American Apparel does not want to hire blacks with straight hair

[dynamic1]

This author was very clever. People are fighting over something that doesn't exist. Please go back and re-read the story before continuing to turn on each other.

 

[belldandy]

yeah dynamic, you have a point.
will do.

 

[blue_flower]

I don't shop at AA, but if they want Black girls with natural hair I see nothing wrong with that. As for the "trashy" Black girls he's talking about. . .come on. . .we know he's talking about da hood ratz.

 

[belldandy]

I don't shop at AA, but if they want Black girls with natural hair I see nothing wrong with that. As for the "trashy" Black girls he's talking about. . .come on. . .we know he's talking about da hood ratz.

so if I am having my TOM and I am in a tee-shirt and sweats with my hair tied down, what is preventing a yt manager from making that judgement that I am one of those hoodrats when all I am doing is shopping and minding my business? What because my hair is real? Am I supposed to pull out my degrees and prove that I'm not a hoodrat? Lol (hypothetical situation)

anyway, I reread the article and it was one persons account (the hair thing). The whole article is disturbing though. It may just be an unofficial rule.

 

[imaccami]

I'm not really sure how you got that from what I said.

I guess I got that idea from these quotes, but I can see how it's possible that you didn't mean it the way it came across to me.

Thus, there's a level of class bias being interwoven in this construction of natural hair as being "classy" and straight hair being "trashy."

Perhaps the reason that the straight hair is considered "trashy" is because of the condition that the women working there are leaving it in.

We need only take a walk down the street and see how some Black women wear relaxed hair to know that a level of ignorance persists regarding how to properly take care of, and style, relaxed hair.

----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm saying that perhaps the reason for the policy is because the women in the store with straight hair had chewed up ends, etc. the way that a lot of women who don't know how to take care of their hair have hair that looks, well, not that great. By referencing other people, I mean only to suggest that we see evidence of this in our every day lives. In other words, perhaps the reason for the policy is because of the condition that their straight hair was in. In no way, shape or form am I saying that straight hair is trashy or that it has implicit negative connotations.

I understand what you mean, but that doesn't make it ok to say we're not hiring black girls with straight hair. What if they said, "well, everytime I see a black girl with natural hair, it's a mess so don't hire any naturals." That wouldn't be ok, and it's not ok to say that about black girls with straight hair either.

The bottom line is that even if their desires for Black hair are aligned with my own preferences, their motives are less than pure. They're not doing it because they embrace Black women in all their natural beauty; they're doing it because they're looking out for their bottom line and because of the assumptions underlying natural hair. It smacks of a paternalistic model of imposing their standards of beauty on others. And we already know that they're well versed in that, given the accounts of current and former disgruntled employees.

ITA.

 

[gabulldawg]

If you don't like it don't shop there. If it really grinds your gears that much maybe you need to reevaluate why YOU relax/texlax your hair.

ITA. I'm relaxed and it doesn't bother me. And I will still shop there....

What do the sales people who shop there generally look like? Are they similar in shape, age, hair style, etc.?

I'm in ATL and the times I've been to an AA store the black girls I've seen working there were natural or could have been relaxed but had "natural" hairstyles (twistout, braidout, etc). It's been a while since i've been to a store, tho.

 

[glamazon386]

Oh, is that how they get around it? Calling the sales people models and interviews as "castings?" People are so cleaver....

I'm gonna finger wave my hair and get some waterfalls in the back then apply for a job there. If they don't hire me, I'm going to sue them for discrimination.

I remember a white girl in college telling me that a store she worked at back home did this. IIRC it was Abercrombie or Hollister. They called their employees "models". You had to be white, tanned, certain type of hair (I believe it had to be straightened), build, etc. She said they had to have a certain "look" down to their choice of fingernail polish. I'm not surprised that AA does this but on the flip side I'm not even sure how to feel about this whole situation. I do think more people would be upset if the tables were turned though.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

Yes I can imagine how fast the thread would have been like Nitro if the store was AGAINST hiring those with natural hair.

 

[cch24]

I remember a white girl in college telling me that a store she worked at back home did this. IIRC it was Abercrombie or Hollister. You had to be white, tanned, certain type of hair, build, etc. She said they had to have a certain "look" down to their choice of fingernail polish. I'm not surprised that AA does this but on the flip side I'm not even sure how to feel about this whole situation. I do think more people would be upset if the tables were turned though.

That's absolutely how Abercrombie and Hollister (same company) work. The application has two options; "model" or "impact". The models are the people you see in the store, that welcome you and check you out at the register. The impact people are the people you don't see because their in the back folding clothes and doing inventory work. The pay is the same, and you tend to get more hours as an impact person (at least at the Abercrombie I worked at). I was a model and I was told no eyeliner, no heavy make-up, "natural" hair (by natural they meant no outlandish high lights or edgy haircut), guys could not have facial hair, and you couldn't wear nail polish. Those were the rules. I didn't have a problem with complying because I wanted the job.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

From my understanding, it's not just the models on the website. It includes the workers on the store and Ive seen plenty of 3cs,4as as I've walked past the store on campus or at the malls.

I was referring mostly to the OPost's references to casting calls/models.

As for the store staff, I live in AA-ville and the many AA stores that surround me have white or Asian employees, not really many black (at least not many discernibly "buhlack") folks. I imagine it's different though depending on the location and demographic of the area. I'm sure some stores have more black employees and I'm assuming with a variety of hair textures not simply in the looser curl pattern category.

 

[imaccami]

Well let's just say hair that can be styled in a way that appears natural. I still don't think the analogy fits because straight hair is a superficial beauty choice a woman makes, whether it's through a relaxer or press. Straight hair is not inherent in black women. To me, it would be similar to a company saying, "For our caucasian models, we only want natural hair colors...no bleach blondes."



To the bolded, I don't see this as discrimination, because again, it's a superficial choice. It's not discrimination to not want to hire a person who chose to get several visible tattoos or pink hair or 5 nose rings. Nor is it discrimination to not hire someone because they chose to wear their kinky hair straight. I might not even argue if a company preferred no braids, or twists, or locs. But they can't not hire me because my hair is kinky, because that is the state of being for my hair, just like my brown skin or my height or size. IMHO

I'm going to stick with hairstyle.

I think I used the word discrimination in a loose sense not in the legal sense. I was talking about when they basically said that black girls with straight hair were trashy. So instead of saying:

Seems hypocritical to be angry when one hair style is discriminated against and ambivalent when it occurs to another.

To be perfectly clear, I should have said:

Seems hypocritical to be upset when one hairstyle is insulted and ambivalent when another is insulted.

I think that the last part of my quote makes it clear that I was speaking about the name calling not the legal issues.

Otherwise, it's pretty hard to be sympathetic when people are called nappy headed when those same people shrug their shoulders when black girls with straight hair are called trashy.

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that if someone decided to sue American Apparel over this issue they wouldn't have a leg to stand on and would basically be laughed out of the courtroom, if they even got that far.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

^^^^I dont think its insulting for employers to have a preference for how they want their employees to look UNLESS its race based.

 

[DrC]

Would ya'll have voted for Obama if he had ceiling length hair in plaits that looked like Coolio? Just askin......

And would it be wrong if he lost simply because he had ceiling length hair in plaits?

BTW did she ever come back to that thread? lol

please dont say ceiling length!! You have me over here dying wanting to go back to that other post and laugh myself to death!! ha ha!!

http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?t=474874&highlight=

 

[imaccami]

^^^^I dont think its insulting for employers to have a preference for how they want their employees to look UNLESS its race based.

The insult was to say trashy with regards to black women with straight hair. I view trashy as an insult.

 

[slt54321]

You are so right Southerbella

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

The insult was to say trashy with regards to black women with straight hair. I view trashy as an insult.

I went back to re-read the article and it didnt say that strait hair was trashy. They said they didnt want the segment of black women that are considered trashy, you know Bonquisha with the Kool-Aide Man stenciled in her hair with a million colors and 10 inch nails, ect ect ect. If they dont want to sell to that segment fine, thats on them and its their right, but they didnt say that strait hair = trashy.

 

[Lute]

I dont know if this counts.. But I've visted in the NYC AA shops..and I see both straight and kinky/curly (natural) work in AA. They all had to be able to carry a certain look to be able to work there. Also the article is very vague. He doesnt "say". He just chose certain words and left it to anyones imagination.

I know for me. I dont think of women who have perms as trashy. Especially when it comes down to retail. You just have to look presentable.

But it does explain of why I saw young men with washbord abs at Abercrombie & Fitch hanging outside welcoming people in. I'm afraid to go in there... Can't handle the sex apple.

Sorry deviating a bit...

 

[LaFemmeNaturelle]

I dont know if this counts.. But I've visted in the NYC AA shops..and I see both straight and kinky/curly (natural) work in AA. They all had to be able to carry a certain look to be able to work there. Also the article is very vague. He doesnt "say". He just chose certain words and left it to anyones imagination.

I know for me. I dont think of women who have perms as trashy. Especially when it comes down to retail. You just have to look presentable.

But it does explain of why I saw young men with washbord abs at Abercrombie & Fitch hanging outside welcoming people in. I'm afraid to go in there... Can't handle the sex apple.

Sorry deviating a bit...

lol Abercrombie is very intimidating. I feel like I'm walkin in a club when I go in there; its so dark, I can hardly see and I just hear new hit songs playing

 

[TCatt86]

IMO, discriminating against relaxed hair is silly. But generally, people hire who they want based on their personal feelings all the time. I've been hired several times by men I know found me attractive.

BTW, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders have had a member with an afro (at least one) -- back in the 70s.

The 70s? Really? C'mon I'm sure since the 80s, when weaves became more accessible hiring women with an afro went out of the window. Considering this is 2010, if I auditioned now, considering I had every other qualification, my afro would stop me, or I would be told to weave it up when the season started.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

The 70s? Really? C'mon I'm sure since the 80s, when weaves became more accessible hiring women with an afro went out of the window. Considering this is 2010, if I auditioned now, considering I had every other qualification, my afro would stop me, or I would be told to weave it up when the season started.

And dare I say it? Dare I say it DARE I SAY IT but fros were very fashionable and the "in" thing to wear back then. Until the Jheri Curl stomped onto the scene that is.

 

[TCatt86]

And dare I say it? Dare I say it DARE I SAY IT but fros were very fashionable and the "in" thing to wear back then. Until the Jheri Curl stomped onto the scene that is.

No you did not bring the curl in this? But yes I agree, I'm sure they probably had some women with non overly juiced curls back in the 80s. And now if they do have women with their natural hair, I can guarantee it's not in a big kinky afro, probably 3a-3b texture.

 

[imaccami]

I went back to re-read the article and it didnt say that strait hair was trashy. They said they didnt want the segment of black women that are considered trashy, you know Bonquisha with the Kool-Aide Man stenciled in her hair with a million colors and 10 inch nails, ect ect ect. If they dont want to sell to that segment fine, thats on them and its their right, but they didnt say that strait hair = trashy.

I think this is where it becomes subjective. You're right, they didn't straight out say straight hair is trashy, but that's the meaning I take away from it and I based my comments on that meaning. They don't come right out and say anything about Boomqueesha types either, we're guessing about that too.

“none of the trashy kind that come in, we don’t want that. we’re not trying to sell our clothes to them. try to find some of these classy black girls, with nice hair, you know?”

and at one point instructed me to tell two of my employees (both of whom happened to be black females) to stop straightening their hair.

Don't hire the trashy kind that come, only hire the classy ones with nice hair. And then later on someone says that black girls were told to stop straightening their hair.

The whole thing is full of innuendo and gossip and can't really be dissected because it's so vague and rumor-filled, but I was basing my comments on the title of the thread and the idea that AA was calling straight haired black girls trashy.

I guess we'll never know if AA actually called black girls with straight hair trashy or if anything posted in that blog post ever took place.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

I think this is where it becomes subjective. You're right, they didn't straight out say straight hair is trashy, but that's the meaning I take away from it and I based my comments on that meaning. They don't come right out and say anything about Boomqueesha types either, we're guessing about that too.





Don't hire the trashy kind that come, only hire the classy ones with nice hair. And then later on someone says that black girls were told to stop straightening their hair.

The whole thing is full of innuendo and gossip and can't really be dissected because it's so vague and rumor-filled, but I was basing my comments on the title of the thread and the idea that AA was calling straight haired black girls trashy.

I guess we'll never know if AA actually called black girls with straight hair trashy or if anything posted in that blog post ever took place.

I just didnt read all that from what was presented. If we look hard enough we can find insult in everything we see, ya know? I this case I dont see it.

 

[imaccami]

I just didnt read all that from what was presented. If we look hard enough we can find insult in everything we see, ya know? I this case I dont see it.

I just realized that this is your thread! lol So at some point you thought that this article was about AA not wanting to hire blacks with straight hair even though that is never actually said in the article.

She says that a manager said that they want to hire blacks with nice hair and later on she says that someone else told her to tell 2 employees to stop straightening their hair. But she never says anyone said don't hire blacks with straight hair.

Like I said it's subjective. The same way I think they implied that black girls with straight hair are trashy, you thought or think that they said that they don't want to hire black girls with straight hair.

 

[lilree]

No you did not bring the curl in this? But yes I agree, I'm sure they probably had some women with non overly juiced curls back in the 80s. And now if they do have women with their natural hair, I can guarantee it's not in a big kinky afro, probably 3a-3b texture.

In my entire life, only other black people have told me that this way or that way of wearing hair is no longer acceptable. And none of them were in positions of power.

 

[sleepflower]

so if I am having my TOM and I am in a tee-shirt and sweats with my hair tied down, what is preventing a yt manager from making that judgement that I am one of those hoodrats when all I am doing is shopping and minding my business? What because my hair is real? Am I supposed to pull out my degrees and prove that I'm not a hoodrat? Lol (hypothetical situation)

anyway, I reread the article and it was one persons account (the hair thing). The whole article is disturbing though. It may just be an unofficial rule.

If this is your idea of going to a job interview, which this thread is about, for a job where you have to work with the public and be the image of the store while you are working, then it would not bother me a bit if you did not get hired. And if you cared so much that some random person in a random store cares about what you look like one day out of the year, then simply don't walk out of the house not looking how you normally look. I make errands looking messed up if I am sick/tired/in a rush/whatever and people can stare all they want. The people who matter in my life, including those who have a say in giving me a job, know I am not trashy.

I am in the camp that people are making a bigger deal about it than it is. Dov is not a good human being, I know that, but nowhere does it say or imply that he himself said anything about the hair of the "models" or salespeople or whatever. It named one person in charge of a district. I was ripped off once by Domino's Pizza, should I blame the person who created it? Should I suddenly think Wal-Mart is a great company because I have heard a couple employees who love working there? No and no. Nowhere does the article even imply that this is an official rule that black girls had to stop straightening their hair. Again, it was said by the district manager. The fact that the person who sent that in mused about Dov leads people to think he said anything. If Dov hated relaxed hair so much then darker-complected girls with straight hair would not be modeling clothes on his site.

Second, everyone making this a "black" thing, you have no idea if anyone has told a non-black employee to straighten or not straighten their hair. The linked article specifically talked about black women probably for a purpose, just as it was obviously worded to make it sound like two separate incidents were related and that someone else people already find reprehensible is to blame. In fact, the linked article talked about another girl with "bad hair" and a nose ring not being hired, and I think it is as safe to assume this girl was not black as it would be to assume she was. Considering this bit came before talking about black girls, I am going to assume she was not black. So the store has something against people with bad hair. This is bad how?

I bet anyone here can search for posts where a member complains or makes fun of the appearance of customer service employees in stores, so what is the problem with a company trying to filter these people out?

Third, this ain't new. I consider it just natural the only employees I have seen working at Lane Bryant are overweight women and gay men. And not just gay men, but the "there is no doubt I am gay" men. I consider it natural that all the waitresses at Hooters (do they even hire waiters? I've never been in one ) are thin and have larger busts. They have an image to sell, and that's okay. Considering that AA is going out of business, it shows their particular business model wasn't working out, anyway.

I could understand if, like L'Oreal, they explicitly stated a preference for race. Or if the trashy, yes trashy, black women they are trying to avoid were described in a reprehensible way, like, "don't hire those ghetto Boomquisha Shaniqua Gonorrhea Jackson types with three inches of jacked-up hair and an entire mouth full of gold teef and those loud, fake nails" or something. Then we are in a whole new territory.

 

[SvelteVelvet]

“none of the trashy kind that come in, we don’t want that. we’re not trying to sell our clothes to them. try to find some of these classy black girls, with nice hair, you know?”

It seems like this phrase is what's causing the most uproar. IME these statements are up for interpretation and separate from his texture comment.

It doesn't compute to me that he's calling one classy and the other trashy.

If women think all they need to do is stop relaxing to be classy...well..that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a minute. Natural haired women can look trashy or classy just like relaxed haired women can look trashy or classy.

 

[*CherryPie*]

Thank you sooo much for this post!

This thread is so interesting.

I think if it were natural hair being discriminated against there would be a lot more anger. Seems hypocritical to be angry when one hair style is discriminated against and ambivalent when it occurs to another. Seems like the phrase divide and conquer applies here. How about we stand up for both natural and straight until we reach a place where both are equally accepted and black women don't have to deal with so much meaning being attached to their hairstyle.

Otherwise, it's pretty hard to be sympathetic when people are called nappy headed when those same people shrug their shoulders when black girls with straight hair are called trashy.

 

[FlowerHair]

I didn't get that straight hair = trashy. They clearly don't have a problem with straight hair from looking at their models.

When I hear trashy, I automatically think of the multicolored weaves and tacky plastic looking hair.

I wouldn't hire anyone who looked like that to work for me either.

ITA. I think this is exactly what they meant.

I was interviewing possible new co-workers at my job together with my boss and she actually did comment on a black girl's hair. She said (with her nose all scrunched up) "I think she must have had some extensions".

I didn't think much of it, because I'm used to seeing black women and their hair styles. But to white people, extensions that don't look natural are a no-no. That's just the way it is. Needless to say, the girl with the extensions didn't get the job. I've worked there for 5,5 years and another black woman for over 12 years, so it's not about not hiring black people in general.

I interpret "nice hair" as neatly styled hair that looks fresh and easy to care for. No elaborate complicated styles with multiple colors.

I think it's only fair for a company whose image is a big part of how they make money to dictate looks for their employees (as long as it isn't racial or other discrimination).

In any job where you are the first impression for the clients your looks will be scrutinized. Not only your hair, but your overall cleanliness, your clothes, your weight, your skin etc.

 

[belldandy]

first, no I never said job interview.
a lot of what you wrote is based on that assumption.
I am gonna keep it brief though.
discrimination is never "ok" or not a big deal. I have been followed around in stores too many times; it only happens when I am dressed down and not wearing my glasses. maybe this is why? That's kind of what my point was.
To hear all this talk about "hood rats" is disgusting. I mean anyone can call anyone a hood rat to make THEMSELVES feel better or to give themselves a sense of superiority.

and truth be told, whites usually cannot tell real hair from a nicely done weave. I have been accused of having one and weave checked quite a few times by them and I am only bsl.
We as black women are our own worst critics. And it's sad.

btw, I knew that AA had no such official policy because it's illegal, for good reason. The one situation is hear say. It's surprising that so many *would* be ok with it.

If this is your idea of going to a job interview, which this thread is about, for a job where you have to work with the public and be the image of the store while you are working, then it would not bother me a bit if you did not get hired. And if you cared so much that some random person in a random store cares about what you look like one day out of the year, then simply don't walk out of the house not looking how you normally look. I make errands looking messed up if I am sick/tired/in a rush/whatever and people can stare all they want. The people who matter in my life, including those who have a say in giving me a job, know I am not trashy.

I am in the camp that people are making a bigger deal about it than it is. Dov is not a good human being, I know that, but nowhere does it say or imply that he himself said anything about the hair of the "models" or salespeople or whatever. It named one person in charge of a district. I was ripped off once by Domino's Pizza, should I blame the person who created it? Should I suddenly think Wal-Mart is a great company because I have heard a couple employees who love working there? No and no. Nowhere does the article even imply that this is an official rule that black girls had to stop straightening their hair. Again, it was said by the district manager. The fact that the person who sent that in mused about Dov leads people to think he said anything. If Dov hated relaxed hair so much then darker-complected girls with straight hair would not be modeling clothes on his site.

Second, everyone making this a "black" thing, you have no idea if anyone has told a non-black employee to straighten or not straighten their hair. The linked article specifically talked about black women probably for a purpose, just as it was obviously worded to make it sound like two separate incidents were related and that someone else people already find reprehensible is to blame. In fact, the linked article talked about another girl with "bad hair" and a nose ring not being hired, and I think it is as safe to assume this girl was not black as it would be to assume she was. Considering this bit came before talking about black girls, I am going to assume she was not black. So the store has something against people with bad hair. This is bad how?

I bet anyone here can search for posts where a member complains or makes fun of the appearance of customer service employees in stores, so what is the problem with a company trying to filter these people out?

Third, this ain't new. I consider it just natural the only employees I have seen working at Lane Bryant are overweight women and gay men. And not just gay men, but the "there is no doubt I am gay" men. I consider it natural that all the waitresses at Hooters (do they even hire waiters? I've never been in one ) are thin and have larger busts. They have an image to sell, and that's okay. Considering that AA is going out of business, it shows their particular business model wasn't working out, anyway.

I could understand if, like L'Oreal, they explicitly stated a preference for race. Or if the trashy, yes trashy, black women they are trying to avoid were described in a reprehensible way, like, "don't hire those ghetto Boomquisha Shaniqua Gonorrhea Jackson types with three inches of jacked-up hair and an entire mouth full of gold teef and those loud, fake nails" or something. Then we are in a whole new territory.