Trim those straggly ends fine stranded ladies...

[kizzylonghair]

I agree

I'm not a fine strand lady, but I use to trim my hair too much and I was a firm believer in trimming ends to curve damaged hair. But all that did was cause me to lose precious healthy length that didn't need to be cut in the first place. But nowadays I am not cutting at all except for spot SSK's that I find and my hair hasn't spontaneously combusted into a fireball of split ends yet...my last cut was in September and I am still waiting. My hair is tangled free (one of my key markers for healthy ends) and my ends look good.

I'm trying this for a year too or until this fireball explodes on my hair....whatever comes first

I love your hair... Thin/Damaged Ends def look worst on relaxed heads

 

[kizzylonghair]

My hair is very thin and after years of overprocessing/overlaping, I finally realized why I had never seen it past NL. For over a year now, I've been trimming every couple months to get rid of the damaged ends. I bought the Creaclip and with DH's help, I manage to cut +/- 1" every time. My actual length is not very impressive, but I can see how good my ends are compared to what they used to look like. I still have 1-3 inches to trim and I will keep doing it the same way. They are not breaking or anything, but are thin, really thin. My goal is to get rid of the overprocessed ends by the end of 2011.

Flor, Your hair is very similar looking to mine, keep up with your trimming, I have some more to do myself. It wont be long before we have a full head of healthy hair

 

[Morenita]

I recently read that trimming the hair, contrary to the most popular belief in this forum, may actually help it to grow and thrive even further, as it oxygenates the individual strands. I'll try to find the source. It may have been the new Curly Girl book.

Makes sense to me...

 

[Nonie]

I recently read that trimming the hair, contrary to the most popular belief in this forum, may actually help it to grow and thrive even further, as it oxygenates the individual strands. I'll try to find the source. It may have been the new Curly Girl book.

Makes sense to me...

The bold made me go , so I'd be interested to read the explanation.

 

[Napp]

i would like the explanation too. it sounds interesting

 

[kizzylonghair]

I recently read that trimming the hair, contrary to the most popular belief in this forum, may actually help it to grow and thrive even further, as it oxygenates the individual strands. I'll try to find the source. It may have been the new Curly Girl book.

Makes sense to me...

Please do some digging, I am intrigued

 

[Morenita]

Lol, I knew ya'll would be like wth? inocchio

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for copyright violation. erplexed

Ok, here's what Lorraine Massey says in Curly Girl 2nd ed. (pg. 94)

"Basically, I trim just the ends to oxygenize the hair, so they can take in and absorb more oxygen and water. If you are trying to grow your hair long or grow out relaxed hair, get frequent trims."

And Pg. 100:

"The sharpest point I want to make in this chapter is to teach you how to trim your own hair, or what I call 'oxygenize' your curls yourself. You can do this in between your regular haircuts, to save time and money or simply out of 'shear' frustration at the haircuts that you've gotten. 'Oxygenize' means to refresh and aerate, so that the ends of the hair strands can breathe in more oxygen and moisture. I'm not talking about cutting big chunks of hair or reshaping it--that's for your stylist. I'm talking about a fraction of an inch, half a C curl, or at most, a full C shape in your curl's spiral in order to remove the frayed, knotty, granular ends of your hair. With sharp, professional hair scissors, a small snip can go a long way for a curly do.

I think of trimming the hair the same way you'd trim trees or plants in the garden. Your eyes would go to the end of a stem or branch and instinctively cut off the part that looked gnarly and dried out. By pruning the plant or tree, you're helping it take in oxygen and water from the atmosphere. Almost immediately it starts to look healthier and ready for new growth. Now, apply this same thinking to the ends of your hair, and you will be amazed at what a difference a little trim can and will make!"

She said it, not me!

 

[Napp]

Morenita you know ive notice this! when i trim my curls i noticed that even as little as an 1/8 and inch makes a difference in how my curls look.it makes the ends pop. after a while when i dont trim they look droopy(this was before i even used heat)

 

[Morenita]

Napp Yup, as soon as I read it, I was nodding my head, thinking of fresh cut flowers and how you cut off the bottom on an angle to help them absorb the water better. I personally haven't been trimming my hair like I should, but after reading that, I will definitely be keeping up on it. It's completely logical.

 

[iri9109]

all my life i thought i had thick hair, but i really have mostly fine and some medium strands, but just alot of them...when my curls dont act right, i'll just trim individual pieces that are giving me trouble, and that makes a difference too...i've never trimmed all my ends at once...i was gonna do it on my BC anniversary, but now i think i'll wait until i reach APL

 

[TaraDyan]

Man this thread is right on time. I haven't had a good trim since last September (5 months ago). My hair ALWAYS does better with a good trim, so why am I so resistant to trimming. What the heck is my problem?

I'm going to try to implement a regular trimming schedule of every 2 months.

 

[Rocky91]

i soo agree with this thread. my hair looks and feels so much better when i regularly trim. in fact, i need one soon...

 

[lilsparkle825]

I absolutely agree with the sentiments in this thread!! I trim with every blowout, which is about once every 3 months. Even when I go back to curly, I can tell a noticeable difference in the manageability of my hair. Not to mention.....my hair has much more SWANG and the barrel curls I like to do towards my ends hold better when I wear it straight if the ends are fresh!

 

[Chaosbutterfly]

I don't know if I really agree with the oxygenize thing. I can see why it would be analogized to cutting the bottoms off flowers, but I feel like they aren't the same...hair is dead. It doesn't need oxygen. Even after you cut a flower it's still alive. It's like...dying, but it's technically still alive, so it's not the same.
I agree that my hair takes up moisture better after I trim, but I don't think it has anything to do with it breathing oxygen. I assume it's because the damaged parts have been removed and are no longer impeding the moisture....kind of like how in the hospital, they clean dead skin from wounds before applying medication.

But anyway, I agree that fine-haired people should make trimming a regular part of their reggies. I barely trimmed last year, and even though I bunned the whole time, I'm definitely paying for it now.

 

[WorkInProgress88]

i totally agree with this post




and blunt, non stringy ends look WAY better IMO

 

[Nonie]

@Morenita you know ive notice this! when i trim my curls i noticed that even as little as an 1/8 and inch makes a difference in how my curls look.it makes the ends pop. after a while when i dont trim they look droopy(this was before i even used heat)

@Napp The reason for the limp ends is because you do not have complete strands at the ends. Hair splits whether you like it or not, and whether you can see it with your naked eyes or not. And a "sick" strand or portion of a strand will not behave the same way as a healthy or whole strand. If you've read my posts on why dusting is important, you'll see the images I've shown of how ugly splits look at a scale that you cannot see and can therefore see why hair that is that damaged cannot possibly behave normally--which is why your ends look that way till you get rid of them.

Lol, I knew ya'll would be like wth? inocchio

Hopefully I won't get in trouble for copyright violation. erplexed

Ok, here's what Lorraine Massey says in Curly Girl 2nd ed. (pg. 94)

Basically, I trim just the ends to oxygenize the hair, so they can take in and absorb more oxygen and water. If you are trying to grow your hair long or grow out relaxed hair, get frequent trims.

And Pg. 100:

"The sharpest point I want to make in this chapter is to teach you how to trim your own hair, or what I call 'oxygenize' your curls yourself. You can do this in between your regular haircuts, to save time and money or simply out of 'shear' frustration at the haircuts that you've gotten. 'Oxygenize' means to refresh and aerate, so that the ends of the hair strands can breathe in more oxygen and moisture. I'm not talking about cutting big chunks of hair or reshaping it--that's for your stylist. I'm talking about a fraction of an inch, half a C curl, or at most, a full C shape in your curl's spiral in order to remove the frayed, knotty, granular ends of your hair. With sharp, professional hair scissors, a small snip can go a long way for a curly do.

I think of trimming the hair the same way you'd trim trees or plants in the garden. Your eyes would go to the end of a stem or branch and instinctively cut off the part that looked gnarly and dried out. By pruning the plant or tree, you're helping it take in oxygen and water from the atmosphere. Almost immediately it starts to look healthier and ready for new growth. Now, apply this same thinking to the ends of your hair, and you will be amazed at what a difference a little trim can and will make!"

She said it, not me!

@Napp Yup, as soon as I read it, I was nodding my head, thinking of fresh cut flowers and how you cut off the bottom on an angle to help them absorb the water better. I personally haven't been trimming my hair like I should, but after reading that, I will definitely be keeping up on it. It's completely logical.

I am with @Chaosbutterfly in disagreeing with the explanation given in the post @Morenita pasted w/r/t to oxygenation and moisture absorption and the idea that trimming is like pruning.

First we have to understand that the idea behind pruning is the removal of the weaker/dying branches of a plant so that you allow the nourishment from the roots to be concentrated on the rest of the plant and not wasted on the weak areas and therefore allow the plant to grow stronger. When you cut of the weak branch, a scar/callus forms in the spot you cut it. No oxygen or moisture is absorbed at that spot, but rather you just remove the section that was robbing the rest of the plant of food so that there's more now for the rest of the plant. Every once in a while, there'll be a stubborn stem that will try to grow back but you would just cut it off again.

The article seems to misunderstand the idea behind pruning since it assumes that when you cut the weak part of the plant "you're helping it take in oxygen and water from the atmosphere." During the day, plants take in carbon dioxide from the air through their leaves which then give off oxygen which they get from the soil through their roots; and at night the leaves take in oxygen from the air and give off carbon dioxide. The roots are also how they get their water along with the nutrients from the soil that they need for growth. Since oxygen and water absorption happens at the roots, there's no "oxygenation" happening at the point where one prunes a plant and no moisture being taken in there either.

And even if that had been the case, which it isn't, as Chaosbutterfly said, hair is dead. Hair cells are dead by the time they show up above the scalp. They lose their connection to blood supply and oxygen even before they reach the surface of the scalp as they multiply at the root and are pushed further away then keratinized to form the pole we call hair. So no oxygen is being absorbed by the hair at all above your scalp anymore than it is being absorbed by a doornail. Nor is it traveling up the strand from the root to the strand the way it does in plants so that you can consider trimming to be like pruning.

As far as moisture is concerned, the ends of the hair are not the only way water can enter a hair strand. Hair has cuticles that open and close along the length of the strands. When open, cuticles allow the hair to absorb water, products, etc, but not just at the tips but along the entire length of the hair. Unlike oxygen, water absorption has nothing to do with being alive. A sponge absorbs water till it can't absorb anymore, and so does dead hair. Since moisture absorption can happen along the length of the hair, the ends don't really affect the rest of the hair's water absorption. So saying that trimming allows the hair to absorb moisture doesn't really hold any water. (Pun intended ) It is true split ends do not hold much of anything because they are frayed and incomplete so there's no point in holding onto them. But ends in general, even newly trimmed, are open and so are vulnerable to moisture loss hence the reason for sealing with heavy products and protective styling. It is because of this vulnerability of the open ends of strands that splits happen in the first place: the open end loses moisture and the dryness leads to cracking then to complete splitting and breakage.

One might say, well then what's the point of trimming if you're just creating a new fresh open end for moisture loss? One answer is: the end you create when you trim with sharp scissors is less open than the end created by a split which thus reduces moisture loss.

For a visual, when we cut hair with sharp scissors, we get a blunt clean cut like this:

​

If cuticles are closed, then that end is the only open window through which that strand that can lose moisture.

On the other hand, when a hair splits, the sides open up too, so you have the end as well as the sides releasing moisture to the air leading to more moisture loss and hence breakage from more of the strand just turning into dry straw:

​

...leading to the thin ends that one sees if one goes too long w/o trimming.

Another reason to trim is you take away the weakness created by the tear of a split so that you make it harder for damage to occur and therefore preserve/retain your hair better. To understand this logic, think of bags of snacks or meds. If there's a tear notch (shown as #24 below), it is so much easier to rip the bag open.

​

But if none exists or if you tear the bag clumsily and lose the notch before you have opened the bag, then you have to use more force or even scissors to finish the task because the bag is tougher to open without the "tear". Likewise, hair becomes stronger and tougher to break if it doesn't have the "tear notch" known as a split end.

 

[Morenita]

Lol I knew you would break it down Nonie!

 

[ms.blue]

I gave myself a small trim in november and I have feeling I need to trim again even though I haven't experience much tangling when I was detangling my hair. I might trim again before my next install.

 

[werenumber2]

I wish i had a team of people to help me! I basically take a section of hair, hold the ends up to a light, and snip the individual single strand knots and frayed/split ends. It takes forever and I get tired after about 10 minutes.

 

[Nonie]

I wish i had a team of people to help me! I basically take a section of hair, hold the ends up to a light, and snip the individual single strand knots and frayed/split ends. It takes forever and I get tired after about 10 minutes.

werenumber2 That's where you go wrong. Trying to see the splits. Just put your hair into small sections and take off the same amount from all of them. Trying to see the splits means you're waiting till they look like this:

...before you do anything about them. That's too late IMO and whether you believe it or not, it does affect your retention. If you just dusted on a regular schedule, you'd be catching the split before it gets ^^that bad.
​

 

[FindingMe]

@Napp Yup, as soon as I read it, I was nodding my head, thinking of fresh cut flowers and how you cut off the bottom on an angle to help them absorb the water better. I personally haven't been trimming my hair like I should, but after reading that, I will definitely be keeping up on it. It's completely logical.

I have this book (the second edition, mind you) and I love it! She shows you how to properly spot trim (where to cut the curl, how to cut it, etc.) in the book. I had been searching the internet trying to find this information and its all right there for $10 on Amazon.

My daughter has very fine hair that I have to trim regularly or it will just snarl up and the ends catch and knot together. I try to trim every 2 months for her. I was cutting her hair straight across when wet, but now I am going to start trimming the curls individually when dry like LM recommends. She's 4 and I am going to start letting her wear her curls out some days...

OT: Love this book - love her tips and I have actually adopted her curly curl method (exactly) to see if it will make a difference in my hair. My WnGs were pitiful and now they are turning out decent. The main things I picked up from her were:

1. trim the frayed and straggly ends regularly (i wasn't doing this)
2. prepoo every time on dry hair with conditioner (i wasn't really doing this every time and now this is the point where i detangle bc in the shower i let the water form the curls after that and i dont disturb them anymore except for combing with my fingers from underneath)
3. no-poo, or sulfate free shampoos (learned how to properly massage the poo into the scalp and let it rinse out without disturbing the hair- poo is really to clean the scalp)
4. let the water running through the hair shape the curls, dont really disturb them in the shower, even while pooing or conditioning (I wasn't really doing this, i think i was more scrubbing my hair and rubbing it together)
5. leave all conditioner in my hair to get that heavy "milky" water when i scrunch
6. apply gel/styling product
7. air dry or if in hurry diffuse

She has a CD to show you the exact techniques and the ladies are so gentle with their hair on the video. I think I was being a little too rough on my hair as well. My WnGs have been coming out STELLAR and she says that if you keep following these simple steps and using the right products, the hair will get better and better (smoother, curl formation, shinier, retain more moisture, etc.) over time...

 

[Bmack]

As a fine haired lady, I find that this is imperative for fullness too. I suffered a lot of breakage and damage recently and am still trying to get pass this phase. I did a deep cut, and although my hair is much shorter (already was short) it feels so much better already.

I can't and never will understand thin, pointy ends. What is the use, just to say you have length-no thanks!

 

[kizzylonghair]

@Napp The reason for the limp ends is because you do not have complete strands at the ends. Hair splits whether you like it or not, and whether you can see it with your naked eyes or not. And a "sick" strand or portion of a strand will not behave the same way as a healthy or whole strand. If you've read my posts on why dusting is important, you'll see the images I've shown of how ugly splits look at a scale that you cannot see and can therefore see why hair that is that damaged cannot possibly behave normally--which is why your ends look that way till you get rid of them.





I am with @Chaosbutterfly in disagreeing with the explanation given in the post @Morenita pasted w/r/t to oxygenation and moisture absorption and the idea that trimming is like pruning.

First we have to understand that the idea behind pruning is the removal of the weaker/dying branches of a plant so that you allow the nourishment from the roots to be concentrated on the rest of the plant and not wasted on the weak areas and therefore allow the plant to grow stronger. When you cut of the weak branch, a scar/callus forms in the spot you cut it. No oxygen or moisture is absorbed at that spot, but rather you just remove the section that was robbing the rest of the plant of food so that there's more now for the rest of the plant. Every once in a while, there'll be a stubborn stem that will try to grow back but you would just cut it off again.

The article seems to misunderstand the idea behind pruning since it assumes that when you cut the weak part of the plant "you're helping it take in oxygen and water from the atmosphere." During the day, plants take in carbon dioxide from the air through their leaves which then give off oxygen which they get from the soil through their roots; and at night the leaves take in oxygen from the air and give off carbon dioxide. The roots are also how they get their water along with the nutrients from the soil that they need for growth. Since oxygen and water absorption happens at the roots, there's no "oxygenation" happening at the point where one prunes a plant and no moisture being taken in there either.

And even if that had been the case, which it isn't, as Chaosbutterfly said, hair is dead. Hair cells are dead by the time they show up above the scalp. They lose their connection to blood supply and oxygen even before they reach the surface of the scalp as they multiply at the root and are pushed further away then keratinized to form the pole we call hair. So no oxygen is being absorbed by the hair at all above your scalp anymore than it is being absorbed by a doornail. Nor is it traveling up the strand from the root to the strand the way it does in plants so that you can consider trimming to be like pruning.

As far as moisture is concerned, the ends of the hair are not the only way water can enter a hair strand. Hair has cuticles that open and close along the length of the strands. When open, cuticles allow the hair to absorb water, products, etc, but not just at the tips but along the entire length of the hair. Unlike oxygen, water absorption has nothing to do with being alive. A sponge absorbs water till it can't absorb anymore, and so does dead hair. Since moisture absorption can happen along the length of the hair, the ends don't really affect the rest of the hair's water absorption. So saying that trimming allows the hair to absorb moisture doesn't really hold any water. (Pun intended ) It is true split ends do not hold much of anything because they are frayed and incomplete so there's no point in holding onto them. But ends in general, even newly trimmed, are open and so are vulnerable to moisture loss hence the reason for sealing with heavy products and protective styling. It is because of this vulnerability of the open ends of strands that splits happen in the first place: the open end loses moisture and the dryness leads to cracking then to complete splitting and breakage.

One might say, well then what's the point of trimming if you're just creating a new fresh open end for moisture loss? One answer is: the end you create when you trim with sharp scissors is less open than the end created by a split which thus reduces moisture loss.

For a visual, when we cut hair with sharp scissors, we get a blunt clean cut like this:

​

If cuticles are closed, then that end is the only open window through which that strand that can lose moisture.

On the other hand, when a hair splits, the sides open up too, so you have the end as well as the sides releasing moisture to the air leading to more moisture loss and hence breakage from more of the strand just turning into dry straw:

​

...leading to the thin ends that one sees if one goes too long w/o trimming.

Another reason to trim is you take away the weakness created by the tear of a split so that you make it harder for damage to occur and therefore preserve/retain your hair better. To understand this logic, think of bags of snacks or meds. If there's a tear notch (shown as #24 below), it is so much easier to rip the bag open.

​

But if none exists or if you tear the bag clumsily and lose the notch before you have opened the bag, then you have to use more force or even scissors to finish the task because the bag is tougher to open without the "tear". Likewise, hair becomes stronger and tougher to break if it doesn't have the "tear notch" known as a split end.

break it down girl

 

[PhonyBaloney500]

Nonie, great info! What do you consider dusting (in inches)?

 

[Nonie]

Nonie, great info! What do you consider dusting (in inches)?

@PhonyBaloney500 I think that's just up to the individual. I personally consider 1/4 inch dusting, but I am sure I dust a little more than that, coz I don't really try to be anal and a 1/4 inch is only this long __ which isn't an easy amount to gauge or even hold and I do hold and stretch my ends in twists before snipping. But even with my imprecise measuring, I still find it helps me retain my hair better than if I don't dust at all. And the snip is so tiny that it doesn't really make a difference to my length--which is generally what dusting should be: an insignificant trim.

I won't bore everyone for the umpteenth time with images of the difference dusting makes to my hair but I'll give you a link to one of my many posts with the evidence in case you're interested.

 

[Chaosbutterfly]

So, I couldn't sleep and I kept on thinking about this thread, until I finally grabbed my scissors and went to town on my hair.
I was here at the end of the 2010:

And this is tonight, after everything was done:

I know I still have a few inches to go, but I'm so much happier with my hair now. It looks much better, and feels great...no roughness or knots at the ends. And I don't miss the lost inches at all...it just feels so good to not have hair that looks like cats have been chewing on it.

 

[kizzylonghair]

So, I couldn't sleep and I kept on thinking about this thread, until I finally grabbed my scissors and went to town on my hair.
I was here at the end of the 2010:

And this is tonight, after everything was done:

I know I still have a few inches to go, but I'm so much happier with my hair now. It looks much better, and feels great...no roughness or knots at the ends. And I don't miss the lost inches at all...it just feels so good to not have hair that looks like cats have been chewing on it.

Chaosbutterfly

WELL DONE for taking the plunge.

Its looks so much better, you look like you have a very similar texture to mine. I dont feel my hair will ever be uber thick the strands are very fine.
But we can give them the best possible chance.

Do you rollerset? I love having that thick hair illusion

 

[LushLox]

Chaosbutterfly

Your hair looks lovely. It's amazing how much thicker it looks by just clipping those ends.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

You're preaching to the choir. See my siggy. Your talking to someone who chopped from mbl to shoulder and then this past fall still chopped off two inches (all in 14 months starting with the huge chop at the beginning of that 14 month period, and then ps the whole 14 months with another 2 inch trim in between in that time frame). I am NOT afraid of my scissors lol! (I had layers I wanted to even out plus some set back stuff). Still I think I didn't overdue it as I'm just under wl falling in mbl category currently (last siggy pic was Jan 2011, not sure current length as I'm psing it until July in a protective weave).

Still I know to be conservative when I need to and am only dusting until July whenever I take down my protective style and then putting it back into a ps again(and might cut an inch then in July, again depending on my assessment). Im thinking dusting and then every 6 months a nice small tiny trim will keep me even and thick while I grow to my goal of hip or tailbone (not sure which one is my goal yet. I'll have to see if it looks overwhelming , as if it does I'll keep it at a shorter length.I'm just under 5'5)

I'm fine haired. Nonie gave a great example because I'm fine haired but really dense.

 

[Chaosbutterfly]

Chaosbutterfly

WELL DONE for taking the plunge.

Its looks so much better, you look like you have a very similar texture to mine. I dont feel my hair will ever be uber thick the strands are very fine.
But we can give them the best possible chance.

Do you rollerset? I love having that thick hair illusion

Thanks!
I'm the same way...I have fine strands and not so many of them, so I had to let my Princess Jasmine dreams go.
But like you said, we can give them the best possible chance.

And I do rollerset...I like to do it once a week.
It really does make it seem like you have double the hair, especially if you air dry the set.