Wait..Why do we rinse conditioner with cold water again?
- Thread starter lilamae
- Start date
LunadeMiel
Well-Known Member
locabouthair
Well-Known Member
Yup...cold water helps to close the cuticle.
yep and this is supposed to give the hair shine. Never worked for me though.
TaurusAngel
New Member
I like using cold water on my hair. It, for some reason makes my hair less tangled. It also is more easier to manage.
Cleve_gryl
New Member
Cold water does the opposite for me
. Makes my hair hard. I always rinse with warm...cold water never gave me any extra shine either.SleepyJean
Well-Known Member
Gymfreak told me to do this once, but I didn't know why. I didn't want to bother her. She told me this while explaining porosity to me. Maybe she'll come by. I believe she said the cuticle is more smooth, and that definitely deals with porosity.
OH......I think I got it! It helps maintain a neutral or healthy porosity. Yea for me!
Now....idk how. I'm itching for new info to print!!!
OH......I think I got it! It helps maintain a neutral or healthy porosity. Yea for me!
Now....idk how. I'm itching for new info to print!!!
Last edited:
TaurusAngel
New Member
Cold water does the opposite for me
Yeah, i don't think its for everyone. But i read in a magazine a while ago that its locks in moisture, especially if u have dry hair. Maybe your hair retains moisture no matter what. I don't know
SleepyJean
Well-Known Member
Why is a closed cuticle important ne ways? That is probably what I was confused about. What does a closed cuticle even mean? Please excuse my ignorance, but I really don't know and would like to know.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
I'm still not decided on this issue of cold water closing cuticles. I was challenged to do an experiment and haven't gotten round to it yet, so until I do, I can't comment. For now, I'm not convinced. What I'm SURE about is that the pH of the hair determines whether cuticles stay opened or closed. What I think cold water does is not rinse out the conditioner completely so that some coating is left on the hair to protect the strands. That's my 2 cents--until I do my experiment when I might sing a different tune.
Why is it important to have closed cuticles? Because closed cuticles mean smooth hair strands which means less tangling and less likelihood for damage to occur. Here are diagrams to explain.
The top layer of your hair strands is the cuticle which looks like overlapping scales not unlike what you see on fish:
That's kinda how your hair looks towards the base of the hair strands, where the hair is fairly new and so hasn't endured much wear and tear.
Further up along the hair strands, towards the ends, the scales are slightly lifted, due to normal manipulation that causes friction between strands:
The more open the cuticle, the more easily it is for the scales to be ripped off as in the pic below of a cuticle damaged by backcombing heavily sprayed hair:
You can imagine if you have strands that are in that shape, they'll hook onto each other and tangle like no one's business. Also any manipulation to hair that looks like that leads to the scales being yanked off exposing the cortex.
In the pic below, some of the cuticle has ripped off and the protein strands of the cortex (the central part of hair strands) can be seen:
Continued damage leads to:
And then the cortex starts to split apart (split ends):
So you see, a closed cuticle is a safeguard against hair damage. Hard water whose pH is high opens hair cuticles and makes the strands rough so that they exert more friction on each other (damage) and also tangle more easily. What's more, raised scales make the hair dull as it doesn't reflect light properly so it doesn't appear to shine. So it's worthwhile investing in a shower filter, an acidic shampoo and good conditioners to coat your hair and further ensure that strands glide smoothly against each other. Did I mention an apple cider vinegar rinse is a good way to ensure that your cuticles close?
The one time it is necessary to open the cuticles is when relaxing our hair. It is necessary to open the scales for the relaxer to go inide the strands and break bonds to get the hair straight. That's why relaxers (eg lye) are alkaline. But after the processing, a neutralizer is used to close the cuticles again and bring the pH back down to it's normal acidic one.
(The pics are courtesy of the P&G Beauty Science website. You can read more about cuticles and how they get damaged in this chapter on the site.)
Why is it important to have closed cuticles? Because closed cuticles mean smooth hair strands which means less tangling and less likelihood for damage to occur. Here are diagrams to explain.
The top layer of your hair strands is the cuticle which looks like overlapping scales not unlike what you see on fish:
That's kinda how your hair looks towards the base of the hair strands, where the hair is fairly new and so hasn't endured much wear and tear.
Further up along the hair strands, towards the ends, the scales are slightly lifted, due to normal manipulation that causes friction between strands:
The more open the cuticle, the more easily it is for the scales to be ripped off as in the pic below of a cuticle damaged by backcombing heavily sprayed hair:
You can imagine if you have strands that are in that shape, they'll hook onto each other and tangle like no one's business. Also any manipulation to hair that looks like that leads to the scales being yanked off exposing the cortex.
In the pic below, some of the cuticle has ripped off and the protein strands of the cortex (the central part of hair strands) can be seen:
Continued damage leads to:
And then the cortex starts to split apart (split ends):
So you see, a closed cuticle is a safeguard against hair damage. Hard water whose pH is high opens hair cuticles and makes the strands rough so that they exert more friction on each other (damage) and also tangle more easily. What's more, raised scales make the hair dull as it doesn't reflect light properly so it doesn't appear to shine. So it's worthwhile investing in a shower filter, an acidic shampoo and good conditioners to coat your hair and further ensure that strands glide smoothly against each other. Did I mention an apple cider vinegar rinse is a good way to ensure that your cuticles close?
The one time it is necessary to open the cuticles is when relaxing our hair. It is necessary to open the scales for the relaxer to go inide the strands and break bonds to get the hair straight. That's why relaxers (eg lye) are alkaline. But after the processing, a neutralizer is used to close the cuticles again and bring the pH back down to it's normal acidic one.
(The pics are courtesy of the P&G Beauty Science website. You can read more about cuticles and how they get damaged in this chapter on the site.)
thefineprint
Well-Known Member
wow, thanks for breaking it down nonie!
filthyfresh
New Member
Those pics are scary. I was like, my poor hair!
I've been scared straight into rinsing with cold water.
I've been scared straight into rinsing with cold water.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
Sweetgal, I never use cold water. I use lukewarm. I honestly think that the only thing we're to avoid is stripping the hair which would happen with very hot water. I honestly don't think cold water does anymore good than lukewarm. Both will not remove the conditioning coat. On the other hand, rinsing with cold hard water does your hair no good whatsoever! The hard water has a high pH which is conducive for opening cuticles so instead of worrying to much about using cold water, I think people should focus on using neutral water or an acid solution as a final rinse because I know--and there's enough scientific info out there--that it is the pH and not the temperature that closes cuticles. If anyone can point me to some scientific info on cuticles closing due to cold water--not forum discussions that echo this hypothesis, but actual info from scientists--I will stand corrected. The only thing I can say against using hot water is that it will strip off the coating left behind by conditioner and thus remove the extra slip you got from conditioning. But lukewarm or cold water will not. But that's JMHO.
AsTheCurlzTurns
Active Member
Nonie, thanks for all this info, it definitely makes perfect sense the way you broke it all done like this. And now I had better get with the program, cause I was definitely not doing this right.
It~Can~Grow
New Member
So is the ACV the last rinse after DC conditioner, but before the leave in?
Also, I generally see the discussion of ACV mostly during naturals questions...does this rule still apply to us 'permies?'
Thank you
Also, I generally see the discussion of ACV mostly during naturals questions...does this rule still apply to us 'permies?'
Thank you
ravenmerlita
New Member
Sealing the cuticle with cold water looks like an excellent idea, but for me it would require ending my shower with a cold blast of water. I personally think I'd hate it unless I did it during the summer months.
ITA. I wash and condition my hair in the shower. I just can't be that uncomfortable. I wonder if it would work to put some ice cold water in a spray bottle and spray my hair when I get out?
SleepyJean
Well-Known Member
I'm still not decided on this issue of cold water closing cuticles. I was challenged to do an experiment and haven't gotten round to it yet, so until I do, I can't comment. For now, I'm not convinced. What I'm SURE about is that the pH of the hair determines whether cuticles stay opened or closed. What I think cold water does is not rinse out the conditioner completely so that some coating is left on the hair to protect the strands. That's my 2 cents--until I do my experiment when I might sing a different tune.
Why is it important to have closed cuticles? Because closed cuticles mean smooth hair strands which means less tangling and less likelihood for damage to occur. Here are diagrams to explain.
The top layer of your hair strands is the cuticle which looks like overlapping scales not unlike what you see on fish:
That's kinda how your hair looks towards the base of the hair strands, where the hair is fairly new and so hasn't endured much wear and tear.
Further up along the hair strands, towards the ends, the scales are slightly lifted, due to normal manipulation that causes friction between strands:
The more open the cuticle, the more easily it is for the scales to be ripped off as in the pic below of a cuticle damaged by backcombing heavily sprayed hair:
You can imagine if you have strands that are in that shape, they'll hook onto each other and tangle like no one's business. Also any manipulation to hair that looks like that leads to the scales being yanked off exposing the cortex.
In the pic below, some of the cuticle has ripped off and the protein strands of the cortex (the central part of hair strands) can be seen:
Continued damage leads to:
And then the cortex starts to split apart (split ends):
So you see, a closed cuticle is a safeguard against hair damage. Hard water whose pH is high opens hair cuticles and makes the strands rough so that they exert more friction on each other (damage) and also tangle more easily. What's more, raised scales make the hair dull as it doesn't reflect light properly so it doesn't appear to shine. So it's worthwhile investing in a shower filter, an acidic shampoo and good conditioners to coat your hair and further ensure that strands glide smoothly against each other. Did I mention an apple cider vinegar rinse is a good way to ensure that your cuticles close?
The one time it is necessary to open the cuticles is when relaxing our hair. It is necessary to open the scales for the relaxer to go inide the strands and break bonds to get the hair straight. That's why relaxers (eg lye) are alkaline. But after the processing, a neutralizer is used to close the cuticles again and bring the pH back down to it's normal acidic one.
(The pics are courtesy of the P&G Beauty Science website. You can read more about cuticles and how they get damaged in this chapter on the site.)
Wow...This is excellent information!! Thank you!
I have another page to go in the "Binder of Hair Inquiries". Who are you telling???
Last edited:
SleepyJean
Well-Known Member
I understand what you're saying. To help retain this information, I'm just going to paraphrase. Please tell me if I'm correct.
It really has nothing to do with the temperature of the water. Smooth cuticles are achieved by a neutral pH level. Cold water and hot water will BOTH have a high pH levels if they are in an area with hard water. It is actually important to get a water filter and/or acidic conditioner if you're attemping to hamper overly porous hair. Cold water strips your hair much less, thus maintaining the pH level and "slip" of the product that was previously rinsed, but its pH level is no different from hot water.
Last edited:
Saida
New Member
Thanks.. im waiting for Nonies answer on this too, I like how you understood that
Nonie
Well-Known Member
Smooth cuticles are achieved when hair is at its normal pH which is slightly acidic. So assuming hair is at its normal level (acidic) then neutral water keeps it that way so cuticles stay closed. Water filters remove compounds in water that would make it hard/alkaline so that it isn't opening your cuticles when you rinse out your hair, especially after rinsing out conditioners. Using acidic shampoos helps keep cuticles closed, although most shampoos are alkaline. Conditioners are acidic so regardless of what shampoo you use, they are an important part of your wash and should not be skipped. They also leave a thin coating on your hair to provide slip. Doing an ACV rinse at the end of your wash is also a good way to ensure your hair is left in an acidic state ie with cuticles closed. When I said cold water doesn't strip your hair as much as hot, I wasn't talking about pH but just the coating and moisturizing properties that the conditioner leaves on your hair. I imagine hot water would wash it away more easily than cold thus removing the benefit it is supposed to provide. But I don't like cold water on my head so I use lukewarm because I believe it too would not strip the hair either, the way hot water might.
Everything else I didn't highlight is basically what I was trying to say.
sweetgal
New Member
Nonie
Well-Known Member
That's how I do it. But there are people who do it after the shampooing before the conditioner and have good results too. So try either and see which one works for you. Conditioners are generally acidic so they leave your hair in that smooth state that an ACV rinse would. I just like it at the end of my wash because I dunk my head in the bucket and give my scalp a good massage so that there's no conditioner residue on my scalp that might make my head itch. I do it with lukewarm water so there's no fear off washing off the conditioning properties just received from conditioner.
I know a lot of permies who use ACV rinse in their regimen. If I'm not mistaken, Allandra has had a lot of good success with them. I believe she does hers before the conditioner.
Last edited:
Nonie
Well-Known Member
Apple cider vinegar added to your final rinse. You don't need much. Just about 1/4 cup in a basin of water or a couple of tablespoons in a gallon of water. Then you pour it over your head. Or you can do it like I do: Put it in a basin or bucket and dunk your head in it. (I do this after first rinsing out every trace of conditioner with my shower head.) Then while head's submerged in the ACV solution, I massage my scalp to my heart's content while letting my hair enjoy the acidic environment. If you like you can add essential oils to the solution. I add rosemary, lavendar, and sometimes liquid sage, when I have it. All are good for your hair and scalp, plus they help reduce the vinegar smell, although once your hair dries, you cannot smell the vinegar at all even if you used it plain, so it's OK if you don't use the EOs.
HAIRapy
SuperDuper Member
ITA, I've done my homework on the subject and I believe that cold water rinse won't make any difference. I was happy when I heard that cold water doesn't make a difference because running cold water over my head is so uncomfortable- unless it's summertime
shunta
New Member
Cold water does the opposite for me
Same here.
erplexedSimilar threads
