. It's like someone hanging by a rope on a cliff, and God telling them to let go of that rope, that He will catch them, if only they let go. This rich man had more trust in his riches than in Jesus, so it was impossible for him to let go of his possessions. That is why his countenance had fallen. God was asking him to give up something he held dearly -- his riches. He found that to be impossible, because he wanted to keep what he had for himself and for his purpose.

At the same token, Jesus came from humble beginnings yet lacked NOTHING. He always had substance, means and ways of getting around. Who provided this? Of course, God the Father. I believe that any wealth that comes from God is given to man for a purpose, His Divine Will. Joseph was endowed with great wealth, because it was all a part of God's plan to save his people from death. Joseph loved God more than he loved wealth. He was content, even in prison! Why, because God was with Him. He didn't allow anything (riches) or anyone (his brothers) to get between him and God. If only this rich man had known this....

My point, just because a person has great wealth on earth, doesn't mean they'll have a hard time making it to heaven. The earth is the Lord's..it's all God's stuff! Why horde it or keep for personal gain? Like with Joseph and Abraham, God chooses whom to endow with wealth and substance to accomplish His Will. As a result, many were blessed because the money flowed through the right hands. It's like being a funnel on earth for God's glory.

To put wealth and material possessions before God is to disobey the First Commandment. That is why many Believers are givers, tithers...they understand what Jesus is saying in Mark 10. Give, freely... in all things and trust Him.


I don't have a question, yet, but I agree with the bolded.
For the longest when I heard the scripture Mark 10: 25 "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle,than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God", I immediately related it to my knowledge.....A SEWING NEEDLE.

It was not until a bible study with a friend who shared with me what her father had taught her, from his research using biblical supplemental texts, that the needle is referring to a small hole in the Wall of Jerusalem known as the "The Eye of Needle." This task was often a HARD one because the camel had to kneel and crawl to enter through. This task wasn't IMPOSSIBLE, just VERY DIFFICULT. Jesus used this as analogical reference to his disciples to compare to a rich man entering into heaven.
 
understood, but I meant that it is mentioned in the bible it that context (alien in a strange land) and so are we aliens in this earthly world


HealthyHair, I've never liked, nor accepted, that term 'alien'... both from my own personal experiences as a foreigner and from the stigmatism attached to the word, to subjugate others to inferiority. Just my humble opinion.. :yep:
 
^^Gotcha, understood and ITA. I was speaking from a more terrestrial level. :lol:
 
Shimmie, I've understood Leviathan to be both literal and figurative... the serpent..Satan himself. The twisting spirit... as well as a sea creature.

Laela... You're exactly right, it represents both. :yep:

Laela, if I'm not mistaken I believe that Revelation mentions it as satan in more relevance. I have to look this one up to make sure.
 
Thank you delitefulmane; it's a great place to ask and share those questions and answers that we've thought about, but never had a chance to ask. :yep:


----------------



Special Note: I have wonderful testimony with Isaiah 27... God is so awesome. I'll have to share it with you one day. :yep:

------------------------------

Whew! :lol:

Is it believed by many that these were the beasts (prehistoric/post history).

Now as for aliens, no :nono: If one has seen an alien, then it was demon spirit. And to be honest, a demon is an alien in this earth for without a human body, it is illegal to be in the earth realm.

When the Bible speaks of the word, 'alien' it means one who is/or was alienated from Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2). ... for God made the two 'One'. Because of the Blood of Jesus we are no longer alienated from Christ Jesus our Lord.

I know the other members can expound on this. I'm looking forward to their responses. :yep:


Shimmie, Thank you so much for this Shimmie! I have never heard these topics put as you put them! I look forward to hearing your testimony on Isaiah 27. Whenever you feel like sharing, hit me up in PM'land! :yep: Thank you :hug2: :flowers:

This was on my heart to say a few days ago and I'll share it today.

I understand this analogy and the historical context of the needle; however, I will add that the lesson missed by this rich man was not that he was rich but that he'd failed to trust God. It's like someone hanging by a rope on a cliff, and God telling them to let go of that rope, that He will catch them, if only they let go. This rich man had more trust in his riches than in Jesus, so it was impossible for him to let go of his possessions. That is why his countenance had fallen. God was asking him to give up something he held dearly -- his riches. He found that to be impossible, because he wanted to keep what he had for himself and for his purpose.

At the same token, Jesus came from humble beginnings yet lacked NOTHING. He always had substance, means and ways of getting around. Who provided this? Of course, God the Father. I believe that any wealth that comes from God is given to man for a purpose, His Divine Will. Joseph was endowed with great wealth, because it was all a part of God's plan to save his people from death. Joseph loved God more than he loved wealth. He was content, even in prison! Why, because God was with Him. He didn't allow anything (riches) or anyone (his brothers) to get between him and God. If only this rich man had known this....

My point, just because a person has great wealth on earth, doesn't mean they'll have a hard time making it to heaven. The earth is the Lord's..it's all God's stuff! Why horde it or keep for personal gain? Like with Joseph and Abraham, God chooses whom to endow with wealth and substance to accomplish His Will. As a result, many were blessed because the money flowed through the right hands. It's like being a funnel on earth for God's glory.

To put wealth and material possessions before God is to disobey the First Commandment. That is why many Believers are givers, tithers...they understand what Jesus is saying in Mark 10. Give, freely... in all things and trust Him.
Laela
This really blessed me! I have been fighting with myself about not being as giving as I should. Often times, I feel like I am struggling trying to make it so I can't help anyone. Feeling like this, I hope I have not missed out Gods blessing by not helping angels I have met unawares. There have been times when I have felt an "urge" to help a stranger but I think I have been too selfish to actually help. And the sad part is, I know better! :nono: I know God provides for us when we follow Him and his Word. So thank you for this! :hug2:
:flowers:
 
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ANOTHER THING Shimmie
Here's some of the scriptures:

Job 40:15-24

15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.

20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.

21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.

22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.

23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.

24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

THE BIBLE HAS SO MANY ANALOGIES ITS HARD TO TELL WHETHER WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN OF AS LITERAL OR FIGURATIVE.

----------------
Now as for aliens, no :nono: If one has seen an alien, then it was demon spirit. And to be honest, a demon is an alien in this earth for without a human body, it is illegal to be in the earth realm.

When the Bible speaks of the word, 'alien' it means one who is/or was alienated from Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2). ... for God made the two 'One'. Because of the Blood of Jesus we are no longer alienated from Christ Jesus our Lord.

I know the other members can expound on this. I'm looking forward to their responses. :yep:

So if they don't really exist like the books show with "spaceships" and what not, how do people have such "detailed" descriptions as they do?
 
Funny you all are talking spaceships...I've been wondering about crop circles cuz some of these designs have deep kabbalistic or biblical mysticism and meanings. I think some are demonic..but some others? I think it could be angels giving signs.
 
ANOTHER THING Shimmie


THE BIBLE HAS SO MANY ANALOGIES ITS HARD TO TELL WHETHER WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN OF AS LITERAL OR FIGURATIVE.



So if they don't really exist like the books show with "spaceships" and what not, how do people have such "detailed" descriptions as they do?

It's called 'vain imaginations'; deceptions of the enemy (satan); distractions from focusing on God.

All through time, people have 'imagined' other beings. Much of it comes from curiosity and even more of it comes from people sharing with others what they have imagined. Long before the media and technology, people have 'imagined' other images of life however, it will never prove true for God has made it plain whom He created, how, when and why beginning in Genesis chapter 1.

The subject of aliens, the occult plays a major part in this. It is no secret that there are people who are heavily involved in satanic rituals and in this practice it can produce illusions, delusions, and the presence of spirits of darkness.

God's Word is clear about this, quite clear (Ephesians 6) spiritual wickedness, principalities, powers of the air. All of which are aliens of God; all of which we see each day in full operation.

Space ships are vain imaginations. Aliens from other planets do not exist. Apparitians (ghosts), spirits... are demonic spirits manifesting themselves to either incite fear or facination and even idolatry. It only serves one thing which is a distraction from God's focus.
 
What do you guys think of Christian Science?

Thank you zora.... Excellent topic to discuss. :up:

Bottomline, it's not scripturally sound. It's based upon human 'will' and philosophies, not the Word of God.

I can share in more detail later. I'm more than sure our other members here can and will share as well. Perhaps sometime tomorrow. :yep:

Sweet sleep :sleep2: for now.
 
Thank you zora.... Excellent topic to discuss. :up:

Bottomline, it's not scripturally sound. It's based upon human 'will' and philosophies, not the Word of God.

I can share in more detail later. I'm more than sure our other members here can and will share as well. Perhaps sometime tomorrow. :yep:

Sweet sleep :sleep2: for now.

Please do! Thanks!
 
Please do! Thanks!

Zora, I think you've asked a very important question and one of many that is necessary to for Christians to review.

Here is an article which can explain it with more details. Hope this helps. :yep:

"What is the difference between Christianity and Christian science?"


http://www.thisisyourbible.com/media.asp?id=305

True Christianity is based on the fundamental truths of the Bible. While Christian Science is based on the writings of Mary Baker Eddy [b. 1821 d. 1910] who claimed to be an inspired prophetess. Her writings in many aspects directly contradict the teaching of the Bible. [See Galatians 1:6-9].

It's interesting how otherwise unsupportable ideas are justified by this appeal to personal authority such as Mary Baker Eddy claiming to be inspired by the spirit. I have met Catholics like that - no matter what the Bible says, they adhere to the majesterium (teaching authority) of the church. I was raised Catholic. Some of my mother's friends in the CWL [Catholic Womens League] claimed personal authority because they firmly believed that Mary herself had spoken to them. These were/are wonderful, sincere people. They are also gravely mistaken.

Every Evangelical/Pentecostal I have ever encountered tells me the same thing as the Chrisitian Scientists.

When it comes right down to it, their beliefs are based on personal authority - (Note to Zora: This is what I mentioned in my original post regarding human 'will').

.....they have been personally inspired to know that what they believe is true or their leaders are so inspired. I have had several who claimed that they have no use for Bible study and reading because they have a direct relationship to God through His spirit.


1 John 4:1 tells us to try/test the spirits whether they be of God. Isaiah (8:20) says, To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. That is the test. There is only one way to equip yourself to determine the truth or falsehood of those like the sincere but mistaken followers of Christian Science and that is to understand the Bible for yourself.

--------------------

zora

I ommitted the writers personal comments...the fact is that Christian Science denies the truth of the Bible's Teachings, especially the Truth of the Diety of Jesus Christ, which is denied by them.
Love and blessings, Zora :giveheart:
 
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Question--and please offer your "thinking out loud", even if you aren't sure of the answer.


My main question is "Why was Peter not chastised by the Lord, when other faithful servants of His who failed were?"

Peter denied Christ three times. Jesus even said to Peter before that, "Get behind me, Satan." Jesus forgives and restores Peter, such that Peter was able to move forward in leadership as an apostle. However, in times past, disobedience could mean a stripping of one's position before God's people.

Moses served faithfully until he struck the rock instead of speaking to it like the Lord told him to, "And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 'Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.'” Numbers 20:12 And so Joshua and Caleb led the people in.

Although God had appointed Saul, his repeated disobedience as king resulted in the position being taken away from him. "And Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.'" 1 Samuel 15:28


Some believers say that after Christ's death and resurrection, Christians are not punished, because Christ took our punishment on the cross. We are only disciplined to bring us back into line with God's will. So, before Christ's death and resurrection, disobedience may have resulted in unalterable punishment (there was nothing Moses could do to get the Lord to change in order to let him enter Canaan); but after Christ's death, because Christ has taken our punishment, repentance can bring restoration. So if a person (or leader repents) God will put them back on track for what He originally intended them to do. Do you think this is true?

Please share.
 
nicola.kirwan said:
Question--and please offer your "thinking out loud", even if you aren't sure of the answer.

My main question is "Why was Peter not chastised by the Lord, when other faithful servants of His who failed were?"

Peter denied Christ three times. Jesus even said to Peter before that, "Get behind me, Satan." Jesus forgives and restores Peter, such that Peter was able to move forward in leadership as an apostle. However, in times past, disobedience could mean a stripping of one's position before God's people.

Moses served faithfully until he struck the rock instead of speaking to it like the Lord told him to, "And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 'Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.'” Numbers 20:12 And so Joshua and Caleb led the people in.

Although God had appointed Saul, his repeated disobedience as king resulted in the position being taken away from him. "And Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.'" 1 Samuel 15:28

Some believers say that after Christ's death and resurrection, Christians are not punished, because Christ took our punishment on the cross. We are only disciplined to bring us back into line with God's will. So, before Christ's death and resurrection, disobedience may have resulted in unalterable punishment (there was nothing Moses could do to get the Lord to change in order to let him enter Canaan); but after Christ's death, because Christ has taken our punishment, repentance can bring restoration. So if a person (or leader repents) God will put them back on track for what He originally intended them to do. Do you think this is true?

Please share.

Yes I do.

God also knows our hearts. Like when he put the Israelites in the wilderness, they didn't do anything that bad IMO, but their hearts really didn't trust God, they were grumbling, and also bent towards idolatry.

Jesus had already told Peter what was going to happen and and we can see Peter's heart as he keeps telling Him "no I would never deny you". Peter wasn't being rebellious, but it was more his flesh nature acting out (Romans 7:19 "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing").

And Peter was appalled at what he'd done... I can almost hear him gasp and the look of horror on his face once that rooster crowed and he realized what had happened - that Jesus was right and he had just denied him 3 times.

In my head I'm comparing and contrasting Peter and Judas...

Judas was never really a disciple.

Judas' heart was probably already dead set against the Lord and his turning him in was an act of rebellion, not just a slip up.

When you're truly God's child, grace abounds.
 
Racial division in Christianity bothers me when I heaR things like the black church or a white church I wonder if the spirit of disunity is at play...
 
Question--and please offer your "thinking out loud", even if you aren't sure of the answer.


My main question is "Why was Peter not chastised by the Lord, when other faithful servants of His who failed were?"

Peter denied Christ three times. Jesus even said to Peter before that, "Get behind me, Satan." Jesus forgives and restores Peter, such that Peter was able to move forward in leadership as an apostle. However, in times past, disobedience could mean a stripping of one's position before God's people.

Moses served faithfully until he struck the rock instead of speaking to it like the Lord told him to, "And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 'Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.'” Numbers 20:12 And so Joshua and Caleb led the people in.

Although God had appointed Saul, his repeated disobedience as king resulted in the position being taken away from him. "And Samuel said to him, 'The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel from you this day and has given it to a neighbor of yours, who is better than you.'" 1 Samuel 15:28


Some believers say that after Christ's death and resurrection, Christians are not punished, because Christ took our punishment on the cross. We are only disciplined to bring us back into line with God's will. So, before Christ's death and resurrection, disobedience may have resulted in unalterable punishment (there was nothing Moses could do to get the Lord to change in order to let him enter Canaan); but after Christ's death, because Christ has taken our punishment, repentance can bring restoration. So if a person (or leader repents) God will put them back on track for what He originally intended them to do. Do you think this is true?

Please share.

This is a really good question, and I'm uncertain of the answer, but my belief is "yes". Here is me thinking out loud:

Peter not only denied Christ three times, but he:
1) attempted to dissuade Jesus from following through with the Lord's plan (Matthew 16:22-24)
2) feared what others would think, and in that, almost did harm to the church (Galatians 2:11-21)

At this point, why didn't the Lord replace Peter? I think you nailed it with the reality that Christ's death and resurrection took our punishment to the cross and allowed room for repentance to bring restoration.

I also believe that sometimes, though repentance can bring about restoration, it may not always happen because of the reality that we also have free will. For example, the wife who cheats on her husband and later repents should not expect her marriage to be restored. Sure repentance can bring about restoration, but God also gave her husband free will (i.e., a choice between staying in the marriage or leaving).

But yes, in the case of the leaders you mentioned, I believe Peter would've been smote or removed had it not been for Christ.
 
It's clear how God feels about idolatry and ungratefulness...Imagine you as a parent doing everything for your child and they are still ungrateful, complaining and grumbling at every turn...

The Israelites were given food and water that they didn't work for, clothes and shoes that never looked old/worn a place to lay there heads and protection, they were victorious in battle experienced countless miracles and they were rich yet they longed for their previous life of bondage...

Moses goes up to the mount for a few days and when he comes down the people are having orgies and worshipping idols...it would seem that nothing God gave them could satisify them no wonder his anger vaxed hot...

Yes I do.

God also knows our hearts. Like when he put the Israelites in the wilderness, they didn't do anything that bad IMO, but their hearts really didn't trust God, they were grumbling, and also bent towards idolatry.

Jesus had already told Peter what was going to happen and and we can see Peter's heart as he keeps telling Him "no I would never deny you". Peter wasn't being rebellious, but it was more his flesh nature acting out (Romans 7:19 "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing").

And Peter was appalled at what he'd done... I can almost hear him gasp and the look of horror on his face once that rooster crowed and he realized what had happened - that Jesus was right and he had just denied him 3 times.

In my head I'm comparing and contrasting Peter and Judas...

Judas was never really a disciple.

Judas' heart was probably already dead set against the Lord and his turning him in was an act of rebellion, not just a slip up.

When you're truly God's child, grace abounds.
 
Question--and please offer your "thinking out loud", even if you aren't sure of the answer.

Some believers say that after Christ's death and resurrection, Christians are not punished, because Christ took our punishment on the cross. We are only disciplined to bring us back into line with God's will. So, before Christ's death and resurrection, disobedience may have resulted in unalterable punishment (there was nothing Moses could do to get the Lord to change in order to let him enter Canaan); but after Christ's death, because Christ has taken our punishment, repentance can bring restoration. So if a person (or leader repents) God will put them back on track for what He originally intended them to do. Do you think this is true?

Please share.

Excellent question. The Lord gave Moses and Aaron a specific instruction (to speak to the rock) but instead the rock was struck:

2 Now there was no water for the community, and the people gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron. 3 They quarreled with Moses and said, “If only we had died when our brothers fell dead before the LORD! 4 Why did you bring the LORD’s community into this wilderness, that we and our livestock should die here? 5 Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!”
6 Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the tent of meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the LORD appeared to them. 7 The LORD said to Moses, 8 “Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.”
9 So Moses took the staff from the LORD’s presence, just as he commanded him. 10 He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.
12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”
13 These were the waters of Meribah,[a] where the Israelites quarreled with the LORD and where he was proved holy among them.





Because of the Lord's response, it is clear that Moses' instruction to speak to the rock should have included a public prayer or invocation of the Lord to perform this miracle (through His servant Moses) before the Israelites. Not only did Moses disobey a direct instruction from the Lord, he also failed to appropriately attribute the miracle and the provision of the water to the Providence and Holiness of the Lord. This would cause a lack of faith in the people of Israel (as you can see they've already been complaining and quarreling). When God's people lack faith and go astray, it's a very dangerous thing.


Samuel said to Saul:
22 But Samuel replied:
“Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the LORD?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the LORD,
he has rejected you as king.”



Saul's sin of rebellion and disobedience are equated with divination and idolatry. Both divination and idolatry unjustly takes away the supremacy, holiness, power, honor and trust that is owed to God alone (the 1st and 2nd Commandments). As king of Israel, Saul not only represented himself, but the people of God as well. What he did affected God's people, and by publicly disobeying God (just as Moses did), he endangered the spiritual well being of God's people.


So what do these two have in common?


1. A leader of God's people
2. God gives a direct command that will result in His glory and accomplish both spiritual and physical benefits for His people
3. That leader disobeys in the sight of God's people
4. That leader is chastised


As for Peter, while it was shameful and wrong for him to deny Christ three times, his fault wasn't rebellion like that of Moses and Saul. This is perhaps why he was dealt with differently. We can also see later by reading Acts and the epistles of Peter, that he had since grown in maturity, holiness, and dedication to the Lord. Eventually Peter himself was crucified, rather than deny Christ.
 
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