Why do u suppose God gave us shrinkage???

[ladylibra]

I feel that the reason so many of African decent view this as a curse is because they are stuck in European views of what is beautiful. I don’t feel my hair is anymore difficult to deal with than any other race, what becomes difficult is trying to CHANGE your natural texture into something that it is not. It’s just like someone with straight hair trying to tease it and give it texture daily any change from what is natural will be difficult.

and there you have it.

 

[Crissi]

I thought it shrunk for one reason...the curl pattern is really tight, the tighter the curl pattern the more it shrinks...so of course it would shrink, hmmm maybe im looking at it to simplistically...

 

[SignatureBeauty]

I heard that it is because Africa is hot, and the shrinkage will help keep our hair out of the way- therefore making us less hot. Also, white people have longer ears so that they can tuck their hair behind them. God knew what he was doing.

Those ears are big and long on some of them, I had a Friend come to mind when I read this.

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

I was truly scared to see what the reaction to this was going to be. I am so happy about the answers.

Edit: I wonder in 500 years would the 4a4b curl pattern have loosened significantly now that we have access to cooler climates, less sun and regular opportunities for water/moisture to be on our heads.

 

[Sweet_Ambrosia]

I thought it shrunk for one reason...the curl pattern is really tight, the tighter the curl pattern the more it shrinks...so of course it would shrink, hmmm maybe im looking at it to simplistically...

That's how I always viewed it too, simplistic but logical!

 

[RainbowCurls]

I wonder in 500 years would the 4a4b curl pattern have loosened significantly now that we have access to cooler climates, less sun and regular opportunities for water/moisture to be on our heads.

I doubt it, as evolution doesn't work in the way of "best suited to environment" for humans anymore.

 

[Bint Yusef]

I know God doesn't make any junk and this is the what he wanted us to have , but I have to say...and I know I am going to beat up for saying this, but if I could choose a type of hair I would not have chosen what I have. Although, I have received compliments my entire life for my hair and it does grow fast, I must admit that I cannot stand the time and effort it takes to make it look good. Even when I was a little girl and my mother was doing my hair I could not stand the tremendous effort it took and forget about when she said "you are old enough to do your hair yourself now!". I remember thinking "no I'm not" erplexed . I love my hair in it's natural state and I know it is stronger, but wash days were a pain in the *** and not to mention ducking and dodging humidity after pressing it, that's why I relax. Historically, I have never liked the work involved with caring for my hair and I do enjoy having a straight look. My mother has said several times, "you have nice hair, but you never liked doing your hair", that's why for the last 7 years or so, I have worn a short curly do, but would like to grow it out perhaps one last time in my life because I want to see if I can do it, there are also better products on the market for black hair than when I was younger (am I giving up my age ) and I have learned alot from this board. SSBD, you are not alone as I have thought this before too.

The problem is our definition of what looks good should probably be redefined. You spend hours getting your hair to look "good"=spending hours getting your hair to do something it really isnt naturally meant to do=Fitting into someone else standard of what beauty is.When folks are ready to reshift their framework, spending 232423423 hours on hair wont be a necessity.
But thats probably a whole other ball of wax....

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

If your accept the theory that African American hair is a simple adaptation to the hot, dry African climate instead of our hair being a permanent God created hair type does it ease any feelings of guilt because you relax?

When I read this post it just changed my prospective on being politically and staying “true” to your curly hair ancestry. I think our hair will change in a few generations. It did for every other race that originally came from Africa didn’t it?

Rainbow Curls I think humans are still adapting to our environments. I once read a theory that we will eventually adapt out of our pinkies . Explain why human adaptation doesn't work anymore. I might need to switch back to my original ideas.

 

[ladylibra]

I was truly scared to see what the reaction to this was going to be. I am so happy about the answers.

Edit: I wonder in 500 years would the 4a4b curl pattern have loosened significantly now that we have access to cooler climates, less sun and regular opportunities for water/moisture to be on our heads.

nope...

let's say there were only 2 kinds of people in Africa - half of them had dark skin and type 4a4b hair, while the other half had pale skin and type 1 hair. the darker ones would be better adapted to the environment would survive, and the pale ones with 1 hair would probably die off and therefore not pass on their genes to the next generation. so only the people with dark skin and 4a4b hair would have kids, and those kids would exhibit those same traits. if they didn't for whatever reason, they'd end up dying off too and not passing their genes on.

i know that's an oversimplified explanation, but you get the idea.

 

[ladylibra]

If your accept the theory that African American hair is a simple adaptation to the hot, dry African climate instead of our hair being a permanent God created hair type does it ease any feelings of guilt because you relax?

When I read this post it just changed my prospective on being politically and staying “true” to your curly hair ancestry. I think our hair will change in a few generations. It did for every other race that originally came from Africa didn’t it?

Rainbow Curls I think humans are still adapting to our environments. I once read a theory that we will eventually adapt out of our pinkies . Explain why human adaptation doesn't work anymore. I might need to switch back to my original ideas.

other races have different hair due to genetic mutations and possibly interbreeding with Neanderthals. since that particular hair mutation was better suited for the environment they lived in, it dominated.

adaptation is a bit different from evolution. unfortunately it's getting late so i will have to come back tomorrow to explain this...

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

nope...

let's say there were only 2 kinds of people in Africa - half of them had dark skin and type 4a4b hair, while the other half had pale skin and type 1 hair. the darker ones would be better adapted to the environment would survive, and the pale ones with 1 hair would probably die off and therefore not pass on their genes to the next generation. so only the people with dark skin and 4a4b hair would have kids, and those kids would exhibit those same traits. if they didn't for whatever reason, they'd end up dying off too and not passing their genes on.

i know that's an oversimplified explanation, but you get the idea.

I see what your saying but as far as hair goes we nurture it and this is ensuring that we don't loose the trait. Maybe I'm tired and need to sleep on it but right now it seems that since we are nurturing our hair we are forcing it to adapt to the new environment i.e. change texture.

 

[Sha76]

Ok, There is this video on Discovery channel.. I watched it years ago called the real Eve. It stated the migration pattern of man based on DNA tests from thousands of people throughout the world.

You see there is this gene that everyone caries but unlike other races the gene is the same, africans having many different strands of it. But through studying different races from all over the world the genes are similar to one another with except for one difference. These differences can be linked to show how each was evolved and migrated.


Well to sum it up from that research it shows that life began in Africa, some then left and went to the middle east traveled then to Asia then to North America and next South America and finally Europe. It is not know how they migrated in this path.

But, it also explains reasons for some of the traits that evolved from this migration.

If I remember correctly, African hair was the result the sun and this hold water to head head for longer periods of time keeping the head cool. Shrinkage would have this function. These changes also happened over 10s of thousands of years.

We have not been in this climate long enough to evolve.

( I may have got some of the facts form this documentary wrong, but here is the page of the Steven Oppenheimer who did the research ...<html>http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/</html>)

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

other races have different hair due to genetic mutations and possibly interbreeding with Neanderthals. since that particular hair mutation was better suited for the environment they lived in, it dominated.

adaptation is a bit different from evolution. unfortunately it's getting late so i will have to come back tomorrow to explain this...

Definantly time to go to bed.

 

[ladylibra]

Definantly time to go to bed.

LOL ok... i will attempt to do this quickly.

structural adaptations (physical changes) do not happen on any one person right away. a gene mutation might be passed on to your child, and later on down the line that gene mutation proves to be beneficial. for example, if all giraffes were short-necked and your children happened to be born with abnormally long necks. but say a food shortage comes about, and the only vegetation you have is leaves up in the trees. you can't stretch your neck a little bit more day after day until it gets longer - you will always have a short neck because it's in your genes. your long-necked children will be able to eat the leaves and survive, and pass their genes on with another long-necked mate, which would better ensure their children having long necks and being able to better survive.

the change in genes in a population over a period of time is evolution. the gene pool was short-necked giraffes, but when many years later one will find that gene has been replaced by a gene for long necks. the mutated gene is the adaptation; the prevalence of that gene's survival in the population over time is evolution.

i hope that clears things up a bit...

 

[caribeandiva]

why so much shrinkage? so we can appreciate a good flatiron even more.

 

[Lynnerie]

This is a very interesting post. It makes me think of how whites have more body hair in general to protect from the cold too and the shape of their noses is from living in Europe's high altitude for example. Also, my mom is from Alabama and lived there for 20 years she was very dark skin until she moved to Pennsylvania, she lost much of her color and is now just brown. She always complains about how she "lost her color" when she moved. Now, I notice a difference from African-American's hair and straight African's hair. Anybody know what I'm talking about? Particularly West Africa, so maybe our hair has changed from being over here since our ancestors were slaves.

 

[Bint Yusef]

This is a very interesting post. It makes me think of how whites have more body hair in general to protect from the cold too and the shape of their noses is from living in Europe's high altitude for example. Also, my mom is from Alabama and lived there for 20 years she was very dark skin until she moved to Pennsylvania, she lost much of her color and is now just brown. She always complains about how she "lost her color" when she moved. Now, I notice a difference from African-American's hair and straight African's hair. Anybody know what I'm talking about? Particularly West Africa, so maybe our hair has changed from being over here since our ancestors were slaves.

Adaptation does not happen in that short of a time span.

What you are seeing is a result of race mixing (read genetic mutation) in regards to the difference between diaspora and continental African's hair.

 

[Lynnerie]

Adaptation does not happen in that short of a time span.

What you are seeing is a result of race mixing (read genetic mutation) in regards to the difference between diaspora and continental African's hair.

Thanks for answering so soon.
I see what you're saying but I guess I meant myself in general. I'm not mixed but at the same time, I guess if we're in America we all got something extra mixed in our blood. lol

 

[RainbowCurls]

Rainbow Curls I think humans are still adapting to our environments. I once read a theory that we will eventually adapt out of our pinkies . Explain why human adaptation doesn't work anymore. I might need to switch back to my original ideas.

Because of modern medicine. People don't die out if they're not suited to the environment. But then humans kind of control the environment too.

I'll leave it to ladylibra to explain, I think she's better at it than me

[size=-2]What's this adaptation thing then? How is it different from evolution?[/size]

 

[FlowerHair]

In order to be able to have curly or coily hair you must accept shrinkage... Otherwise there would be no curls.

Do we ask, why did God make one flower red and another one blue? Why does one have frizzy petals and another flat petals? We want them all in our bouquets. It's just nature, diversity and variety is vital for the survival of the human race.

 

[Isis]

I've learned at one time (before the Biblical flood) the Earth was the same climate globally, probably around 70 degrees or so and certainly no harshness from the sun's UV rays (we and the planet was protected), no snow, just very beautiful, moderate temperatures. Yet, the three races all had the traits that they still have today, including kinky/wooly hair for some. It wasn't that long ago.

ETA: I agree with an earlier post and I posted in the past that blacks are not the only race with kinky hair.

 

[ladylibra]

This is a very interesting post. It makes me think of how whites have more body hair in general to protect from the cold too and the shape of their noses is from living in Europe's high altitude for example. Also, my mom is from Alabama and lived there for 20 years she was very dark skin until she moved to Pennsylvania, she lost much of her color and is now just brown. She always complains about how she "lost her color" when she moved. Now, I notice a difference from African-American's hair and straight African's hair. Anybody know what I'm talking about? Particularly West Africa, so maybe our hair has changed from being over here since our ancestors were slaves.

yeah, and white people go tanning so they are darker from UV exposure. but they're not gonna give birth to children who are naturally darker - it's still hard-wired in their genes to have pale skin.

 

[ladylibra]

Because of modern medicine. People don't die out if they're not suited to the environment. But then humans kind of control the environment too.

I'll leave it to ladylibra to explain, I think she's better at it than me

[size=-2]What's this adaptation thing then? How is it different from evolution?[/size]

sorry to keep hijacking the thread y'all...

adaptations are things that ensure survival so we can procreate. structural adaptations are physical changes (genetic mutations) within a species. the wider the gene variation, the more likely that if something crazy happens in the environment, the species will not die out completely. like i said with the giraffes, if they all had short necks and the only food is leaves on the trees, they'd all die out. but if some of them happened to have long necks, they would survive, so the entire species wouldn't die out. (there are also behavioral and psychological adaptations, but for simplicity i won't get into that right now.)

evolution is a change in the gene pool over time. some structural adaptations are better suited for a certain environment, so you will see the genes for that adaptation the most in a population. if something about the environment changes, the species must adapt to survive. that means some individuals will die off but some will survive. for example the giraffes' food shortage came about because a nomadic group of small short animals came thru and ate up all the grass and shrubbery. now the environment is different, so only those with long necks who can eat tree leaves can survive. the short-necked giraffes die out, only the long-neck giraffes live and they have more long-necked giraffe babies generation after generation. the gene pool went from being a short-necked majority to a long-necked majority.

see, adaptation and evolution are tied together, but they are not the same thing. now my nerdy self is going to go eat breakfast...

 

[BrownSkin2]

I was truly scared to see what the reaction to this was going to be. I am so happy about the answers.

Edit: I wonder in 500 years would the 4a4b curl pattern have loosened significantly now that we have access to cooler climates, less sun and regular opportunities for water/moisture to be on our heads.

This history channel I was watching was talking about evolution of man, and it stated that it takes 20,000 years for a change to happen..

 

[ClassicBeauty]

sorry to keep hijacking the thread y'all...

adaptations are things that ensure survival so we can procreate. structural adaptations are physical changes (genetic mutations) within a species. the wider the gene variation, the more likely that if something crazy happens in the environment, the species will not die out completely. like i said with the giraffes, if they all had short necks and the only food is leaves on the trees, they'd all die out. but if some of them happened to have long necks, they would survive, so the entire species wouldn't die out. (there are also behavioral and psychological adaptations, but for simplicity i won't get into that right now.)

evolution is a change in the gene pool over time. some structural adaptations are better suited for a certain environment, so you will see the genes for that adaptation the most in a population. if something about the environment changes, the species must adapt to survive. that means some individuals will die off but some will survive. for example the giraffes' food shortage came about because a nomadic group of small short animals came thru and ate up all the grass and shrubbery. now the environment is different, so only those with long necks who can eat tree leaves can survive. the short-necked giraffes die out, only the long-neck giraffes live and they have more long-necked giraffe babies generation after generation. the gene pool went from being a short-necked majority to a long-necked majority.

see, adaptation and evolution are tied together, but they are not the same thing. now my nerdy self is going to go eat breakfast...

You're absolutely correct, evolution sounds like the much better word for this subject.

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

This is a very interesting post. It makes me think of how whites have more body hair in general to protect from the cold too and the shape of their noses is from living in Europe's high altitude for example. Also, my mom is from Alabama and lived there for 20 years she was very dark skin until she moved to Pennsylvania, she lost much of her color and is now just brown. She always complains about how she "lost her color" when she moved. Now, I notice a difference from African-American's hair and straight African's hair. Anybody know what I'm talking about? Particularly West Africa, so maybe our hair has changed from being over here since our ancestors were slaves.

Libralady: we really did hijack the post. Sorry everyone.

Cluslessaka: ITA my mom got lighter also by about 2 shades when she came to Michigan from Arkansas over a 20 year period.

BrownSkin2: I agree that it may take closer to 20,000 years for our hair to change.

However, I don't think the 4a4b trait will be eternal in my family if we stayed in a cooler environment and had regular access to wetting our hair. I think the mutations you talk about are the beginings of the body adapting to the new environment. All adaptations don't have to be survival related. Our skin on our feet and hands are not as thick as they were. The nails on of feet and toes are much thinner than centuries ago. Were taller now. These are not survival related changes these are adaptations to nutrition and environment. Better nutrition so were taller. We have power tools, shovels, better shoes and lotions to breakdown the skin and moisturize so our nails are not as durable as they once were.

 

[ladylibra]

Exactly! My mom got lighter also by about 2 shades when she came to Michigan from Arkansas over a 20 year period. I agree that it may take longer than 500 years for our hair to change but I don't think the trait will be eternal in my family. I think the mutations you talk about are the beginings of the body adapting hair.

yes but that is a temporary change, you understand... if your mom was to have another baby the child would not be born lighter just because she moved to an environment with less sunshine. it doesn't work that way. her genes code for dark skin, so the baby will have dark skin.

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

yes but that is a temporary change, you understand... if your mom was to have another baby the child would not be born lighter just because she moved to an environment with less sunshine. it doesn't work that way. her genes code for dark skin, so the baby will have dark skin.

Okay I will buy the temporary change, but how many generations will it take for the temporary change to become permanent? I don't believe our body would just ignore the environment for that long and continue to pump out the same traits without adapting. I am looking at it with fresh eyes this morning. I do see how a dominant or recessive gene in a parent will be necessary to change our hair but my thing is where are the recessive genes coming from? I think adaptation. I should have paid attention more in genetics class.

 

[EbonyHairedPrincess]

Don't get mad at me ladies I am hard headed and stubborn. I think it's a dominant gene.

 

[ladylibra]

Don't get mad at me ladies I am hard headed and stubborn. I think it's a dominant gene.

LOL you're silly!

it's not just about dominant and recessive genes... it's about gene mutations too.

we humans are not really at the mercy of our environment like our ancestors. white people aren't going to die in Africa because they live in houses with air conditioning. sure they're going to get a tan because they're out in the sun more, but that's it. their genes will always be hard-wired to help them survive in a cold climate. black people aren't going to die living in Michigan because it's cold and snowy and their hair isn't like white people's or like animal fur. we turn on the heat and wear warmer clothes and coats.

those are behavioral adaptations i wasn't going to get into. this eliminates the need for a structural adaptation, therefore someone with less-capable genes can still survive and pass on their less-capable genes. so those less-capable genes continue to stick around instead of dying out as they would without this behavioral adaptation. it's actually a good thing because like i said before, genetic variation ensures the survival of the species. so if you can continue to promote wide genetic variation instead of being limited, the human race is less likely to die out.

this stuff gets confusing, i know...

*also EbonyHairedPrincess i would not get mad at you... you don't necessarily have to agree with me - even though i think i'm right, LOL i get into debates with people all the time about whether or not the Neanderthals interbred with Homo sapiens (humans) or not. i believe they did but some people are die-hard believers that they didn't. who's to say really?