What makes hair silky?

[anon123]

I bought a bottle like that once and I used pretty much the whole thing at once and then the next morning I had to use the rest to slick it back down. My hair is a beast. That's why I don't use shampoo because when I did even hair dressers would put half a bottle of moisturizer in my hair, when I had a Wave Nouveau , and would be amazed at how it would just disappear like it never happened. When I used to use shampoo I would moisturize on wet hair than I still had to moisturize all over again after my hair dried for my hair to actually not be dry.

I think it's safe to say that if you need a whole bottle of gel for one hair set, your hair is not "silky"

 

[Irresistible]

Irresistible I remember all your posts about using conditioner to "seal" your oil in and I am just coming to realize that you are so right. Oil really makes a difference because it restricts my hair's ability to drink up - but it a good way. Henna too. The soak into my hair an leave less empty space that needs to be filled up or something like that.

The more I read about hair I see that oils are a huge part of the reggies of ladies in countries where long lustrous hair is highly prized. I mean how much conditioner is in the ayurveda aisle?

I fell like my hair journey would be so much easier if I could manage without conditioner. Can I dream?

oh and your talking about reaching' saturation' level or close, yes the oil helps that also so your hair doesnt drink the conditioner or leave in as much

 

[Irresistible]

Roller sets can temporarily give that silky look too.

Really seems like we might be having a conversation about porosity talking about thirsty hair. But can't some hair be missing its medulla? Maybe that's why our hair is thirsty?

whatever it is , seems like all heads of hair have different 'saturation' points, where the product has already absorbed and saturated fully and is then staying in your hair

 

[gymfreak336]

I would definitely call your hair silky as well Bene considering the high gloss is it as smooth to the touch as it appears?

For future reference, when I'm referencing 4a silky, I'm referencing hair like Robotxcore professor. Coils the size of a penspring but easily slicked or smoothed down, I betcha she could get a smooth neat rollerset too

The opposite of how my non-silky hair behaves

Now that is interesting. I have seen some 4a girls that still manage to rollerset without any major issues and the final result looks polished like it was relaxed. There hair in its natural state was the silky type to me too.

And who ever said they notice more silkiness in fine hair, I would agree.

In terms of what silky means to me, hair that has a natural higher gloss is silky to me. My mom is a typical 4b and her hair has sheen but it isn't silky.

 

[Bene]

Now that is interesting. I have seen some 4a girls that still manage to rollerset without any major issues and the final result looks polished like it was relaxed. There hair in its natural state was the silky type to me too.

And who ever said they notice more silkiness in fine hair, I would agree.

In terms of what silky means to me, hair that has a natural higher gloss is silky to me. My mom is a typical 4b and her hair has sheen but it isn't silky.

I'mma sound like a complete retard... But, what's the difference between sheen and gloss?

 

[gymfreak336]

I'mma sound like a complete retard... But, what's the difference between sheen and gloss?

To me gloss is a more consistent high shine. Like a more uniform high reflection of light. Glossy hair seems to shine consistently through the hair. Sheen is a lower grade gloss. It isn't as consistent through the hair sometimes either, especially in tighter hair textures like the 4a and 4b's.

 

[FlowerHair]

I think it's the diameter of the strands.
My hair is definately not silky unless I put lots of product on it.
My friend has the same curl size but her hair is always silky - I think because it's very very fine and thin (the strands).

As you can see in my current siggy, my strands are even visible from afar. They are very thick.

 

[Chaosbutterfly]

I think the scientific reason for silky hair has something to do with the number of cuticle layers.
It makes sense to me, because I've always thought that silkier hair tends to be finer and also more fragile. I know that I have a patch in the back of my head that I always have to baby, because on stretches, it's more prone to breakage. I was studying my head and I've figured out that in that patch, I have silky new growth. My new growth everywhere else is much stronger and coarser. And since I know that coarse hair has more cuticle layers, then it makes sense to me that its opposite would have less.

And would fewer cuticle layers facilitate movement of the hair? I'm not so knowledgeable about the structure of hair, so I don't know. But it does kind of make sense to me that it would...I think of it like when you have someone with body armor on. With less armor, they can move better.

But I do agree with the posters who say that silky hair is a result of a compact cuticles, but to me, compact cuticles are ones that overlap one another and tend to lay down, because silky hair to me is shiny and smooth. And laid down cuticles make for shiny and smooth hair. I guess it's possible to have a few layers of compact cuticles.

Bene, I think your hair looks super silky.

 

[anon123]

type 1a cottony:

 

[Irresistible]

boy we really been getting down to dissecting our hair around here all kinds of ways lately

 

[Bene]

boy we really been getting down to dissecting our hair around here all kinds of ways lately

I kinda like it. I don't have a frame of reference for a lot of things, so everyone detailing and dissecting helps me understand.

 

[Irresistible]

I think it's the diameter of the strands.
My hair is definately not silky unless I put lots of product on it.
My friend has the same curl size but her hair is always silky - I think because it's very very fine and thin (the strands).

As you can see in my current siggy, my strands are even visible from afar. They are very thick.

I never noticed that before ,true, you can see how thick each of your strands are in the pic, that's some seriously thick strands girl to show up in a pic

they must not break easy, and snap like thread with a loud pop

 

[FlowerHair]

type 1a cottony:

LOL!!!
You know what! I know a woman with a hair condition that has that type of hair. It's just like a rabbit's hair. She usually wears a scarf because of her thin and almost non-existant hair. Her hair lacks the part that is usually at the center of the hair. The medulla... It's completely limp and downy almost. lol!

I never noticed that before ,true, you can see how thick each of your strands are in the pic, that's some seriously thick strands girl to show up in a pic

they must not break easy, and snap like thread with a loud pop

It's true, they don't snap easily at all
I think that's one of the reasons it's grown so long.

 

[princessnad]

I think the scientific reason for silky hair has something to do with the number of cuticle layers.
It makes sense to me, because I've always thought that silkier hair tends to be finer and also more fragile. I know that I have a patch in the back of my head that I always have to baby, because on stretches, it's more prone to breakage. I was studying my head and I've figured out that in that patch, I have silky new growth. My new growth everywhere else is much stronger and coarser. And since I know that coarse hair has more cuticle layers, then it makes sense to me that its opposite would have less.

And would fewer cuticle layers facilitate movement of the hair? I'm not so knowledgeable about the structure of hair, so I don't know. But it does kind of make sense to me that it would...I think of it like when you have someone with body armor on. With less armor, they can move better.

But I do agree with the posters who say that silky hair is a result of a compact cuticles, but to me, compact cuticles are ones that overlap one another and tend to lay down, because silky hair to me is shiny and smooth. And laid down cuticles make for shiny and smooth hair. I guess it's possible to have a few layers of compact cuticles.

Bene, I think your hair looks super silky.

This is interesting. But I was always told that 4a hair (which is less likely to be silky than, say, 1a hair) has less cuticle layers, not more. So now I'm a bit confused.

 

[Neith]

Silky hair = Fine hair. Tends to be smoother and be more malleable. Soft to the touch.

Coarse hair = Thicker hairs. Tends to be more dry and feels more wiry. Hard to the touch.

And of course, there are plenty people in between and plenty people that have a mix.


I always thought that the biggest difference is the strand thickness.

A thicker strand with tons of cuticle/cuticle layers will be more wiry to the touch. A thinner strand will will feel softer.

Just like the hair on your hair compared to the hair down there.



Looking at the definition of silky and coarse....

Coarse -

1. rough: harsh or rough to the touch

2. with thick grains or strands: consisting of large grains or thick strands


Silky -

1. looking or feeling like silk: resembling silk, especially in smoothness, softness, or shininess


I think both hairtypes are beautiful I see myself as a very coarse 4a.

 

[Ediese]

I don't consider the pics of any of the ladies posted here as silky except Bene's siggy. There is a member here that has 3c/4a type hair and there is no question that it's a fine/silky texture. I'll post a link if I see her siggy.

 

[anon123]

I have always thought silky hair is hair that has natural shine. Hair that reflects light without product is silky.

According to the LOIS hair typing system hair textures can be:

Silky - Hair has low sheen, a very high shine, with a lot or low frizz. Easily wets in water.

Thready - Hair as a low sheen, with high shine if the hair is held taut (as in a braid), with low frizz. Wets easily but water dries out quickly.

Wiry - Hair has a sparkly sheen, with low shine and low frizz. Water beads up or bounces off the hair strands. Hair never seems to get fully wet.

Cottony - Hair has a low sheen, a high shine if the hair is held taunt and has high frizz. Absorbs water quickly but does not get thoroughly wet very fast.

Spongy - Hair has a high sheen with low shine with a compacted looking frizz. Absorbs water before it gets thoroughly wet.

Shine is a sharp reflection of light while Sheen is a dull reflection of light.

I could never get the LOIS system because, no matter how many times it's explained, I don't understand the difference between "sheen" and "shine". I mean, I'm reading the words, but they don't mean anything to me. I don't know what a dull reflection of light is versus a sharp reflection.

And what in the world is Spongy. How do you absorb water without getting wet? When my dish sponge absorbs water, it's wet. I seriously don't understand what that could mean.

 

[anon123]

Silky hair = Fine hair. Tends to be smoother and be more malleable. Soft to the touch.

Coarse hair = Thicker hairs. Tends to be more dry and feels more wiry. Hard to the touch.

And of course, there are plenty people in between and plenty people that have a mix.


I always thought that the biggest difference is the strand thickness.

A thicker strand with tons of cuticle/cuticle layers will be more wiry to the touch. A thinner strand will will feel softer.

Just like the hair on your hair compared to the hair down there.

I don't understand this, either. My hair, for example, is rough to the touch. But I don't think it's because my individual strands are thick or have a lot of cuticle layers. My thickest strands don't even get to "medium" under the definition for thickness running around out there (compare to 1-ply sewing thread). I definitely would not call my hair silky. I think my hair feels rough to the touch because of all the bends on it. I would describe thick-strand Asian hair as feeling softer than mine because there aren't a million little bumps (curls) along the length.

 

[jamaraa]

IMHO, it's tactile and movement. It has to do w/ the coarseness of the hair to the touch and how it moves at a certain length. Your hair can be bone straight and not be "silky", yet super curly and it is. Looks are deceptive here. I also think it has nothing to do w/ the width of the strand...it just is or it ain't.

I guess some folks mean bone straight when they say it, but what does it FEEL like?!

 

[Keen]

I think it has something to do with the cuticles. Like how type 1 hair reflects the light because it is smooth and type 4 refracts light because it......well it isn't smooth. Gotta do with the shape of the hair strand or something I think.

Not very helpful

Yep. that's pretty much it.

 

[ChristmasCarol]

This is a great thread. It explains much of what I wonder about when I see hair that is the same type, but looks totally different to me. Your explanations of silky, shiny, coarse, fine and dull make sense to me now.

My bf and I have about the same hair type (4a mostly, with 3c at front and the whole crown for me, for her - 4a at front and crown, 3c from ear to ear down to nape) but it behaves differently. Both of us have medium/coarse strands, but my hair is always moving. Anytime I move, my hair moves - whether texlaxed or natural. Her hair is somewhat stiff. Then again, the location of the 3c hair could also explain this. Since my less curly hair is on top and grows faster and longer than the rest, it kinda covers all the 4a hair, and that could be why it looks like it moves so much. Her crown and front is 4a, and covers her 3c, which may explain why it appears somewhat "stiff".

Interesting...carry on, ladies!

 

[Neith]

I don't understand this, either. My hair, for example, is rough to the touch. But I don't think it's because my individual strands are thick or have a lot of cuticle layers. My thickest strands don't even get to "medium" under the definition for thickness running around out there (compare to 1-ply sewing thread). I definitely would not call my hair silky. I think my hair feels rough to the touch because of all the bends on it. I would describe thick-strand Asian hair as feeling softer than mine because there aren't a million little bumps (curls) along the length.

Hmmm... I dunno then. Neith's brain just shut down.

Is it really in the texture? SIlky 4's have the same amount of bends, but their hair is soft.

Maybe I'll do some research on this.

 

[FlowerHair]

The member Wavezncurls' hair is the definition of silky IMO. It's blinging!!

 

[MonPetite]

I think part of the issue is that shine, softness and silkiness and coarseness, sheen and thick are not mutually exclusive (I'm not saying anyone has said that, just thinking aloud here).

You can have thick, coarse, strands with sheen that are butter soft (with or without product).

You can have fine, shiny strands with hordes of movement that feel rough.

By looking at these two, you would think the thick, coarse hair is not silky and the shiny, blow in the wind hair is. However, upon feeling them, one feels like cheap upholstery and the other feels as luxuriously soft as a down-filled pillow.

Which one is truly silky? Or is it one is silky and one is soft and silky does not necessarily equal soft?

Perhaps "silky" is an extreme, just as "coarse" may be.

There are far too many texture mixtures and mixtures of the attributes discussed above on ONE STRAND to make it a matter of "silky or not silky".

 

[Nonie]

OT: I officially hate Mozilla Firefox. I have tried 3 effin times to respond to this discussion and each time the effin browser goes "Oops..." and crashes. And then when it restores my tabs, my post is no more. I'm gonna try doing this on Chrome and if I lose my post again, I'm done.

Nice discussion BTW.

 

[Nonie]

I am with Flowerhair: the word silky brings to mind blinging hair. I also get Bene because if we had two heads with blinging hair to the same degree, and one hair was soft and more fluid while the other coarse (I really mean thick) and less flowing, the softer, more fluid hair would be silkier IMO. I think finer hair is more likely to feel like to the touch than thicker strands.

Since hair cuticle is responsible for shine, I wonder if the more the layers, the more the shine. :scratchch Asian hair shines the most and they have the most layers. Curly hair has fewer cuticle layers where the bends occur and that to me could partly explains the less shine in that hair. I am not fond of the explanation that the lack of shine in curly hair is because the cuticle lifts at that bends. When you think of the size of cuticle scales relative to the diameter of the bends in curly hair (even 4B hair) the cuticles are so small that the bend hardly makes a huge difference. I think lack of shine has more to do with basic physics. (Physics Majors be gentle when you come in to squash my suggestion. )

When you shine light on a flat surface, all the rays bounce off with the same angle they arrived and parallel to each other so that enough of them enter your eye for you to behold the shine. When light falls on a curved surface (convex, concave or random) the rays that arrived parallel bounce off in different directions so that if your eye is placed in the same position it was when when light was bouncing off a flat surface, some rays do not enter your eye so the bling you behold is less than in the case of the flat surface.

My hair, like Mwedzi's is not silky when in its natural state. I think of S Curl as both a moisturizing product as well as a styling product, after all, wasn't it the main styling product for jheri curls? And just like Mwedzi's hair, my hair w/ or w/o product looks more or less the same:

This is w/ product:

This is w/o product:

So my 4B hair could not be described as silky. However, it does get somewhat "silky" when it is pressed. I think that's just coz it reflects light better. Perhaps lack of swang takes away that silkiness factor, but then I find the coarser (I really mean thicker) the strands of hair, the better the swang (due to weight) so now I wonder if swang is really a determiner. Perhaps feel, as Neith suggested, is more the deciding fact along with shine.

My pressed hair w/o product looks like this:

My pressed hair w/ product looks like this:

The increase in shine due to the smooth texture and the fact that it is fine does make it feel/appear silkier but because it isn't this way when not manipulated, I would not consider it silky by any stretch of the imagination.

I think if you have to use gel to bring out the bling, then your hair isn't naturally silky. Also if your hair strands don't feel like buttery soft with a slipperiness that is characteristic of silk, then I would not really consider it silky.

When I think of silky, I think of the feel (buttery softness, smoothness) and shine of a newborn baby's hair:

WaveznCurlz' hair does seem to be a longer version of that sort of hair.

 

[jamaraa]

Geez Nonie you just shut it down gal! She done brought up physics and evey'thang. Dang you got some hair. The diff between curly and straight is like Major. You're right, I honestly can't tell the diff between product and w/o on the curly pics.

The irony is that many people thought of as having "nappy" hair on LOOKS, but touch...it's like a silky wool (think alpaca). It luxurious to the feel. Straightened, its has swang.

 

[LadyRaider]

I was trying to look this up on the internet and I read that coarse hairs have "lifted" cuticles while more silky hair has cuticles that lie flat.

I wonder if the heat makes them lie down for a while? (referring to Nonie's pictures.)

 

[Nonie]

I was trying to look this up on the internet and I read that coarse hairs have "lifted" cuticles while more silky hair has cuticles that lie flat.

I wonder if the heat makes them lie down for a while? (referring to Nonie's pictures.)

Coarse hair, in the sense of rough hair, does have lifted cuticles. I would like to correct my previous post and state that when I used the word coarse, I meant thick (the opposite of fine), not rough which is actually the more precise meaning of coarse. So I apologize for the confusion. My statement:

I also get Bene because if we had two heads with blinging hair to the same degree, and one hair was soft and more fluid while the other coarse and less flowing, the softer, more fluid hair would be silkier IMO. I think finer hair is more likely to feel like to the touch than thicker strands.

I was thinking in the sense of thicker...not so much rough...coz rough hair doesn't really shine, so to get both hairs to the same bling, they'd both have to be smooth.

Flat ironing doesn't really smooth cuticle but rather provides a flatter surface for better reflection. We all have seen hair that is straight and without shine. I do believe decreasing the pH of the hair so cuticle close would improve the shine though.

 

[PerplexingComplex]

And what in the world is Spongy. How do you absorb water without getting wet? When my dish sponge absorbs water, it's wet. I seriously don't understand what that could mean.

That's what my hair does. It absorbs the water before getting wet. The outside of the sponge doesn't get wet until it's reached complete absorption.