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Trimming and Terminal Length
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
@My Friend, in my world and vocabulary, there's no such thing as lead hairs. The difference in length between hairs at different parts of the growth cycle is too negligible for any to stand out as "lead hairs". So if you cut hair from WL to BSL, chances are you cut off a lot of strands, not just those that had reached the end of their cycle but also those that had a year or so to go. So you will have some shed at the new BSL length coz they had already finished their growth cycle by the time you were cutting (about 10-15%); the other 85% or so continue to grow. Meaning those that were just at that length so didn't get cut, those that had passed BSL by one inch but got that inch cut off, those that had passed it by half an inch and got that cut off, those that had passed it by 1.5 inches and got that cut off. All those got cut to the same length and continue to grow together till they complete their cycle. NO LEAD HAIRS here. No lead hairs ever.
Some sections of the head may grow hair faster than other sections but they are not "lead hairs". They'll never be caught up with coz your follicles continue to sprout hair at the same rate and don't stop for hairs to wait for others. "Lead hairs" are what happens when you have uneven growth or when hair splits and breaks off...leaving some other strands hanging by a thread and therefore see-through. When people say "lead hairs" were caught up with, that's not true. What happened is the hairs that were still growing continue to grow and these so-called lead hairs break off or the entire strands shed so you don't see the long hairs anymore but are just left with the parts of the strands that were not worn out and the shorter ones that were still growing.
Some sections of the head may grow hair faster than other sections but they are not "lead hairs". They'll never be caught up with coz your follicles continue to sprout hair at the same rate and don't stop for hairs to wait for others. "Lead hairs" are what happens when you have uneven growth or when hair splits and breaks off...leaving some other strands hanging by a thread and therefore see-through. When people say "lead hairs" were caught up with, that's not true. What happened is the hairs that were still growing continue to grow and these so-called lead hairs break off or the entire strands shed so you don't see the long hairs anymore but are just left with the parts of the strands that were not worn out and the shorter ones that were still growing.
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BostonMaria
Well-Known Member
Good question...
I'm not sure. If I cut my hair back to BSL I'm sure it will grow back to WL. I'm about 1/2 inch from tailbone. My guess is that TBL is probably my terminal length.
I'm not sure. If I cut my hair back to BSL I'm sure it will grow back to WL. I'm about 1/2 inch from tailbone. My guess is that TBL is probably my terminal length.
MyAngelEyez~C~U
Well-Known Member
Girl, I don't even know, lol.
That's a really good question. Just looking at my own shed hair, I would think that terminal length is not the same for every hair because I've seen some shed strands (not broken in any way) that are short. Also, I'm thinking that terminal length might have something to do with the weight of the strand as well, not just the set amount of time that the follicle has been growing. So anyways, I think your hair will still grow. I also think that science has not clarified this issue. Based on science, a lot of people's hair shouldn't be as long as it is. So I don't think they've really figured it out.
BostonMaria
I agree. It will grow back but not bluntly right? You have different strands leading the pact until you reach full WL, right? I know we can't see the length of all 100,000 strands at one time but I think those cut bsl will shed before they reach wsl or hl. jmho
yorkpatties
Well-Known Member
Perhaps........ that's why we have various other hairs growing at their own speed all along the way. We can have a full head of thick hair without worrying about what each individual strand is up to along it's lifespan.
BostonMaria
Well-Known Member
I can't speak for everyone, but I do believe that the rest of my hair catches up to the "lead hairs" eventually. At one point the left side of my hair was shorter than the right. I tried doing a blunt cut, but that still didn't really fix the problem since my hair grows in a V no matter what I do. I left it alone for a year and the left side eventually caught up with the right. I also noticed that the shorter part of my hair on the sides was catching up to the middle.
If you go to @Chicoro 's fotki or read her book she talks about this. If my hair's terminal length is tailbone, which I'm starting to believe it is, then that's not the end of the world and I'll be happy.
candy626
New Member
Hmm, not sure. Interesting question though. I think that those hair will not remain layers but will continue to grow out. But then again if they already reached their terminal length they may not..
All I know is my hair definitely grows unevenly. One part of my hair always reaches MBL before any other part of my hair. Like right now, I have a small section at MBL but the rest is between BSB-BSL. I used to cut it when it got to this point because it looked thin, but I'm discovering this is just my growth pattern when I get beyond BSB.
I will let all my hair grows until my longest section is just a little beyond my goal. Then I will do a blunt cut.
All I know is my hair definitely grows unevenly. One part of my hair always reaches MBL before any other part of my hair. Like right now, I have a small section at MBL but the rest is between BSB-BSL. I used to cut it when it got to this point because it looked thin, but I'm discovering this is just my growth pattern when I get beyond BSB.
I will let all my hair grows until my longest section is just a little beyond my goal. Then I will do a blunt cut.
pre_medicalrulz
It Always Been About Hair!
Well I'm not sure what ppl call lead hairs or if they even exist BUT as u can see in my SIGGIE, my Aug pic clearly had strands longer than others and then my Dec pic, it seems to be all even again. No I did not trim.
Anyway back on the subj, I read somewhere that your entire head will not hit terminal length to be noticable, only about 15% of your hair. While the other 85% is still growing. Besides I also read terminal length only lasts about 2 to 3 weeks and starts the cycle of growing all over again. Sometimes those strands that were in terminal length will have shed & other times they stay intact until the growth cycle starts all over again. Nobody's terminal length is BSL nor will ALL your strands remain at BSL together PLUS 15% of your hair strands is not noticable enough to assume you're in terminal length. Well unless you have 10 strands of hair on your head. This is just my opinion though.
Sent from a land where women rule.....
Anyway back on the subj, I read somewhere that your entire head will not hit terminal length to be noticable, only about 15% of your hair. While the other 85% is still growing. Besides I also read terminal length only lasts about 2 to 3 weeks and starts the cycle of growing all over again. Sometimes those strands that were in terminal length will have shed & other times they stay intact until the growth cycle starts all over again. Nobody's terminal length is BSL nor will ALL your strands remain at BSL together PLUS 15% of your hair strands is not noticable enough to assume you're in terminal length. Well unless you have 10 strands of hair on your head. This is just my opinion though.
Sent from a land where women rule.....
GIJane
New Member
All I know is one side of my head grows faster then the other and always has, trust it isn't breakage! Has happened all my life. I think I will start getting lop sided hair cuts
Ditto. No matter how many blunt cuts I get. One side grows longer than the other.
southerncitygirl
Well-Known Member
i think with thew concept of terminal length most people have the potential to grow to at least wsl but its a matter of knowing what to do to maintain/retain. i too don't believe in the lead hair concept. i know that varying parts of the hair are in various stages of the growth cycle but for the majority of people that do the lead hair thing it backfires and they are left with nasty see through ends like kimmaytube
i know she has fine thin strands but that all the more reason to stay on top of trimming/dusting and not just doing search and destroy....she needs to create the illusion of fullness as much as she can and that would be a way to do it.
i know she has fine thin strands but that all the more reason to stay on top of trimming/dusting and not just doing search and destroy....she needs to create the illusion of fullness as much as she can and that would be a way to do it.
Nonie
Well-Known Member
Well I'm not sure what ppl call lead hairs or if they even exist BUT as u can see in my SIGGIE, my Aug pic clearly had strands longer than others and then my Dec pic, it seems to be all even again. No I did not trim.
Anyway back on the subj, I read somewhere that your entire head will not hit terminal length to be noticable, only about 15% of your hair. While the other 85% is still growing. Besides I also read terminal length only lasts about 2 to 3 weeks and starts the cycle of growing all over again. Sometimes those strands that were in terminal length will have shed & other times they stay intact until the growth cycle starts all over again. Nobody's terminal length is BSL nor will ALL your strands remain at BSL together PLUS 15% of your hair strands is not noticable enough to assume you're in terminal length. Well unless you have 10 strands of hair on your head. This is just my opinion though.
Sent from a land where women rule.....
OK, this paragraph just shows how people misinterpret growth. Let's think about this. 85% of your strands are growing at 0.016 inches a day all at different stages of growth. How much is that? Too tiny to demonstrate, but this line and dot _. are the equivalent of 0.125 of an inch.... So that line and dot are a little more than ten times the amount of length your strands grow per day. So 10-15% complete their growth cycle today. Tomorrow another 10%-15% reach it. What's the difference in length between these two sets? 1/10 of _. that length.
Tomorrow another set arrive at the end of their growth cycle....Now for each of these sets, there will be 2-3 weeks when they just sit there waiting to be shed. Meaning each day 10-15% will be completing their cycle and joining them.
Bottom line is there will not be such an obvious difference in length between the strands on different stages unless you're observing strands with a microscope. But they will appear to be falling to the same length. That is UNLESS your have a section that grows faster than others...and in that case that section will ALWAYS be longer than others...never being caught up coz for some reason the follicles there are on some crazy type of mojo so they'll be doing their own thang.
So what is the explanation for "lead hairs"? Wear and tear. I don't know how anyone can assume that strands can be on your head for 365 days or multiples of that, be handled daily, exposed to the elements, washed, touched and not have any wear and tear. And what does wear and tear do? Rip the cuticle and create splits--with the oldest parts being most vulnerable. If you snip the ends when the splits are small or just in their starting stages, you slow down the wear and tear. If you don't, the wear continues further up the strand. A split is a frayed end made of smaller sections of the whole standing alone. The thinner sections are weaker on their own than when they were sealed together as one strand so they aren't as able to withstand the elements and manipulation the way whole strands so they break off easily because each arm of the fray is thinner and weaker. The breaks leave spaces, not unlike a lost tooth leaves a gap.
So how about when you see "lead hairs" then you don't. Could be they broke off too, coz after all, they are old and have been through the same trauma as the ones that broke off before. Or could be they shed. The were the strands that have been around the longest so why couldn't it be that they were already in their resting phase just waiting to be shed?
So what happens when you see "lead hairs" and then you don't is not that they WAITED for the others to catch up. Hairs don't stop growing unless they have reached the end of their cycle and then they get shed. Otherwise, the ends break off, because they are old and worn out. Otherwise, the ideas that hairs stick out because they are at different growth stages is just poppy cock, coz when you shave your head, you don't see "lead hairs" then. Not in the sense that you see where people post photos from a distance and show you 1 inch differences in length of strands and attribute that to different growth rates.
People who dust the same amount from all their strands regularly before the wear and tear has gone too far have full ends; no lead hairs there. They still have strands growing at different rates, but they do not have strands whose ends were left on too long that they chipped off. If people wait too long to dust, then they will find themselves living in the lala land of "lead hairs" which is just a euphemism for see-through ends due to breakage.
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This is some sort of Schrodinger's cat type question. 
I think what you are saying is correct, but your entire head can't be at a terminal length at the same time. I also believe terminal length is somewhere around our ankles. I haven't seen this in black people (besides locks) but I've seen it enough (for people who want to go there) to believe our hair won't stop until we're tripping over it.
I think what you are saying is correct, but your entire head can't be at a terminal length at the same time. I also believe terminal length is somewhere around our ankles. I haven't seen this in black people (besides locks) but I've seen it enough (for people who want to go there) to believe our hair won't stop until we're tripping over it.
jwhitley6
Well-Known Member
OK, this paragraph just shows how people misinterpret growth. Let's think about this. 85% of your strands are growing at 0.016 inches a day all at different stages of growth. How much is that? Too tiny to demonstrate, but this line and dot _. are the equivalent of 0.125 of an inch.... So that line and dot are a little more than ten times the amount of length your strands grow per day. So 10-15% complete their growth cycle today. Tomorrow another 10%-15% reach it. What's the difference in length between these two sets? 1/10 of _. that length.
Now for each of these sets, there will be 2-3 weeks when they just sit there waiting to be shed. Meaning each day 10-15% will be completing their cycle and joining them.
Bottom line is there will not be such an obvious difference in length between the strands on different stages unless you're observing strands with a microscope. But they will appear to be falling to the same length. That is UNLESS your have a section that grows faster than others...and in that case that section will ALWAYS be longer than others...never being caught up coz for some reason the follicles there are on some crazy type of mojo so they'll be doing their own thang.
So what is the explanation for "lead hairs"? Wear and tear. I don't know how anyone can assume that strands can be on your head for 365 days or multiples of that, be handled daily, exposed to the elements, washed, touched and not have any wear and tear. And what does wear and tear do? Rip the cuticle and create splits--with the oldest parts being most vulnerable. If you snip the ends when the splits are small or just in their starting stages, you slow down the wear and tear. If you don't, the wear continues further up the strand. A split is a frayed end made of smaller sections of the whole standing alone. The thinner sections are weaker on their own than when they were sealed together as one strand so they aren't as able to withstand the elements and manipulation the way whole strands so they break off easily because each arm of the fray is thinner and weaker. The breaks leave spaces, not unlike a lost tooth leaves a gap.
So how about when you see "lead hairs" then you don't. Could be they broke off too, coz after all, they are old and have been through the same trauma as the ones that broke off before. Or could be they shed. The were the strands that have been around the longest so why couldn't it be that they were already in their resting phase just waiting to be shed?
So what happens when you see "lead hairs" and then you don't is not that they WAITED for the others to catch up. Hairs don't stop growing unless they have reached the end of their cycle and then they get shed. Otherwise, the ends break off, because they are old and worn out. Otherwise, the ideas that hairs stick out because they are at different growth stages is just poppy cock, coz when you shave your head, you don't see "lead hairs" then. Not in the sense that you see where people post photos from a distance and show you 1 inch differences in length of strands and attribute that to different growth rates.
People who dust the same amount from all their strands regularly before the wear and tear has gone too far have full ends; no lead hairs there. They still have strands growing at different rates, but they do not have strands whose ends were left on too long that they chipped off. If people wait too long to dust, then they will find themselves living in the lala land of "lead hairs" which is just a euphemism for see-through ends due to breakage.
I'm sorry Nonie, but this doesn't make sense. If you shed 10-15% of your hair every day, you'd have a new head of hair each year. It's my understanding that you lose up to 50 strands a day, which may be about 10-15% annually on a head of 100,000-150,000 strands.
Regarding lead hairs, I believe in them. I think it's very possible for strands to grow at different rates at various intervals. If strand "A" grows 1 inch, 1/2 inch, 1/2 inch over a three month period and strand "B" grows 1/2 inch, 1/2 inch, 1 inch over the same period, they end up even but strand "A" was the lead hair. Now, I agree that some people claiming "lead hairs" are just suffering from breakage.
LovelyNaps26
Well-Known Member
Pubic Hair vs. Hair on our Head
this may be a weird example but think about pubic hair no matter how much it's cut/shaved it will grow out and stop at a certain length. most of us have an idea of our terminal length down below or on our underarms. so by extension if you're wsl and cut your hair, your hair should be able to grow to wsl again. it won't grow longer if that's your terminal length. like hair on the vag hair on our head grows in cycles.
My View on Terminal Length
regarding terminal length in general, to me you can't really know you terminal length until you let you hair grow with low manipulation, take care of it well and trim very sparingly. when you no longer notice any 'retention', say over the course of a whole year, that to me demonstrates that you've reached your terminal length.
if you haven't reached at least BSL more than likely i'd say that there's another issue at play. b/c i think the majority of us will AT LEAST be able to reach BSL, some faster and some slower.
this may be a weird example but think about pubic hair
no matter how much it's cut/shaved it will grow out and stop at a certain length. most of us have an idea of our terminal length down below or on our underarms. so by extension if you're wsl and cut your hair, your hair should be able to grow to wsl again. it won't grow longer if that's your terminal length. like hair on the vag hair on our head grows in cycles. My View on Terminal Length
regarding terminal length in general, to me you can't really know you terminal length until you let you hair grow with low manipulation, take care of it well and trim very sparingly. when you no longer notice any 'retention', say over the course of a whole year, that to me demonstrates that you've reached your terminal length.
if you haven't reached at least BSL more than likely i'd say that there's another issue at play. b/c i think the majority of us will AT LEAST be able to reach BSL, some faster and some slower.
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
@jwhitley6 Uhmm...
My bad. I was rushing through and I apologize for that brain fart. I meant to say that you have 10%-15% of hairs at rest waiting to shed at any one time. Of those 0.05-0.1% shed per a day (that's about 50-100 hairs per day).
Now to correct your Math: If 0.05-0.1% of the hairs on your head (50-100 hairs) are shed a day, then that doesn't work out to be 10%-15% shed per year.
There are 365 days per year (366 in a leap year) so what you lose per year is 18.25%-36.5% (or 18.3%-36.6% in a leap year). 
Put another way:
You lose 50-100 hairs per day. Multiplying those by the number of days in a year, you find that you lose a total of 18250-36600 hairs per year. The percentage of that number out of 100,000 gives:
(18250/100000)% = 18.25% to (36600/100000)% = 36.6% of hair lost in a year.
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
Hairs growing at different intervals doesn't mean that there's a whole gap of growth between strands so that some get to grow at 0.016666 inches/day for however long it takes for them to grow a whole 1/2 inch and then suddenly the others realize "Oh shoot....we need to be growing!"
Let's look at it this way: you shave your head today. 85% of your strands start to grow at 0.016666... inches per day from zero. They are all at different stages of growth. But indeed 15% of your strands are not budging. They didn't get that 0.01666 inch increase coz they were already at rest and were just getting ready to be shed on the day you shaved. Some will be shed today. And over 2 weeks, they will all be shed. Each day 1% is shed (I'm taking 100 hairs shed a day), new hairs start to grow. So for this set of 15% that were done growing, all 15% will have been shed in about 2 weeks say coz 1% is shed per day. So the last 1% of that set to start growing will be behind the first one of the set by 0.24 inches coz in the 15 days when each 1% was being shed, the first 1% to be shed was gaining length by 0.016 inches. Multiplying that by 15 gives 0.24 inches. How much is that? About this much ___ And BTW, this difference is only between one set of 100 strands and another set of 100 strands. In between those two extremes are other sets of 100 strands whose difference in length from the closest length strands is only 0.016 since each 100 have been gaining 0.016 inches per day all beginning on different days. In other words, difference in length between every 100 strands happens to be only 0.016 inches or so. And that is 1/10 of -. <--this distance.
So how the heck would anyone see lead hairs unless there's breakage or unless one part of one's head grows faster than the other? And if that's the case, you'd have that one side being longer all the time...not a few see through hairs as one sees in "so-called lead hairs" heads.
Anyway, if it makes folks sleep better believing in lead hairs, who am I to rain on their parade? But logically, I don't know how lead hairs can be possible. It seems lead hairs only happen to those who go for a long time w/o dusting...which IMO seems to confirm that wear and tear is the only reason for that. Those who dust regularly just don't seem to have lead hairs...and they still get to long lengths eg Wanakee
And JJJ:
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Nonie
Well-Known Member
What's your question? I've just been posting on this topic what I think about it so what about them do you want me to clarify? Sorry my ramble probably is confusing. I'll try to be brief.
Diva_Esq
New Member
Couldn't the reason people's hair grows faster on one side than the other, at least for some people, be the same reason that one foot, boob, etc. is a little bigger... the science of how blood pumps from the hwart to the opposite side of the body? Increased circulation on one side....
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