called "NAPPY HEADED & KINKY" by employers ..... any options?

[iri9109]

we all know her supervisor didnt mean nappy as in tightly curled or coiled, even if thats what the word means...it was meant in a derogative way, and thats not how a supervisor should talk to an employee.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

I think it was all to casually mentioned with no background, I understand anybody wanting to help or defend the situation

I also think she can get in trouble for casually mentioning it on the internet, since some ppl will know where she works and can prove it's her saying it.....I'm really not sure how that would work tho

I understand the frustration, but also this seems to be a bit of internalizing going on. It's wrong(the situation), but to be depressed....well I don't know. I do know I would be Irate tho, let someone say something out of line about my hair The union would be doing something.....I wouldnt be depressed tho

nappy is relative, some would call any black person's hair nappy, wrong yes, but would we get depressed or mad? Me keeping in context of how it was meant, if it was truly meant racially-man forget that, I would do professional report to every union rep and the higher ups. Maybe someone can tell her that....whistle blower like a mugg.....someone would be doing something. If she feels helpless, she has to know this can't continue, I would not go around the supervisor without a witness and would ask the union to make it be that way.

girl i agreee... what i'm seeing right now in a (clinical settings) are tons of people feeling HELPLESS....and again later DEPRESSED only to show later as SI all stemming from job stress and the economy

to come on camera and express that you feel helpless about a personal situation is normally not a first step in mentally processing this.... yet often a subtle cry out (releasing stress, or worse)

I've seen a great many (in the clinical setting) become suicidal over the past year from job stressors SNOWBALLED with economy financial burdens + any normal stressors we all me embrace

events turn over so quickly, people would be surprised

 

[kmn1980]

we all know her supervisor didnt mean nappy as in tightly curled or coiled, even if thats what the word means...it was meant in a derogative way, and thats not how a supervisor should talk to an employee.

Thank you. Some of these responses are like Riverdance.

 

[dancinstallion]

I just believe when people say nappy headed to you they are using it a negative. They are trying to degrade you and make a joke.
my hair is nappy and kinky but I get offended if someone went out of there way to point that out to me just like if someone went out of their way to call me ugly, fat, ignorant etc.

I agree with you Nonie about nappy hair but I haven't accepted it yet and it is on the same level as Ninja to me...... for now.

In short, taking someone to court for calling them "nappy-headed" or "kinky-haired" I don't think would take one very far, unless the judge was someone who is still haunted by the history of when nappy was synonymous with unkempt. But then of course, if the hair does look messy then by that interpretation, the cap would fit so how would the "victim" defend herself. Incidentally, can someone take another to court for being told she doesn't look smart when she herself thinks she does? I mean, isn't this is like being called ugly when you yourself think you are good-looking. I guess all these can fall under "harassment" but unless one has a very good legal team, I think it's a long shot unless one can prove it causes a lot of distress and affects work performance.*shrug*

I think the YTer would feel less offended if she realized that the words are not insulting. Unless 4B hair is so ugly to her that she doesn't want to be associated with it, then I don't see how being called nappy-headed (like me) or kinky-haired (like me) is offensive.

 

[JerriBlank]

She said she only started wearing a scarf last week,and has been dealing with the Hispanic supervisor's comments since February. She seemed close to tears to me. We all handle things differently,and while I couldn't care less about some of my white coworkers talking about my naps,she may not be able to handle similar comments about hers,and why should she? Why is it okay for kinky haired folks to start being singled out at work anyway? Whatever. I however,wouldn't jeopardize my employment over my hair,and I hope she finds a way to deal with her boss and her meant to be snarky comments.
Oh,and she also mentions previously taking down twists before work,so its not like she was not doing her hair.

 

[Irresistible]

girl i agreee... what i'm seeing right now in a (clinical settings) are tons of people feeling HELPLESS....and again later DEPRESSED only to show later as SI all stemming from job stress and the economy

to come on camera and express that you feel helpless about a personal situation is normally not a first step in mentally processing this.... yet often a subtle cry out (releasing stress, or worse)

I've seen a great many (in the clinical setting) become suicidal over the past year from job stressors SNOWBALLED with economy financial burdens + any normal stressors we all me embrace

events turn over so quickly, people would be surprised

Both your intent on bringing this up and bringing it to light here was pure :Rose: I know that-you have a big feeling heart , nothing wrong with that

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

^^^^ girl i guess empathy is a hard one for some

laughing b/c i know a professor who recently said she's reading a book that's teaching her how to be empathetic
and yet's she's been practicing medicine for 20 yrs:

 

[Irresistible]

^^^^ girl i guess empathy is a hard one for some

laughing b/c one of my old professors said she reading a book that's teaching her how to be empathetic
and yet's she's been practicing medicine for 20 yrs:

oh bad doc, or maybe good doc with very bad bedside manner, I wonder if you can get it from a book?

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

oh bad doc, or maybe good doc with very bad bedside manner, I wonder if you can get it from a book?

no!

 

[EllePixie]

Oh my...well...a few things -

- Yes, she is a member here
- I've met her IRL and no, she isn't sloppy for those of you wondering
- She made her screen name before she started doing videos (lol), and YT won't let you change your name, you have to make a new account and all that mess.

You know what's sad? A LOT of people (of all races) use the word nappy/kinky and have NO IDEA that it could be offensive. I promise you. Personally, I have no issue with kinky, but I don't like the word nappy, as I have ALWAYS associated it with unkempt hair, even when I had a relaxer. When my hair was dry and tangled from swimming or something, I always called it nappy, even when it was bone straight. I was talking to an ex the other week and I said something about my hair, and he said, "Well it's nappy and hard to manage because you're black, right?" He said this matter-of-factly, and seriously had NO idea that what he said was WAY out of pocket until I politely corrected him. Where do you think he got that term from? When I went home, I made a comment about hair typing and my brother said, "Well wouldn't your hair type just be nappy?" and no, he wasn't making a joke or trying to insult me. He seriously thought that this was an acceptable way to describe one's hair.

In the video, she didn't really go into detail about how they talk about her hair (like, do they just make a comment, or is it making jokes/jeers? Does she know they frown on it, or is it just because they call it nappy/kinky?), or if she has expressed her dislike from those terms (Did she? I was reading responses and listening at the same time, so if I missed that, I apologize). Anytime someone says something about my hair I don't like, I kindly tell them not to refer to my lovely hair in that manner, and if they want to call THEIR hair xyz, they are welcome to it. And yes, I would tell my boss this, and I work in a corporate environment. You don't have to go Mama Africa on someone every time they make an annoying natural hair comment. And I know that she said that they talked about her hair before she wore the scarf, but I would NEVER wear a scarf to work. NEVER. I understand that we are all into hair care and like to do things like undercover baggy and DC, but come on...I can DC when I get home, I'm not doing that at work.

 

[Vashti]

I don't know what her exact situation is but I have some people on my job who don't like my natural hair and they can kiss my behind. However, if she has a supervisor constantly harassing her over her hair texture that's something that she needs to get the union involved in. She needs to document each and every encounter and get a lawyer. If hair texture is viewed as unprofessional regardless of whether your hair is polished looking or not that's a problem with the rules that needs some correction.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

There is a new video on the topic, which does not explain the situation any further but it does mention that the supervisor making the comments is a woman, not a man as some of us thought.

YouTube - Disappointed: SheScentIt Kiwi Kiss Hair Butter & mini rant on Hair Hatred

 

[Nonie]

Oh my...well...a few things -

- Yes, she is a member here
- I've met her IRL and no, she isn't sloppy for those of you wondering
- She made her screen name before she started doing videos (lol), and YT won't let you change your name, you have to make a new account and all that mess.

You know what's sad? A LOT of people (of all races) use the word nappy/kinky and have NO IDEA that it could be offensive. I promise you. Personally, I have no issue with kinky, but I don't like the word nappy, as I have ALWAYS associated it with unkempt hair, even when I had a relaxer. When my hair was dry and tangled from swimming or something, I always called it nappy, even when it was bone straight. I was talking to an ex the other week and I said something about my hair, and he said, "Well it's nappy and hard to manage because you're black, right?" He said this matter-of-factly, and seriously had NO idea that what he said was WAY out of pocket until I politely corrected him. Where do you think he got that term from? When I went home, I made a comment about hair typing and my brother said, "Well wouldn't your hair type just be nappy?" and no, he wasn't making a joke or trying to insult me. He seriously thought that this was an acceptable way to describe one's hair.

In the video, she didn't really go into detail about how they talk about her hair (like, do they just make a comment, or is it making jokes/jeers? Does she know they frown on it, or is it just because they call it nappy/kinky?), or if she has expressed her dislike from those terms (Did she? I was reading responses and listening at the same time, so if I missed that, I apologize). Anytime someone says something about my hair I don't like, I kindly tell them not to refer to my lovely hair in that manner, and if they want to call THEIR hair xyz, they are welcome to it. And yes, I would tell my boss this, and I work in a corporate environment. You don't have to go Mama Africa on someone every time they make an annoying natural hair comment. And I know that she said that they talked about her hair before she wore the scarf, but I would NEVER wear a scarf to work. NEVER. I understand that we are all into hair care and like to do things like undercover baggy and DC, but come on...I can DC when I get home, I'm not doing that at work.

This may come off as very odd, but I find it sad that people get offended by the word "nappy". I really do. I feel as sad as I do that some black people hate to be called "black". Some of you may scoff at that last line, but it is very real for those who find being called "black" derogatory because to them their skin is brown. I feel sad because I am so proud to be black. I don't view that word as bad. Even with all the history of the word "black" being used to talk about all things negative (except maybe the state of a bank account) and white to describe things positive, I still have never felt an aversion to being called a black person.

I understand why nappy is associated with unkempt hair. There was a time when having nappy hair meant you had no choice but to have unkempt hair. It wasn't because the hair was unkempt that it was nappy, it was because it was nappy that it was unkempt. Nappy meaning "having tight curls" --and that is the true meaning of the word nappy. Tight curls that would not allow fine-tooth combs--the only combs available then--to go through and groom the mane. And that lack of grooming led to unkempt hair. Then--way back then--it was not nice for anyone to call your hair nappy because if you had nappy hair, it was without doubt unkempt. For those who haven't seen the movie 400 Years Without a Comb, I implore you to watch it and you'll understand what I'm talking about. I will give a link to it at the end of this post.

So yes, it saddens me that certain things can be so ingrained in our people that we cannot even stop to think rationally about them, no matter how intelligent and educated we are. I know some will want to stone me for this, but it is a fact, that we choose to remain in ignorance if the meaning of a word is as clear as day and we continue to use it incorrectly, just because there was a time it implied that. So effin what if the next person uses it wrongly? Why must we drink from the same cesspool?

There was a time when being black implied you couldn't speak good English or read or do many of the things we are free to do today and do them as well as we do them today. So perhaps back then, there might've been a few who wished they hadn't been born black so they could have had what others had.

But what reason is there today to want to remove oneself from what is true about one? Yes, there are people who will never like your skin color or your hair texture but a rose by any other name will still smell sweet. So running away from words that describe you because of misunderstandings/misconceptions of old and letting those who'd love nothing more than to see you cringe succeed, when there are enough resources and free access to them today to clear things up for you and confirm that what you've been told over the years has been a lie (namely, confirm that nappy doesn't mean unkempt) to me is just.... (Words fail me!)

I am African, and I know there are people who consider it not cool to be African. But it is what it is. I am who I am. So just because some people associate being African with being backward or primitive, will I buy into that bullsh** and take offense whenever someone uses it as an insult or will I enlighten myself about what being African means and who Africans are so that the next time someone uses it to insult me, it rolls off me like mercury?

I have asked this before and I'll ask it again: there are men who look down on women. Everything dumb that is done in life is always some woman's fault. So if they said, "After all, you're just a woman" that would not be meant as a compliment. So suppose you grew up in a culture where women were second-class citizens who had no say and happened to have had those sort of male chauvinists around you all your life--nay, let's even just say you were visiting the village where all that goes on and learned that the word "woman" is used as a derogatory word--would you stop calling yourself "woman" because some ignoramus uses the word as an insult?

The point I am trying to make is NAPPY was never a dirty adjective. It was always a word that described a type of texture made of tight coils. Just because slavery made it out to be a bad thing to have that sort of hair doesn't mean we should continue to buy into that BS when we know very well that tightly coiled hair can be so beautiful and isn't the unkempt mess it once was. Back during slavery days, nappy meant unkempt However, today nappy means hair that, because of its tiny curls and their ability to do so much, is the most versatile hair type there is and can

• be worn in more styles than any other hair
• hold styles better than any other hair
• show off many looks than any other hair depending on what you do to it
• grow long once we stop trying to copy habits of other hair types and embrace it and listen to its needs and none other.

I pray you will open your minds as you watch the movie I mentioned earlier which is linked to in this thread.

 

[Theresamonet]

Hhmm...she's a member here. Makeupvixen or Madeupvixen I think. I recognized that Afroveda price hike video.

 

[EllePixie]

This may come off as very odd, but I find it sad that people get offended by the word "nappy". I really do. I feel as sad as I do that some black people hate to be called "black". Some of you may scoff at that last line, but it is very real for those who find being called "black" derogatory because to them their skin is brown. I feel sad because I am so proud to be black. I don't view that word as bad. Even with all the history of the word "black" being used to talk about all things negative (except maybe the state of a bank account) and white to describe things positive, I still have never felt an aversion to being called a black person.

I understand why nappy is associated with unkempt hair. There was a time when having nappy hair meant you had no choice but to have unkempt hair. It wasn't because the hair was unkempt that it was nappy, it was because it was nappy that it was unkempt. Nappy meaning "having tight curls" --and that is the true meaning of the word nappy. Tight curls that would not allow fine-tooth combs--the only combs available then--to go through and groom the mane. And that lack of grooming led to unkempt hair. Then--way back then--it was not nice for anyone to call your hair nappy because if you had nappy hair, it was without doubt unkempt. For those who haven't seen the movie 400 Years Without a Comb, I implore you to watch it and you'll understand what I'm talking about. I will give a link to it at the end of this post.

So yes, it saddens me that certain things can be so ingrained in our people that we cannot even stop to think rationally about them, no matter how intelligent and educated we are. I know some will want to stone me for this, but it is a fact, that we choose to remain in ignorance if the meaning of a word is as clear as day and we continue to use it incorrectly, just because there was a time it implied that. So effin what if the next person uses it wrongly? Why must we drink from the same cesspool?

There was a time when being black implied you couldn't speak good English or read or do many of the things we are free to do today and do them as well as we do them today. So perhaps back then, there might've been a few who wished they hadn't been born black so they could have had what others had.

But what reason is there today to want to remove oneself from what is true about one? Yes, there are people who will never like your skin color or your hair texture but a rose by any other name will still smell sweet. So running away from words that describe you because of misunderstandings/misconceptions of old and letting those who'd love nothing more than to see you cringe succeed, when there are enough resources and free access to them today to clear things up for you and confirm that what you've been told over the years has been a lie (namely, confirm that nappy doesn't mean unkempt) to me is just.... (Words fail me!)

I am African, and I know there are people who consider it not cool to be African. But it is what it is. I am who I am. So just because some people associate being African with being backward or primitive, will I buy into that bullsh** and take offense whenever someone uses it as an insult or will I enlighten myself about what being African means and who Africans are so that the next time someone uses it to insult me, it rolls off me like mercury?

I have asked this before and I'll ask it again: there are men who look down on women. Everything dumb that is done in life is always some woman's fault. So if they said, "After all, you're just a woman" that would not be meant as a compliment. So suppose you grew up in a culture where women were second-class citizens who had no say and happened to have had those sort of male chauvinists around you all your life--nay, let's even just say you were visiting the village where all that goes on and learned that the word "woman" is used as a derogatory word--would you stop calling yourself "woman" because some ignoramus uses the word as an insult?

The point I am trying to make is NAPPY was never a dirty adjective. It was always a word that described a type of texture made of tight coils. Just because slavery made it out to be a bad thing to have that sort of hair doesn't mean we should continue to buy into that BS when we know very well that tightly coiled hair can be so beautiful and isn't the unkempt mess it once was. Back during slavery days, nappy meant unkempt However, today nappy means hair that, because of its tiny curls and their ability to do so much, is the most versatile hair type there is and can

• be worn in more styles than any other hair
• hold styles better than any other hair
• show off many looks than any other hair depending on what you do to it
• grow long once we stop trying to copy habits of other hair types and embrace it and listen to its needs and none other.

I pray you will open your minds as you watch the movie I mentioned earlier which is linked to in this thread.

Nonie, I see what you are saying (I've also watched that movie), but I'll start accepting the word nappy when people start using it as a compliment - you NEVER hear people say, "I love your hair, it's so nappy!" Actually, when my dad used the word nappy and told me that "if it isn't straight, it's nappy" I had no issue with him using it. So it's really the context rather than the actual word, at least to me. While a lot of people don't use it as a direct insult, they certainly aren't trying to tell you that you have nice hair - nappy and "hard to manage"? Come on...

And my apologies - I should have elaborated on my story with my brother a little bit more. After I told him that my hair wasn't nappy, he said, "Well, I mean, it isn't now, but usually it is naturally, right?" And I looked at him like he was crazy, because I was wearing a wash n go...I told him that that's how my hair does look naturally...and he was like, "Huh? You didn't have to use heat on your hair to get it to look like that?" He thought that I had done something special to turn my "nappy" hair into "nice" hair. Then, because my hair wasn't "nappy" and he is my sibling, he was like, "Hmm, wow, maybe I should grow my hair out if it'll look like that [yes, I told him that even though we are brother and sister our hair may not look the same], can you tell how mine would look, or is it too short?" He has a fade. So...yea, while he wasn't trying to insult me, he certainly wasn't trying to pay me a compliment in using the word.

Oh, one more thing. I definitely agree with you about people not wanting to be called black. That just makes no sense to me.

 

[kmn1980]

but I'll start accepting the word nappy when people start using it as a compliment - you NEVER hear people say, "I love your hair, it's so nappy!"

There it is. Asking someone to accept something directed towards them that is meant to insult or degrade them is completely incomprehensible.

 

[iri9109]

The point I am trying to make is NAPPY was never a dirty adjective. It was always a word that described a type of texture made of tight coils. Just because slavery made it out to be a bad thing to have that sort of hair doesn't mean we should continue to buy into that BS when we know very well that tightly coiled hair can be so beautiful and isn't the unkempt mess it once was. Back during slavery days, nappy meant unkempt However, today nappy means hair that, because of its tiny curls and their ability to do so much, is the most versatile hair type there is and can

i agree with you on the definition of nappy...but just because in the days of slavery nappy meant unkempt, and today nappy can be embraced as a description of tightly curly hair, doesnt mean we should ignore the word when its used it a way that connotes unkempt hair or is meant to describe natural hair in a negative way...some black people embrace the other "N" word, but if a white person called you one (with obvious malicious intent), you're not going to neglect the history of the word just because today some people choose to use it with a non negative connotation. the same goes for nappy...just because it might also describe tightly curled hair, that doesnt take away from the fact that it was and still is used to also negatively connote unkempt/undone/ innapropriate/etc. hair, which is obviously the way in which the lady in the video's supervisor intended it to come across.

 

[Nonie]

Nonie, I see what you are saying (I've also watched that movie), but I'll start accepting the word nappy when people start using it as a compliment - you NEVER hear people say, "I love your hair, it's so nappy!" Actually, when my dad used the word nappy and told me that "if it isn't straight, it's nappy" I had no issue with him using it. So it's really the context rather than the actual word, at least to me. While a lot of people don't use it as a direct insult, they certainly aren't trying to tell you that you have nice hair - nappy and "hard to manage"? Come on...

And my apologies - I should have elaborated on my story with my brother a little bit more. After I told him that my hair wasn't nappy, he said, "Well, I mean, it isn't now, but usually it is naturally, right?" And I looked at him like he was crazy, because I was wearing a wash n go...I told him that that's how my hair does look naturally...and he was like, "Huh? You didn't have to use heat on your hair to get it to look like that?" He thought that I had done something special to turn my "nappy" hair into "nice" hair. Then, because my hair wasn't "nappy" and he is my sibling, he was like, "Hmm, wow, maybe I should grow my hair out if it'll look like that [yes, I told him that even though we are brother and sister our hair may not look the same], can you tell how mine would look, or is it too short?" He has a fade. So...yea, while he wasn't trying to insult me, he certainly wasn't trying to pay me a compliment in using the word.

But that's just what I'm talking about, why will you let people convince you it's a bad word when no legitimate English Reference book describes the word as meaning anymore than "tightly curled". I mean, so many people do not view black people as worthy people. So you going to stop being black too?

I'm not trying to be funny, but the reason your brother uses the word in a way you interpret to be insulting is because he has bought into that theory "nappy = unkempt" which is not true. And actually on re-reading, it sounds like your brother doesn't like combed out hair (or hair that looks frizzy) but likes hair that is spirally. That could be a "good hair/bad hair" bug he's got, or just his preference. And that he describes frizzy hair as nappy is actually not so inaccurate--coz nappy hair when combed out looks frizzy. That he doesn't care for it, is also not wrong. Personal taste is what it is.

I agree 90% of the people who use the word "nappy", use it to mean unkempt/ugly. But they're just ignorant, and of simple minds, because the word does not mean what they think it means. So why will you stoop down to their level of foolery and interpret it the same? There are people who will never think sweet thoughts when they call you black or even think them when they look at you. So what will you do about that? Not everyone who uses nappy uses it as an insult just as not everyone who thinks "black person" thinks it as something unworthy.

I find it so sad that we are so gifted with brains that can learn truth and unlearn misinformation and we instead choose to just be stuck in a rut and not evolve. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, when I first heard David Howard use the word "n.i.g.g.ardly" instead in talking about a budget, I, like a lot of people, was so pissed that he used what I thought was an adverb of the derogatory N word used for blacks. I later learned that the word means miserly or stingy and I embraced this enlightenment and was so happy to have it, even though I suspected he did it on purpose since it wasn't a common word, so why use language that isn't familiar to those you're trying to communicate with? Still, I was empowered to know the true meaning of the word and never again will I cringe when I hear it. Even if someone maliciously used it to elicit some reaction from me, I am so at peace with it now that I know what it means that any effort to ruffle my feathers with the word will be so wasted on me coz it won't do ish.

So because I grow as I learn and I love to learn and grow (read: advance), I just don't get this insistence on pretending a word means what it doesn't mean. What happened to living above the level of mediocrity? Again, there are people who will never use the word "black" or "African American" or "African" as a compliment. Heck, *I*don't use any of them myself as a compliment--nor do I use white or Caucasian or Asian as a compliment either--but that doesn't stop them from being OK words to use on me (the first 3 words that is, ). Wait... why must it be a compliment? So many words are not meant to be compliments. Black, white, short, tall, young, old...are descriptive words that are neither bad nor good, and so are not compliments. And nappy falls into that category, where it just describes something and is not a compliment or an insult.

EllePixie, I seriously can't believe that you worry so much about what people think of your hair so that if they say it isn't nice it'd upset you so. Really? I garnered that from your last line. See if people tell me my hair is nappy, or bad, or not nice, WTF do I care??? Trust me, I do not leave the house without feeling like I'm all that and a bag of chips. So there isn't anything anyone can tell me about my hair that can offend me. NOTHING! Just like I am so proud of who I am that there isn't anything anyone can tell me about my people, where I come from, the race I belong to that would make me feel uneasy or uncomfortable to be called what I am.

Again, why would an idiot come and misuse a word in your face and instead of thinking "You poor misinformed fool" or taking that moment to enlighten the dummy, you instead join in the ignorance and interpret the word the same becoming one with the dummy?

If I went to the UK and someone said to me, "Have you ever taken a fag in your mouth?" I know what that would mean here but KNOWLEDGE (Thank God for knowledge ) has armed me with the fact that a fag is a slang word for a cigarette in the UK so I would know s/he wasn't talking about a homosexual. So with the knowledge I have about the word, I would not get mad even if the person knew I live in the US and was saying that to get me worked up as some double entendre humor. Notice, I said, this person was deliberately trying to rub me the wrong way, but because of knowledge, I'd say "Well, I don't really care for cigarettes." BOOYAH! Now who'd have egg on his/her face?

I wish someone would come to me with the word nappy as an insult. I wish someone would tell me about my hair being nappy. I think I'd have so much pleasure showing up a fool who comes to me with malice. There's nothing more enjoyable than bringing an obnoxious arrogant person down a few pegs. And I wouldn't do it with aggression. I'd do it with the gentle arsenal of information and enlightenment.

 

[Nonie]

There it is. Asking someone to accept something directed towards them that is meant to insult or degrade them is completely incomprehensible.

So I ask you too, the day a bigot makes a comment that is meant to degrade you as a black person or you as a woman, you will quit accepting those descriptions of yourself? What if the compliment is "You're so beautiful and smart for a black person/woman", what will you do then? Will you just see ignorance for what it is? Or will you stop being a black person/woman because when the words are used, they aren't used as a compliment but rather they are the thing that, according to that statement, is normally responsible for people not being beautiful or smart?

Do you all see what power you are giving others in determining your happiness and peace of mind?

I dunno, to each his own. I'ma stay nappy-headed with my nappy hair and continue to walk tall with my short black African self. And anyone who can't stand it can kiss my you know what.

Breaking News: WNGs are pretty nappy. (Let's use the word properly nah! If anything highlights tiny coils, it's WNGs that show definition. So if EllePixie's brother was to use the word properly, he'd be excited to grow his hair because he found out that it would be nappy just like he saw after the WNG. It is the frizzy, lack of naps hair that looks like a cloud (the more familiar appearance of 4B hair) that many aren't too keen on. But the minute definition is seen...Squee!

Example of a very nappy do:

The tight coils are very visible.^^
​

They aren't as tight as 4B (whose coils would be hard to see from afar so 4B hair may not really appear nappy until you're very close) but they are not as loose as type 3 coils, whose coils are a little too big to be considered tiny or kinky or nappy.

So that hair ^^is kinky and therefore nappy.

And I will swear this on a stack of bibles even if I'll be the only one doing it.
​

 

[Nonie]

i agree with you on the definition of nappy...but just because in the days of slavery nappy meant unkempt, and today nappy can be embraced as a description of tightly curly hair, doesnt mean we should ignore the word when its used it a way that connotes unkempt hair or is meant to describe natural hair in a negative way...some black people embrace the other "N" word, but if a white person called you one (with obvious malicious intent), you're not going to neglect the history of the word just because today some people choose to use it with a non negative connotation. the same goes for nappy...just because it might also describe tightly curled hair, that doesnt take away from the fact that it was and still is used to also negatively connote unkempt/undone/ innapropriate/etc. hair, which is obviously the way in which the lady in the video's supervisor intended it to come across.

That comparison doesn't even hold water. We have to look at both words and how they came into being. The derogatory N word for describing black people never came into English language as a neutral word the way the word nappy did. And the word nappy didn't MEAN unkempt in slavery days. It just came to be associated with unkempt because that was true of nappy hair; it was unkempt because of the lack of resources then.

There was a time black people couldn't read and were not considered smart. It was true of them then. So are we going to continue to think that even when it doesn't apply today?

Again, we do ourselves a disservice if we will allow words that have nothing to do with what they are being used as to hurt us.

I watched Ice Cube's documentary where a black family became white and a white family became black. The father from the black family as a white man started working at a pub and one of the patrons was making small talk with him. He then told him that he had come to a good neighborhood because it's pure and had not been infiltrated by minorities. I forget his exact words but there was no question about how "filthy/unworthy" he thought of minorities and how highly he esteemed his own race. The black guy in disguise was taken aback by this statement. So what was he to do? He can't change what that person thinks, and I would guess had the speaker known he was talking to a black guy he probably wouldn't have said what he said, let alone spoken to someone so "beneath" him.

So there will always be something about you that someone thinks/says NOT as a compliment. But some of those things YOU yourself know are inaccurate about you. "You talk white" or "You speak so well for an AA" for example. There are even people in your own race who might make those same remarks. So will you accept that our people are not supposed to be intelligent coz there are those who continue to think so, or will you break away from that BS and know the truth and live it.

History said nappy hair cannot be combed or groomed. THAT is what history said. And that because nappy hair cannot be groomed, it is always going to be a mess. History got it wrong.But if some of you want to continue believing that the earth is flat, go right on ahead. I'ma stick with the latest findings, and the proof is in the pudding coz my nappy hair isn't unkempt. And unlike some of you, I don't need anyone to validate me or befuddle me on the meaning of words or the truth about me when I have a brain and the rationale to recognize BS when it walks up and stares me in the face.

 

[EllePixie]

Well this is really hard to respond to (I keep scrolling up and down), so I'm going to address the bolded (dang it, I bolded a bunch of stuff and then the post was too long so I had to take out the quote, bah!!):

- I agree that people view being black as less, but that isn't because of the word black, or brown, or directly with the color of our skin (although people do look at our skin and automatically assume certain things, but if it were directly the color, they would assume the same thing about someone of another race with that skin color). That has to do with an entirely different set of stereotypes regarding the characteristics of blacks as well, which yes, do offend me. But people are not calling hair nappy as in unkempt because they are trying to be ignorant, or insulting. The POV that black hair is naturally unkempt, ugly, and unmanageable is generally accepted in society as fact, at least in America. Even when people aren't insulting natural hair, they will talk about how it's so unruly, or thick and hard to comb, or it's too puffy, or how it won't lay down. Now, many of these descriptions may be true, but people aren't just saying them to say them, they say them to draw the conclusion that our hair sucks. I hate to say this, because I ALWAYS refer to the dictionary or encyclopedia when explaining things, but in society words take on a twisted meaning often times when they are put in a specific context. To be frank, I don't give two shakes what the word actually means, because I can interpret how the word is being used in any given situation and react accordingly. It all depends on that context, like I said. We are all familiar with slang, and usually know what people mean when they address us. Again, when my dad used the word nappy to describe my hair, and was using the actual definition, I did not correct him. The way he used it, YES, my hair is nappy, and that's fine. When I see a natural hair salon with the word nappy in the title, I don't cringe, and when people use the word in the natural hair community it's a-ok with me. However, if you say something to me in a negative way and I don't agree with your interpretation, I will refute the description.

- You're misinterpreting my story with my brother. No, he wasn't saying he didn't like hair that is combed out. To him nappy is non-defined, afro hair, like when he used to wear a flat top. He is one of those people that think all black people have 4b hair. He hadn't seen my natural hair in quite some time, and thought it would grow out like his - "nappy." When he realized that my hair didn't look like his and wasn't "nappy" to him, he was confused. To him that's what black hair is, nappy. Like I said, the notion that black people have lesser hair is generally accepted in society, even by other black people. He wasn't stating a preference, he just thought that because I was black my hair would be "nappy" by his definition of the term.

- The David Howard situation is totally different in my eyes, because the word n.i.g.g.a.r.dly is a completely different word from the n-word to me. Like you said, you didn't know what the word meant, and most likely, the people upset didn't know what it meant either. Also, he wasn't trying to be insulting towards blacks when using it (no, I don't think he used it on purpose as some kind of secret jab) and he knew what he was saying when he said it. I've used the term as well. I don't get how that's the same thing when a person using nappy doesn't know what it means (or they may know what it means, but they are using the slang definition), and they are using it in a negative manner.

- And yea...I don't really care. People can call my hair whatever they want. I'm just offering you a different perspective. To give another example, if one of my friends called me the b-word using the slang definition, I wouldn't care, but if someone used the word in a combative manner towards me, using the actual definition, yes, I would address that. Again, it all depends on the context. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not one of those people who think it's so clever to try to turn an insult around on a person...(I don't really get the cig reference either, I mean...I get what you are saying, I think, but if someone said that to me in America with either meaning it wouldn't offend me, so I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why it would?)...like, if someone came up to you and called you the c-word (which actually by definition refers to female organs, or just a female - yes, it's considered obscene but not really insulting), would you look at them and say, "HAH! Yes! I do have one of those!"? I know I wouldn't...

 

[Nonie]

Again, when my dad used the word nappy to describe my hair, and was using the actual definition, I did not correct him. The way he used it, YES, my hair is nappy, and that's fine. When I see a natural hair salon with the word nappy in the title, I don't cringe, and when people use the word in the natural hair community it's a-ok with me. However, if you say something to me in a negative way and I don't agree with your interpretation, I will refute the description.

Then you can start by refuting the negative interpretation and enlightening folk instead of just saying "Don't call my hair nappy." I mean if you're asked why? You'll simply say that it's because nappy has a bad history. Then you're asked why. Then you go on till you explain the facts from the movie. Then you're asked but what has that got to do with today? Just because people are so misinformed, why do you who is intelligent allow ignorance to rule your world? I still don't see how all that explains why you continue to believe along with the misinformed that nappy means unkempt. Why is information necessary if you'll continue to hang out with turkeys. For crying out loud, sometimes you have to soar like an eagle and do your thang.

You're misinterpreting my story with my brother. No, he wasn't saying he didn't like hair that is combed out. To him nappy is non-defined, afro hair, like when he used to wear a flat top. He is one of those people that think all black people have 4b hair. He hadn't seen my natural hair in quite some time, and thought it would grow out like his - "nappy." When he realized that my hair didn't look like his and wasn't "nappy" to him, he was confused. To him that's what black hair is, nappy. Like I said, the notion that black people have lesser hair is generally accepted in society, even by other black people. He wasn't stating a preference, he just thought that because I was black my hair would be "nappy" by his definition of the term.

Actually, I didn't misinterpret you. As you will note, I said after re-reading, I see exactly what he was meaning. Non-defined afro hair is what I called "combed out afro hair". It is what led Andre to saying our hair had no pattern. It is manipulated kinky hair that you see in high tops.

Except that his is the wrong use of the word. Because looking at ^^ hair, there's no evidence of coils which nullifies the definition of nappy. It is a given 4B hair is not popular in a world that has a history of knowing its unkempt days, or seeing type 3 hair get all the praise. Defined curls look more like the hair that was termed "good hair" and it's a shame that even the new generation has been brainwashed to think the same as our ancestors. So trust me, I got what your brother was saying.

The David Howard situation is totally different in my eyes, because the word n.i.g.g.a.r.dly is a completely different word from the n-word to me. Like you said, you didn't know what the word meant, and most likely, the people upset didn't know what it meant either. Also, he wasn't trying to be insulting towards blacks when using it (no, I don't think he used it on purpose as some kind of secret jab) and he knew what he was saying when he said it. I've used the term as well. I don't get how that's the same thing when a person using nappy doesn't know what it means (or they may know what it means, but they are using the slang definition), and they are using it in a negative manner.

OK, this is a perfect example that will hopefully help you see my point. YOU know the word n.i.g.g.a.r.dly so you would not have flinched when Howard used it. Many people were pissed. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson all went up in arms. Even after the truth came out, there are some who were still angry he used it and argued that when you are speaking to a group of people who are a mixture of of people of varying education, you use language that conveys the message you want to convey. So I'm not the only one who thinks he used it deliberately to ruffle feathers. That he resigned further reinforced my thinking that it was a way of showing the disdain he had for a bunch of people who make a big deal out of nothing--further showing the "chip on the shoulder" stereotype that we have been accused of having (but I admit I could be wrong). But so imagine after that word was explained, TO THIS DAY I know a bunch of people who hate the word. Who think it is derogatory. You don't. And if you used it, because it's so normal to you, and people got pissed, you'd probably feel like Howard felt and go WTH???

Now I brought up that word so that I can show you that just like the word nappy bothers you because you view it as an insult depending on context, even when you know better about it's true definition, why not treat it differently. No one has yet used n.i.g.g.a.r.dly in an effort to upset me, but if they did, it'd not work because I KNOW BETTER. So why do you let nappy bother you when even your own father has informed you that if your hair isn't straight, it's nappy? In other words, why let n.i.g.g.a.r.dly continue to upset you when you now know the meaning of it, regardless of the context it is used in. Do you follow my argument now?

And yea...I don't really care. People can call my hair whatever they want. I'm just offering you a different perspective. To give another example, if one of my friends called me the b-word using the slang definition, I wouldn't care, but if someone used the word in a combative manner towards me, using the actual definition, yes, I would address that. Again, it all depends on the context. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I'm not one of those people who think it's so clever to try to turn an insult around on a person...(I don't really get the cig reference either, I mean...I get what you are saying, I think, but if someone said that to me in America with either meaning it wouldn't offend me, so I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why it would?)...like, if someone came up to you and called you the c-word (which actually by definition refers to female organs, or just a female - yes, it's considered obscene but not really insulting), would you look at them and say, "HAH! Yes! I do have one of those!"? I know I wouldn't...

I guess I used the cig reference because I remember witnessing (maybe in real life or movie, I cannot remember) a guy being asked if he'd like a fag by a Brit and war almost breaking out over that. I have a lot of male friends so that probably wasn't a good example for you, but homophobic guys might not appreciate any insinuation that they might be putting any part of a homosexual male in their mouth. So if someone was trying to be funny/mean and assuming the one they are speaking to didn't know the word fag as a slang for cigarette, and they used that word to ask a guy, the guy could get offended by the question if he didn't know it meant cig. But knowing the meaning would basically snuff that suckers attempt to offend.

The C word is offensive hands down It is never cute. It has never been neutral. You're comparing apples and oranges here. It falls into the same pit as the N word for describing black people. So it doesn't compare to a word whose etymology and true meaning has meant something as neutral as tight coils. No comparison whatsoever.

The B word can mean a female dog or a malicious/overbearing/spiteful woman or a lewd/immoral woman. So yes, by definition, how the word is used will determine which defintion is being applied. If your friend smiles and calls you a b****, she's probably calling you spiteful which wouldn't hurt me coming from a friend. Or she might be saying you did something out of malice. In a combative tone, it's obviously not meant in a nice way, because by definition, the word can have very negative meanings.

By definition, nappy has no negative meaning. It is simple a word that describes texture. That the world hates the way 4B hair looks doesn't make it a bad word. That the world looks at 4B hair and gags, doesn't make it a bad word. That at one time nappy hair was unkempt, doesn't make it a so today just like black people having been illiterate at one time and considered at the level of dogs doesn't make it so today.

And yes, we will have to agree to disagree, because I still don't see any reason why anyone would continue to apply a meaning to a word that has no basis in this day and age. History's theory of unkempt nappy hair ceased to exist when combs that could groom our hair came about and nappy hair became the beautiful crown it is today. *shrug*

 

[Nonie]

Well this is really hard to respond to (I keep scrolling up and down), so I'm going to address the bolded (dang it, I bolded a bunch of stuff and then the post was too long so I had to take out the quote, bah!!):

- I agree that people view being black as less, but that isn't because of the word black, or brown, or directly with the color of our skin (although people do look at our skin and automatically assume certain things, but if it were directly the color, they would assume the same thing about someone of another race with that skin color). That has to do with an entirely different set of stereotypes regarding the characteristics of blacks as well, which yes, do offend me. But people are not calling hair nappy as in unkempt because they are trying to be ignorant, or insulting. The POV that black hair is naturally unkempt, ugly, and unmanageable is generally accepted in society as fact, at least in America. Even when people aren't insulting natural hair, they will talk about how it's so unruly, or thick and hard to comb, or it's too puffy, or how it won't lay down. Now, many of these descriptions may be true, but people aren't just saying them to say them, they say them to draw the conclusion that our hair sucks. I hate to say this, because I ALWAYS refer to the dictionary or encyclopedia when explaining things, but in society words take on a twisted meaning often times when they are put in a specific context. To be frank, I don't give two shakes what the word actually means, because I can interpret how the word is being used in any given situation and react accordingly. It all depends on that context, like I said. We are all familiar with slang, and usually know what people mean when they address us. Again, when my dad used the word nappy to describe my hair, and was using the actual definition, I did not correct him. The way he used it, YES, my hair is nappy, and that's fine. When I see a natural hair salon with the word nappy in the title, I don't cringe, and when people use the word in the natural hair community it's a-ok with me. However, if you say something to me in a negative way and I don't agree with your interpretation, I will refute the description.

I had to quote this on its own because you lost me with the part highlighted in purple.

So are you bothered by the world hating type 4B hair, or are you bothered with them thinking it sucks? What do you care if they think our hair is hard to manage blah blah blah? Good! Let them think that. Just means I must be the sh** coz I've mastered mine. WTF do I care what the POV of others is of my hair? It hasn't stopped me from doing anything I've wanted to do so pfft. I mean,

That whole paragraph seems to me that your issue isn't so much with the word "nappy" but with how the world perceives our hair. But that is not going to change just because you pick what you deem a better word for your hair. Just because people walk on eggshells around your hair isn't going to change it.

Do you know how a lot of people come to admire my hair? Coz I tell them about it. I actually talk about it with the love I have for it. I talk about it the way you talk about a child you love. And do you know I am yet to meet someone who is grossed out by my hair or makes me feel bad about it. Even when my Coolio do was made fun of (and rightly so!) I turned that around in my favor and had the heckler confused. Why? Coz I effin love my hair. The Coolio incident would be the kind that makes someone post a thread about it, but I left there bemused at how jeering turned to admiration.

Until y'all stop worrying about America's POV then you'll never get to enjoy your hair. Do we have to wait until JLo's butt stands up to be counted before we embrace our badonkadonks? Why do we have to be validated by others? Where's our self-pride?

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

it still reminds me of growing up in the south
although we know & felt the "I'M BLACK & I'M PROUD" movement DEEP IN OUR SOULS ......darker skinned kids were always taunted... being told "you're so black....____ fill in the blank"
and called blackey, tar baby, blue-black... anything they could think of to belittle dark skin

my aunts even did this to my sister, and as an adult she still has a complex about said words

yes we are black (AA) and even quite proud... but if u walk up in MY FACE (as a kid) and say "yo' black azzzz _____" <--- you will kindly get the fuyyyk knocked back! I promise you... I grew quite aggressive about this b/c I saw the way it made my sister feel
I talked before on here or hairlista, or bhm or hell somewhere about how my African friends had shocked me with this same taunting of each other "yo' black azzzz this & that" ...."you so black ______".....but then we had grown into adults, ( grad school etc.) so I simply sat bet and took it in
still shocked nevertheless, I thought (ignorantly) that was only apart of black culture in America.... they were all new to this country (students)

but yep yep... we are black... but those words back then still hurt & WERE MEANT TO HURT (jokingly or not)

 

[iri9109]

By definition, nappy has no negative meaning. It is simple a word that describes texture...I still don't see any reason why anyone would continue to apply a meaning to a word that has no basis in this day and age. History's theory of unkempt nappy hair ceased to exist when combs that could groom our hair came about and nappy hair became the beautiful crown it is today. *shrug*

grooming or styling hair doesnt change the fact that most natural hair is tightly curled, so whether hair is neat or unkempt, it would still be nappy, right? if nappy describes texture, and the texture is still tightly curled and/or nappy, whether unkempt or styled neatly, then when used as a pejorative, nappy would still mean the same thing, and carry the same negative connotation, regardless of if it's combed and styled or unkempt because according to you, it describes texture...which means the word still has basis in this day and age because whether unkempt or not, the texture is the same thats being described by the word. meaning will always be applied to the word as long as its used negatively in regards to natural hair. if no one in the world used nappy to mean unkempt or just as a general adjective describing the texture of our natural hair (whether unkempt or groomed), then it wouldnt matter, and the word nappy would strictly mean tightly curled, and nothing else, so that when some says my hair is nappy, i wouldnt have to wonder if they meant unkempt or ugly or anything else negative...but that isn't the case.

 

[kittykhat]

I'm sorry but her work hairstyle looks tacky and if I were her boss, I would complain too.

 

[firecracker]

Well I want my boss or anyone else at work to make a nappy comment because I will be sitting at home collecting multiple checks and flying all over the world with my hurt feelings.

 

[EllePixie]

I had to quote this on its own because you lost me with the part highlighted in purple.

So are you bothered by the world hating type 4B hair, or are you bothered with them thinking it sucks? What do you care if they think our hair is hard to manage blah blah blah? Good! Let them think that. Just means I must be the sh** coz I've mastered mine. WTF do I care what the POV of others is of my hair? It hasn't stopped me from doing anything I've wanted to do so pfft. I mean,

That whole paragraph seems to me that your issue isn't so much with the word "nappy" but with how the world perceives our hair. But that is not going to change just because you pick what you deem a better word for your hair. Just because people walk on eggshells around your hair isn't going to change it.

Do you know how a lot of people come to admire my hair? Coz I tell them about it. I actually talk about it with the love I have for it. I talk about it the way you talk about a child you love. And do you know I am yet to meet someone who is grossed out by my hair or makes me feel bad about it. Even when my Coolio do was made fun of (and rightly so!) I turned that around in my favor and had the heckler confused. Why? Coz I effin love my hair. The Coolio incident would be the kind that makes someone post a thread about it, but I left there bemused at how jeering turned to admiration.

Until y'all stop worrying about America's POV then you'll never get to enjoy your hair. Do we have to wait until JLo's butt stands up to be counted before we embrace our badonkadonks? Why do we have to be validated by others? Where's our self-pride?

The part in purple was simply talking about the societal definition of nappy. Like I said...it really doesn't matter to me, which is probably why I don't need to go into educate mode every time someone uses the word. That's exhausting. No thanks.

Well, you did misinterpret my story with my brother because he wasn't saying he had a preference for one kind of hair over the other, or that he dislikes hair that he thinks is nappy. He actually thinks similar to you in the sense that, well, our hair is nappy, that's all, shrug. He uses the societal definition though.

The reason I used those other words is because I'm trying to highlight the difference between a slang/societal defintion and an actual definition. The b-word can also mean friend, like, "Omg, I love her, that's my b**ch." And I use that word like that ALL the time, and am never offended when my friend greets me like that. However, if we're in a fight, and the same friend uses the same word, the reaction is different because the intent is different. Truth be told, the c-word isn't really offensive to me at all, and in England it's commonly used. But - if there was some dude in a bar screaming at me and calling me that word, I would be mad due to the situation. Even if you don't like it, or aren't willing to acknowledge it, nappy meaning unkempt/undefined IS a slang definition of the word. When I told my brother my hair isn't nappy, I wasn't saying it wasn't tightly coiled, I said it wasn't nappy because I knew what he meant. Just like I said that when I was a child I used the word nappy to describe relaxed hair that looked a mess.

It's just not as cut and dry as you are displaying in your posts (as in, well that's not what the word really means, so we should just tell people). I absolutely completely understand what you are getting at, but many others, myself included, have a different perspective. That's all.

 

[Nonie]

The part in purple was simply talking about the societal definition of nappy. Like I said...it really doesn't matter to me, which is probably why I don't need to go into educate mode every time someone uses the word. That's exhausting. No thanks.

To me getting angry and worked up would be more exhausting but to each his own.

Well, you did misinterpret my story with my brother because he wasn't saying he had a preference for one kind of hair over the other, or that he dislikes hair that he thinks is nappy. He actually thinks similar to you in the sense that, well, our hair is nappy, that's all, shrug. He uses the societal definition though.

I don't think I'm misunderstanding what you're writing, unless you aren't writing what you mean. Your you said your brother thought you had done something to turn your "nappy" hair into "nice" hair when he saw your WNG (good hair/bad hair mentality) and considered growing his out if it'd be like yours. You further explained that to him nappy hair that is non-defined, afro hair, like when he used to wear a flat top (which to me is what combed out type 4 hair looks like). From those two statements, one can deduce that until your brother saw your hair, to him all black hair was that non-defined afro hair like he had when he had a flat top (ie manipulated type 4 hair and not defined hair). He appreciates the look you had which was different and it is why he is excited to grow his if it will look like that, which isn't "nappy" but "nice". (Your words)

Just because your brother likes the "nice" look doesn't mean he hates "nappy" hair, and I wasn't trying to say that. Your use of the word "nice" as opposite of "nappy" when explaining the difference your brother noticed and then saying he uses "societal definition" of nappy (which you previously stated is "naturally unkempt, ugly, and unmanageable) would not make him wrong for finding your hair "nice" when it isn't "nappy" (non-defined). Society is entitled to their opinion as is your brother, which has nothing to do with me... hence why I don't care. BTW, one of my dearest friends has type 4A hair and does not care for the non-defined look. She appreciates it on others but will never wear it on herself. She just prefers that defined look to the non-defined afro look and that's OK.

Perhaps your brother doesn't have a preference despite of your use of words that would lead one to think so, but he just wants a different look from the one that he's used to. But even I was right previously and it really is a preference, it would not make him a bad person or a hater. I prefer blueberries to apples but it doesn't mean I hate or dislike apples. I don't have any ill judgment on him. But I did follow your explanation and as I pointed out above, it seemed he prefers defined hair to non-defined hair, but it could just be he was excited at the prospects of what his hair can do, ie its versatility and wanted to have fun.

BTW, my definition of nappy isn't the societal definition or the one your brother thinks of according to you (non-defined afro hair), so in that sense he doesn't think like me. I do think our hair (not all black people, but only those with type 4 hair, A & B) is nappy because it is naturally made of small curls. Its structure is what's nappy about it; not how it's worn or looks in the sense of good/nice or bad/ugly. Nappy is to type 4 hair as straight is to type 1 hair in MY definition. Descriptions of a structure, nothing more nothing less.

The reason I used those other words is because I'm trying to highlight the difference between a slang/societal defintion and an actual definition. The b-word can also mean friend, like, "Omg, I love her, that's my b**ch." And I use that word like that ALL the time, and am never offended when my friend greets me like that. However, if we're in a fight, and the same friend uses the same word, the reaction is different because the intent is different. Truth be told, the c-word isn't really offensive to me at all, and in England it's commonly used. But - if there was some dude in a bar screaming at me and calling me that word, I would be mad due to the situation. Even if you don't like it, or aren't willing to acknowledge it, nappy meaning unkempt/undefined IS a slang definition of the word. When I told my brother my hair isn't nappy, I wasn't saying it wasn't tightly coiled, I said it wasn't nappy because I knew what he meant. Just like I said that when I was a child I used the word nappy to describe relaxed hair that looked a mess.

OK, point taken. And I guess that's a case of personality. I tend to use words literally, most of the time, and so for me things are cut and dry. I don't get offended by words whose meaning isn't offensive no matter how they are used because I don't allow malice to get the better of me. A word like nappy to me is like the word "feminine" or "Kenyan". It's so true of me, that I could never see it as an insult regardless of how it's used. A response I've heard when something was used with malice when it had no effect is "You say that like it's a bad thing!" That would be my reaction if someone used the word on me. And just like you don't think of the N slur word when you hear the word "n.i.g.g.a.r.dly", I don't think of any negativity and can't when I hear "nappy", nor do I even feel any odd way or even stop in my tracks. You might as well have said, "It's Tuesday today" or "Today is Yesterday's Tomorrow". My reaction, or just "OK...as I wait for the point of the redundant statement". Anyway, I'm glad we had this exchange coz I'm sure there are people who cleared things in their minds whether it was convince themselves even more that they hate the word or find like a fellow poster once did that they really had no problem with the word.

I do think a lot of people do embrace the word but are afraid of going against the current lest they be called sell-outs. If you don't believe me, check out that thread about taking back the N-word. The poll does speak volumes.

It's just not as cut and dry as you are displaying in your posts (as in, well that's not what the word really means, so we should just tell people). I absolutely completely understand what you are getting at, but many others, myself included, have a different perspective. That's all.

Perhaps for you it isn't cut and dry, but for me it is. Just like there's no question in your mind about "n.i.g.g.a.r.dly" and you don't even flinch when you hear it, there's none in my mind about "nappy". And while I did mention enlightening folks on what the word means, I do know how to pick my students. So you can bet your bottom dollar that if someone comes to me with the word as an insult, my response would be more like

"You say that like it's a bad thing! " Or "And I am also a woman. Your point?" Even as I write this, I am sitting here trying to imagine myself getting mad about me being called a nappy-head and I can't. I am having to add really crass words that offend me for any sentence with the word "nappy" about my hair to make me think "Oh no she didn't!". I honest to God do not find the word offensive in the least. So yes, we do have different perspectives.

And I think that is what makes life interesting, that people come in all shapes and forms and colors and POV. Like you're OK with n.i.g.g.a.r.dly, but there will be people who will never be OK with it and for whom the origin, as far as they are concerned (whether true or not), is the slur word; just like there are people who will never accept that Barack Obama is American and not Kenyan. In other words, there will always be those who decide slang and rumors rule and who make them the directive for their lives, and on the other hand, those who do know of the slang/rumors but prefer not to make them the gospel by which they live their lives.

 

[kmn1980]

So I ask you too, the day a bigot makes a comment that is meant to degrade you as a black person or you as a woman, you will quit accepting those descriptions of yourself? What if the compliment is "You're so beautiful and smart for a black person/woman", what will you do then? Will you just see ignorance for what it is? Or will you stop being a black person/woman because when the words are used, they aren't used as a compliment but rather they are the thing that, according to that statement, is normally responsible for people not being beautiful or smart?

Wrong comparison.

I dunno, to each his own. I'ma stay nappy-headed with my nappy hair and continue to walk tall with my short black African self.

Have a ball.