What makes hair silky?

[dany06]

My natural hair is weird. If I am to grab my hair between my fingers and glide my fingers down in a smoothing motion then my hair feels silky. In fact, while I pull it straight it looks silky and has lots of gloss. When I release my hair it goes back to dull looking cotton fluff. So when people look at my natural hair they think that its dry and hard. Once they touch it in an attempt to style they are surprised by how it looks once the strands are elongated. This is also the reason why I was fooled into thinking I had 3c hair when I first transitioning. I have 4a hair. Its very dense but the strands are fine. The only thing that will keep my hair feeling and looking silky when my hair is in a natural state is using curl activator gel on dry hair.

 

[locabouthair]

Hair products do help, but like FlowerHair mentioned, nothing can make coarse hair silky. As previously mentioned in this thread, one advantage of having coarse hair is that it isn't as prone to breakage as fine hair.

My coarse hair causes my hair to be very dry and prone to breaking off because of the dryness. Im ok with the fact that my hair will never feel silky. It can be smooth/soft at times. But with my coarse strands it will always be prone to that rough feeling, plus I'm textlaxed so.

 

[jupitermoon]

My coarse hair causes my hair to be very dry and prone to breaking off because of the dryness. Im ok with the fact that my hair will never feel silky. It can be smooth/soft at times. But with my coarse strands it will always be prone to that rough feeling, plus I'm textlaxed so.

You're right that coarse hair is more prone to dryness which can lead to breakage. I think chemicals and even gels can make this worse. My hair has never tolerated relaxers and dyes very well due to the added dryness, but I find that my natural hair is stronger and I don't have a problem with dryness either. I dunno... I think healthy well moisturized coarse hair is stronger than fine hair because the diameter of the strand is thicker.

ETA: When I was relaxed and dyed, my hair had a hard and rough feeling too. It was harder to keep moisturized which lead to dryness and breakage.

 

[Neith]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

 

[jupitermoon]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

LOL.

I guess my hair is more medium then or not overly coarse, because my hair doesn't take chemicals and heat well at all. Or I'm one of the unusually coarse that can't tolerate chemicals. Chemicals, equal dryness and breakage for me.

 

[Irresistible]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

yeah my hair wouldnt be considered coarse, so I guess it's fine

but it's not prone to breakage whatsoever. Well not with all I do anyway, I never have any breakage

 

[wavezncurlz]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

Agree with bolded. I think that is why I never got past midback (except accidently when I was pregnant and did NOTHING to my hair). My hair breaks at a certain point and splits. With the extra care I've given it now, it's handling length much better.

 

[Junebug D]

There's so many different variables in what causes hair to look and behave the way it does. It's rare that you do ever find true "hair twins", espeically on Black hair which is probably the most diverse and mixed-up as far as all the different variables go. Just from reading here, it's clear that people with the same hair type or hair thickness can't usually use the same products with the same results. It's all really confusing.

I do really just wish someone could compile a huge photographic listing of every kind of hair with every kind of property, that would help SO many of us.

Me = rough/coarse strands, very low density, cotton texture, highly coiled "4b" pattern, low shine, high frizz, bad reaction to Porosity Control, don't waste money on Lustrasilk because it won't help... etc.

 

[Ramya]

yeah my hair wouldnt be considered coarse, so I guess it's fine

but it's not prone to breakage whatsoever. Well not with all I do anyway, I never have any breakage

I have fine hair too and it's really strong but it's not silky at all. My hair has a natural sheen to it coily and when straightened it looks shiny even without product but it's still obviously cottony well more like cashmere vs. silky. There is no product, no amount of flatironing, no type of relaxer/chemical that will ever make my hair look silky. It just looks fine. I think silkiness is very rare and there are tons of levels between silk and coarse.

 

[gymfreak336]

There's so many different variables in what causes hair to look and behave the way it does. It's rare that you do ever find true "hair twins", espeically on Black hair which is probably the most diverse and mixed-up as far as all the different variables go. Just from reading here, it's clear that people with the same hair type or hair thickness can't usually use the same products with the same results. It's all really confusing.

I do really just wish someone could compile a huge photographic listing of every kind of hair with every kind of property, that would help SO many of us.

Me = rough/coarse strands, very low density, cotton texture, highly coiled "4b" pattern, low shine, high frizz, bad reaction to Porosity Control, don't waste money on Lustrasilk because it won't help... etc.

It would be very interesting to see that done.

Characteristics like silky, wiry, spongy, coarse etc.. are by products of some sort of element of hair construction. I would love to be a part of a research team that could break down on a more scientific level just were these characteristics come from and what physical properties they bring along with it. This would better expand upon hair trends and patterns beyond hair type. It could help explain why you can have two people with the same type of hair in terms of curl pattern and overall look but not have the same issues as the other. It could help make developing products more efficient at tackling certain problems.

 

[gymfreak336]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

I agree with you that the regular medium folks have it easier overall and if you notice, products targeted to either extreme are all about trying to even the playing field to get us closer to the med ground.

Fine hair products are all about consistent fortification via low pH, proteins, and other flexible strengthening agents because the hair needs extra support to resist breakage, split ends, and retain just enough moisture not to over load the hair.

Coarse hair products tend to be very emollient and occlusive to help wrap the strand with moisture and keep it in. The emollients help give the strand more flexibility and provide more softness to counteract the natural tendency for it to feel more rough.

 

[wavezncurlz]

It would be very interesting to see that done.

Characteristics like silky, wiry, spongy, coarse etc.. are by products of some sort of element of hair construction. I would love to be a part of a research team that could break down on a more scientific level just were these characteristics come from and what physical properties they bring along with it. This would better expand upon hair trends and patterns beyond hair type. It could help explain why you can have two people with the same type of hair in terms of curl pattern and overall look but not have the same issues as the other. It could help make developing products more efficient at tackling certain problems.

I'm a researcher. I'd love to see who would fund this project.
I would like to see how these things are looked at across the racial spectrum too. I see clear girls with hair that looks like mine but I KNOW we cannot use the same products.

 

[Junebug D]

I'm a researcher. I'd love to see who would fund this project.
I would like to see how these things are looked at across the racial spectrum too. I see clear girls with hair that looks like mine but I KNOW we cannot use the same products.

Could it be pitched to L'Oreal and the other big ones? Like present it as an unprecedented opportunity to develop, design & market a whole new wave of hair care products, especially for (but certainly not limited to!) the booming minority population that spends xxx more on hair care and are rapidly becoming the new face of the nation? Or something like that?

 

[gymfreak336]

I'm a researcher. I'd love to see who would fund this project.
I would like to see how these things are looked at across the racial spectrum too. I see clear girls with hair that looks like mine but I KNOW we cannot use the same products.

Mizani's website has this curl matrix that I believe is coming from loreals research center on ethnic hair and skin so I know people are beginning to try more hair type specific care but I think it would be much more productive if they went a little more in depth. It would be cool if loreal would fund it because I know they have the money but I would like it if there were some find of cosmetic chemist firm who would do it and then sell the info.

It would be interesting to know what white girls with hair like yours use. You might not use the same products but you could very well be using the same type of product. I know with me, the girls I know that I have a lot in common with in other ethnic groups tend to be the girls with tons of curly fine hair that tangles easily...at least for my relaxed hair. If I went natural I am sure it would be a different story.

 

[Victorian]

Fine hair products are all about consistent fortification via low pH, proteins, and other flexible strengthening agents because the hair needs extra support to resist breakage, split ends, and retain just enough moisture not to over load the hair.

^^^^^ This! I have never experienced protein overload in my life. I use protein conditioner every week and my hair loves it. On the other hand, I have to be very careful about how often and how long I use more intense moisturizing products, because my hair will become overconditioned in a heartbeat.
Interesting...:scratchch

I don't know if this would be related at all, but my hair prefers cones to oils, although it can handle light stuff like jojoba and coconut oil in small amounts for wash n gos. Does anyone else have an oil/cone dichotomy?

 

[Smiley79]

Great thread OP.

 

[gymfreak336]

^^^^^ This! I have never experienced protein overload in my life. I use protein conditioner every week and my hair loves it. On the other hand, I have to be very careful about how often and how long I use more intense moisturizing products, because my hair will become overconditioned in a heartbeat.
Interesting...:scratchch

I don't know if this would be related at all, but my hair prefers cones to oils, although it can handle light stuff like jojoba and coconut oil in small amounts for wash n gos. Does anyone else have an oil/cone dichotomy?

I have fine hair too and I am just now finding oils my hair likes. I prefer light cone products too.

Ditto on conditioning as well. My hair prefers fortifying moisturize products for basic use.

 

[lovenharmony]

Interesting theories everyone! There are so many variables, so I wouldn't even know how to categorize what silky hair is.

 

[BlackMasterPiece]

I wanted to add another person for reference on what a 4a Silky looks like: The mom on the YouTube channel FamilyGoingNatural here's a HILARIOUS video where she complains about the high prices of Natural Hair Care products Natural Hair Product RANT <----easily one of the most hilarious video's I've ever seen on YouTube hands down it was so funny I started a thread on the hilarity of it a while back

When you watch the video, there are several times where she just grabs a part of her hair, and it just immediately lays down flat and smooth with a very glossy look with no effort and just the swipe of her hand back when I saw this the 1st time I was like Wowwww look at those tiny coils and the way they lay down! She's def a 4a silky. Also just FYI since this video she's learned the best products and techniques for her and her children and is no longer frustrated

Here's another vid where you can see how easy it is for her to slick her hair back into a ponytail and the high gloss it has naturally. My coarse thick 4a coils could never EVER do this in its natural state also my hair doesn't have a bit of shine to it unless its straightened.

To me, Robotxcore's Professor's Hair will always be the absolute PERFECT example of what a 4a silky looks and behaves like.......again, to me. She posted pics of her hair from the front and side and the back and you can see her coil size is consistent throughout.

This thread is awesome! Now when I bring up 4a silky's I'll reference robotxcore's professor, Black Cardinal, and the mom on the youtube channel familygoingnatural

 

[SheenaVee]

Taradyan has silky hair, I think.

But if we're saying that hair that can be slicked down easily and shines when it does is silky, then mine is considered silky too. But I would describe my hair as more 'thready' as defined by the LOIS system, because without product it doesn't shine.

I also think fine hair strands are silkier than coarse strands.

 

[Ramya]

Taradyan has silky hair, I think.

But if we're saying that hair that can be slicked down easily and shines when it does is silky, then mine is considered silky too. But I would describe my hair as more 'thready' as defined by the LOIS system, because without product it doesn't shine.

I also think fine hair strands are silkier than coarse strands.

I agree, my hair is NOT silky and it slicks easily. I think that has more to do with me having fine hair as opposed to it being silky. I don't use brushes to slick my hair or scarves, just my hands.

 

[SheenaVee]

^^^^Me too. I agree!

 

[wavezncurlz]

Taradyan has silky hair, I think.

I totally agree and I told her when she first BCd that her hair really reminded me of mine. As it grows, it continues to look similar.

 

[werenumber2]

I agree, my hair is NOT silky and it slicks easily. I think that has more to do with me having fine hair as opposed to it being silky. I don't use brushes to slick my hair or scarves, just my hands.

This is me. I've never really considered my hair to be silky but it is fine and I can slick it down into a bun with ease, even with just a soft-hold cream or gel. I just don't know.

 

[PerplexingComplex]

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about fine hair as in strand diameter or fine hair as in density?

 

[SheenaVee]

Strand diameter I think. Well I was anyway.

 

[jamaraa]

I think that both extremes have their difficulties.

Fine hair tends to be smooth, shiny and soft, but a little less strong and prone to breakage.

Coarse hair tends to be rough, but can withstand chemicals and heat better usually.

However, it's a bit "too strong"... it lacks the flexibility that less coarse textures have... which also makes it easy for it to break off. The same way that your hair can get hard and on the brittle side after a protein treatment. Over manipulation will make my hair snap right off because it's rigid.

:sigh: I think that people who truly have it the easiest are people with normal hair diameter. lol

My experience is that HEALTHY fine strands are less prone to breakge than coarser hair that's equally healthy. Why? Well fine hair is less prone to tangling. Most breakage on hair that's basically healthy (not chemically overprocessed), from my observation, involves tangling and detangling.

 

[jamaraa]

I'm confused. Are you guys talking about fine hair as in strand diameter or fine hair as in density?

Both...the diameter of the strand and the density of the hair. Fine strands can be dense, but ususally aren't as dense as coarser strands.

Lots of times I think people confuse how dense hair LOOKS based on how compact it is (ie shrinkage) and would assume that the compact hair is "thicker" than straight hair. That may be completely untrue. To give a visiual....stand a Chinese person next to a person of African descent w/ a BAA. They both may have the same length, but chances are the Chinese person has denser strands/overall hair than the BAA even tho the hair is hanging straight.

 

[jamaraa]

I can't find the post, but I recall someone mentioning research stating that people of African descent have 2 cuticle layers as opposed to 4-5 found in other groups. Color me skeptical about this. Given the immense genetic diversity of Africa itself (human, plant, animal) and the genetic diversity of the diaspora, I'm wondering what specific group/region such research was done that somehow represent an entire continent? That would be like saying Germans alone are representative of Euro genetic markers. Who'd buy THAT one?

This is kind of "country of Africa" thinking bugs me (Hi Nonie ). Given the size of the continent and mega genetic diversity, how can one really conclude that Africans/the diaspora have 2 cuticles ONLY? Nada.

 

[gymfreak336]

We can't have 2 cuticle layers. Cuticle layers average between 5 and 13...5 being the more fine hair, 13 being the more coarse hair.