Are you still natural if you do a BKT?

[msa]

I understand where you're coming from, the ladies from Miss Jessies consider themselves natural too, and Dickey from Hair Rules didn't agree and neither do I because they (or one sister at least) use a silkener (?)...so the idea of what is natural is starting to become more and more questionable for some reason.

And I really don't understand that. I will never understand how one can put a chemical in their hair with the express intent of changing their texture and then still call themselves natural.

But hey, it's their head.

 

[Wanderland]

In a sentence: our hair is waaaaaaaay over politicized. Some women go natural/stay relaxed because of deep-rooted negative and positive social history. Others of us make of There have been so many threads dancing around the natural/not-natural issue it's not even funny. I recall a thread that mentioned the opinion that some women of European descent consider the natural/not-natural discussion to evolve around hair color, rather than around relaxers as we do. That just adds yet another dimension to the whole thing...

I don't think it matters to me whether a person classifies themselves as natural, not-natural, 3b, 3c, 4z, etc. What I look at is the health of their hair, how relevant it is to mine in texture, length, etc, and then I compare techniques, products, results and the like. The only reason why I could see even disclosing that you use BKT being relevant, is to help other women make their decision about whether they want to use it or not, and possibly to not mislead other women with the similar hair textures. After all, processed hair will respond to things differently than hair not touched by chemicals.

I completely agree and think of LCHF it should be disclosed just like everything else.

New terminology alert! Relax, texlax, natural, texturized, BKT'd.

So, ff I have a relaxer and I also did a BKT treatment, does that make me relaxed or BKT'd?

Princessnad, I'm not picking on you. I just find this entire thread interesting.

That's me! I would designate myself relaxed and BKT'ed, later transitioning and BKT'ed.

Personally, I was curious about that too. I don't care about what others choose to do, I just wanted to know how it affects the hair long-term. If it reverts back easily, that would be great. Since people are really starting to get into it, I'll just watch.

I think HOW the original poster posed the question is the problem. Just my opinion though. Good luck.

Gg

That's exactly what it is, and why this has become such an explosive thread. The OP didn't simply ask do naturals or whomever still consider themselves such after BKTing. It was stated "if you put anything in your hair that causes it to revert you are NOT natural" it was more of a declarative statement than a question, and people have strong opinions about statements especially when it challenges their own ideology.

 

[msa]

That's exactly what it is, and why this has become such an explosive thread. The OP didn't simply ask do naturals or whomever still consider themselves such after BKTing. It was stated "if you put anything in your hair that causes it to revert you are NOT natural" it was more of a declarative statement than a question, and people have strong opinions about statements especially when it challenges their own ideology.

I'm confused.

Her thread title was a question..."are you sill natural if you do a BKT?". A declarative statement would have been "You are not natural if you do a BKT".

She then answered the question with her opinion...

I don't think so but that's my opinion. Anything that turns nappy hair straight even when you add water to it, I think is no longer natural. I feel if you do a BKT treatment that's fine but I don't think you should call yourself natural anymore.

And then she asked what everyone else thought...

What do you think? No fights please.

She did simply ask a question...she wasn't argumentative...she didn't accuse anyone of anything...she stated her own opinion and asked for everyone else's...her opinion was a declarative statement...but she made sure to say it was her opinion.

What was the problem exactly?

ETA: I just don't think it's fair to blame the "explosiveness" of the thread on the OP.

 

[sunshinelady]

There's nothing natural about formaldehyde. If you have to wear a gas mask to have it done and your eyes still water, then, to me, it is on par and possibly worse for your body than a relaxer.

 

[Wanderland]

I'm confused.

Her thread title was a question..."are you sill natural if you do a BKT?". A declarative statement would have been "You are not natural if you do a BKT".

She then answered the question with her opinion...


And then she asked what everyone else thought...



She did simply ask a question...she wasn't argumentative...she didn't accuse anyone of anything...she stated her own opinion and asked for everyone else's...her opinion was a declarative statement...but she made sure to say it was her opinion.

What was the problem exactly?

ETA: I just don't think it's fair to blame the "explosiveness" of the thread on the OP.

I don't think being explosive is a bad thing, I appreciate the amount of response, it obviously seems to be something that people want to talk about.

Now that you have posted her response I see that you're right. But IMO I still think the way the OP posted the topic contributed to the response.
DLewis often post questions and generates a discussion. Usually after about 8 opinions, she'll give her's so that all the response aren't necessarily geared towards defending or agreeing with her opinion/bias. The OP did not.
Not to say the only way to post topics is by omitting your opinion BUT when you do give your opinion it colors the resulting responses which is exactly what happened.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

There's nothing natural about formaldehyde. If you have to wear a gas mask to have it done and your eyes still water, then, to me, it is on par and possibly worse for your body than a relaxer.

Hello....
A voice of reason.

These threads are so combative, it is ridiculous.

 

[addaboutmyhair]

I went to the eye doctor for an hour and this thread lost its mind...

 

[FtrDrO]

Scientifically speaking the answer to this question is simply yes. To be natural is to permanently alter the hair. Even though I don't know about BKT, as long as it's not permanent then one's hair can't be classified as not natural. The process is analogous to someone straightening their hair. It's a temporary alteration.

 

[Maracujá]

There's nothing natural about formaldehyde. If you have to wear a gas mask to have it done and your eyes still water, then, to me, it is on par and possibly worse for your body than a relaxer.

So this is what BKT is all about?

 

[Mystic]

Well said!! I could not agree with you more. I wish many of us would mind our own hair and leave other people's mess alone.

I think there is a fallacy in your argument. If that is the case then sabino moisture block + flat iron = straight hair that reverts with water and by your definition NOT NATURAL. If you put on BKT but didn't go through the process of straightening it with blowdryer and flat iron then you would still have curls. It's not like applying a relaxer washing it out and then you have permantly straight hair.


Relaxer in general don't revert. If that was the case then over half of LHCF wouldn't be transitioning and would just keep washing their hair until it "reverted". Relaxers permanently break chemical bonds (why it is often called "perm"). Now for some when you underprocess you realize after a couple of weeks that your bonds were not all broken but in general the bonds are permantly altered.

I don't get why people are so eager to classify someone as natural vs non-natural. Would you not do something just because the rest of the nappy police no longer see it as acceptable.
I just think you get into a slippery slope when you try to define someones naturalness.
To me hair color isn't natural. It a chemical that permantely changes the color and at times the texture of your hair. It also can't be washed out and by Laurends definition does not "revert with water" but I'm sure lots of people would get their panties in a bunch if I took away they natural card because of color.

Live and let live. Stop letting other people try to define you

 

[cuteazz1]

God didn't make you with your hair combed or brushed either...couldn't resist

AND I DON'T COMB OR BRUSH..THANK YOU(coudn't resist).....

 

[JayAnn0513]

There's nothing natural about formaldehyde. If you have to wear a gas mask to have it done and your eyes still water, then, to me, it is on par and possibly worse for your body than a relaxer.

I had bkt done 2 weeks ago and didn't need any if that. It didn't smell anyworse than hair color or a relaxer. No stronger either. If you are unrelaxed with a bkt you are as "natural" as a unrelaxed someone with henna, a rinse or permanent color.

 

[cuteazz1]

Scientifically speaking the answer to this question is simply yes. To be natural is to permanently alter the hair. Even though I don't know about BKT, as long as it's not permanent then one's hair can't be classified as not natural. The process is analogous to someone straightening their hair. It's a temporary alteration.

Merriam does not agree.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/natural

As much as we would love to we can't just go around making our own definitions for words.

Does the hair community have another definition for natural other than what's in the dictionary?....I'm being serious here....

 

[sheba1]

So if you color with a semi permanent color are you still natural? If you color with a permanent color are you still natural?

Personally, I think it's ridiculous to say I'm not natural after 14 years of being natural because I coated my hair with a semi permanent conditioning treatment that alters no bonds in my hair.

I mean you can alter the texture of your hair with excessive heat. So if you press are you natural? Ludicrous..

 

[Lucky's Mom]

SMDH....................................


This thread - is officially out of hand.

 

[sheba1]

And can someone please share with me a single bond altering chemical that you can put into your head and leave in? Literally blow dry it, followed by a flat iron and not have all your hair on the floor in the morning? Relaxer? Definitely not. Texturizer? No? Naturalaxer, maybe? Noooooo. How about Color? Nope. You can with Diva Smooth, though. Hey! If you use Diva Smooth to temporarily relax your curls, are you no longer natural?

Incidentally, who's going to tell Pinkskates that her 14+ year natural hair is no longer natural because she bkt'd her waist length hair? Just curious.

 

[msa]

Incidentally, who's going to tell Pinkskates that her 14+ year natural hair is no longer natural because she bkt'd her waist length hair? Just curious.

That's not anyone's place to do that, and I certainly hope no one would think that is appropriate.

I may have a different definition of natural, but like I said it earlier, it's not my head. If someone else BKT's and still considers themself natural, great! The only reason I feel they need to put it out there is so that other naturals don't try to follow their techniques/recommendations thinking that the person has unprocessed hair.

Define the word however you please. Just make sure to put the pertinent info out there when talking about your hair.

 

[discodumpling]

Personally, I was curious about that too. I don't care about what others choose to do, I just wanted to know how it affects the hair long-term. If it reverts back easily, that would be great. Since people are really starting to get into it, I'll just watch.

I think HOW the original poster posed the question is the problem. Just my opinion though. Good luck.

Gg

Yes. I too am waiting to see what the grow out is like. Is there a line of demarcation like other process'? When it wears off are you left with heat damaged hair? etc.

I'll just watch too

Kudos to the ladies who are bold enought to experiment.

This conversation went waaaaaay to the left.....

 

[msa]

Definitions of natural:

1) You don't wear weaves/extensions/wigs. (Everything else is fine)

2) No relaxer/texturizer/curly perm/jheri curl

3) No chemicals at all (relaxer, etc.) including dye and BKT.

4) No chemicals and no heat (pressing/flat ironing)

5) No texture altering in anyway including twistouts, braidouts, rollersets, etc.

6)Only leaving the relaxer/texturizer on for less than 10 minutes.

7) No added hair or chemicals, but texture altering and natural products are allowed.

8)No added hair, no relaxer/dye/bkt, no heat, no texture altering, no products other than water, and no combs other than your fingers.

Choose whichever one you like.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

And can someone please share with me a single bond altering chemical that you can put into your head and leave in? Literally blow dry it, followed by a flat iron and not have all your hair on the floor in the morning? Relaxer? Definitely not. Texturizer? No? Naturalaxer, maybe? Noooooo. How about Color? Nope. You can with Diva Smooth, though. Hey! If you use Diva Smooth to temporarily relax your curls, are you no longer natural?

Incidentally, who's going to tell Pinkskates that her 14+ year natural hair is no longer natural because she bkt'd her waist length hair? Just curious.

EASY, EASY there Sheba...... :mob:

I ain't gonna tell Pink NOTHIN'!

But using pinkskates as an example - I don't know if that was a wise statement on your part....... as you stated in other threads - there are MANY others that do this, right???

She JUST did this a week ago! and Hers... IS the BEST one I have seen. Everyone else's PALES in comparison.

 

[Lucky's Mom]

Definitions of natural:

1) You don't wear weaves/extensions/wigs. (Everything else is fine)

2) No relaxer/texturizer/curly perm/jheri curl

3) No chemicals at all (relaxer, etc.) including dye and BKT.

4) No chemicals and no heat (pressing/flat ironing)

5) No texture altering in anyway including twistouts, braidouts, rollersets, etc.

6)Only leaving the relaxer/texturizer on for less than 10 minutes.

7) No added hair or chemicals, but texture altering and natural products are allowed.

8)No added hair, no relaxer/dye/bkt, no heat, no texture altering, no products other than water, and no combs other than your fingers.

Choose whichever one you like.

Well, Dayum MSA, I stand corrected.....

NEWS flash SCANDAL!!!!..... SJ just found out she is NOT natural!!!!!!
The pics to prove it....

For SHAME!!!!!

Braided, phony ponied, and the Worst......FLATIRONED!!!!!

Thanks, you have been a great audience....
:kneel:

I will make sure Celie an' them find out - they are allowed in da Natural club.

 

[yodie]

I think a natural would still be considered "natural" after using BKT on their hair.

This is my opinion of how I would view my hair if I BKT'd. Someone may have a different opinion of what they might consider their hair.

I mean, really, does it matter? Some people want to be grass roots nappy and others don't. How about everyone define their own hair texture and leave it at that. Some people are so staunch natural or staunch relaxed. Be what you want to be, but don't be combative in attempts to change peoples minds of how THEY view THEIR hair.

At the end of the day we all want gorgeous, manageable, healthy hair.
OP, guess you'll have to decide this one for yourself. Please don't let any of our posts decide this for you. Label your hair what you want to call it! Heck, make up a new something to call it and I just may start using that too.

Sheba1, girl, enjoy your hair and keep it moving. Your hair looks great.

 

[Lady S]

I put BKT in the same category as the caramel treatment, semi-permanent hair rinses, shingling, roller sets, acv rinses, flat irons, curling irons, deep conditioners (my hair ain't naturally that soft and slippery), and any non-permanent method of stretching. Some of these are more stinky and time intensive then others, but unless there's damage, your hair goes back to "normal" after a wash or 4.

I'm not surprised there are strong feelings in this thread. I mean, this is a passionate hair board. We have strong feelings about SLS shampoos and hair patterns.

 

[NaturallyGraceful]

^^ what Yodie said ^^

 

[Keen]

And can someone please share with me a single bond altering chemical that you can put into your head and leave in? Literally blow dry it, followed by a flat iron and not have all your hair on the floor in the morning? Relaxer? Definitely not. Texturizer? No? Naturalaxer, maybe? Noooooo. How about Color? Nope. You can with Diva Smooth, though. Hey! If you use Diva Smooth to temporarily relax your curls, are you no longer natural?

Incidentally, who's going to tell Pinkskates that her 14+ year natural hair is no longer natural because she bkt'd her waist length hair? Just curious.

I think you should do the honor. After all you were one of the lead researchers on BKT.

 

[Casarela]

And I really don't understand that. I will never understand how one can put a chemical in their hair with the express intent of changing their texture and then still call themselves natural.

But hey, it's their head.

Because its temporary and it wears off.

 

[sheba1]

I think you should do the honor. After all you were one of the lead researchers on BKT.

Oh heck no!! LOL Someone that believes it is welcome to state it, though.

BTW, someone asked if she was a good example because her results were so beautiful; more so than others. I think she's a perfect example! Because she's obviously passionate about her long natural hair and her health. I love that there are so many in this thread that are saying she is no longer natural. It just points to the sheer craziness of the statement, to begin with!

 

[JayAnn0513]

EASY, EASY there Sheba...... :mob:

I ain't gonna tell Pink NOTHIN'!

But using pinkskates as an example - I don't know if that was a wise statement on your part....... as you stated in other threads - there are MANY others that do this, right???

She JUST did this a week ago! and Hers... IS the BEST one I have seen. Everyone else's PALES in comparison.

That's because her hair was already flawless. Bkt isn't a miracle treatment, LOL.

 

[msa]

Because its temporary and it wears off.

I was referring to the silkener that the poster I quoted mentioned. Or are silkeners temporary now?

 

[sheba1]

I was referring to the silkener that the poster I quoted mentioned. Or are silkeners temporary now?

umm... she obviously thought you were talking about BKT.

But then nothing is more temporary than wigs, so if they make you "processed" than you wouldn't have to respond to her statement, I'm sure.