Is hair texture the new paper bag test???

[gymfreak336]

So tell Me, What is the Point of this Forum thing, For converstaion? I tell you Ladies this much, I don't need to get on a board to lollygag with folks, I truly came here for Help with My hair, and if I can't get Real Help with My hair then, Please tell Me, "What is the Point"! People just need to be conscience of the way they deliver their replies, as IRL, Your delivery makes a World of difference, depending on how You say it, Period, Yes some are blatently mean, purposely, cause I have seen it, but If I ask, believe Me I want to know!

Not everyone is like you. You would be suprised at how many people say they want an honest opinion and then when they get it, ignore it, or get sensitive and run away. This forum has changed a lot. You would really be surprised.

 

[sylver2]

^^there was a thread i think where people tried to be honest and very nice. someone posted pics saying she made bsl i think. she was barely apl..but many responded that while her hair was indeed beautiful and awesome progress, she hadn't quite made bsl yet and will hit bsl maybe in a few months. she went off! she was pissed and would not believe it and called people haters.

 

[Mz.MoMo5235]

^^there was a thread i think where people tried to be honest and very nice. someone posted pics saying she made bsl i think. she was barely apl..but many responded that while her hair was indeed beautiful and awesome progress, she hadn't quite made bsl yet and will hit bsl maybe in a few months. she went off! she was pissed and would not believe it and called people haters.

oh wow, really? that's just silly... the internet has really become THAT serious! i remember when i 1st started my hair journey i posted a pic saying i made mbl... i was advised otherwise by SEVERAL people lol... know what i did? came back a month or 2 later saying i made mbl lol its not like we get trophies! ~though trophies would be nice

 

[Leesh]

Not everyone is like you. You would be suprised at how many people say they want an honest opinion and then when they get it, ignore it, or get sensitive and run away. This forum has changed a lot. You would really be surprised.

I am aware that everyone is not like Me, but that still doesn't negate the fact that, a Forum is based on opinions and criticism of some sort, the way I see it don't ask if You don't want the truth.

 

[Aviah]

I think thin hair is connected to the idea we have of damaged hair, it tends to be thin. We also don't applaud shorter hair goals being met, because for a lot of us, short hair is the "norm" that we are coming to the forums to exceed. However NL for someone may be a big milestone not passed before. But its like joy, only you know the extent of something you are joyful about.
I think type 4b hair is beautiful in its own right. Do I want it? Sometimes. Could I handle it? I don't think so. I also think 3b is beautiful. Do I want it? Sometimes. Could I handle it? I really can't be bothered to learn a new head of hair TBH. To think hair is beautiful is one thing, to want it is another. To me, hair typing should only be used for two things: describing hair, or looking for those with similar textures to help with regimens. Even still, with a pinch of salt. Whatever you want to call it doesn't change what it is.
Whatever you like, whatever you want, whatever you do, keep it healthy. Grow it long should you wish to do so. Loving all of you is important. But just as some will not like their bunions for the rest of their lives, some will never like their hair texture. Its the reasons why that are more important, and more telling than the preferences themselves.

 

[Bene]

oh wow, really? that's just silly... the internet has really become THAT serious! i remember when i 1st started my hair journey i posted a pic saying i made mbl... i was advised otherwise by SEVERAL people lol... know what i did? came back a month or 2 later saying i made mbl lol its not like we get trophies! ~though trophies would be nice

They really would. Although, I can't imagine how I'd explain that to people when they come over.

Friend: What's that?
Me: That's my hair trophy

 

[Leesh]

They really would. Although, I can't imagine how I'd explain that to people when they come over.

Friend: What's that?
Me: That's my hair trophy

LOL! Its hard enough explaining this HH journey were partaking in, could You imagine! erplexed

 

[jamaraa]

OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?

Umm no. There's such a thing as nuance...the literal-mindedness is like . What *I* mean is why are people SO concerned about trying to pick someone's hair apart, specifically their declared texture? Even if they're wrong or lying, you're merely looking at a pic, so what makes you think you're any more accurate? It looks desparate and silly to argue w/ someone about hair you've not seen or touched in real life.

Nothing wrong w/ talking about hair, but acting like you're an expert on someone else's head based on a pic is .

There are times when something is obvious...if they say they're waistlength and they are actually shoulder length, OK....but hair type and texture isn't so obvious. People bring their own issues to this tho, those who declare and those who argue w/ them.

 

[robot.]

Umm no. There's such a thing as nuance...the literal-mindedness is like . What *I* mean is why are people SO concerned about trying to pick someone's hair apart, specifically their declared texture? Even if they're wrong or lying, you're merely looking at a pic, so what makes you think you're any more accurate? It looks desparate and silly to argue w/ someone about hair you've not seen or touched in real life.

Nothing wrong w/ talking about hair, but acting like you're an expert on someone else's head based on a pic is .

There are times when something is obvious...if they say they're waistlength and they are actually shoulder length, OK....but hair type and texture isn't so obvious. People bring their own issues to this tho, those who declare and those who argue w/ them.

So, if it doesn't matter in the long run, why not just let people have their discussions, be it relevant or completely pointless? If people want to talk about things that seem superfluous, and even if they want to be "experts" based of a picture, why not let them? After all, it doesn't really matter, so it shouldn't be hurting anyone or anything.

And I meant in general, not just focusing on picking apart hair type (like what you were talking about).

 

[jamaraa]

Robot come on...nobody's stopping anyone from having discussions about this issue (If only we could?! ) However, when folks get into petty arguments w/ others about this and take up the whole darned board w/ it, it gets old and boring. People been going on about this for years now, so we're hardly hearing anything new or enlightening. The tone of these discussion has a tendency to get ugly anyway and doesn't further the knowledge of hair care, IMHO.

It's the petty squabbles and perpetually hurt feelings that's running off good people w/ useful info. My policy is I NEVER argue w/ a woman about her hair...ever! It's not that important...it's HER hair. Don't you understand that..it's not your hair. You have the freedom to do what you want, so why can't others w/o getting alot of nonsense thrown their way? Some folks use this 4absy3bats stuff to try and dictate how others should feel about their hair and care for it, not my bag at all. What you aren't seeming to understand is that there's an issue of degrees here. If it's not your hair, what's the issue? She can take your advice or not.

The OP's question was "is the new paper bag test?"....nah, it's the old ruler test. Slice it how you want, but dems the facts. I think we know full well there's tons of stuff lurking under the emphamism of "hair typing" that some folks aren't being honest about.

 

[Bene]

[

The OP's question was "is the new paper bag test?"....nah, it's the old ruler test.

After seeing what I've seen here, I'm going to say yes. It's not as blatant as the paper bag test, but in the ways that some people use it, it does become a way of determining a value.


I think comparing it to the ruler test isn't exactly how it works though. The ruler test was to hold a ruler up to the strands to see if they were as straight, right? If yes, it's hard to compare. I mean, the hair-typing thing goes both ways. If someone's hair isn't coily enough, isn't the validity of their advice (and ethnicity) automatically questioned as well?

Maybe the modern day version of the ruler test should be called the slinky/spiral test?

 

[jamaraa]

The "ruler test" is metaphorical, Bene. (I sometimes forget folks are incredibly literal-minded around here ) My point in using that phrase was that hair as well as skin was qualified by certain known externals things (ie a paper bag or a ruler). IOW, when you said "paper bag" than meant light...you didn't need to literally hold a bag up to someone to get your point across. The new hair typing system is far more subtle, yet serves the same purposes in a less politically incorrect way. It's "code" for determing many things about a person w/o directly asking them. Since most women don't show their faces, this code tells you more than you can see if such info interests you. In short, it CAN be used as a measuring stick and/or a way to find out about things about folks that isn't ascertainable just by reading their words.

The system as it was intended to be used (a way for people to find out what products are techniques would likely work best for them) is not ONLY how it's being used. Sure there are those who are using it as intended, but many more aren't? If they were, why so many meltdowns about it? How come people are asking "how come MY TYPE never gets praise" and the like? What does that have to do w/ products and techniques? Nothing. There are also those using this stuff to gratify their own ego and "gud huah" issues. I just wish folks would stop falling for the traps of the unspoken.

 

[jamaraa]

Bene I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't relaxed WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up.

Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?

 

[Irresistible]

Bene I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't relaxed WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up.

Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?

u and the giggle icon has me giggling now

 

[Bene]

The "ruler test" is metaphorical, Bene. (I sometimes forget folks are incredibly literal-minded around here ) My point in using that phrase was that hair as well as skin was qualified by certain known externals things (ie a paper bag or a ruler). IOW, when you said "paper bag" than meant light...you didn't need to literally hold a bag up to someone to get your point across. The new hair typing system is far more subtle, yet serves the same purposes in a less politically incorrect way. It's "code" for determing many things about a person w/o directly asking them. Since most women don't show their faces, this code tells you more than you can see if such info interests you. In short, it CAN be used as a measuring stick and/or a way to find out about things about folks that isn't ascertainable just by reading their words.

The system as it was intended to be used (a way for people to find out what products are techniques would likely work best for them) is not ONLY how it's being used. Sure there are those who are using it as intended, but many more aren't? If they were, why so many meltdowns about it? How come people are asking "how come MY TYPE never gets praise" and the like? What does that have to do w/ products and techniques? Nothing. There are also those using this stuff to gratify their own ego and "gud huah" issues. I just wish folks would stop falling for the traps of the unspoken.

Duuuuude, you have no idea. I'm about as literal minded as they come!!! Drives people absolutely batsh*t crazy

 

[jamaraa]

Bene Being literal-minded isn't going to help you understand these issues you seem to want to understand. It's far more subtle than not. I'd suggest you read some Black American and Black/Colored history on the matter. It's not really disputed that these issues were very real w/ very real consequences.

 

[Nya33]

Mmm ive only paid mind to it for the purpose of finding what my hair can thrive with.

 

[Supervixen]

Bene I'll tell you about an incident on the boards to illustrate my point. A new poster shows up w/ pics of her Afro. She's immediately asked "are you natural"? (Umm...how many relaxed heads are wearing 'fros? ) Her pics were clearly that of a natural who has a much looser texture than most folks who choose to wear Afros. OK..so what did I get from that? The code was asking if she was on the natural or relaxed "team" AND if she wasn't relaxed WHY is her hair so much straighter (mixed, etc..?) than most naturals here. Nobody had to come right out and ask it when they could do so in a more acceptable manner. That was a clear case of trying to size her up.

Tell me, what did that have to do w/ products or tips?

Great explanation.

Does this happen frequently though?

I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.

 

[MrsAriannaAmbers]

IMHO, lets call it what it is at this point LHCF High School...Its every bit of stepping back in high school. When you walk in through the PAID doors your sized up and then thrown into a group...whether it be by hair type, length, # of posts/threads and etc...if your threads don't include pics of your hair...your attacked. If you disagree/don't believe with someones about their ideals/beliefs/practices...someone has a smart a** remark. If your hair isn't up to someone's par...someone will def point it out and put you in PM land. If your not a certain hair type/length...you may/may not get any recognition/looks/responses. Its all juvenile and I had definitely not expected it when I joined but I don't think it will ever just go completely away either, nothing is 100%.

My expectations were when you get on LHCF whether you have pics, knowledge of haircare/products or you just want to let you short/long/natural/relaxed/texlaxed hair down that you are comfortable to do just that and have a great time. This shouldn't be a place that your panties are twisted up because you didn't meet someone's expectations. Don't we get enough of that in real life? With work, the kids, SO's and everything else life has to throw at us? Whether new, old or in the middle, we all come here for laughs, encouragement, support, advice and criticism (when done right).

The ideal would be can't we all get along at least in the haircare section!?! However I am definitely dreaming because as this is sholl called the internet...people are going to be people. That's why I have always said that a person's persona comes out every bit through the computer because they can hide behind a screen name and say/act every bit of who they are in real life. I can sit at my computer look at posts and let you know who has a life/friends, who's happy/miserable/vainglory, informational/helpful/insightful or who is just being petty/messy...It doesn't take much. Its not rocket science to know how you been acting on this forum...I say do you but I will definitely hit the ignore button on that a** when it comes to me...

I came to this forum so that I can agree, disagree and/or be enlightened. I don't really ever disagree in the HairCare area as handling my own hair is all foreign to me and I am learning at this point...Now when I grow my hair from my BC length to APL/MBL length then I can really discuss hair care practice with some knowledge...other than that I will keep it cute... and soak in all the haircare advice I can get on here...So if everyone has a little tact about what they say/how they respond to someone this should definitely be a pleasant experience for all.

Now to give ya'll a laugh cause yes, I had to go to work with it just like this (thank GOD I work in a call center and hoods can be worn)...I called myself doing a BC but ended up giving myself a mullet...DO NOT LAUGH...naw just kidding...enjoy P.S. Yea I was watching that Black Visa Card Video because she made it to World Star Hip Hop Videos where I watch my gossip/funny videos...

 

[jamaraa]

Great explanation.

Does this happen frequently though?

I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.

The last sentence I don't understand.

Yes, to the rest of it. It happens quite frequently I find.

 

[Supervixen]

Great explanation.

Does this happen frequently though?

I've seen, textlaxed and heat damaged are used also.

@ jamaraa

Instead of "Are you relaxed?" I've seen ladies say,

"Are you textlaxed?"
"You have heat damage."

to explain away why one's texture is looser than the viewer thinks it should be. Heck, it happened to me, even though I clearly stated I was NATURAL. Now that it's out there that it happens frequently, the OP is on to something.

I get that it's an old phenomenom, but it is being applied on this board regularly.

 

[jamaraa]

Cyd Otay as Buckwheat would say, I get ya! Yes, I've seen that one too.

 

[Embyra]

I didn't understand this until moving to the states. I didn't understand how someone like Halle Berry, who is more white than black, can be considered 'the most beautiful black woman'. I think I've even made posts on here about it. I've sense had time to think and speak to people about it. Along these lines, I understand how people here can consider themselves to be 'black' and not like being called 'African American' let alone just 'African'. If you're only 8 tablespoon African and the whole rest of your ancestry is non-African, you are 'black' but are you 'African American'? (maybe?) 'African'? (maybe not?)

It's interesting. Learning a lot in this country

im not american but i do find the obsession with hair texture and embracing your texture something that i CANNOT relate to african americans seem to deal with a lot or hold on to a lot of baggage and deep rooted insecruities when it comes to natural hair texture that black women like myself from other countries have never experienced before




one thing i have noticed on this forum in particular is that SOME of the natural haired black women on here all seem to assume we all have the same ''hair history'' and by that i mean that by going natural is the only way to except yourself not every black woman has been told her hair is nappy not every black woman cannot get a black man with her natural hair or runs into black men that do have ''issues'' with natural hair not every black woman has never seen there hair texture as they have always had a relaxer since day dot and not everyone black women self acceptance is wrapped up in there hair texture etc etc i know for some this will be hard to believe but it really is true when i was natural and now im relaxed i never felt ugly in either stage

EVERYONE in my family is natural ....except moi i have seen locs dreads old fashioned presses twist french pleats etc etc and in all of that our hair texture is all different and not once was a certain type classed as ''better''

people really give this hair typing more energy than it is needed the andre book was a guide not set in stone why cant people see it as JUST THAT??

the obsession with what other people think about your hair texture the amount of threads on here my co worker tod me my hair was nappy my boyfriend doesnt want me to go natural etc etc while i understand this is a place to vent etc until black people get a TRUE inner confidence only then will people understand what it means to DO YOU

 

[Embyra]

OT: Why do some keep asking why people are concerned with others' hair? Aren't we on a HAIR board? What - are we supposed to specifically AVOID discussing their hair?

obviously we are concerned with hair which is why we all paid the money to join lol but when i say people are obsessed with hair im meaning hair texture not hair in general

 

[lovenharmony]

I've seen all hair types get love on this board. People have their preferences but overall long healthy hair wins on this board. It doesnt have to be about not accepting your roots. Mwedzi has beautiful hair and so does CelinaStarr. I think we can admire more than one hair type.

I just had to quote this! I can only speak for myself, but I joined this forum to grow my hair long, so the hair typing thing never really was of much importance. I commend the ladies who BC no matter what! To this day I can't fully tell what my hair type is (combo of everything under the sun). All I know is that it's all mine and I couldn't be happier! There will always be the "good hair" mentality amongst women of color, but hopefully there will be more ladies that will come fully to accept their hair for what it is and be thankful that they can grow it at all cause in reality it truly is a vanity thing.

 

[katblack]

I have noticed lately a lot of people focusing extensively on hair type. To me it isn't that serious and never will be. However for many others it's something that makes them better than everybody else. When my mother was in Jack and Jill the paper bag test was something VERY real and in order to be apart of the group you should pass it Do you feel some people will place extra emphasis on letting you know that their is a "3a or 3b or the elusive 3c" when you haven't even asked for that information? Or even lie about the TRUE textures of their hair to fit into a certain "Club" How do you feel about the issue?? Thoughts?

SOO TRUE! The saddest part is, according to, Andre talks hair's book there IS no 3c.....

 

[Janet']

Hmm...After going back and reading through this thread...I can see different peoples' perspectives on this issue. I have mentioned a couple of times my "type", but mostly because the discussion called for such...I avoid using hair types because of the confusion. However, unfortunately, our "world" is made up of typing: race, gender, socioeconomic status, etc...I do think that at the end of the day, most (if not all) of us come here to feel empowered and gain knowledge...but, just like anywhere else (job, church, etc), a microcosm of the world (reality) can develop and all that comes along with that...very interesting thread, OP and great food for though IMHO.

 

[vainღ♥♡jane]

i don't think there is anything new about it. ♥

 

[NaturalBoss]

This is an interesting thread. I haven't read every post because I'm at work. I have no idea what my hair type is and I don't really care because I have yet to see any value (for me). I've been told it was a 4a, but heck it might be 4z or 3b....I don't know. My mom, sister and myself all have very different hair from each other but we use the same products and get the same results. So I don't need to know my hair type from a product perspective.

All I do know is that I can rock an afro puff and on the other side my hair can get silky straight with one pass of a hot comb or flat iron. After being straightened, my hair will revert back to nappy, kinky, curly, whatever, just the way I want it....so I love my hair no matter what the type is.

It's too bad that people find it necessary to lie about their hair type.

 

[aquajoyice]

I always thought it rather odd that the Feature of the Month hasn't displayed a member with natural 4 Type hair. It's either straight or curly, that was my own observation the last few times i've checked it out. And not to lessen those featured but there is definitely a trend. I think all hair types are beautiful and should be on display to give motivation to all with varied hair types. IMO