UMMM What do you think of this?

I think it's pricey.

When I went to see Cece Winan on her Thone Room Tour in 2004 the concert was free but to have Diner with her was $100.00. Well I didn't have dinner with her.

One of my friends and her husband's in partnership with her and her husband. They go to Houston several times a year to see them.
 
CaribbeanQueen said:
there is a post about this in the entertainment forum too...
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Oops - thanks. But since I've already posted it, I don't have a comment moreso than it is a question: Do you think its appropriate for a first lady (or leader) in a church to post a registry of this nature for everyone in the congregation so see?

I'd really like a Christian, non-bashing response here. I'm really trying to stay open minded about the practices of other churches that I think are questionable. Yet I'm a little torn by such a registry being posted by a leader of a congregation that I'm assuming has a more diverse economic composition than those who can easily afford LV bags and Escada gift certificates. I know that there is a disclaimer stating that you do not have to purchase the items, but I don't know... It seems as though it would make some members who couldn't afford the requests feel a little belittled. Especially if they truly have a genuine desire to give a gift to the first lady.

I am familiar with who she is and I have to admit that although I'm not a member of that church, I felt a little bad when reading that registry. I'm not even sure if its because I know I couldn't afford to give her those things or if I felt sorry for the people of that church who felt bad because they couldn't give them to her. I don't know. Just a thought. But it makes me wonder what does God really desire of his church and are we practicing that or are we perpetuating the formation of more and more cliques within His house? How do we justify it... or how do we fix it?

This was a random thought but thanks for listening.
 
Honestly, I dont think that it is appropriate. As I said in the other post, there may be members of the congregation who may not even be able to pay their rent let alone provide her with designer handbags or clothing. Its innappropriate. Furthermore, there may be others who love her and would honestly like to attend the party but cant afford to dish out $100 for the ticket, the attire and gift. So what do they do?
 
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I was OK with the idea of the party, but I think the gift suggestion list was over the top, particularly since those items come from top top top of the line stores. Neiman? Escada? Saks? Those places are expensive as heck even for middle class folks with decent jobs!

I understand some folks might like to give her a gift in honor of her service to the church and community and the fact that as a pastor's wife, she probably sacrifices a lot of time she'd spend with her husband/kids if she was just a "regular" woman for the good of the church. There's a way they could have mentioned that members interested in giving a personal gift to the pastor's wife can contact them for information.

I really don't think this is a good image for churches to promote. While I don't think a minister and his family have to live in the poorhouse, something just doesn't sit well with me when I hear about ministers driving Bentleys and wives shopping at Neiman Marcus when many members are struggling to contribute a weekly offering. Not saying they shouldn't have nice things, but to be so forward about it just bothers me.
 
I think it's EXTREMELY tacky and exclusionary for the reasons mentioned above. Maybe instead of recieving gifts, she should be giving some.
 
Well, my response is that first of all, it doesn't seem like she was the one who did the posting. Does she know about the suggested gifts? Maybe she does, or maybe not. I think the gifts are a little over the top, but like they said, it's just a suggestion and not a fact that you 'have' to give this to her.

Someone mentioned they don't feel that ministers should drive Bently's, etc., My question is why not? Abraham was one of the wealthest men in his day, so was Job, David, Solomen, etc. God blesses all He chooses and if He gives it to them, praise the Lord. I feel as Christians, we need not to bash ministers for having nice things. I give my tithes and offerings because its for the Kingdom of God to advance. I'm sure they (the pastors) are doing what they are suppose to be doing for their community and for the Kingdom advancement as well. Maybe the bently's or whatever was given to them, and was not purchased with the tithes and offerings given to the church.

Being a minister, people give me gifts because they love me. That makes me feel special. Sometimes I get a card in the mail, just because people are thinking about me. I give gifts too to folks and love to do it because the bible says to give with a cheerful heart!

Let's have a cheerful heart today! Bless her, no matter what it looks like...she is God's anointed!

Blessings to all....:)
 
mkh_77 said:
I think it's EXTREMELY tacky and exclusionary for the reasons mentioned above. Maybe instead of recieving gifts, she should be giving some.
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I don't know how many of you watch Dr. Hilliard, but if so, you would have heard how many millions they give away...not tithes...not offering, but money out of their pocket that they just GIVE away. He stated his contributions are well over what the amount is to get a tax break back. He then stated that it isn't about getting any money back. It is about doing what the Lord tells him to do and bless people freely without trying to get somthing back. So, yes they give plenty away.
 
mzcaramelicious07 said:
I don't know how many of you watch Dr. Hilliard, but if so, you would have heard how many millions they give away...not tithes...not offering, but money out of their pocket that they just GIVE away. He stated his contributions are well over what the amount is to get a tax break back. He then stated that it isn't about getting any money back. It is about doing what the Lord tells him to do and bless people freely without trying to get somthing back. So, yes they give plenty away.
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Amen. It's for the advancement of the Kingdom!!!
 
CaribbeanQueen said:
Honestly, I dont think that it is appropriate. As I said in the other post, there may be members of the congregation who may not even be able to pay their rent let alone provide her with designer handbags or clothing. Its innappropriate. Furthermore, there may be others who love her and would honestly like to attend the party but cant afford to dish out $100 for the ticket, the attire and gift. So what do they do?
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I think what they should do is this:

Those who don't have the money to attend the dinner, put together a party for her themselves, so that they can share in her joy of turning 50 years old. I'm sure she would probably like that better than a fancy restaurant with all the trimmings anyways. I think that's appropriate and will be a very nice thing to do.
 
I don't see anything wrong w/ this and agree w/ the comments that Nice & Wavy had.

For someone who asked if we think it is appropriate for a first lady to display a registry..... It was stated on the site that one was listed because they were getting numerous phone calls asking what she liked. They also stated it would be easier to list things for everyone to see instead of their staff receiving numerous phone calls asking the same question. It appears that they didn't simply think of a "Wish List" from her congregation and post it. It was basically requested.

Also from the site:
You are in no way obligated to purchase these items. The list of suggested gift ideas is simply a way to help those who do decide to give her a gift. Whatever gifts she receives will be greatly appreciated no matter the amount. The presence of her members, friends, and family at her party is Dr. Bridget's greatest wish.

How could someone be offended by this? I know that when I can, I bless my Pastor and First Lady. Would I be offended if they posted a list? Nope. It would save me from having to ask around to see what kind of stuff they like. If one year, all I could get was a $5.00 box of candy from Dollar General and the next I could get a $500 leather jacket, I know they would appreciate each gift at the same level.
 
Just a few of my thoughts on this:

1. Do you really believe that Mrs. Hillard does not know about the web site?
2. She and her husband are "prosperous" because of the money the chruchgoers provide. I don't believe in prosperity ministries, and I don't contribute to them.
3. Does God not bless the poor? What if all you have to give God is your faith and love? Will you not be "prosperous" because you don't have any money or something of monetary value to give?
4. I don't see how God works in extravagant gift-giving for people who already have more than they need.
5. Giving away things provides a nice tax break--that's why Oprah does it every year.
 
Nice & Wavy said:
Well, my response is that first of all, it doesn't seem like she was the one who did the posting. Does she know about the suggested gifts? Maybe she does, or maybe not. I think the gifts are a little over the top, but like they said, it's just a suggestion and not a fact that you 'have' to give this to her.

Someone mentioned they don't feel that ministers should drive Bently's, etc., My question is why not? Abraham was one of the wealthest men in his day, so was Job, David, Solomen, etc. God blesses all He chooses and if He gives it to them, praise the Lord. I feel as Christians, we need not to bash ministers for having nice things. I give my tithes and offerings because its for the Kingdom of God to advance. I'm sure they (the pastors) are doing what they are suppose to be doing for their community and for the Kingdom advancement as well. Maybe the bently's or whatever was given to them, and was not purchased with the tithes and offerings given to the church.

Being a minister, people give me gifts because they love me. That makes me feel special. Sometimes I get a card in the mail, just because people are thinking about me. I give gifts too to folks and love to do it because the bible says to give with a cheerful heart!

Let's have a cheerful heart today! Bless her, no matter what it looks like...she is God's anointed!

Blessings to all....:)
Click to expand...

Hi Nice and Wavy! I'm not here to argue with you (especially not on a Christian forum!), but I just wanted to respond since I was the member who mentioned the Bentley.

No there's nothing inherently wrong with it. And I know folks who lead megachurches (T.D. Jakes, etc.) bring in so much money from their various endeavors that they can easily buy luxuries on their own dime. Knowing that T.D. Jakes has a great car and home wouldn't stop me from listening to his message if I find it inspiring.

I'm just saying that I personally have never really accepted the idea that one shouldn't question the right of ministers to have possessions that might be more than the average member makes in a year and that we should just be happy that God is blessing the pastor and his family.

Perhaps this is why I gravitate to a different type of church and worship experience. I do not bash any Christian for having nice things -- shoot I get my shop on -- and I'm in no way implying that it's sinful to have nice things.

I just get a visceral reaction when I attend services and hear ministers bring up this issue -- saying people shouldn't criticize pastors and their wives for having expensive things. (and often said pastor is one of those who has said things).

The church often speaks of not loving the things of the world and being of the world, yet it seems like that doesn't apply when it comes to the issue of buying numerous possessions. To me, that seems like a contradictory message. And I say that if God blesses all He chooses, then a lot more of us should be decked out in the best clothes, the best cars, etc., because there are truly some wonderful men and women of Christ out in the world who don't have those things.

Again, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to pass some law about it or anything, I'm just saying that for me personally, it's a turn off. Luckily, that's why there are so many different churches and styles of worship so that there's a place for us all. :)
 
mkh_77 said:
Just a few of my thoughts on this:

1. Do you really believe that Mrs. Hillard does not know about the web site?
2. She and her husband are "prosperous" because of the money the chruchgoers provide. I don't believe in prosperity ministries, and I don't contribute to them.
3. Does God not bless the poor? What if all you have to give God is your faith and love? Will you not be "prosperous" because you don't have any money or something of monetary value to give?
4. I don't see how God works in extravagant gift-giving for people who already have more than they need.
5. Giving away things provides a nice tax break--that's why Oprah does it every year.
Click to expand...

You expressed my beliefs way better than I could! :) Particularly points 2, 3, 4.
 
Bunny77 said:
Hi Nice and Wavy! I'm not here to argue with you (especially not on a Christian forum!), but I just wanted to respond since I was the member who mentioned the Bentley.

No there's nothing inherently wrong with it. And I know folks who lead megachurches (T.D. Jakes, etc.) bring in so much money from their various endeavors that they can easily buy luxuries on their own dime. Knowing that T.D. Jakes has a great car and home wouldn't stop me from listening to his message if I find it inspiring.

I'm just saying that I personally have never really accepted the idea that one shouldn't question the right of ministers to have possessions that might be more than the average member makes in a year and that we should just be happy that God is blessing the pastor and his family.

Perhaps this is why I gravitate to a different type of church and worship experience. I do not bash any Christian for having nice things -- shoot I get my shop on -- and I'm in no way implying that it's sinful to have nice things.

I just get a visceral reaction when I attend services and hear ministers bring up this issue -- saying people shouldn't criticize pastors and their wives for having expensive things. (and often said pastor is one of those who has said things).

The church often speaks of not loving the things of the world and being of the world, yet it seems like that doesn't apply when it comes to the issue of buying numerous possessions. To me, that seems like a contradictory message. And I say that if God blesses all He chooses, then a lot more of us should be decked out in the best clothes, the best cars, etc., because there are truly some wonderful men and women of Christ out in the world who don't have those things.

Again, this is just my opinion. I'm not trying to pass some law about it or anything, I'm just saying that for me personally, it's a turn off. Luckily, that's why there are so many different churches and styles of worship so that there's a place for us all. :)
Click to expand...

Point taken. Arguing....never. We are children of the most High God. We can discuss things with a loving heart.

When God blesses, He does it in many ways. We know this because we see it. I don't attend a huge 'megachurch' either. I'm a person who loves Jesus and has been called to do an extraordinary work...bringing the lost to Him to be with Him for eternity.

Being on earth is wonderful. The earth is the Lord's taste! He created everything in it. It all belongs to Him. When we see people blessed in whatever they have, whether its cars, boats, homes, healing, wisdom, etc., we must be happy for them, no matter what.

Having things has nothing to do with loving the world or the things in the world. If that is the case, why did God (and still does) bless Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, Job, Solomon, and the list goes on, and on and on. There were many, many people then who were poor and didn't have anything, yet God still blessed these people and gave them riches beyond any of our imaginations. Solomon was so rich, there has never been, nor will there ever be anyone richer than him. When God asked Solomon what he would want, anything he asked, God would have given it to him. He could have asked for donkeys and cattle and raiment and gold, silver, castles, etc. No, instead...he asked for wisdom. Ok, cool...God said I'll give that to you plus our give you everything My Heart desires for you to have. And so, God gave him the most riches any one man could ever want or desire. God's desire is to see us blessed. He wants to bless us, always. Solomon was blessed and so should we.

Money is not evil. The love of money is. Some people are blessed with tons of money but don't have love. They are miserable and many of them die, even in their sins. Many people are blessed with great health. Many are blessed with families, loving rich filled relationships with loving caring people. We are blessed in so many ways.

Whether pastors seek money, or just are blessed by the people who give, let's remember that they are the ones who have to answer to God about their actions, we must be careful about what we say. I guess being a minister myself, I realize how implications and opinions can cause hurts, even in pastors. How do we know that she (pastor hilliard) don't come on LCHF? She just might...I do!

I'm closing with this. It's nice being on the board and sharing our hearts. We won't always agree...and that's ok. We all have our opinions about things in this life...God has given us a freedom to express ourselves, isn't that wonderful?

How beautiful are the feet of them who brings Good News!

Blessings...
 
Maybe if Mrs. Hillard read this thread it might impart some objectivity. Then again, maybe not. I don't know because I don't know her, but I believe it's never a bad thing to look at yourself objectively.
 
mkh_77 said:
Maybe if Mrs. Hillard read this thread it might impart some objectivity. Then again, maybe not. I don't know because I don't know her, but I believe it's never a bad thing to look at yourself objectively.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'll be praying...
 
mkh_77 said:
Maybe if Mrs. Hillard read this thread it might impart some objectivity. Then again, maybe not. I don't know because I don't know her, but I believe it's never a bad thing to look at yourself objectively.
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ITA - LOL!!!

I most certainly agree that ministers should be entitled to nice things and salaries according to the size of their congregation. Nevertheless, there seems to be a stigma of some sort that many church leaders try to place on you whenever the practices of a preacher are questioned, regardless of what the question is. Why is it that every time someone poses a question toward a ministry, there is always a subtle threat of "You better not say anything bad about the preacher or God's gonna get you!" put into play? Its as if you can't say anything, but that's a lie because the bible tells us to get understanding.

Clearly we are not supposed to bash the preachers but like I said - for some reason I really felt bad when I read the registry requests. Bad as in "SMH this is not sending the right message" type of bad. It seemed more personal than just reading about a preacher in a magazine.

I can't judge them but to blatantly request such gifts, disclaimer or no disclaimer, IMO is just wrong. Perhaps because it places an emphasis on obtaining the same type of gifts that are glorified in the world as in rap lyrics and degrading music videos that keep so many Blacks poor; and sends the message that you HAVE TO have them in order to be considered prosperous or on the "level" of a first lady...I don't know.

Nothing is wrong with having nice things. Yet I think something is terribly wrong with advertising to make others feel compelled to help you obtain them. If the word is delivered on the pulpit with the sole purpose of glorifying God then those material things will come naturally, and not with the help of any written or verbal announcement.
 
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This makes me sad. As others have said, there is nothing wrong with pastors and ministers (and Christians in general) having nice things. But to those of us who don't know this ministry or this church, the message is not good and is no different from anything I would expect to find in a secular setting. It would have been nice if the gift list had included gifts in her honor to other causes in the church or other ministry needs. Surely she already has many nice things.

Why have we equated the gospel message with this over-the-top prosperity? Why is it that we no longer consider simplicity and poverty (of course I'm not talking about abject poverty and deprivation) a blessing? Our "gospel" never preaches contentment anymore, only striving for more material things. Then we measure the quality and quantity of our faith by our possessions and by whether He met our "needs". How can they tell us apart from the world if we are using the same measurement and standards of success? His love is about so much more than that. He knows our needs and goes above and beyond in meeting them. But His sacrifice is not about my creature comforts but rather His wonderful forgiveness and mercy toward a sinful and fallen creation.

I believe it is a true calling to be a pastor and a minister in the sense that these dear folks are doing it. There is also a tremendous responsibility to rightly handle the Word and the things of God and to walk "circumspectly" in the world. In their sincere attempt to honor their first lady, unfortunately, I believe this ministry did not honor the Lord. I don't believe they intented this to be the case.
 
That was great and on point.
Tamsin2005 said:
This makes me sad. As others have said, there is nothing wrong with pastors and ministers (and Christians in general) having nice things. But to those of us who don't know this ministry or this church, the message is not good and is no different from anything I would expect to find in a secular setting. It would have been nice if the gift list had included gifts in her honor to other causes in the church or other ministry needs. Surely she already has many nice things.

Why have we equated the gospel message with this over-the-top prosperity? Why is it that we no longer consider simplicity and poverty (of course I'm not talking about abject poverty and deprivation) a blessing? Our "gospel" never preaches contentment anymore, only striving for more material things. Then we measure the quality and quantity of our faith by our possessions and by whether He met our "needs". How can they tell us apart from the world if we are using the same measurement and standards of success? His love is about so much more than that. He knows our needs and goes above and beyond in meeting them. But His sacrifice is not about my creature comforts but rather His wonderful forgiveness and mercy toward a sinful and fallen creation.

I believe it is a true calling to be a pastor and a minister in the sense that these dear folks are doing it. There is also a tremendous responsibility to rightly handle the Word and the things of God and to walk "circumspectly" in the world. In their sincere attempt to honor their first lady, unfortunately, I believe this ministry did not honor the Lord. I don't believe they intented this to be the case.
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