What conditioner do you use for relax-condition-neutralize?

[Neith]

I've been using coconut milk. I just love the way it makes my hair feel soft and moist.

This is in part a spin off from another thread. I never thought about whether there is PROTEIN in coconut milk.

Of course there is...there are light proteins in it.

I always realized that my hair regains a little more texture after the neutralizing process.

Is that normal? Should the conditioners used for this process be completely protein free?

 

[Christa438]

I was using both MNT moisturize-texturize cond. and MNT moisturizing conditioner when I was texlaxing. Then I switched to Motions Moisture Plus the last time I texlaxed. I dont know if they should be completely protein-free, but I definitely think they shouldn't be protein-full. I think a moisturizing conditioner w/ light protein is okay because the relaxer makes the hair weaker anyway. If I kept texlaxing, I would've went back to MNT, I liked them more.

 

[gymfreak336]

The whole point of this step is to add a little protein to the hair while the cuticle is open. I use joico kpak.

 

[Dee-Licious]

I use DuoTex in the big white bottle with orange writing.

 

[MizaniLocs]

The whole point of this step is to add a little protein to the hair while the cuticle is open. I use joico kpak.

Yes. If you're scared of protein for some reason you may want to exclude this step all together. It becomes moot if you use a strictly moisturizing conditioner with no protein.

I use Aphogee Keratin Reconstructor.

 

[BrownBetty]

I use Keraphix, old formula. I have about 8 oz left.

 

[prospurr4]

The whole point of this step is to add a little protein to the hair while the cuticle is open. I use joico kpak.

Exactly! I use Motions CPR Protein Reconstructor.

 

[Sistaslick]

I've been using coconut milk. I just love the way it makes my hair feel soft and moist.

This is in part a spin off from another thread. I never thought about whether there is PROTEIN in coconut milk.

Of course there is...there are light proteins in it.

I always realized that my hair regains a little more texture after the neutralizing process.

Is that normal? Should the conditioners used for this process be completely protein free?

ITA with Gym.

It's normal to regain some texture after neutralizing, even up until a few washes out from a relaxer. You'd get that result with just water minus all the products. Relaxers break disulfide bonds primarily & some hydrogen bonds in the hair too . . . you smooth the broken bonds into specific orientation (straight!) with your fingers/hands- and that's the straightening process. As soon as you begin introducing water to your hair (rinsing the relaxer out after having smoothed it) you'll start to see some texture come back if your smoothing process was not thorough.

The protein strengthens your hair at that critical phase, but it cannot repair broken disulfide bonds. That texture you're seeing is a result of hydrogen re-bonding, not the protein.

I use either Aphogee 2minute keratin or Joico K-pak.

 

[Neith]

Oh, I was not aware that it's normal to regain texture after a relaxer.

If someone posted that their relaxer reverted, a bunch of people would say that's impossible

I was worried that my hair is reverting a lot more than it should if I use protein.

Thanks for clearing things up.

 

[gymfreak336]

ITA with Gym.

It's normal to regain some texture after neutralizing, even up until a few washes out from a relaxer. You'd get that result with just water minus all the products. Relaxers break disulfide bonds primarily & some hydrogen bonds in the hair too . . . you smooth the broken bonds into specific orientation (straight!) with your fingers/hands- and that's the straightening process. As soon as you begin introducing water to your hair (rinsing the relaxer out after having smoothed it) you'll start to see some texture come back if your smoothing process was not thorough.

The protein strengthens your hair at that critical phase, but it cannot repair broken disulfide bonds. That texture you're seeing is a result of hydrogen re-bonding, not the protein.

I use either Aphogee 2minute keratin or Joico K-pak.

You gotta love chemistry. Thanks for breaking it down.

 

[Sistaslick]

Oh, I was not aware that it's normal to regain texture after a relaxer.

If someone posted that their relaxer reverted, a bunch of people would say that's impossible

I was worried that my hair is reverting a lot more than it should if I use protein.

Thanks for clearing things up.

Well, the texture that is regained was never fully relaxed in the first place. It's underprocessed hair. 100% fully processed hair cannot revert because the relaxing process is indeed VERY permanent. (That's probably why some would disagree with you that your "relaxer reverted" ) For hair to go back to its pre-relaxer texture, di-sulfide bonds would still need to be intact. Its more of a technical argument, I guess.

You could easily relax to what looks like 100%, but when you wet your hair and little waves start popping up over time-- you see your 100% may have actually been 80%. It's the exposure to water that brings this out, not the protein. And its really a classic example of one of those "correlation does not equal causation things." If protein had the ability to do this, then every protein treatment you do would re-texturize your hair-- and there'd be no "big chops" or TWAs because folk would be Aphogee-ing it up to go natural.

I'm one of the ones where it takes a few washes for my relaxed texture to fully come out. My hair is usually pretty flat following a relaxer- even after my mid-protein step, but by wash 2-- it's fluffed back out some.

 

[Sistaslick]

You gotta love chemistry. Thanks for breaking it down.

Only when it's dealing with hair, only with hair.

 

[gymfreak336]

Only when it's dealing with hair, only with hair.

That is why I only really enjoyed organic Please don't give me thermodynamics

 

[Neith]

Well, the texture that is regained was never fully relaxed in the first place. It's underprocessed hair. 100% fully processed hair cannot revert because the relaxing process is indeed VERY permanent. (That's probably why some would disagree with you that your "relaxer reverted" ) For hair to go back to its pre-relaxer texture, di-sulfide bonds would still need to be intact. Its more of a technical argument, I guess.

You could easily relax to what looks like 100%, but when you wet your hair and little waves start popping up over time-- you see your 100% may have actually been 80%. It's the exposure to water that brings this out, not the protein. And its really a classic example of one of those "correlation does not equal causation things." If protein had the ability to do this, then every protein treatment you do would re-texturize your hair-- and there'd be no "big chops" or TWAs because folk would be Aphogee-ing it up to go natural.

I'm one of the ones where it takes a few washes for my relaxed texture to fully come out. My hair is usually pretty flat following a relaxer- even after my mid-protein step, but by wash 2-- it's fluffed back out some.

I never believed in protein reversion. I never believed in any type of reversion before my last relaxer experience.

I just thought that BEFORE neutralizing, protein MAY have an affect on hair because of the unique state the hair is in... based on my experience of my hair kinking up more.

I wasn't aware that water could cause "reversion" though. Totally new concept. Thanks.

 

[Sistaslick]

I never believed in protein reversion. I never believed in any type of reversion before my last relaxer experience.

I just thought that BEFORE neutralizing, protein MAY have an affect on hair because of the unique state the hair is in... based on my experience of my hair kinking up more.

I wasn't aware that water could cause "reversion" though. Totally new concept. Thanks.

Yeah, a similar process happens when you heat style your hair (which also breaks internal hydrogen bonds) and then you step outside in humid air. Your hair reincorporates some of the hydrogen from the moisture in the air-- and what happens... poof!

Hydrogen bonding is really, really, really important in hair care, especially in permanent chemical processes like our relaxers and "curly perrms" where di-sulfide bonding tends to steal all the spotlight. So yes, there is a chemical explanation for hair appearing to "revert"-- and its the culmination of lingering/intact disulfide bonds and the presence of hydrogen re-bonding.

Proteins are good at many things, but even hydrolized/quarternized, proteins do not have the capacity or ability to re-build disulfide bonds- no matter how open the cuticle may be at that point. The mid-protein step done for deeper penetration and deeper conditioning- and many relaxer systems contain this step just for that reason. (Mine doesn't so I add it!)

You're also assuming that neutralizing begins with the "shampoo" which is not really the case. The pHs of the protein conditioners (acidic) help them work as part of the neutralizing process. They are neutralizing your hair even as they deposit protein. Sorry I'm long winded girl

 

[jrae]

....
You're also assuming that neutralizing begins with the "shampoo" which is not really the case. The pHs of the protein conditioners (acidic) help them work as part of the neutralizing process. They are neutralizing your hair even as they deposit protein. Sorry I'm long winded girl

Not long winded at all! Very educational. Thanks!