virtuenow
Well-Known Member
This video gives a close up of 4b/c hair. I call my hair 4b but I used to say 4c until I decided they look to be the same. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrIw7d5Kmw
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4C Naturals, what is your routine???
- Thread starter NefertariBlu
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This video gives a close up of 4b/c hair. I call my hair 4b but I used to say 4c until I decided they look to be the same. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrIw7d5Kmw
Those pics look like what I thought 4b was. I always thought the difference between 4b's who could get some curl def. vs those who couldn't was due to other hair properties (density, fine vs coarse, etc.) or that they have a mix of 4a/b, or that they are really 4a and not 4b at all.
I'm not at all invested in a whether you choose to call your texture 4a, b, or c. I just like talking about hair
I'm not at all invested in a whether you choose to call your texture 4a, b, or c. I just like talking about hair
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
BraunSugar, my coil is small like the coffee stirrer. In most places, that "coil" is more like a 'Z' shape with sharp turns as opposed to the circular, soft turns of the typical rounded "O" coil, which is why I say mine is a 'c', if that matters.
All together, it just looks like a cotton puff. Literally. It does nothing on its own.
BraunSugar
New Member
I looked at the pics from the links and I would have said the hair was 4b. To me, it seems like the hair definitely has coils but they are not visible if you aren't looking for them, and the hair has a very high amount of shrinkage. The hair probably doesn't "clump" with products which is why it may seem like there are no coils or some women think they can't get "curl definition" with 4b or 4c hair.
virtuenow
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone has a "z" shape growing out of their scalp. Its just the way the hair looks at certain angles. See this post:
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=404026&page=20
Kurlee, what does a coil look like side view when stretched? Zigzag. Sera's hair is stretched with product. If she had a product that wasn't as heavy as that (say water) and she let her hair dry undisturbed, I can bet my bottom dollar it'd contract to form a coily shape. It's no different from this coil/spring below
I have 4B hair and while it normally doesn't appear to have a uniform pattern due to manipulation, when I let it "rest" and take up its undisturbed state, it forms coils. When you pull on those coils, they look zigzag as seen on the strands at the top of the pic below but when you release them they contract back to a spring at rest shape as seen in the strands toward the bottom of the pic:
Nonie
Well-Known Member
@virtuenow, I only use S Curl if wearing my hair out. I haven't worn my hair out since 2009. So yes, I haven't used anything (ETA: as a leave-in since it seems there are people who haven't heard of my regimen before so they thought I meant I use no products whatsoever) on my hair since then--except for one time in August 2010 when I was trying out to see if I could get used to using S Curl and Vaseline on my twists. I didn't like it. So for all the days I've been in braids and in twists (Braids from April 2009 to August 2010; and twists from August 2010 to now), I simply wash, conditioner, ACV rinse and KIM. I baggy nightly. That's it.
@NefertariBlu, I never thought my hair could be soft w/o (ETA: a leave-in) product. And actually how I came to do this was I misunderstood the information in Brenda's report. She was trying to explain how she came to consider that washing hair often might be a good thing. IIRC she noticed white folks did it and their hair didn't fall off. She realized water is moisture so whenever her hair felt dry she took that as a sign to wash. I guess I took the white folks comparison further and thought she was saying we should treat our hair as they do: wash it and let it be. She did suggest leaving some conditioner in your hair. I tried it with humectress and didn't like it so I just went bare. I should mention I was in braids so there was no combing necessary and so it was very easy to go bare. I have been baggying since jheri curl days so I'd just do that at night and then wear my braids in the day. I must say though that it wasn't until I read Cathy Howse's book and learned about DCing that I discovered that my hair was really soft and that it had coils. Up until then, my hair always felt and looked like steel wool. It was also then that I learned that internal moisture is more important that products sitting on your hair and that soft hair is moisturized hair. So because my hair has internal moisture from conditioning and DCing and then baggying to further infuse that moisture, I find my hair is never dry. It might feel dry to people who like gunk on their hair, but to me it's soft and moisturized.
I would never comb my hair bare so that's why when I'm wearing it out, I apply S Curl so it can provide the slip needed for a comb to glide through. S Curl makes my hair comb as easily as conditioner does on damp hair.
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DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
Thank you @Foxglove. Had no clue it was an issue, but I am a lhcf n00b. lol. It really is silly... no one really cares at the end of the day, right?
Was wondering, if the OP tried henna on her coils? It gives them a little more stength and backbone, I'm finding. Read in another thread that it helps loosen the coil pattern some. I haven't found that yet. I henna 1-2x a month and love it, though. That's a permanent part of my regimen
Was wondering, if the OP tried henna on her coils? It gives them a little more stength and backbone, I'm finding. Read in another thread that it helps loosen the coil pattern some. I haven't found that yet. I henna 1-2x a month and love it, though. That's a permanent part of my regimen
Nonie
Well-Known Member
BraunSugar, what you see in that link^^ being referred to as 4C is what 4B hair looks like. Here's my hair. Look at the roots:
The thing is, when you do a WNG on 4B hair, because of the size of the coils, they will not clump at the base and form coils the way they might at the top...coz the coils are not big enough to cup each other the way 4A hair might.
This is a 4B WNG, the roots don't look as defined as the ends:
This is a 4A WNG--even though Natural85 wasn't thrilled with it, you can see the definition is along the entire length coz the bigger coils cup each other with ease:
4B hair when manipulated by a comb which is a must unless you're trying to loc will look like a cloud. If that lady at the link above were to part a narrow section of her hair and wet that area and condition and finger comb, then rinse without messing up the coils by combing product through, you'd see perfect coils like these:
When 4B hair is en masse, the roots look like that girl's hair. I see the same thing in my hair below. Look at the roots:
This^^ girl's hair reminds me of my own here:
This one^^ looks just like my hair here:
This^^ girl has her hair not picked out. See I NEVER do that...coz I don't entertain tangles at all. So my hair is always combed out so you will never see those coils she has on her ends coz I don't allow my hair to do that. If she combed out her hair, she'd have it looking like this:
Yes indeed judy4all
I think folks just have a hard time grasping that there is a hair type that is so versatile it can have so many looks. They are used to other types having one look...but 4B can go from looking like a WNG on 4A (we can get that by shingling) to looking like a cloud to looking straight to looking wavy. What people call 4C or CNapp is just a manipulated form of 4B.
The only other thing I can see that confuses people is texture. Coarse strands will not behave like fine strands. They may take more stretching out to lie down...and may be harder to press down into a bun unless fully stretched, but that's got nothing to do with type. But coarse strands can hold a style longer than fine strands and they may have swang and have hanging factor better than fine strands.
Newtogrow
New Member
I keep my hair in natural braids and twists. In the winter I wear wigs. In the spring and summer I wet my braids/twists every morning and go.
I co-wash with hello hydration conditioner about 2x-3x weekly. I air dry with kinky kurly conditioner. I use shea butter and olive oil mix to rebraid or twist. I use castor oil mix with essential oils for a scalp massage.
I co-wash with hello hydration conditioner about 2x-3x weekly. I air dry with kinky kurly conditioner. I use shea butter and olive oil mix to rebraid or twist. I use castor oil mix with essential oils for a scalp massage.
miss cosmic
Well-Known Member
Krystle~Hime
Well-Known Member
The best routines i've ever had, was when I used to only do two strand twists. because it wasn't a lot of manipulation. But i have to admit that twists didn't "embrace" my face a lot.
But it was perfect because I just had to spritz/moisturize my hair, sealed the moisture, then put the twists in a bun.
Every other week I unraveled them, did an indian mask, retwist my hair.
Every other week I baggied overnight my hair while in twists.
Now that I don't want to put my hair in twists, i have to learn to style my hair. and my routine has to change too cause i have to have a night routine v_v sometimes it's hard because my hair shrinks to more than 40%. So the best for 4b/4c is to keep it stretched. when hair shrinks, it gets tangled, then there is a nightmare.
my biggest deal is to properly stretch my hair. sometimes just after unravel the braids/twists/threading, it started to shrinks. It annoys me when I want to wear updos, cause it's hard to style shrinked hair (for updos)
but I have no problem with it when I WANT to wear shrinked hairstyles(twistout done on wet hair)
like Newtogrow, i like to wear wigs by winter. or yarn twists.
my staples products are indian powders, flaxseed gel(keep hair soft and moisturized without weigh it, and without a greasy/waxy feeling.
black molasses too.
But it was perfect because I just had to spritz/moisturize my hair, sealed the moisture, then put the twists in a bun.
Every other week I unraveled them, did an indian mask, retwist my hair.
Every other week I baggied overnight my hair while in twists.
Now that I don't want to put my hair in twists, i have to learn to style my hair. and my routine has to change too cause i have to have a night routine v_v sometimes it's hard because my hair shrinks to more than 40%. So the best for 4b/4c is to keep it stretched. when hair shrinks, it gets tangled, then there is a nightmare.
my biggest deal is to properly stretch my hair. sometimes just after unravel the braids/twists/threading, it started to shrinks. It annoys me when I want to wear updos, cause it's hard to style shrinked hair (for updos)
but I have no problem with it when I WANT to wear shrinked hairstyles(twistout done on wet hair)
like Newtogrow, i like to wear wigs by winter. or yarn twists.
my staples products are indian powders, flaxseed gel(keep hair soft and moisturized without weigh it, and without a greasy/waxy feeling.
black molasses too.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
@miss cosmic, don't make me get my big stick. As long as I have been on this forum and as long as we have been in touch, I have always made it clear that it is leave-ins that I do not use. After I wash my hair with shampoo then rinse, and then condition then rinse, and then finish off with an ACV rinse, I apply no product to my hair but leave it bare. I have said this so many times and I have posted about my twice a week use of shampoo and conditioner that I honestly didn't think anyone would misunderstand. When @virtuenow mentioned S Curl, she was talking about leave-in, and I am guessing she understood OP as being surprised about me using no moisturizer.
So yeah, Nonie's hair is usually bare coz I rinse everything off and airdry with no product in my hair. I hope that cleared the confusion.
ETA: OP, I apologize for not being clear on what products I was referring to. I've gone back and tried to clarify my posts. But @miss cosmic, you're not excused; you've known me too long and we've discussed hair so much for you to be ackin' brand new on this.
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miss cosmic
Well-Known Member
Wasn't acting brand new, please don't get the big stick 
I don't understand why some people are so insistent on shouting down the existence of 4c hair. I have a section of hair that is super different from the rest of my 4b hair(and I have 3 different types of 4b on my head to compare it to). When dry it looks like my other 4b hair but it feels different, looks different when when wet, and most importantly, reacts differently to everything I do to my hair. If I have that sitting up on my head why wouldn't there be people out there with whole heads of it? Of course there is going to be variations across a hair type but if the only similarity tying two heads together is that they look the same in one specific state is that enough to force them into the same hair type? Is that all hair typing is? How our hair looks when it's dry?
As for the op's question, have you tried terressentials hair wash. For whatever reason since I've started using the lemon one keeping the patch of 4c I have moisturized has been a lot easier.
As for the op's question, have you tried terressentials hair wash. For whatever reason since I've started using the lemon one keeping the patch of 4c I have moisturized has been a lot easier.
@Nonie .. First... When my natural hair is wet... I see no curls like yours, except in my nape.. BUT most importantly, I think it all depends on what we choose to call our hair...
When I call my hair a 4B, there is a 'kinky range' of what my hair can look like... but when I call it a 4C.... People can imagine almost exactly what my hair looks like so the "4C" identifier is more appropriate to me.... It may mean "really kinky 4b" ....
You call yours a 4B, I call mine a 4C... I dont disagree with any even though our shrunken hair looks exactly the same... It all depends on what we choose to call ourselves (within acceptable range of course.. I dont expect you to call yourself a 3B.. that's cray..lol)...
At the end of the day... Regardless of hair type.. we can all help each other out... I dont worry too much about hair typing expect when it comes to styling...
When I call my hair a 4B, there is a 'kinky range' of what my hair can look like... but when I call it a 4C.... People can imagine almost exactly what my hair looks like so the "4C" identifier is more appropriate to me.... It may mean "really kinky 4b" ....
You call yours a 4B, I call mine a 4C... I dont disagree with any even though our shrunken hair looks exactly the same... It all depends on what we choose to call ourselves (within acceptable range of course.. I dont expect you to call yourself a 3B.. that's cray..lol)...
At the end of the day... Regardless of hair type.. we can all help each other out... I dont worry too much about hair typing expect when it comes to styling...
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Embyra
Well-Known Member
I hope im not too late to see I'm one of the few who actually thinks hair typing is helpful. I have 4b or 4bc fine hair that tried to do similar regimens as 3cs or 4as even 4bc coarse strands and it never worked for for 4 years. I would literally work myself into a depression thinking I hadn't found the right combo for my hair and the hair product/routine possibilities were INFINITE. I'd ask a number of questions here and would get frustrated when people would suggest methods or products I already use or did, wondering why my hair was so uncompromising. When I FINALLY decided to accept that my hair would react to certain things differently, it was easier to move along in my hair care journey. I can finally accept my hair for what it is and can STOP WISHING for it to be something it's not, which is just mind numbing ad a waste of my life.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
@judy4all, I agree folks can call their hair whatever they want to call it. I call mine nappy. But my point was, if someone posts a photo and says "this is my hair" can someone recommend a regimen I could use? Then I'd feel welcome to contribute. But if someone says she sees a lot of regimens for 4B hair but none for 4C and wants 4C regimens. I know what people call 4C is manipulated 4B hair. I am a professed 4B and everything I have ever posted has been about 4B. So unless the person asking sees my 4B hair as being like hers, then clearly she doesn't want my contribution.
So while I do know what you know, I wanted to first make sure she's open to hear of 4B regimens. And the one way to find that out is to find out if she can see the similarity between my hair and hers. So that's why I asked questions to see if I will be wasting her time and mine sharing my regimen.
So when you say we can help each other regardless, you're preaching to the choir coz that's what I do 99% of the time I'm on the forum. And it's gotten to the point where I just echo myself now coz with a tiny brain and over 19K posts, there isn't much more I could share that I haven't already shared. So while I don't mind digging up old posts to help, I do like to understand the question being asked in order to give answers that will serve useful to the OP.
ETA: When my hair is wet, it looks like yours does. I honestly don't see the difference you see. For a long time, Mwedzi didn't know her hair had coils but now she does. Kinks are coils. So if hair is kinkier, it means it's got tighter coils, but coils nonetheless. But you're not the first person to tell me you don't see coils in your hair. I remember someone pointing me to NappyMe but I found an image where her coils were so perfectly formed and her hair was bare. So I just know that when folks say there are no coils, their hair is manipulated or they are looking at it en masse. But it's OK. We don't have to agree.
Embyra, I see you're still up to no good, you troublemaker you!
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Embyra
Well-Known Member
carameldimples
New Member
The majority of my head is 4b and looks similar to Nonie, Mwedzi etc, but honey my nape...chile it does not curl, it is the saddest place on my head not because of it being 4c but because I can't retain it to save my life! I stopped relaxing that part 5-6 months before the rest of my head making me 2 years natural back there, I think I might have 2 inches of hair back there, one inch per year, just absolutely dreadful. I am trying to get a good regi for that area to get it to come along.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
@loshed, what you describe about hair FEELING different has more to do with texture than type. Type has to do with appearance. Texture has to do with feel. Coarse hair feels different from fine hair. 4C hair DOES NOT exist because I am yet to read/see anything that shows me a difference between my hair and the so-called 4C/CNapp hair.
ETA: And hair typing isn't determined by how hair looks in one state. It is how it looks in many states. Folks who know 4B hair can recognize it whether hair is wet, dry, manipulated, not manipulated, combed, not combed. Once you've been around 4B hair long enough, you know what it's capable of and can see it even when folks try to fake the funk.
ETA: And hair typing isn't determined by how hair looks in one state. It is how it looks in many states. Folks who know 4B hair can recognize it whether hair is wet, dry, manipulated, not manipulated, combed, not combed. Once you've been around 4B hair long enough, you know what it's capable of and can see it even when folks try to fake the funk.
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NefertariBlu
Well-Known Member
This is what I'm doing at the moment. I don't really like twists and they don't "frame" my face either, but it seems like the easy option for me at the moment. I'm just trying to keep my routine very simple.
Saturday, I co washed with Treseme Naturals, done a Aphogee 2 min keratin treatment, then deep conditioned with Talliah Waajid conditioner. After I rinsed it out I twisted it with Jamaican black castor oil. So far I love the results. My hair is super soft and light. I plan to leave the twists in for 2 weeks then do the whole process again.
Twists seems to be the best option as it stops me from over combing and it keeps it protected without much manipulation.
I don't get much shrinkage so that's a plus.
Now twist outs are another issues where I can't get my twists to stay without getting frizzy after a couple of hours and definition falls really quickly.
carameldimples
New Member
I feel the same way about twists. I have been doing them and trying to make myself like them(well I like them just not on me at my current length). I just took some tiny ones down that I had just done last week because I was tired of them, but I usually go a a full 2 weeks. Right now as I type I am at work with a baggy straddling my afro because it is too big with a beanie on top(I am working alone on for the holiday and I do not work in a customer facing environment so I can get away with it) I bought a phony pony Saturday so I want to try to stretch my shoulder length hair and get it into a bun and cover it with this fake textured puff. I hope it looks right and is not too much manipulation to get it back into a neat bun to cover with the puff. I did a test run with the flat twists in the front and puff in back and my kids told me they liked it.(they are brutally honest about my hair, my oldest will tell me, mommy please wear your wig to church, it looks better than your real hair, LOL but 
at the same time) But wish me luck on my change up look because I am too tired of twists at the moment.
at the same time) But wish me luck on my change up look because I am too tired of twists at the moment.
AFashionSlave
Well-Known Member
I'm a 4 & my hair is back past my bra again, so I guess my routine is goin ok. My routine is in my fotki.
NefertariBlu
Well-Known Member
lol, yeah, kids will tell you about yourself!
I just feel like the options I have are limited. I like to wear my hair out in roll and tuck styles but even in those my hair gets dry and is tangled after taking it out. I aim to wear one style a week so I don't comb or brush to much and so far it's been ok. Just need to up my game of finding a better moisturiser for spritzing during the week. I'm starting to realise that its best to keep it simple even though there are so many styles I want to try. I can't keep away from yoututbe lol.
I just feel like the options I have are limited. I like to wear my hair out in roll and tuck styles but even in those my hair gets dry and is tangled after taking it out. I aim to wear one style a week so I don't comb or brush to much and so far it's been ok. Just need to up my game of finding a better moisturiser for spritzing during the week. I'm starting to realise that its best to keep it simple even though there are so many styles I want to try. I can't keep away from yoututbe lol.
miss cosmic
Well-Known Member
Embyra said:
I was forgiven! i think.
Nah nah nah nah nah
NefertariBlu
Well-Known Member
AFashionSlave I remember you from Np. Your hair has always been gorgeous!
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