cassia obovata support thread AKA neutral henna

[girlcherokee]

i would like to start a support thread specifically about cassia obovata. i have been reading thru tons of henna threads but what i really want to know is about cassia. i do not want to color my hair, i just want the strenth and thickness that can come from this. almost one month post discovering this wonderful place, my hair is at minimal breakage. but i would really like to be able to wear it out 2x per week - (dont mind buns and ponytails for the rest of the week), and comb it daily so i am trying to create a regimen that will ultimately give me, soft, shiney, strong, thick relaxed hair that can take a bit of abuse - i dont use heat but i do like to style and comb. so i am looking at cassia and i would appreciate hearing from anyone who is using this strickly for the conditioning properties. shikakai and other herbs, i would like to hear about as well, as i know that these can also enhance. please share your cassia and indian herbal regimens and suggestions.

 

[soonergirl]

Bumping...... I have a pack of this sitting in the cabinet waiting to be used!!!

 

[AngelDoll]

***Subscribing***

 

[jamaraa]

What do you want to know? Cassia is very straight forward. It works just like henna w/o leaving the red. It'll give you conditioning and won't show up on dark hair...tho it is NOT "neutral". It colors blonde hair vibrantly and it'll show up on greys. It sparkles and shines, so remember this for greys if you leave it on and/or dye release it.

I just did this on my aunt tonight....I mixed a little (1/4 tsp each) of shakakai, bhringraj, brahmi, and fenugreek (ie methi) along w/ 1 tablespoon of tumeric. I did not use amla because alma is astringent and works against the natural relaxing properties of both cassia and henna. It turned out BEAUTIFULLY. My aunt is a natural blonde and the color showed beautifully on the grey and the non grey. It gave the same thickening, strengthening, and conditioning properties as henna gives, but w/o the red.

Leave out the tumeric...I used it because my aunt is blonde and we wanted the color, but the other stuff you can add (or not) if you choose. Cassia obovata as a conditioner works beautifully and on the same principal as henna. No acids (ie lemon juice, oj, acv, etc..) are necessary and for dark hair seeking only conditioning, no real dye release time is required. Just mix it w/ warm water and let it set about 1 hr or so...then use as you've read about henna. Longer time if you need more conditioning (2hr+)...less time if you need less (30 mins-1hr).

 

[cmw45]

Bumping...... I have a pack of this sitting in the cabinet waiting to be used!!!

I love your avatar. Really cute baby.

So...where did you get your cassia from? I have wanted to try it but all of the places that I have seen about ordering it online are really expensive.

 

[jamaraa]

^^^ If you get it on Ebay, the Indians will get you on the shipping (shipping from India) and the other sellers sell a different species cassia than obovata. Just get it from Catherine over at www.mehandi.com. She's expensive, but cassia (unlike henna) isn't as popular and easy to get where you're certain of the quality and she's US based. You know postage and turnaround time upfront (she's fast). I can't think of anyone else reputable and reasonably priced who sells it other than these two sources, but you might try Henna Sooq...tho she ships from Canada.

Buy some of Catherine's $1 samples of cassia and whatever else you want to try and test it on your "harvested" hair. That's the best way to see if it's for you.

 

[girlcherokee]

thank you so much jamaara. i see that with henna there are so many different recipes and ways to use it. but since cassia is mostly used for conditioning i was wondering if there are other powders or oils that can be mixed with this to enhance certain effects.
for example:
i went to my local indian store and found some shikakai and a henna blend with by uttum(ever heard of it?) it's named herbal henna and has henna leaf powder and amla and shikakai. now, since i did not want the color i mixed more of the shikakai powder with that so the paste was probably at least 60% shikakai - added some vatika oil and castor oil and left it on my hair for 2hrs. hmmm. washed it out - jamaara you prob know what i will say next. my hair felt, well errr super clarified? stripped? uhh and dry. porous comes to mind? but not in the worst way, i have experienced way worse. i rinsed once with Trader joes conditioner which actually did a great job of detangling and then i pulled out my beloved ors replenishing added evoo and castor and left it on for a couple of hours(this always works!). it was a little better but my buttery soft hair, that was barely shedding and not breaking had still not returned. still feels very squeaky so last night i slept with aubrey organics honeysuckled rose(with vatika and castor mixed in)
better this morning but still feels, well stripped and squeaky. i am not freaking cuz my hair has been waaaaay worse - and the bit of breakage and shedding that i see is nothing compared to what i have experienced daily prior to finding LHCF(i aught to be shot for even mentioning it honestly). but now i know i can have hair that does not break and barely sheds and that is strong and butterly soft. and now i know that these indian herbs are quite powerful, in the hands of someone that know what they are doing. if i knew what i was doing and used the right herbs, my results could have been stunning so i really want to know more.

now to answer your question:

i want scalp health - my scalp tends to itch very badly during growth spurts(not when i was natural though) and by the time it is time to touch up it is VERY sore. i would like to heal this, perhaps with ayurvedic herbs?

and my hair, is very thin and does not have the "snap" - you know when you break a healthy hair, you hear that "pop" - well i have not heard that in many moons. i want it back if i can have it, and now i think it could be possible. given the effect of this treatment yesterday - even though i am not happy with the results, i can see the possiblities. so i guess, sorry for the loooong post - what i want is:
to know how i can use cassia blended with other herbs to best have strong, shiny and healthy hair growing out of a healthy not so sensative scalp.
how should i work this into my regimen, up til now i have been doing the whole moisture protien balance, - how do these herbs work into that? do i replace my protien treatments with these treatments instead? besides the squeaky squeaky squeaky clean feeling this also felt like a protein treatment.

 

[jamaraa]

thank you so much jamaara. i see that with henna there are so many different recipes and ways to use it. but since cassia is mostly used for conditioning i was wondering if there are other powders or oils that can be mixed with this to enhance certain effects.
for example:
i went to my local indian store and found some shikakai and a henna blend with by uttum(ever heard of it?) it's named herbal henna and has henna leaf powder and amla and shikakai. now, since i did not want the color i mixed more of the shikakai powder with that so the paste was probably at least 60% shikakai -

This is a long post w/ several major points, so I'm going to break it up into parts based on those points.

Henna ALWAYS leaves color when it's used, no matter how tiny the amount used in a mix. The main thing henna does is leave color, the conditioning benefit is incidental, but a very nice one. So even w/ that much shikakai erplexed, you got a little color even if it doesn't show up. If you used the whole package and mixed the shikakai in, you got plenty of color!

I've heard of the Uttam brand, but I've never used it. I don't use the blends because they always seem to have amla in them. Amla works to define and reinforce curls (in hair that's already curly) whereas henna helps gradually relax curls over time. Since I want the gradual relaxing effect (LOL...not like a real chemical relaxer, it simply naturally loosens the curl pattern a bit over time) amla would work against that affect. I do use amla in other ways, just not in my henna. Amla also has a mild astringent effect when used in powder form, so I prefer it in oil form.

 

[jamaraa]

least 60% shikakai - added some vatika oil and castor oil and left it on my hair for 2hrs. hmmm. washed it out - jamaara you prob know what i will say next. my hair felt, well errr super clarified? stripped? uhh and dry. porous comes to mind? but not in the worst way, i have experienced way worse. i rinsed once with Trader joes conditioner which actually did a great job of detangling and then i pulled out my beloved ors replenishing added evoo and castor and left it on for a couple of hours(this always works!). it was a little better but my buttery soft hair, that was barely shedding and not breaking had still not returned. still feels very squeaky so last night i slept with aubrey organics honeysuckled rose(with vatika and castor mixed in) better this morning but still feels, well stripped and squeaky. i am not freaking cuz my hair has been waaaaay worse - and the bit of breakage and shedding that i see is nothing compared to what i have experienced daily prior to finding LHCF(i aught to be shot for even mentioning it honestly). but now i know i can have hair that does not break and barely sheds and that is strong and butterly soft. and now i know that these indian herbs are quite powerful, in the hands of someone that know what they are doing. if i knew what i was doing and used the right herbs, my results could have been stunning so i really want to know more.

Well you used WAY too much shikakai. Many times this herb is used as a shampoo/conditioner even tho it doesn't foam like aritha (aka soapwort/reetha), so while it conditions it can also strip oils. It's Veda's 2-in-1 product if used a certain way. It can be used to remove the extra oils from your hair and clean it in lieu of a more traditional shampoo. Of course, for African textured hair, oil removal isn't our ultimate goal...it's the opposite, getting moisture. Shikakai in small amounts ...maybe a tablespoon or so at the most...is fine, but ounces of it won't give us the results we seek.

I'm glad you had something on hand to counteract the "stripping" affect shikakai can give. I have some shikakai bars that I sometimes use as a 1st wash because it strips, but I immediately use a moisturizing shampoo for my 2nd wash, so I get the benefit of the shikakai w/o the downside.

Next time, think in terms of teaspoons and tablespoons, not percentages! LOL

BTW, did you just use raw powders or did you make a tea of them? I think the tea form might be gentler than the raw powders, so if you didn't do a tea, try that next time.

 

[jamaraa]

now to answer your question:

i want scalp health - my scalp tends to itch very badly during growth spurts(not when i was natural though) and by the time it is time to touch up it is VERY sore. i would like to heal this, perhaps with ayurvedic herbs?

and my hair, is very thin and does not have the "snap" - you know when you break a healthy hair, you hear that "pop" - well i have not heard that in many moons. i want it back if i can have it, and now i think it could be possible. given the effect of this treatment yesterday - even though i am not happy with the results, i can see the possiblities. so i guess, sorry for the loooong post - what i want is:
to know how i can use cassia blended with other herbs to best have strong, shiny and healthy hair growing out of a healthy not so sensative scalp.
how should i work this into my regimen, up til now i have been doing the whole moisture protien balance, - how do these herbs work into that? do i replace my protien treatments with these treatments instead? besides the squeaky squeaky squeaky clean feeling this also felt like a protein treatment.

Fenugreek (ie methi) is great for the scalp, it also tastes pretty good to as a cooking spice! A little fenugreek to your Vedic mixes might help you w/ the itching.

I listed the herbs that I think are great in cassia/henna mixes and which to avoid in those mixes (but use elsewhere). The herbs themselves won't do much wrt protein because they are plants, BUT henna/cassia can have a "proteinlike" effect on hair by strengthening it. Some people prone to protein overload should use henna/cassia carefully...but you obviously aren't someone prone to protein issues. As I said, buy some samples for cassia from Catherine Cartwright-Jones and test it on your hair to see if you like how it feels 1st.

If you get the strength from the cassia/henna you seek, then I guess you can replace your protein treatments. It all depends on how your hair responds and if that's to your liking. I think you're still going to have to be concerned about the protein-moisture balance, but perhaps cassia can replace a more traditional product for you. Everyone's different.

Since you are relaxed, you're going to have to work your treatments around the relaxer. The week before and week after, lay off the herbs and use plain oil (not Vatika) something like coconut or jojoba. You want to be mindful of interactions between the herbs and the chemicals, both before and after your relaxers, you will be fine methinks.

 

[gogo]

thanks OP for starting this thread...i still have several packages of Henna Sooq's cassia (it came really fast, even from Canada) left. I never felt I was using it to it's full conditioning potential and was hesitant to "play" with it after my henna mix experience: it left my natural hair dryer but definitely stronger & tho' i loved the shine i hated the color (thought it would make my dull, ashy brown hair pop instead i got a red/burgundyish tone that's finally inching it's way down my lenght...looking forward to cassia's goodness with no color change (lovin my sandy, summery new growth!) So glad to have jamaraa's input (thanks!)

 

[Lucky's Mom]

I love Cassia!

I love it because it allows me to deep condition for strength - and I don't have to worry about the mess of henna.

I use cassia, hot water, and a bit of amla powder ( a teaspoon) in the mix........ Using my fingers, I plop it on, wrap my hair in plastic and use heat for the 1st hour. I leave it on for quite sometime, and yes, my grays are sparkling gold!

However - I love how strong my hair becomes with this treatment..... I used cassia before my last set of braids, to make sure that I was not braiding weak hair.


Like with any Henna treatment - a moisturizing Deep Conditioning with heat is a MUST.

I will continue to use cassia as a staple. I use half and freeze what I don't use.

 

[girlcherokee]

thank you so much jamaara for your response. i actually have fenugreek - a big jar of it since i tend to be into indian cooking too(love indian food!).
i used the powders straight - i did not make tea with them. i have been adding moisturizer to my hair every few hours today - and i upped the glycerin in my aloevera glycerin mix. so my hair is beginning to feel better. it was a great learning expereince but i guess i was shocked that the herbs had such an intense effect. not sure why i was shocked though since i do use herbal remedies for health and such.
oh and the almla - that explains why i got some wave pattern back in my pretty straight newly touched up new growth. and also why my hair probably looks allot closer to being texlaxed now than it did before this treatment. oh well.
my only problem with henna i think is that i do not want to cover my few gray hair. i only have a few but they are in a visible area so i kinda like them and definately dont want to end up with red or orange strands. as for the rest of my hair, i dont necessarily want red hair but some version of brown would not bother me.

 

[jamaraa]

I love Cassia!

I love it because it allows me to deep condition for strength - and I don't have to worry about the mess of henna.

I use cassia, hot water, and a bit of amla powder ( a teaspoon) in the mix........ Using my fingers, I plop it on, wrap my hair in plastic and use heat for the 1st hour. I leave it on for quite sometime, and yes, my grays are sparkling gold!

However - I love how strong my hair becomes with this treatment..... I used cassia before my last set of braids, to make sure that I was not braiding weak hair.


Like with any Henna treatment - a moisturizing Deep Conditioning with heat is a MUST.

I will continue to use cassia as a staple. I use half and freeze what I don't use.

Thank you for saying this Samantha...you've proven that cassia is not colorless or neutral on greys. LOL...I didn't want anyone expecting no color to be surprised by little blondies peaking thru.

Yup, like henna, but unlike indigo, it can be frozen and reused.

 

[jamaraa]

thank you so much jamaara for your response. i actually have fenugreek - a big jar of it since i tend to be into indian cooking too(love indian food!).
i used the powders straight - i did not make tea with them. i have been adding moisturizer to my hair every few hours today - and i upped the glycerin in my aloevera glycerin mix. so my hair is beginning to feel better. it was a great learning expereince but i guess i was shocked that the herbs had such an intense effect. not sure why i was shocked though since i do use herbal remedies for health and such.
oh and the almla - that explains why i got some wave pattern back in my pretty straight newly touched up new growth. and also why my hair probably looks allot closer to being texlaxed now than it did before this treatment. oh well.
my only problem with henna i think is that i do not want to cover my few gray hair. i only have a few but they are in a visible area so i kinda like them and definately dont want to end up with red or orange strands. as for the rest of my hair, i dont necessarily want red hair but some version of brown would not bother me.

Well since you already have fenugreek, use it and you'll be happy. 1/4 tsp and you're straight. LOL...it'll knock that dandruff right out.

Yup, the amla gave your natural curl more OOPMH...so if you like it, keep w/ it, if not just use it in oil form. It's good stuff, but some people might not want the curl being reinforced. If you do, use it.

A tea will simply give you all the goodness w/o the hassle. Cheesecloth, the little empty tea bags at health food stores, or one of those old fashioned loose tea strainers will do the trick.

Cassia is your baby then...you're greybies will sparkle and look extra cute. Go for it, I say. LOL....you could get a sample and make sure you add a grey or two to the mix, see if you like the affect on the grey.

Veda is strong stuff and works well if used properly. LOL..it WORKS and has 4,000 years of use/knowledge w/ it. Who'd do something for 4 millennia if it didn't work?

 

[girlcherokee]

Veda is strong stuff and works well if used properly. LOL..it WORKS and has 4,000 years of use/knowledge w/ it. Who'd do something for 4 millennia if it didn't work?

this is so true!
Jamaara thank you so much!!!
ok i am about to order
here is what i will get:
1)cassia
2) amla oil( i looked at the oil that they sell in the indian market but i was not sure about all of the ingredients - should've written them down) so i think i will buy the one from hennasooq

anything else i should get since i am placing the order?


the fenugreek i have is the granules -should i get a powder? or maybe i can stick those in my vitamix and powder them?

once i get this - when it is time to treat - hopefully by then my hair will feel closer to my new normal.

i will mix:
cassia
EVOO
Castor oil
a little conditioner?
fenugreek
what do you think - does this sound good? no more experimentation for me!

 

[girlcherokee]

hey wait a minute,
i was at the indian store earlier and i can get amla for $2.00 - can i take this and infuse my own amla oil?

 

[DDTexlaxed]

Well since you already have fenugreek, use it and you'll be happy. 1/4 tsp and you're straight. LOL...it'll knock that dandruff right out.

Yup, the amla gave your natural curl more OOPMH...so if you like it, keep w/ it, if not just use it in oil form. It's good stuff, but some people might not want the curl being reinforced. If you do, use it.


WOW, I was wondering why my NG was extra curly! I mixed shikakai powder, castor oil, brahmi powder, and vatika coconut oil in my conditioner. My hair loved this mix! I also have enough to use for a long time. So this has curbed my pjism.

 

[jamaraa]

this is so true!
Jamaara thank you so much!!!
ok i am about to order
here is what i will get:
1)cassia
2) amla oil( i looked at the oil that they sell in the indian market but i was not sure about all of the ingredients - should've written them down) so i think i will buy the one from hennasooq

anything else i should get since i am placing the order?


the fenugreek i have is the granules -should i get a powder? or maybe i can stick those in my vitamix and powder them?

once i get this - when it is time to treat - hopefully by then my hair will feel closer to my new normal.

i will mix:
cassia
EVOO
Castor oil
a little conditioner?
fenugreek
what do you think - does this sound good? no more experimentation for me!

Yup, you can infuse the powders to make an oil...but you can just buy it too! The fenugreek I use is powdered form, for cooking and veda. When you say "granules", do you mean the whole herb/seeds? If you mean whole herb, just grind it into powder.

Conditioner is a nice addition because it will keep it all moist, condition, and make it much easier to rinse out. EVOO and castor oil is no problem being that you don't want color, but how 'bout coconut? LOL...it's smell better and that matters as you'll find!

Many premade amla oils (Dabur's and Henna Sooq's) have mineral oil in them. It won't kill you, but if you don't want it, just infuse your own in some coconut, sesame, or jojoba oil. If you don't mind the mineral oil, Dabur's is cheaper $$$wise.

 

[jamaraa]

Well since you already have fenugreek, use it and you'll be happy. 1/4 tsp and you're straight. LOL...it'll knock that dandruff right out.

Yup, the amla gave your natural curl more OOPMH...so if you like it, keep w/ it, if not just use it in oil form. It's good stuff, but some people might not want the curl being reinforced. If you do, use it.


WOW, I was wondering why my NG was extra curly! I mixed shikakai powder, castor oil, brahmi powder, and vatika coconut oil in my conditioner. My hair loved this mix! I also have enough to use for a long time. So this has curbed my pjism.

Did you add any amla? The other stuff doesn't affect curls from what I know. Glad you like this mix tho.

 

[girlcherokee]

thanks jamaara!
i am placing my order right now! i will let you know once i have done this!

 

[girlcherokee]

oh one more thing! how long should i leave the mixture in? should i use heat?

 

[jamaraa]

Since you're going for conditioning and not color, 30 min- 1hr is good. If you choose to use some heat, just mix it up and use the cassia after letting it sit about 30 mins or so.

 

[girlcherokee]

you mean let the cassia sit for about 30 minutes in a bowl after i mix it and before i put it in my hair if i am going to use heat?
i cant wait to get this! my hair is feeling much better now, i will sleep in the trader joes conditioner tonight and hopefully i will be back to my buttery feeling hair!
isnt there another powder that is suppose to be very moisturizing to the hair? i cant remember where i read about it now. should've written it down.

 

[jamaraa]

Yes, let it sit in a NON METAL bowl (mixed w/ NON METAL utensils) for about 30 mins-1 hr....ya know, just let the conditioning goodness come out, but not fully dye released.

The powders I named are all quite good, but you might be thinking of hibiscus leaf powder.

 

[girlcherokee]

thanks jamaara!
will do!

 

[jamaraa]

Was that the correct powder...hibiscus?

 

[girlcherokee]

no the name either started with an "m" or a "b" and it had a long name it was not as short as brahmi.

 

[jamaraa]

bhringraj or "mahabhringraj" (same thing)? I mentioned that earlier, if so.

 

[AngelDoll]

no the name either started with an "m" or a "b" and it had a long name it was not as short as brahmi.

Was it Mahabhringaraj?

Mahabhringaraj is a kind of hair oil which has been supposed to perhaps purport or to induce sound sleep. It conforms to the Ayurveda system of Indian medicine. Practitioners claim it can also treat dandruff, hair loss and greying of hair, and has an added benefit of a sound sleep that comes after the complete relaxation from the strained muscles.

Bhringraj is an ancient remedy for hair loss, premature graying, skin allergies, and devitalized skin and hair. Use Bhringraj powder in combination with amla, shikakai, and neem powders for an herbal hair rinse, or make a coconut oil infusion with these herbs to use as a conditioning oil treatment. Bhringraj powder can also be added to Ayurvedic soaps, facials, body wraps, and washbags. (quoted from FNWL website)