UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
In terms of products/techniques to use and manageability? I seem to see alot of posts directed just at 4bs and I was wondering if there really is a difference.
Just wondering.
Just wondering.
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4a or 4b, is there really a difference...
- Thread starter UmSumayyah
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I'm not a 4b, so maybe I shouldn't answer...but I thought, according to Mr. Walker, that 4b was the driest of all hair types and was also the Type that could grow those huge, beautiful afros like the Jacksons had back in the day. 4a, again from Mr. Walker, has more moisture than 4b and because it is "o" shaped, it can be texturized to look like a 3b, whereas the 4b is "z" shaped and won't relax into corkscrews but frizz.
but since I have no practical experience with this, I think I'll be quiet now and wait for those with first-hand experience to post.
but since I have no practical experience with this, I think I'll be quiet now and wait for those with first-hand experience to post.
NubianAngel
New Member
Keep in mind that many people who say that they have 4b hair actually have 4a hair without the clumping in their coils. True 4b hair is supposedly "Z" shaped without the S or O pattern. So, in the sense that most people actually use the two interchagebly (from my observations) i'd assume that there wouldn't be a big difference.
i never did get the 4b typing. i understand 4a is teeny tiny curls/corkscrews but what in the heck is a z pattern?? i have yet to see a z pattern on someone. and why do most 4a peeps say they're 3c too?? i also assumed 3c was loose big curls like ayeshia's. am i right?? and one more question, what would teeny tiny waves be considered??thats what i have but i dont know what type they'd be.
Ayeshia
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Nyambura said:
I'm not a 4b, so maybe I shouldn't answer...but I thought, according to Mr. Walker, that 4b was the driest of all hair types and was also the Type that could grow those huge, beautiful afros like the Jacksons had back in the day. 4a, again from Mr. Walker, has more moisture than 4b and because it is "o" shaped, it can be texturized to look like a 3b, whereas the 4b is "z" shaped and won't relax into corkscrews but frizz.
but since I have no practical experience with this, I think I'll be quiet now and wait for those with first-hand experience to post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im a a type 3c mainly with some 4 sections
But I am capable growing a huge fro too. If my hair was picked out, It looks more in the 4 category
vs if I do a shake n' go and leave my hair curled. I noticed that the 4 sections have less of a curl pattern and are more frizzy than the rest of my head.
I dont know the difference though
Nyambura said:
I'm not a 4b, so maybe I shouldn't answer...but I thought, according to Mr. Walker, that 4b was the driest of all hair types and was also the Type that could grow those huge, beautiful afros like the Jacksons had back in the day. 4a, again from Mr. Walker, has more moisture than 4b and because it is "o" shaped, it can be texturized to look like a 3b, whereas the 4b is "z" shaped and won't relax into corkscrews but frizz.
but since I have no practical experience with this, I think I'll be quiet now and wait for those with first-hand experience to post.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im a a type 3c mainly with some 4 sections
vs if I do a shake n' go and leave my hair curled. I noticed that the 4 sections have less of a curl pattern and are more frizzy than the rest of my head. I dont know the difference though
Isis
New Member
I see and feel a difference on my head. I have a small area on the crown of my head that I call 4a because it grows out in a looser pattern (very coily) than the rest of my hair, which grows out kinky. I have to be more careful when relaxing that 4a part too and I time it differently. All in my immediate family have 4b hair with a little bit of 4a. This is probably why I didn't grow up with any "good hair" or "bad hair" mindsets.
In terms of what products to use, I use products good for 4a and 4b types but more products focused on moisture.
In terms of what products to use, I use products good for 4a and 4b types but more products focused on moisture.
Ayeshia
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah Ive never seen any one with natural crimps on their hair...That would be cool though
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah Ive never seen any one with natural crimps on their hair...That would be cool though
NubianAngel
New Member
I've heard the opposite, that 4a has the "spring" pattern going, so it shrinks more, while 4b is fluffier
In the end thats why alot of people don't put too much stock in hair typing and go by pictures, etc.
In the end thats why alot of people don't put too much stock in hair typing and go by pictures, etc.
NubianAngel
New Member
My hair used to have more of a crimp pattern to it, but after a while it started to be a more uniform o/s pattern.
lsubabiedee
New Member
oh lord...hair typing confuses me soooo much!
Like what exactly is 3c? Am i 4a?
In a way, I dont really care except for reference purposes
Like what exactly is 3c? Am i 4a?
In a way, I dont really care except for reference purposes
[ QUOTE ]
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense to me. if thats the case then i'm def a 4a/4b. now what is 3c????arent 3c and 4a the same.
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense to me. if thats the case then i'm def a 4a/4b. now what is 3c????arent 3c and 4a the same.
EbonyF
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
ayeshia said:
maybe 4b has more shrinkage and has a more kinky patten than 4a?
[/ QUOTE ]
4a has O's or an S shape to it. While 4b has a Z, or an I type of pattern.
Hence, 4a actually shrinks more (think of a spring), and from my experience, my hair was harder to relax when I use to relax.
ayeshia said:
maybe 4b has more shrinkage and has a more kinky patten than 4a?
[/ QUOTE ]
4a has O's or an S shape to it. While 4b has a Z, or an I type of pattern.
Hence, 4a actually shrinks more (think of a spring), and from my experience, my hair was harder to relax when I use to relax.
[ QUOTE ]
bree said:
[ QUOTE ]
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense to me. if thats the case then i'm def a 4a/4b. now what is 3c????arent 3c and 4a the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
I kind of thought they were similar too.
bree said:
[ QUOTE ]
syoulee1 said:
I have heard someone explain it like this...
4a= curly napps
4b= wavy napps
that has probably confused everyone even more.
and I also have yet to see someone with a "z" pattern to their hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
makes sense to me. if thats the case then i'm def a 4a/4b. now what is 3c????arent 3c and 4a the same.
[/ QUOTE ]
I kind of thought they were similar too.
lsubabiedee
New Member
okay...this is making sense to me now...is that why natural 4b ladies seem to be able to show off more length than 4a's?
bettydavis
New Member
I wonder this too Isubabiedee...I am a 4a and have always had a hard time gaining length. I think in my case it's because my hair is fine and breaks easily. Maybe 4b hair is stronger??
DigitalRain
Well-Known Member
I have never seen anyone with z patterned new growth. That just sounds strange to me. I think 4bs just don't have a definite curl pattern, the coils are tightly packed and very irregular so its impossible to texturize and get a nice wavy look. My hair is mainly 4b and I have a 4a patch at my crown. Texturizing to get a curly look is not an option for me, lol.
UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
Well, I see it like this:
4a--tiny little coils packed together, like watch spring size.
4b--no curls, just random Zs and sharp little turns
3a---big, loose curls. soda can to hair spray bottle in diameter
3b--medium curls. Smaller than spray bottle to Sharpie marker in diameter
3c--small curls, more like the diameter of a pen or a little smaller.
To me the difference between the 4a and 3c, besides 3s having a slightly larger curl, is that their hair will separate into little ringlets were 4a hair will not. In other words, you don't have to get up close to see that the hair spirals.
ANY consistent wave pattern to me, is a 2. My mom has what I would call 2c hair (even though that isn't one of Andre's types). Tiny little waves from root to tip. This type of hair can get quite fluffy and big but would be hard to style into an afro.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the difference in the way 4a and 4b LOOKs, but is there a difference in the products needed? We've noticed certain trends with relaxers (for instance, that Motions didn't work on most of our 4 ladies but was great for the 3s), and I'm wondering does the same hold true between 4a and 4b types. Do the same conditioners not generally work? Do we need different moisturizers? Does one type retain length more easily than the others, or show length more easily (I think one of you addressed this).
That's what I wanted to know.
Because most people may direct a post at 4as and 4bs, while others ask for responses from 4bs only. I thought perhaps they had experienced a significant difference in what it takes to care for 4b versus 4a hair.
4a--tiny little coils packed together, like watch spring size.
4b--no curls, just random Zs and sharp little turns
3a---big, loose curls. soda can to hair spray bottle in diameter
3b--medium curls. Smaller than spray bottle to Sharpie marker in diameter
3c--small curls, more like the diameter of a pen or a little smaller.
To me the difference between the 4a and 3c, besides 3s having a slightly larger curl, is that their hair will separate into little ringlets were 4a hair will not. In other words, you don't have to get up close to see that the hair spirals.
ANY consistent wave pattern to me, is a 2. My mom has what I would call 2c hair (even though that isn't one of Andre's types). Tiny little waves from root to tip. This type of hair can get quite fluffy and big but would be hard to style into an afro.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the difference in the way 4a and 4b LOOKs, but is there a difference in the products needed? We've noticed certain trends with relaxers (for instance, that Motions didn't work on most of our 4 ladies but was great for the 3s), and I'm wondering does the same hold true between 4a and 4b types. Do the same conditioners not generally work? Do we need different moisturizers? Does one type retain length more easily than the others, or show length more easily (I think one of you addressed this).
That's what I wanted to know.
Because most people may direct a post at 4as and 4bs, while others ask for responses from 4bs only. I thought perhaps they had experienced a significant difference in what it takes to care for 4b versus 4a hair.
from what i can see, 4b hair grows downwards as it gains some length- it looks like dull, frizzy straight hair, whereas 4a hair tends to look like watch springs, and grows outwards (east west) instead of downwards.
in terms of product use... from what i gather 4b hair is stronger than 4a hair, because there isn't as much bends (0's) in the shaft.
both though, tend to be dry, and do need moisture to thrive.
ana
in terms of product use... from what i gather 4b hair is stronger than 4a hair, because there isn't as much bends (0's) in the shaft.
both though, tend to be dry, and do need moisture to thrive.
ana
sengschick
The Bun Master
I think similar products could be used, but my hair can't take heavy grease or oils, it makes the strand heavy and then it breaks. Dirt does this as well to the stands. As others have said, 4a seems to be a bit finer and more vulnerable. If I'm shampooed or conditioned w/anything too heavy (like Cream of Nature or Dudley products) it makes my hair oily & stringy.
I type my hair as 3c/4a, b/c of the cottony or spongy nature of my hair. It's more kinky than nappy, and it's super soft, very dense, holds water like a sponge and shrinks like it has springs! One of my stylists refers to it as "soft" hair.
I type my hair as 3c/4a, b/c of the cottony or spongy nature of my hair. It's more kinky than nappy, and it's super soft, very dense, holds water like a sponge and shrinks like it has springs! One of my stylists refers to it as "soft" hair.
Ipanema
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
ananas said:
from what i can see, 4b hair grows downwards as it gains some length- it looks like dull, frizzy straight hair, whereas 4a hair tends to look like watch springs, and grows outwards (east west) instead of downwards.
in terms of product use... from what i gather 4b hair is stronger than 4a hair, because there isn't as much bends (0's) in the shaft.
both though, tend to be dry, and do need moisture to thrive.
[/ QUOTE ]
ITA with this post.
ananas said:
from what i can see, 4b hair grows downwards as it gains some length- it looks like dull, frizzy straight hair, whereas 4a hair tends to look like watch springs, and grows outwards (east west) instead of downwards.
in terms of product use... from what i gather 4b hair is stronger than 4a hair, because there isn't as much bends (0's) in the shaft.
both though, tend to be dry, and do need moisture to thrive.
[/ QUOTE ]
ITA with this post.
skegeesmb
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
UmSumayyah said:
Well, I see it like this:
4a--tiny little coils packed together, like watch spring size.
4b--no curls, just random Zs and sharp little turns
3a---big, loose curls. soda can to hair spray bottle in diameter
3b--medium curls. Smaller than spray bottle to Sharpie marker in diameter
3c--small curls, more like the diameter of a pen or a little smaller.
To me the difference between the 4a and 3c, besides 3s having a slightly larger curl, is that their hair will separate into little ringlets were 4a hair will not. In other words, you don't have to get up close to see that the hair spirals.
ANY consistent wave pattern to me, is a 2. My mom has what I would call 2c hair (even though that isn't one of Andre's types). Tiny little waves from root to tip. This type of hair can get quite fluffy and big but would be hard to style into an afro.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the difference in the way 4a and 4b LOOKs, but is there a difference in the products needed? We've noticed certain trends with relaxers (for instance, that Motions didn't work on most of our 4 ladies but was great for the 3s), and I'm wondering does the same hold true between 4a and 4b types. Do the same conditioners not generally work? Do we need different moisturizers? Does one type retain length more easily than the others, or show length more easily (I think one of you addressed this).
That's what I wanted to know.
Because most people may direct a post at 4as and 4bs, while others ask for responses from 4bs only. I thought perhaps they had experienced a significant difference in what it takes to care for 4b versus 4a hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
ITA here.
UmSumayyah said:
Well, I see it like this:
4a--tiny little coils packed together, like watch spring size.
4b--no curls, just random Zs and sharp little turns
3a---big, loose curls. soda can to hair spray bottle in diameter
3b--medium curls. Smaller than spray bottle to Sharpie marker in diameter
3c--small curls, more like the diameter of a pen or a little smaller.
To me the difference between the 4a and 3c, besides 3s having a slightly larger curl, is that their hair will separate into little ringlets were 4a hair will not. In other words, you don't have to get up close to see that the hair spirals.
ANY consistent wave pattern to me, is a 2. My mom has what I would call 2c hair (even though that isn't one of Andre's types). Tiny little waves from root to tip. This type of hair can get quite fluffy and big but would be hard to style into an afro.
Anyway, my question wasn't about the difference in the way 4a and 4b LOOKs, but is there a difference in the products needed? We've noticed certain trends with relaxers (for instance, that Motions didn't work on most of our 4 ladies but was great for the 3s), and I'm wondering does the same hold true between 4a and 4b types. Do the same conditioners not generally work? Do we need different moisturizers? Does one type retain length more easily than the others, or show length more easily (I think one of you addressed this).
That's what I wanted to know.
Because most people may direct a post at 4as and 4bs, while others ask for responses from 4bs only. I thought perhaps they had experienced a significant difference in what it takes to care for 4b versus 4a hair.
[/ QUOTE ]
ITA here.
