Why is it that we don't grow our hair to termininal length as much?

[gymfreak336]

JustKiya you are even more hardcore than I thought. Mason Pearson COMBS?! LOL...I thought I was stylin' w/ my MP brush! I got those $1 versions for my family, but I have a $10 horn comb. LOL...I DO have a handmade Japanese paluowia wood comb the kind that geisha/maiko use, so there!

Cheapo horn combs are a nice "starter" for someone unused to using a very widetoothed comb. It feels a bit different and takes some getting used to.

BostonMaria...you'd do bun styles. Highly professional and enviable!

Irresistable I'd think your hair is probably near sit down length straightened...could be longer.

Gymfreak I think it's far easier the less we do to it. Black people do far more to their hair than most other folks too. I think that the fact that we're so style oriented costs us length.[/QUOTE]

IDK....I think the amount you do or don't do to your hair depends on the other characteristics of it like your density and things like that. No manipulation doesn't work for some people. Also, just the way our hair strand naturally has spots of weakness from the inconsistency of how our hair is assembled as it is being cranked through our follicules, naturally lends our hair to having a different set of issues. .

 

[jamaraa]

^^^Yes true, but how many people who have these super long locks have, shall I say, extremely textured hair down the full shaft?

Of course, not everybody of any race CAN have super long hair...there's a genetic factor. However, many more Black people can have it than we see that do.

I do believe that African textured hair has some unique issues, but I simply don't believe that it's so weak and fragile as people like to claim. Most of those who are always talking about breakage do alot to their hair. It's not just breaking off on it's own.

 

[MizAvalon]

Thanks for your response, JustKiyah.

 

[gymfreak336]

^^^Yes true, but how many people who have these super long locks have, shall I say, extremely textured hair down the full shaft?

Of course, not everybody of any race CAN have super long hair...there's a genetic factor. However, many more Black people can have it than we see that do.

I do believe that African textured hair has some unique issues, but I simply don't believe that it's so weak and fragile as people like to claim. Most of those who are always talking about breakage do alot to their hair. It's not just breaking off on it's own.

I don't think our hair is destined to be weak. I am talking about comparing two women, one with 4b hair and another with 2b hair. One a baseline comparison, the way the hair strands are made differently plays a major part in it all. We have to compensate for than to a greater extent.

Majority of AA women still don't know how to care for their hair. I am not even talking about them in this convo...

 

[LunadeMiel]

I fully plan to let my hair grow to terminal length. I will NEVER cut my hair. That BC almost threw me over the edge....

 

[Grow_it_out]

I found this info at http://www.curls.biz/learn-about-curls/naturally-curly-hair-care/black-hair-care.html. "All hair types need moisture to stay healthy, but black hair tends to be the driest and the most fragile. Most African Americans suffer hair damage and breakage from chemical treatments and heat styling taking the luster out of natural curly hair. CURLS all natural professional product line for black hair adds moisture back and repairs the hair." My personal goal is to have hair that is MBL, anything longer I think would be too much maintenance for me.

 

[Grow_it_out]

I also believe in a way we have been trained to cut our hair. I used to have my hair relaxed and styled professionally every six weeks, and every six weeks I was also told by stylists that I needed a trim. I've stopped having my hair done every six weeks and I no longer get my hair cut either.

 

[jamaraa]

I don't think our hair is destined to be weak. I am talking about comparing two women, one with 4b hair and another with 2b hair. One a baseline comparison, the way the hair strands are made differently plays a major part in it all. We have to compensate for than to a greater extent.

Majority of AA women still don't know how to care for their hair. I am not even talking about them in this convo...

Well I'll be honest and say I simply never compare the two. Easier and harder are not how I look at it. You do what it requires to take care of YOUR hair and that's it. The only compensation I think necessary is finding tools geared towards care of African textures in an environment catering to straighter textures.

I don't think we have to "compensate" past that. This is about simply taking care of our needs which are different than some one else's. I guess what I'm saying is that comparing African textured hair to non African generally is an apples and oranges discussion and kind of pointless. All it is is yet another negative comparison of African textures to Euro/Asian ones. That's not aimed at you, but that's kind of like saying White people have it easier wrt to hyperpigmentation. OK, fine...but so what, that doesn't help MY African issues.

 

[gymfreak336]

Well I'll be honest and say I simply never compare the two. Easier and harder are not how I look at it. You do what it requires to take care of YOUR hair and that's it. The only compensation I think necessary is finding tools geared towards care of African textures in an environment catering to straighter textures.

I don't think we have to "compensate" past that. This is about simply taking care of our needs which are different than some one else's. I guess what I'm saying is that comparing African textured hair to non African generally is an apples and oranges discussion and kind of pointless. All it is is yet another negative comparison of African textures to Euro/Asian ones. That's not aimed at you, but that's kind of like saying White people have it easier wrt to hyperpigmentation. OK, fine...but so what, that doesn't help MY African issues.

In terms of asking my we don't and they do, which is what this thread was talking about, then I do compare the two. If the general observation is that they do and we don't then I look at both head of hair at a baseline state. Then I examine the difference in why they do and we don't to a large extent and our hair in its natural composition is a factor. It isn't impossible to deal with but you have to be aware of what about your hair is different and address those issues. That is what I am talking about in terms of compensate.

 

[Prettyeyes]

Interesting topic but I just don't have a desire to get to terminal. Once I reach a length that I feel is long and looks good I will maintain there.

 

[jamaraa]

Gymfreak Firstly, most of these convos work from the ASSUMPTION that we don't....it's simply NOT TRUE. Not only that, they don't consider that African textured hair, esp. unstraightened, doesn't show it's length the same as straighter textures. When you add these two factors into a convo, it changes things drastically, IMHO.

What I'm trying to say is that to compare straight textures to ours w/o factoring these things in and then coming to the conclusion that they have it "easier" is simply misleading. In short, these convos tend to ignore African textured long hairs because the FULL length doesn't always show on unstraightened hair and/or it's not worn loose...nevertheless, the hair is still there. In short, most Black people w/ exceptional lengths of hair have 1 or 2 things....unstraightened hair OR hair not worn loose.

 

[gymfreak336]

Gymfreak Firstly, most of these convos work from the ASSUMPTION that we don't....NOT TRUE. Not only that, they don't consider that African textured hair doesn't show it's length the same as straighter textures. When you add these two factors into a convo, it changes things drastically, IMHO.

What I'm trying to say is that to compare straight textures to ours w/o factoring these things in and then coming to the conclusion that they have it "easier" is simply misleading. In short, these convos tend to ignore African textured long hairs because the FULL length doesn't always show on unstraightened hair and/or it's not won loose...nevertheless, the hair is still there.

No one said that we don't. The question raised about the frequency.

We all know about shrinkage, that is something that plagues any type of texured hair.

In terms of being easier, yes, in some ways it is easier. So? Its not impossible, never has been, never will be. The fundamental problem is still that the lack of education in our community about our hair is still there. That education also includes learning the differences in your hair type compared to others and using that information to find a regime that works for you in accumlating and retaining long healthy hair. I really don't know what you were trying to pull from my post.

 

[jamaraa]

^^ Plagues? Nah...it just is what it is. NOT STRAIGHT. I pulled from your post THIS underlying theme and that's what I'm responding to. What you wrote isn't exactly unusual or difficult to understand...the subtext isn't hard to discern. African textured hair will never be anything other than what it is, but looking at that negatively has harmed our cause. LOL...the reason so many Black women have short hair when they want long hair is looking at other people's techniques who have hair unlike ours, trying them on ourselves, and then baffled as to why they don't work. We know what they do already, we're trying to learn what works for us.

The question is raised about frequency because people, as I said, discount dreads and they don't take into account shrinkage (no we don't all know about it or factor it in). Even JustKiya forgot about dreads and she's worn them herself.

 

[JustKiya]

JustKiya you are even more hardcore than I thought. Mason Pearson COMBS?! LOL...I thought I was stylin' w/ my MP brush! I got those $1 versions for my family, but I have a $10 horn comb. LOL...I DO have a handmade Japanese paluowia wood comb the kind that geisha/maiko use, so there!

Cheapo horn combs are a nice "starter" for someone unused to using a very widetoothed comb. It feels a bit different and takes some getting used to.

Girl, I LOVE my combs! They were hard as HECK to find info on - it took me a while to finally figure out what they are made from, and not many people sell them online, at all. I maintain they are worth it. I eye'd their brushes, but despite my wonderful success with the denman, I'm still & about them.

Ah, true, true, good point, in the bold. I'm itching for one of those Japanese combs though - is the wood super smooth? I've been reading about them linked to camellia oil, and I'm SO tempted to get both, but I'm trying to keep myself in check!

IDK....I think the amount you do or don't do to your hair depends on the other characteristics of it like your density and things like that. No manipulation doesn't work for some people. Also, just the way our hair strand naturally has spots of weakness from the inconsistency of how our hair is assembled as it is being cranked through our follicules, naturally lends our hair to having a different set of issues. .

I feel you here, and I don't at the same time. I think that a lot of it, goes back to styling decisions. No manipulation would not work for me if I wore my hair loose. However, not manipulating my hair for 2 weeks at a time works fine if I have it in twists. As jamaraa mentioned earlier, people with dreads can grow hair to enormous lengths.....

I agree, our hair is definitely different, which means that we can't do the same things to get our hair to terminal length. However, I don't think that it's supremely difficult to get our hair there - we just have to do it our way (which has been lost due to our history in the Diaspora) rather than theirs - which is all most of us know.

 

[gymfreak336]

^^ Plagues? Nah...it just is what it is. NOT STRAIGHT. I pulled from your post THIS underlying theme and that's what I'm responding to. What you wrote isn't exactly unusual or difficult to understand...the subtext isn't hard to discern. African textured hair will never be anything other than what it is, but looking at that negatively has harmed our cause. LOL...the reason so many Black women have short hair when they want long hair is looking at other people's techniques who have hair unlike ours, trying them on ourselves, and then baffled as to why they don't work. We know what they do already, we're trying to learn what works for us.

The question is raised about frequency because people, as I said, discount dreads and they don't take into account shrinkage (no we don't all know about it or factor it in). Even JustKiya forgot about dreads and she's worn them herself.

Who looks at AA hair negatively? I don't think anyone in this post does. Its different, no better, no worse than anyone elses. I never said that because I don't agree with it. I have never said anything like that on this board.

The reason why black women have short hair when they want long hair is that they don't know or understand hair period.

 

[JustKiya]

Hah! It took me to long to write my post - gymfreak & jamaraa covered it all, already.

 

[gymfreak336]

Girl, I LOVE my combs! They were hard as HECK to find info on - it took me a while to finally figure out what they are made from, and not many people sell them online, at all. I maintain they are worth it. I eye'd their brushes, but despite my wonderful success with the denman, I'm still & about them.

Ah, true, true, good point, in the bold. I'm itching for one of those Japanese combs though - is the wood super smooth? I've been reading about them linked to camellia oil, and I'm SO tempted to get both, but I'm trying to keep myself in check!



I feel you here, and I don't at the same time. I think that a lot of it, goes back to styling decisions. No manipulation would not work for me if I wore my hair loose. However, not manipulating my hair for 2 weeks at a time works fine if I have it in twists. As jamarra mentioned earlier, people with dreads can grow hair to enormous lengths.....

I agree, our hair is definitely different, which means that we can't do the same things to get our hair to terminal length. However, I don't think that it's supremely difficult to get our hair there - we just have to do it our way (which has been lost due to our) rather than theirs - which is all most of us know.

I think of dreads differently since you are accumlating shed hair as well in the process. I thought that statement was an understood given. I have yet to see anyone with dreads for a good amount of time that didn't have long hair unless they decided to cut it.

I do agree, we have to do it our way but majority of AA women don't even have a basic understanding of hair period. To me its like trying to take abnormal psych class without taking general psych first. You have to understand the medium in which you are working with in order to understand and cater to your needs. Its not impossible. It requires dedication and patience.

 

[jamaraa]

Ah, true, true, good point, in the bold. I'm itching for one of those Japanese combs though - is the wood super smooth? I've been reading about them linked to camellia oil, and I'm SO tempted to get both, but I'm trying to keep myself in check!

I feel you here, and I don't at the same time. I think that a lot of it, goes back to styling decisions. No manipulation would not work for me if I wore my hair loose. However, not manipulating my hair for 2 weeks at a time works fine if I have it in twists. As jamarra mentioned earlier, people with dreads can grow hair to enormous lengths.....

I agree, our hair is definitely different, which means that we can't do the same things to get our hair to terminal length. However, I don't think that it's supremely difficult to get our hair there - we just have to do it our way (which has been lost due to our) rather than theirs - which is all most of us know.

Yes, the combs are very smooth but they tend to be rather small in size, the teeth are close together, but the teeth are very long....you soak them in the camellia oil to keep them supple and give them "slip"...besides, it helps the combs last forever. I figure you can use jojoba as a substitute for camellia. It's a very similar oil and cheaper. (Jojoba might be the tops dog between the two, tbh)

As for the rest, that's all I'm saying. We already KNOW what they do...some of the techniques aren't all bad, but many (most?) don't help keep African textured hair at it's premium, IMHO.

MP brushes are great for my head ans scalp. I don't use them frequently and never the 100 strokes deal , but I do adore my board bristled brush.

 

[JustKiya]

I think of dreads differently since you are accumlating shed hair as well in the process. I thought that statement was an understood given. I have yet to see anyone with dreads for a good amount of time that didn't have long hair unless they decided to cut it.

I do agree, we have to do it our way but majority of AA women don't even have a basic understanding of hair period. To me its like trying to take abnormal psych class without taking general psych first. You have to understand the medium in which you are working with in order to understand and cater to your needs. Its not impossible. It requires dedication and patience.

And we are in total agreement here! *happydance* I'm hoping that the internet (and LHCF, in particular) will help us rediscover what we are really working with.

As usual, it's always delightful posting with you.....

 

[anon123]

I will never see my hair at terminal length unless perhaps I let it lock, in which case though it might get to terminal length and beyond but I still won't know what my terminal length is because locs continue to get longer past that because they contain shed hair that is no longer coming from the scalp. I will not see my loose hair reach terminal length because the stress of detangling it breaks it off. That is just reality for my hair and for a lot of very kinky type hair. Which is why even on a board dedicated to black women growing their hair long (we know the majority of us off-board don't know much about hair care), you still don't see it much.

I don't know what my terminal length would be, but detangling even full mbl hair sounds like a nightmare. I just cut my near bsl hair because of tangling issues and stress.

 

[JustKiya]

Yes, the combs are very smooth but they tend to be rather small in size, the teeth are close together, but the teeth are very long....you soak them in the camellia oil to keep them supple and give them "slip"...besides, it helps the combs last forever. I figure you can use jojoba as a substitute for camellia. It's a very similar oil and cheaper. (Jojoba might be the tops dog between the two, tbh)

As for the rest, that's all I'm saying. We already KNOW what they do...some of the techniques aren't all bad, but many (most?) don't help keep African textured hair at it's premium, IMHO.

MP brushes are great for my head ans scalp. I don't use them frequently and never the 100 strokes deal , but I do adore my board bristled brush.

Ahh. Interesting. I could comb small sections of my hair with a comb that size, but it would take me WAY too long. WAY too long.

Jojoba? Really? Back when I was using it, my hair did not approve. erplexed Hrm. I might retry the jojoba before I get the camellia... maybe.

Hrm. That's interesting re: the brush. I think the longer my hair gets, the easier it will be to get to my scalp. I could be wrong, though.

 

[gymfreak336]

And we are in total agreement here! *happydance* I'm hoping that the internet (and LHCF, in particular) will help us rediscover what we are really working with.

As usual, it's always delightful posting with you.....

Back atch!

Personally, even though at times I get fustrated, I wouldn't trade my hair type. Would I make it softer, yet, a little fuller, of course! but I wouldn't trade my texture. I can duplicate a 1b...I just flat iron it all the way out, I can duplicate a 3b...I just set it on flexi rods.....but I have yet to see a relatively easy way to duplicate 4b.

 

[jamaraa]

I think of dreads differently since you are accumlating shed hair as well in the process. I thought that statement was an understood given. I have yet to see anyone with dreads for a good amount of time that didn't have long hair unless they decided to cut it.

I do agree, we have to do it our way but majority of AA women don't even have a basic understanding of hair period. To me its like trying to take abnormal psych class without taking general psych first. You have to understand the medium in which you are working with in order to understand and cater to your needs. Its not impossible. It requires dedication and patience.

Dread "counts" because the length is made up of hair that's growing. This is why when you unravel them (patiently) you lose little to no length. IOW, the length of hair you see represents the actual length of the loose hair....it's not the accumulated hair. The unshed hair tends to thicken the dread, but doesn't account for much length.

That's just my obs from taking them out.

Agreed on the rest.

 

[gymfreak336]

Dread "counts" because the length is made up of hair that's growing. This is why when you unravel them (patiently) you lose little to no length. IOW, the length of hair you see represents the actual length of the loose hair....it's not the accumulated hair. The unshed hair tends to thicken the dread, but doesn't account for much length.

That's just my obs from taking them out.

Agreed on the rest.

I agree with that. I look at it differently because you are not manipulating your hair the same way. The physical stress a head of loose hair goes through washing and conditioning is different than a cluster of hair locked together.

 

[JustKiya]

Back atch!

Personally, even though at times I get fustrated, I wouldn't trade my hair type. Would I make it softer, yet, a little fuller, of course! but I wouldn't trade my texture. I can duplicate a 1b...I just flat iron it all the way out, I can duplicate a 3b...I just set it on flexi rods.....but I have yet to see a relatively easy way to duplicate 4b.

I'd just make mine a little longer, I think. As - different/unique/puzzling - as it is, I do love my hair.

I so want to get in your hair, Mwedzi. SO. WANT.

 

[jamaraa]

JustKiya about the brush and scalp..umm, maybe. I mostly use it on my scalp and little down the length.

About camellia vs jojoba...from what I understand, they are quite close to each other in terms of how they behave on hair/skin...they absorb unlike the vast majority of oils. Camellia is very nice, I use it on my face. It's just so darn expensive even compared to expensive jojoba oil which it native to the good ol' US of A. I think jojoba might be weird on some because it goes from"oily" to "dry". Perhaps you should try it again and see what happens. Expect it to go from the usual oily to dry because it absorbs into the hair/skin.

 

[jamaraa]

Gymfreak are we cool again?! I honestly didn't want to have trouble...this issue is just a big one for me! LOL

It honestly depends on how people take care of their dreads, IMHO. Some dread heads do even more to their hair than I do to my loose hair. As for loose hair, I think it really depends too. For example, I can't wear "braids" in terms of styles or for long times. For me, braids (only my mother does them) are only meant for a day or two...maybe 3 if I'm just too lazy. For me, it's the scalp that matters most of all. LOL..the hair will take care of itself, but my scalp will kill me if I neglect it. I'm a plait girl mostly.

JustKiya when you had dreads, how did you start/maintain them them?

 

[anon123]

^^^Yes true, but how many people who have these super long locks have, shall I say, extremely textured hair down the full shaft?

Of course, not everybody of any race CAN have super long hair...there's a genetic factor. However, many more Black people can have it than we see that do.

I do believe that African textured hair has some unique issues, but I simply don't believe that it's so weak and fragile as people like to claim. Most of those who are always talking about breakage do alot to their hair. It's not just breaking off on it's own.

It's not just doing stuff to the hair, it's combing in particular. At least for me. All the hair I lose, I lose during combing. Dreadlocks don't have to be combed. Loose hair does.

I so want to get in your hair, Mwedzi. SO. WANT.

You and everybody else! I know, I know, everyone else has the magic comb and magic conditioner to make my hair behave 'properly'. One of these days I'm actually gonna visit one of y'all and show you. Then I'm going to make you come back to LHCF and say "it's everything she said it was".

 

[jamaraa]

^^^ Many people w/ loose hair DON'T comb either, at least on this site. I know I have to or I'll actually lose more hair in the long run. I think it depends on the person's hair and the comb they use, if they do comb.

The most breakage from many people I've ever seen came from braids, esp. those micros. I tried them once, for 2 days...never again! Breakage wasn't the issue there for me, but scalp. I was careful about removing them tho.

Many people w/ dreads do stuff like constant twisting and using crochet hooks. That HAS to have some breakage using crochet hooks. LOL..they break/fray yarn all the time. My hair would be .000003 inches if I constantly twisted it.

 

[anon123]

^^^ Many people w/ loose hair DON'T comb either, at least on this site. I know I have to or I'll actually lose more hair in the long run. I think it depends on the person's hair and the comb they use, if they do comb.

The most breakage from many people I've ever seen came from braids, esp. those micros. I tried them once, for 2 days...never again! Breakage wasn't the issue there for me, but scalp. I was careful about removing them tho.

Many people w/ dreads do stuff like constant twisting and using crochet hooks. That HAS to have some breakage using crochet hooks. LOL..they break/fray yarn all the time. My hair would be .000003 inches if I constantly twisted it.

Are you locked? Or do you mean twisting loose hair? I agree about the micros. Tore my mother's hair up. You have to be really careful with them and not abuse them. Anyway, I too, can't avoid combing. Well, that's not entirely true. I can, but it involves staying in protective styles 100% of the time and using my fingers in place of the comb, which takes a lot longer than combing. And I still get breakage during detangling, but not nearly as much.