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The Type 4, High Porosity Hangout

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BlackMasterPiece

BlackMasterPiece

Well-Known Member
Its always great to hear a product/technique worked for someone, but knowing someone with your exact hair type had success with something is especially helpful.

Please include which type 4 you are and your strand thickness with your posts so we can all find hair type twins in here:grin:

Here are some questions to get us started:

What are your staples/holy grails?
What gives you the best curl definition?
Whats your favorite
  • Gel
  • moisturizer
  • DC
  • leave in
  • Oils
  • edge control
  • shampoo
  • co-wash
What have been your most effective length retention methods?

Lets chat about products and techniques that have been working for us and share new discoveries!
 
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I'll start with some of my staples:

Hair Type: 4b penspring coils, coarse strands

What are your staples/holy grails?

Shea Moisture High Porosity Hair Masque, Tresemme Botanique, Kirkland Moisturizing Shampoo/Conditioner, Pantene Pro-V Co-Wash, Whipped Shea Butter, EVOO, Coconut, Almond, Castor and Grapeseed Oils, AVG, Honey, Henna​

What gives you the best curl definition?

The only time I've achieved coil definition is recently when i drenched my hair with a spray bottle and followed it up with gobs of conditioner, but that only lasts so long as my hair is drenched lol gonna try this approach next time I attempt a wash n go with gel to see if it helps, kinda like the Anthony Dicky method, hope it works!​

Whats your favorite
  • Gel - Haven't found one that works yet or maybe I havent tried a technique that works yet, we shall see
  • moisturizer - aforementioned conditioners, oils and butters, the thicker/heavier the better AVG/AVJ
  • DC - SM HiPo masque
  • leave in - only AVJ so far
  • Oils - Coconut, Almond, Castor and Grapeseed Oils
  • edge control - Have yet to discover one that actually lasts on me, only thing that works for me is plain water and a headband and allowing that to dry
  • shampoo - kirkland moisturizing
  • co-wash - Pantene Pro-V, Tresemme Botanique
What has been your most effective length retention methods?

Washing/Conditioning/DCing in 10 neat twists, Maintaining stretched hair weather that be via twists, bantu knots, blowdrying or african threading.​

Whats been working for you?
 
Last edited:
nyeredzi said:
quick question. are people still using the float test to determine porosity?
Click to expand...
Many are, there seem to be several ways to determine porosity, I'm basing my porosity on the behavior of my hair which seems to correspond to the descriptions of hipo hair ie. it absorbs moisture easily and loses it just as easily, it absorbs products readily even without heat, loves protein like henna or aphogee, loves aloe vera etc. I tried the float test once and couldn't get a conclusive answer, I might try it again.
 
BlackMasterPiece said:
@YvetteWithJoy Thanks so much for mentioning SM HiPo Masque in the wetline thread, thats what inspired me to try it and it was the best DC I've ever tried!
Click to expand...

You're more than welcome. :yep: Yes: That DC is ah-mazing. It was my first holy grail product.

Also: I'm finding that DevaCurl Decadence One Condition defines my curls like nobody's business!!! I know that 4a (my type) is different than 4b particularly definition-wise, but if you haven't tried it and have a friend or something who has some, you might give it a try!

BlackMasterPiece said:
Many are, there seem to be several ways to determine porosity, I'm basing my porosity on the behavior of my hair which seems to correspond to the descriptions of hipo hair ie. it absorbs moisture easily and loses it just as easily, it absorbs products readily even without heat, loves protein like henna or aphogee, loves aloe vera etc. I tried the float test once and couldn't get a conclusive answer, I might try it again.
Click to expand...

Wow. I need to try henna-ing asap. How do you use it? How often? What are your results? TIA!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
You're more than welcome. :yep: Yes: That DC is ah-mazing. It was my first holy grail product.
Click to expand...
Yes! I raved to my bestie about it and she was like yea, all SM DC's are on point, I was like damn, guess I'm late to the party lol

Also: I'm finding that DevaCurl Decadence One Condition defines my curls like nobody's business!!! I know that 4a (my type) is different than 4b particularly definition-wise, but if you haven't tried it and have a friend or something who has some, you might give it a try!
Click to expand...
Yes I've been hearing so many great things about DevaCurl and I've seen awesome results on IG, a bit pricey but I'll definitely give it a try eventually:up: hope I can achieve the similar results.

Wow. I need to try henna-ing asap. How do you use it? How often? What are your results? TIA!
Click to expand...
Yes I was blown away when I tried it, I buy the big 500 gram bag of Nupur from the Indian shop which has a mix of henna + a bunch of Ayurvedic powders and then I just use like 4-5 cans of coconut milk, that makes a huge bowl then I pour it into ice cube trays and I have enough for like 6-7 + generously applied treatments. I leave it on for at least 4 hrs, sometimes overnight if I'm being really gung-ho. Its so strengthening and conditioning, way better more lasting results then Aphogee, I do it once a month when I'm on point, I've been lazy so its been a few months since I last did it but my hair actually feels really good right now.
 
I'm in this for sure! Glad to see this. My hair suffered a setback so starting over (I was approaching MBL, sigh). My hair loves protein. My hair is crocheted and probably will be for the foreseeable future, but wanting to take care of it while it's in hiding.

Will come back with a regimen since I don't have one right now :look:
 
Shampoo: Elucence Moisture Benefits, Jessicurl Gentle Lather, Devacurl No Poo Decadence

Conditioner: Kenra Moisturizing Conditioner, Jessicurl Deep Conditioning Treatment, Devacurl One Condition Decadence

Leave In: Jessicurl Too Shea Extra Moisturizing Conditioner, Coconut Oil

Gel: Curl Goddess Curls Botanical Gellie (for edges sometimes with doo rag to get that wavy look)

Best curl definition? Braid outs (I'm not about that wash and go life! hair's too long, thick and kinky = knot city)

What have been your most effective length retention methods?
Wash, condition, comb out and air dry in 15-20 braids about every 2-3 weeks.
Moisturize my situation every 1-2 days by re-braiding in 12 braids after misting section with water and sealing with coconut oil on length and Shea Butter on ends
 
kodochax said:
Pretty much just type 4, high porosity. If your fine/medium/coarse, 4a/4b/4c we could just state that or put it in our signatures.
Click to expand...
Hmm you have a good point, now you have me wondering about the coarse specification in my title:lol: imma just leave it for now, since I opened it up to people that have 2 outta the 3 traits in the OP:yep: I think it definitely makes sense for everything to be centralized.
janiebaby said:
Thanks girl! :kiss: I just picked up a jug from my BSS. About to do a wash and go :yep:
Click to expand...
You're welcome :rose: I picked up a jar with the clear lid and based on the thread and how much the specified the green lid I'm not sure if I got the right one:sad: might have to swing back by that BSS lol
 
Last updated Sept 5, 2016 at 3:36 PM CST

I'm still in the process of researching and learning some of the answers to these questions, so I'll share what I know/feel as of now and then update as I learn more.

1. What are the characteristics of your hair?

-- Fine strands
-- Highly densely concentrated
-- 4a with some 4b 3c in the front
-- Ear-length when unstretched . . . various lengths when stretched (collar-bone, shoulder-length, near armpit-length, etc.)

2. What gives you the best curl definition?
The ONLY products I have found so far that actually take my undefined hair and define it are the DevaCurl Decadence No Poo and One Condition.

For curl definition, major, major protein and moisture do it for my hair. So for curl definition it is important that I avoid shampooing (i.e. that I shampoo only around once a month) to maintain higher hydration levels.

3. What is your go-to hair style?

Wash-and-go despite having fine strands. When protective styling, my go-to is crochet braids.

I tried twist-outs, and it was too much mechanical manipulation (twisting and then retwisting), just to end up looking like a wash-and-go in a few days anyway.

4. What are your favorite tools?

Wet Brush (I got mine from Target) for detangling, Ouchless athletic bands and baby headbands for banding my hair, and my diffuser when I don't want to air dry.

I have some Wave Formers (wavy-shaped curl formers) that I will try sooner or later, and I am investing in a standing steamer soon.

5. What did you do to your hair on your best hair day ever?

I've had three really, really, really good hair days.

-- First one: When I was an uber-newbie, I bought the Naturally Silk Elements Moisture Renewal kit from Sally's. I had no idea what I was doing. But somehow, my hair looked AWESOME when I was done. Elongated, moisturized . . . just pretty. I think I put too much product in my hair, though. My hair was dripping water/oil!!!

-- Second one: I got a wash-and-go by Angela Hicks in Dallas. Man: She only used DevaCurl One Condition and Uncle Funky's Daughter Curly Magic (because I told her my main issue was that I wanted elongation; she usually uses DevaCurl gel, I believe), and that wash-and-go was stunning! Lasted 3 days (probably could have lasted many more), and was defined and long and compliment-garnering everywhere I went. I keep trying to replicate it. YouTuber Janelle made me feel a little better about not being able to produce the same level of a wash-and-go as a professional stylist, because I was feeling SOME KIND OF WAY about having rushed out there and bought that Curly Magic, only to get so-so results. :smile:

--Third one: I accomplished this one recently, by myself! I co-washed with the Shea Moisture Hipo Masque, moisturized with Oyin Hair Dew leave-in, styled with DevaCurl Ultra Defining gel (mainly scrunched, not raked), and added a little grapeseed oil for sheen. I have no idea why it looked so good. I have yet to be able to replicate it exactly.

6. What's your favorite product for the following categories? If you don't mind, please type "holy grail" or "staple" in parentheses after the product name if your favorite has reached holy grail or staple status.
  • gel: Camille Rose Naturals Curl Maker. There are quite a few more gels I'd like to trial, but this one does a great job.
  • moisturizer: Oyin Hair Dew . . . but I don't like the smell and often use (repurpose) DevaCurl Decadence One Condition instead (results are close to the Hair Dew's)
  • deep conditioner: So far I haven't found a favorite DC for infusing long-lasting moisture, but I looooooooooooooooooove NaturelleGrow's protein-free Marshmallow, Slippery Elm, and Cinnamon Deep conditioner for detangling . . . and I loooooooooooooooove Shea Moisture's hipo masque for just EVERYTHING: elongating, softening, detangling, in-the-moment moisturizing, etc. BOTH HAVE HOLY GRAIL STATUS. :trophy: :trophy:
  • leave-in: Oyin Hair Dew . . . but I don't like the smell and often use (repurpose) DevaCurl Decadence One Condition instead (results are close to the Hair Dew's)
  • oils: jojoba oil is my favorite sealant. HAS HOLY GRAIL STATUS. :trophy: I also love using a 1:1:1 mix of raw and undefined coconut oil, light extra virgin olive oil, and castor oil as an overnight prepoo and growth stimulator
  • edge control: I don't control my edges! LOL!
  • shampoo: I like DevaCurl's Decadence No Poo. I am grateful for the ORS Creamy Aloe Shampoo for its chelating and clarifying properties.
  • conditioner: DevaCurl Decadence One Condition. HAS HOLY GRAIL STATUS. :trophy:
  • co-wash: still looking for a favorite (I'm going to check out Anabelle's PefectBlends Agave Blue Cleansing Conditioner, as I've heard it's good and foams)
  • other: Moroccan rhassoul clay washes are AWESOME for cleansing, detoxifying, and detangling . . . and for cleansing apart from shampooing, which I've learned I should do maybe once or twice a month if I want to maintain hydration
7. What have been your most effective length retention methods?

Wearing crochet installs and using an applicator bottle with a tip to take care of my cornrows underneath

8. How do you reduce knot/tangle formation? How do you detangle?

How I reduce knots/tangles: I think I can do this if I band at night, but I haven't done it yet. So far I try to reduce major knotting and tangling by lightly finger detangling in between full detangling sessions (please see link below for details).

How I detangle: With fine, hipo, 4a hair, you know detangling is sumpin' surrus! Here's a very detailed account of how I detangle: https://longhaircareforum.com/threa...ctive-wisdom-as-of-2016.796885/#post-22965475

9. What have been your biggest challenges in caring for and/or styling your hair, and how did you overcome them (or how are you overcoming them)?

Tangling and SSKs, lack of curl definition at my roots, and shrinkage are my biggest challenges.

Addressing tangling and SSKs: I try to finger detangle in between full detangling sessions. I use an AMAZING detangling agent: NaturelleGrow's Protein-free Marshmallow, Slippery Elm, and Cinnamon Deep Conditioner. I plan to start banding at night to see if that helps reduce knots and tangles.

Addressing lack of curl definition at my roots: DevaCurl Decadence No Poo and One Condition seems to have solved this problem! Yay!

Addressing shrinkage: Ever since I gave myself a deep protein treatment, my hair has coiled (read "shrunken") even more! It won't loosen again, it doesn't seem. Maybe this level of shrunkenness is what my hair looks like when healthy? I plan to try henna-ing to see if that helps. In the meanwhile, I'm trying to embrace the shrinkage and style with shrinkage in my mind, making my hair style as cute as I can.
 
Last edited:
I may revisit SM...i just remember a few yrs back noticing that every product smelled the same and I hated that scent

Im a newbie to doing my hair myself so Im taking notes for now...

Adding devacurl shampoo and condish to my list for next pay period.
 
I've been promising @YvetteWithJoy my list since forever! I apologize honey, I recently received a promotion and have been swamped.

Here are my hair specs:

4a/3C fine, high porosity, VERY dense. I give the appearance of thick hair, but I just have tons of fine strands.

I have little to no root definition, my hair looks like 4a clouds...lol. I would consider it to be spongy. Super tangly, SSKs galore, breaks easily, and of course moisture retention issues.

Holy Grail
100% Silk Scarf - DO NOT. I REPEAT DO NOT sleep on this. (Well actually you do need to sleep on it ! :giggle:)
Silk scarves LOCK the moisture in your hair.
They changed the game for me so much. I was using satin, but after using silk. I will never go back. My hair so much more soft and manageable. I'm actually noticing less SSKs!!
SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Hair Masque ( It's for fine hair and my goodness takes my hait to the next level)
APB Refresher Sprays
Oyin Handmade Hair Dew
Qhemet Biologics Burdock Root Butter Cream
Qhemet Biologics Olive &Honey Hydrating Balm ( I use this alone or to add kick to "just okay" or good products, this takes them up a notch)
Komaza Protein Strengthener
Ion Hard Water Shampoo (Sally's brand)
JBCO
Avocado Oil
Veggie Glycerin
Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner ( RIP )

Great Products
Joico Moisture Recovery Treatment Balm ( Has a ph of 3-4.5) My hair likes low ph products. Super soft moisturized hair.
Camille Rose Naturals Curl Maker
Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter
Deva Curl One Condition
S-Curl (Don't knock it)
Living Proof Restore Conditioner - (After 1 use it is on the great list, after much usage..I expect it to be bumped to HG status.)
ORS hair Mayonnaise
SheaMoisture High Porosity Moisture Seal Mask
SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Creme Rinse
SheaMoisture Peace Rose Oil Complex Nourish and Silken Conditioner

**************************************************************************************
Shea Moisture 10 in 1 Renewal ( stuck between being good and great)
Shea Moisture Honey Manuka Honey and Mafura Oil Mask ( stuck between being good and great)
Silicon Mix ( stuck between being good and great)
Soultanicals Marula-Muru Moisture Guru - Awesome mositure, not sure how to incorporate it. ( stuck between being good and great)
******************************************************************************************
Good Products
Maple Holistsics Silk 18
SheScentIt Coco Creme Leave In
SheaMoisture Superfruit Multi Vitamin Leave In Detangler
Kanechom
Soultanicals Afrotastic Curl Elastic Deep Conditioner
SheScentit Honey Buttercream Moisturizer
SheScentit marshmallow herbal cream
 
Last edited:
cutiepiebabygirl said:
I've been promising @YvetteWithJoy my list since forever! I apologize honey, I recently received a promotion and have been swamped.

Here are my hair specs:

4a/3C fine, high porosity, VERY dense. I give the appearance of thick hair, but I just have tons of fine strands.

I have little to no root definition, my hair looks like 4a clouds...lol. I would consider it to be spongy. Super tangly, SSKs galore, breaks easily, and of course moisture retention issues.

Holy Grail
100% Silk Scarf - DO NOT. I REPEAT DO NOT sleep on this. Silk scarves LOCK the moisture in your hair.
They changed the game for me so much. I was using satin, but after using silk. I will never go back. My hair so much more soft and manageable. I'm actually noticing less SSKs!!
SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Hair Masque ( It's for fine hair and my goodness takes my hait to the next level)
APB Refresher Sprays
Oyin Handmade Hair Dew
Qhemet Biologics Burdock Root Butter Cream
Qhemet Biologics Olive &Honey Hydrating Balm ( I use this alone or to add kick to "just okay" or good products, this takes them up a notch)
Komaza Protein Strengthener
Ion Hard Water Shampoo (Sally's brand)
JBCO
Avocado Oil
Veggie Glycerin
Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner ( RIP )

Great Products
Joico Moisture Recovery Treatment Balm ( Has a ph of 3-4.5) My hair likes low ph products. Super soft moisturized hair.
Camille Rose Naturals Curl Maker
Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter
Deva Curl One Condition
S-Curl (Don't knock it)
Living Proof Restore Conditioner - (After 1 use it is on the great list, after much usage..I expect it to be bumped to HG status.)
ORS hair Mayonnaise
SheaMoisture High Porosity Moisture Seal Mask
SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Creme Rinse
SheaMoisture Peace Rose Oil Complex Nourish and Silken Conditioner

**************************************************************************************
Shea Moisture 10 in 1 Renewal ( stuck between being good and great)
Shea Moisture Honey Manuka Honey and Mafura Oil Mask ( stuck between being good and great)
Silicon Mix ( stuck between being good and great)
Soultanicals Marula-Muru Moisture Guru - Awesome mositure, not sure how to incorporate it. ( stuck between being good and great)
******************************************************************************************
Good Products
Maple Holistsics Silk 18
SheScentIt Coco Creme Leave In
SheaMoisture Superfruit Multi Vitamin Leave In Detangler
Kanechom
Soultanicals Afrotastic Curl Elastic Deep Conditioner
SheScentit Honey Buttercream Moisturizer
SheScentit marshmallow herbal cream
Click to expand...

Woooooooo hoooooooo! Hair twin, THANK YOU! :kiss:

:wiggle:

Wow! You have identified so many holy grails! :woot:

ETA:

"Do not sleep on this!" :look: :laugh:
 
Last edited:
What are your staples/holy grails?

Long arse list posted already - LOL

What gives you the best curl definition?

Banana Baby Food
Clays Rhassoul or Moroccan Red Clay
Maple Holistsics Silk 18
Camille Rose Curl Maker
Silicon Mix
Routine use of a quality protein

Whats your favorite
  • Gel - Camille Rose Curl Maker
  • DC - SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Hair Masque
  • leave in - APB Refresher Sprays combined with Oyin Hair Dew
  • Oils - Castor and Avocado Oil
  • Edge control - Any gel...lol (my edges are the one part of my hair that cooperates)
  • shampoo Sally's Ion Hard Water Shampoo
  • co-wash - Several....
What have been your most effective length retention methods?

Protective Styling

Frequent Dusting /trims - I have fine hair, it's not a matter of if it will break, it's when. It's a characteristic of my hair. No matter how careful I am, I will get some form of breakage, knots. fraying. My hair is sensitive. LOL. I accept it. I do frequent S&D. My hair grows well and thanks me for it.

Whats been working for you?

Reducing the steps in my LLOC method.

Apply my leave-in and then mix my products (cocktail) together and apply at once.
I have fine, dense hair. So I need more than your average fine haired girl, but less than a thicker haired natural.
This is always tricky, too little and my hair is not moisturized, too much and I look like a wet poodle. LOL
Since it could be hit or miss, I started combing products not to over-moisturize and apply them at once.

I'll do a quarter sized amount of each product and mix and then apply to may hair. **Adding more if needed**
It's been working well so far.

Currently testing:

Henna ( I did a Hen-Digo treatment Saturday and it looks promising).

Shea Moisture Salon Professional Baotein Precious Oils Complex Recovery Cocktail Mix (Haven't tried yet).
 
cutiepiebabygirl said:
What are your staples/holy grails?

Long arse list posted already - LOL

What gives you the best curl definition?

Banana Baby Food
Clays Rhassoul or Moroccan Red Clay
Maple Holistsics Silk 18
Camille Rose Curl Maker
Silicon Mix
Routine use of a quality protein

Whats your favorite
  • Gel - Camille Rose Curl Maker
  • DC - SheaMoisture Fruit Fusion Coconut Water Weightless Hair Masque
  • leave in - APB Refresher Sprays combined with Oyin Hair Dew
  • Oils - Castor and Avocado Oil
  • Edge control - Any gel...lol (my edges are the one part of my hair that cooperates)
  • shampoo Sally's Ion Hard Water Shampoo
  • co-wash - Several....
What have been your most effective length retention methods?

Protective Styling

Frequent Dusting /trims - I have fine hair, it's not a matter of if it will break, it's when. It's a characteristic of my hair. No matter how careful I am, I will get some form of breakage, knots. fraying. My hair is sensitive. LOL. I accept it. I do frequent S&D. My hair grows well and thanks me for it.

Whats been working for you?

Reducing the steps in my LLOC method.

Apply my leave-in and then mix my products (cocktail) together and apply at once.
I have fine, dense hair. So I need more than your average fine haired girl, but less than a thicker haired natural.
This is always tricky, too little and my hair is not moisturized, too much and I look like a wet poodle. LOL
Since it could be hit or miss, I started combing products not to over-moisturize and apply them at once.

I'll do a quarter sized amount of each product and mix and then apply to may hair. **Adding more if needed**
It's been working well so far.

Currently testing:

Henna ( I did a Hen-Digo treatment Saturday and it looks promising).

Shea Moisture Salon Professional Baotein Precious Oils Complex Recovery Cocktail Mix (Haven't tried yet).
Click to expand...

I can't tell you HOW MUCH IT HELPS to read this:
"I have fine hair, it's not a matter of if it will break, it's when. It's a characteristic of my hair. No matter how careful I am, I will get some form of breakage, knots. fraying. My hair is sensitive. LOL. I accept it. I do frequent S&D. My hair grows well and thanks me for it."

Hugs!

And thanks so much, @BlackMasterPiece, for starting this thread!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
I can't tell you HOW MUCH IT HELPS to read this:
"I have fine hair, it's not a matter of if it will break, it's when. It's a characteristic of my hair. No matter how careful I am, I will get some form of breakage, knots. fraying. My hair is sensitive. LOL. I accept it. I do frequent S&D. My hair grows well and thanks me for it."

Hugs!

And thanks so much, @BlackMasterPiece, for starting this thread!
Click to expand...

Glad to help!!

I had to come to this realization when I was relaxed. I was doing everything perfectly. It was so frustrating, I couldn't understand why I would get split/ fraying. I was getting trims, avoiding heat, protective styling, using protein, dc'ing, not over-manipulating. It was infuriating.

I started trimming on a frequent schedule and S&D in between, my hair flourished. Some people can go months without trimming/dusting, but for me I have to constantly do small trims/dusts. Funny thing is it never seems to impede my growth.

Being natural has been harder than being relaxed, because now I have the dreaded knots, but slowly, surely, I'm getting this "hair" together!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
@cutiepiebabygirl, banana baby food? As in the tiny little jars I used to purchase for my little guy? DO TELL! What brand did you use? What did you use before and after the banana baby food? How long did you leave it in?

:pop:
Click to expand...

I tried the water only washing thing for awhile and one of the things you could use was banana baby food.
I used Gerber in the plastic containers.

I slathered it all over my head and let it sit for 2 hours. As soon as you remove your plastic cap, your hair will be suuuuuuuuuppper defined.

If I did a wash n go, I'd oil rinse/cowash (doing my best not to disrupt the curls) and apply my gel in the shower. I never perfected this routine though. I only wear wash n go's every 6 months.
 
cutiepiebabygirl said:
I tried the water only washing thing for awhile and one of the things you could use was banana baby food.
I used Gerber in the plastic containers.

I slathered it all over my head and let it sit for 2 hours. As soon as you remove your plastic cap, your hair will be suuuuuuuuuppper defined.

If I did a wash n go, I'd oil rinse/cowash (doing my best not to disrupt the curls) and apply my gel in the shower. I never perfected this routine though. I only wear wash n go's every 6 months.
Click to expand...

FASCINATING!!!
 
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