What makes hair silky?

[LadyRaider]

I'm not sure Nonie, but this "might" explain the 4b Silky business that came up earlier in another thread that confused me.

If someone had 4b hair -coarse but THIN hair
And another person had 4b hair - coarse but THICK hair

One might look silkier than the other just based on the width of each hair? There really isn't a true difference in coarse vs. silky... the difference is in strand size.

(This might be what you've been saying and I'm just getting it.)

 

[anon123]

That's what my hair does. It absorbs the water before getting wet. The outside of the sponge doesn't get wet until it's reached complete absorption.

I must have a mental block because I still don't get it. The part of the sponge that has absorbed the water is wet. The part that hasn't yet absorbed the water is not wet. I can only imagine some of the hair absorbing the water and that hair being wet, whereas some other hair might not have yet absorbed and might not be wet yet. I don't get it.

 

[Nonie]

I'm not sure Nonie, but this "might" explain the 4b Silky business that came up earlier in another thread that confused me.

If someone had 4b hair -coarse but THIN hair
And another person had 4b hair - coarse but THICK hair

One might look silkier than the other just based on the width of each hair? There really isn't a true difference in coarse vs. silky... the difference is in strand size.

(This might be what you've been saying and I'm just getting it.)

You are right, I was misusing the word "coarse" as I stated in my previous post.

Coarse means rough. I was using it to mean thick hence my apology.

Both thick hair and thin hair can be smooth or coarse (rough). If the hair cuticle is lying flat, the hair will feel smoother than if the cuticle scales are raised.

 

[Nonie]

I must have a mental block because I still don't get it. The part of the sponge that has absorbed the water is wet. The part that hasn't yet absorbed the water is not wet. I can only imagine some of the hair absorbing the water and that hair being wet, whereas some other hair might not have yet absorbed and might not be wet yet. I don't get it.

I am thinking maybe spongy means porous hair.

Think of hair that you apply a product to and it immediately feels greasy and one that you have to apply many layers of product before the hair actually feels like it has product on it.

So maybe spongy hair is so thirsty that instead of the hair feeling wet when you pour water in it, it soaks up that water into the strands so the outside still feels and looks dry. And it's only when it's been properly drenched that it finally looks wet. Maybe?

 

[Neith]

The denman makes my hair look and feel silkier...

Shingled coil...

Not singled in this pic

:scratchch

I can't figure it out.

 

[Carrie A]

Very interesting question. I have no idea but I had two cats, both with straight hair, but one had a silky texture with lots of sheen (named after mink fur) while the other had a fluffy cotton ball texture (my fuzzy wuzzy pumpkin). There must have been some intrinsic characteristics to the hair to explain the difference. That was sort of OT but..........

 

[Sugarhoney]

Ok, this is my theory:

I think silky hair has to do with the natural sulfur levels within the body. It can be genetic or due to supplements. Ex: When I take MSM (sulfur based) my hair grows out of my head softer & silkier. When I don't take it for a while, it grows out coarser with less sheen.

I also was told by a medical practioner that certain people have more sulfur in their bodies genetically (caucasians, or people with straighter hair, etc).

 

[Nonie]

Ok, this is my theory:

I think silky hair has to do with the natural sulfur levels within the body. It can be genetic or due to supplements. Ex: When I take MSM (sulfur based) my hair grows out of my head softer & silkier. When I don't take it for a while, it grows out coarser with less sheen.

I also was told by a medical practioner that certain people have more sulfur in their bodies genetically (caucasians, or people with straighter hair, etc).

I've heard this happen to people but it doesn't happen to me no matter how much MSM I take. Methinks I have all the sulfur my body/hair can take. And what's weird is, I've read the opposite that it is having a higher sulfur content that makes one hair curlier than the other, which is why I've never understood the effect of silkier hair that people notice. I need to research that. :scratchch

Why is your hair curly and why are there different types of curls?

Hair curls based on the chemical bonds it has. The protein keratin makes up the hair shaft and it is made of amino acids. Long chains of amino acids form a helical structure. These structures will wrap around each other forming the hair shaft. One of the amino acids within the chains is called cysteine, which carries a sulphur group. These groups create sulphur bonds between the chains, causing bending of the protein. And the more sulphur bonds a hair shaft has, the more bending there will be and the more curly it is.

http://www.blendedbeauty.com/types.html

Question: What makes curly hair curly?
john h hersey

Answer:
Hair is made of protein (just like pretty much everything else in
your body). Now in these proteins are sulfur atoms (called sulfides).
When two sulfur atoms come together, they form what's called a
disulfide bond. If two sulfur atoms are far apart in the same protein,
and they come together to form that bond, the protein is going to bend
accordingly. The more disulfide bonds, the curlier the hair. Naturally
curly hair has a lot of disulfide bonds. When people with straight hair
get a 'perm' they are chemically forcing the making of disulfide bonds.
These bonds are pretty strong too...very difficult to break. 'Perm' is
short for 'permanent wave' though a 'perm' isn't really permanent. As the
new hair grows in, it will be straight and only the ends curly. And it's
very difficult to straighten out naturally curly hair.
-Joe Schultz

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99328.htm

Perhaps when hair has enough sulfur/sulphur it just takes on the most natural state? What's more, the curl is from sulphur bonds occuring from atoms that are a distance apart. Could it be that more sulphur causes the hair to have enough sulfur/sulphur (sorry the PH spelling is the one I grew up using so I apologizing for switching back and forth) so that bonds don't have to be formed between distant atoms, hence less bending?

Sulfur is an important body component. It is essential to life, and a major component of all living things. It is an element that is quite often overlooked as a nutrient, but yet is an important ingredient in several of the very critical amino acids that make up the proteins contained in our muscles, enzymes and other constituents in our body. Sulfur is in the proteins which constitute basic hair, nails and skin. The sulfur-containing structural protein keratin is found throughout the body, from the epidermis to the hair follicle to the bronchial epithelium of the lungs to the intestinal mucosa. Sulfur-bearing amino acids are key components of many functional proteins and enzymes, and important determinants in the "tertiary" three-dimensional structures, many of which are held in place by permanent disulfide (-S-S-) linkages-for example, in maintaining the hair in its natural inclination toward straight or curly.

http://www.riverflow.com/msm/special/index.html

 

[Nonie]

Very interesting question. I have no idea but I had two cats, both with straight hair, but one had a silky texture with lots of sheen (named after mink fur) while the other had a fluffy cotton ball texture (my fuzzy wuzzy pumpkin). There must have been some intrinsic characteristics to the hair to explain the difference. That was sort of OT but..........

Carrie, you're obviously a cat lady. I immediately thought about my cats too when I saw this discussion. One of mine has a silky, soft, fluid shiny coat while his twin brother has a fluffy, soft, more cottony coat.

 

[anon123]

The denman makes my hair look and feel silkier...

Shingled coil...

:scratchch

I can't figure it out.

Maybe it's because the brush aligns the hairs so it feels smoother? btw, your coil is so thick. it's like, even though the diameter is small, it looks so fat. any coil I get looks anemic compared to that.

Very interesting question. I have no idea but I had two cats, both with straight hair, but one had a silky texture with lots of sheen (named after mink fur) while the other had a fluffy cotton ball texture (my fuzzy wuzzy pumpkin). There must have been some intrinsic characteristics to the hair to explain the difference. That was sort of OT but..........

Same with the two bunnies I posted up thread. The big one's fur is softer and a bit more silky, but the smaller one had fur that felt rougher. They were both type 1.

 

[Neith]

Maybe it's because the brush aligns the hairs so it feels smoother? btw, your coil is so thick. it's like, even though the diameter is small, it looks so fat. any coil I get looks anemic compared to that.

Yeah it does smooth the hair... but even with the denman my hair isn't truly silky, it's just silkier than it would be without it. Compared to other people, my hair feels hard no matter what.

I'm beginning to think that it's more than one factor which makes someone's hair silky or coarse

How tight and smoothed down the cuticles are, how fine/coarse the hair is, the hair texture and curl pattern, the size and shape of the follicles... all of that and probably more ties in together and makes an end result.

 

[jamaraa]

Ok, this is my theory:

I think silky hair has to do with the natural sulfur levels within the body. It can be genetic or due to supplements. Ex: When I take MSM (sulfur based) my hair grows out of my head softer & silkier. When I don't take it for a while, it grows out coarser with less sheen.

I also was told by a medical practioner that certain people have more sulfur in their bodies genetically (caucasians, or people with straighter hair, etc).

This is a VERY VERY interesting theory I'd never heard of./considered before. You may be on to something.

Member boingboing has exactly the hair I was describing....like alpaca w/ but high gloss. Her hair's da bomb!

 

[MsBoinglicious]

This is a VERY VERY interesting theory I'd never heard of./considered before. You may be on to something.

Member boingboing has exactly the hair I was describing....like alpaca w/ but high gloss. Her hair's da bomb!

Thank you Jamaraa *strikes a pose* lol

ETA: *Off to look up the word Alpaca* I swear I have learned more on here than in my 5 years of college. lol

ETA: Oh its looks like a Lama!!

 

[Carrie A]

Same with the two bunnies I posted up thread. The big one's fur is softer and a bit more silky, but the smaller one had fur that felt rougher. They were both type 1.

Oh gosh I totally missed your bunnies. So cute!

 

[aegis]

i am 4b and product does not make my hair anybodies silky. i put eco styler gel in my hair and my hair laughs like "what is this nonsense?" not a wave pops outs lol

i think silkier hair tends to be thinner and the cuticles lay differently

 

[Tybi]

Ok, this is my theory:

I think silky hair has to do with the natural sulfur levels within the body. It can be genetic or due to supplements. Ex: When I take MSM (sulfur based) my hair grows out of my head softer & silkier. When I don't take it for a while, it grows out coarser with less sheen.

I also was told by a medical practioner that certain people have more sulfur in their bodies genetically (caucasians, or people with straighter hair, etc).

Yeah I have heard this and believe it too, which is why I am still so perplexed as to why my hair became extremely hard, dry and rough while taking MSM. It got so bad that I had to stop taking it because my hair was beginning to break off. As soon as I stopped the MSM, my hair began growing back in its regular state. I took the MSM for 4 months trying to increase growth. Not only did my growth rate not speed up, but that happened as well

 

[princessnad]

I think the scientific reason for silky hair has something to do with the number of cuticle layers.
It makes sense to me, because I've always thought that silkier hair tends to be finer and also more fragile. I know that I have a patch in the back of my head that I always have to baby, because on stretches, it's more prone to breakage. I was studying my head and I've figured out that in that patch, I have silky new growth. My new growth everywhere else is much stronger and coarser. And since I know that coarse hair has more cuticle layers, then it makes sense to me that its opposite would have less.

And would fewer cuticle layers facilitate movement of the hair? I'm not so knowledgeable about the structure of hair, so I don't know. But it does kind of make sense to me that it would...I think of it like when you have someone with body armor on. With less armor, they can move better.

But I do agree with the posters who say that silky hair is a result of a compact cuticles, but to me, compact cuticles are ones that overlap one another and tend to lay down, because silky hair to me is shiny and smooth. And laid down cuticles make for shiny and smooth hair. I guess it's possible to have a few layers of compact cuticles.

Bene, I think your hair looks super silky.

This is interesting. But I was always told that 4a hair (which is less likely to be silky than, say, 1a hair) has less cuticle layers, not more. So now I'm a bit confused.

http://www.slideshare.net/dralisyed/1-structureof-hair-euro-july-08

The Cuticle

• The cuticle covers the hair fiber.

• It is 5-10 layers in thickness (1).

In African descent hair there are less cuticle layers (2 layers) in the kink.

I knew I wasn't crazy

 

[wavezncurlz]

The member Wavezncurls' hair is the definition of silky IMO. It's blinging!!

LOL @ blinging! Thanks! I should say you all haven't seen a "naked" picture yet. I am afraid to let me hair dry without product b/c I will be detangling forever (or have to start from scratch with a new wash).

My hair has little movement but it does have shine. However, without product, it appears less silky. When I was about 8, my mom cut my hair into an afro because she was at here wits end with detangling after I joined a swim club and was in the water daily. We picked out curls out in those days to get the best roundish afro. I look back at those pictures and there was no shine in anywhere.


less shine here - no product on the ponytail

product here:

This picture of my dd's hair is silky to me.

Notice how the back of her hair when out is not silky and at the end of the day, her hair is far from silky.

To answer OP's question, I think it's a combination of genetics, products, and how one styles their hair.

 

[Victorian]

Interesting thread. I never really thought about the science of silky I think it has to do with how the outer layer lays down, and think there is definitely a spectrum.

My hair is fine, 4a, and feels silky. By silky I mean that my coils or individual strands feel smooth and slick to the touch, even when completely naked. It has high sheen, and when pulled taut it is shinier, but not super glossy/shiny. I'm attaching a few pics. My hair isn't as silky as the pic posted of the teacher, but will slick down with a bit of the ol' brush and scarf.

 

[FlowerHair]

LOL @ blinging! Thanks! I should say you all haven't seen a "naked" picture yet. I am afraid to let me hair dry without product b/c I will be detangling forever (or have to start from scratch with a new wash).

My hair has little movement but it does have shine. However, without product, it appears less silky. When I was about 8, my mom cut my hair into an afro because she was at here wits end with detangling after I joined a swim club and was in the water daily. We picked out curls out in those days to get the best roundish afro. I look back at those pictures and there was no shine in anywhere.


less shine here - no product on the ponytail


product here:


This picture of my dd's hair is silky to me.


Notice how the back of her hair when out is not silky and at the end of the day, her hair is far from silky.


To answer OP's question, I think it's a combination of genetics, products, and how one styles their hair.

You and your daughter's hairs are still blinging IMO
No amount of hair product could make my hair that silky looking...
I think adding product does make the hair look more silky, maybe because the cuticles lay more flat?

 

[ladytee2]

I must have a mental block because I still don't get it. The part of the sponge that has absorbed the water is wet. The part that hasn't yet absorbed the water is not wet. I can only imagine some of the hair absorbing the water and that hair being wet, whereas some other hair might not have yet absorbed and might not be wet yet. I don't get it.

This is a great thread but I dont get it either. I do like the description of silk like cashmere. Cashmere isnt shiny but its soft. It also doesnt have fluidity.

 

[wavezncurlz]

ok, see this little girl here? I saw her in an ad that I need to scan but I found her on the website. Her hair looks like mine and my dd's without any product and allowed to dry without combing/brushing before putting it into ponytails. I will try to scan when go back to work after the holidays because head on, you see her curls. It's cute on her but in real life, if we go out like that, detangling will be h3llified the next day and it will mat - lots of crying.

 

[LynnieB]

I think it's really disappointing that with all the descriptions of wiry, thready, cottony, silky on whatever websites responsible for creating them, none manage to include any visual examples.

Why is that? The visual is left up to a blogger, messageboard user or some other self-defined hair expert.

It is possible to throw up a few visuals. Look, if any of us have ever clothes shopped for apparel online, many times you can click on the item and get an enlarged picture of the garment. Some are soooooo large and clear that you can SEE the texture of the fabric and really get a good idea of what you're going to purchase. This is a very good thing.

There needs to be more of this same type of visual when hair textures are going to be discussed. It's not hard to do but would take some foresight, a little thought and effort.

Some of these adjectives are "fairly" self-explanatory, most are not and are extremely subjective and open to interpretation and I think any description of hair texture that doesn't include some type of visual example is basically a waste of time.

I know some of these efforts at texture categorizing are trying to help people learn about hair, especially OUR hair but usually after taking the time to digest the information, many of us are left just a clueless as we were before reading that info.

So what's the point?



There are some out there that make an effort, I have no beef with them because they did at least make an effort and many find them generally beneficial in some way. But once you start trying to get all specific, that's where the problems (and shortcomings of that particular system) really begin to reveal themselves and this is true especially if no visuals are provided.

Carry on ladies, interesting thread ya got goin' on here.

 

[glamazon386]

I think silky is the opposite of coarse.

 

[jupitermoon]

I agree that there are a number of factors that make the hair silky. Also, I think fine hair tends to be silky more so than coarse (thick strand) hair.

My hair feels smooth but not silky. It's medium to coarse. Unlikes silky hair my hair lacks shine and looks dull and dry even though it feels soft and smooth:

My hair after being in a braided bun all day:

Hair products do help, but like FlowerHair mentioned, nothing can make coarse hair silky. As previously mentioned in this thread, one advantage of having coarse hair is that it isn't as prone to breakage as fine hair.

 

[jupitermoon]

your hair is shinier in the pics w/out the gel

I hate gel and would never use it because of the dryness it causes

not worth it

Elasta QP Mango butter is a HIGH SHINE, holding/slicking product , almost like a gel replacement , even though its technically a heat protectant (say's so on the jar)

Me too. Gel is the devil to me, lol. I've yet to find a gel that doesn't dry out my hair, even the expensive ones like Kinky Curly Knot Today.

 

[FlowerHair]

^^^^Our hair is very similar CelinaStarr

 

[jupitermoon]

^^^^Our hair is very similar CelinaStarr

I think so too. Both of us have coarse curly hair, but your hair is very beautiful and long. I've still got some growin' to do, lol.

 

[wavezncurlz]

I agree that there are a number of factors that make the hair silky. Also, I think fine hair tends to be silky more so than coarse (thick strand) hair.

My hair feels smooth but not silky. It's medium to coarse. Unlikes silky hair my hair lacks shine and looks dull and dry even though it feels soft and smooth:

My hair after being in a braided bun all day:

Hair products do help, but like FlowerHair mentioned, nothing can make coarse hair silky. As previously mentioned in this thread, one advantage of having coarse hair is that it isn't as prone to breakage as fine hair.

Thanks so much for this post. Looking at your and FlowerHair's curls, I would have thought that maybe you used different products. My hair does look like yours when first washed without product. With product it lays flat. I just realized this when I had my second daughter. Though her hair looks similar when washed, it doesn't shine no matter what products I use. I was at wits end because I thought we had similar hair. No, her hair isn't silky but it's soft and curly. I wouldn't say coarse though. I think it may be like yours and flowerhair's but it's still kind of early to tell - she's turning 2 this weekend. Who knows, I'm still confused...

 

[jupitermoon]

Thanks so much for this post. Looking at your and FlowerHair's curls, I would have thought that maybe you used different products. My hair does look like yours when first washed without product. With product it lays flat. I just realized this when I had my second daughter. Though her hair looks similar when washed, it doesn't shine no matter what products I use. I was at wits end because I thought we had similar hair. No, her hair isn't silky but it's soft and curly. I wouldn't say coarse though. I think it may be like yours and flowerhair's but it's still kind of early to tell - she's turning 2 this weekend. Who knows, I'm still confused...

I don't use mousse, gels, hairsprays, or any other "stylers". Leaving conditioner in my hair, a little Extra Virgin Olive Oil (EVOO), and frequent/daily water washes work well for me. Aussie Moist conditioner is a staple of mine, but for the past few days I have been using Vo5 as a leave in followed by a little EVOO. So far so good. I'm trying to move away from using cones as much as possible, because my hair takes longer to dry with them, and I'd rather not walk around with wet hair this time of year.

Your daughter's hair may not shine and may even look kind of dry. But if it's feels soft and moisturized (or not dry) and isn't breaking or have splits then it is most likely healthy.