The Wage Gap - How Important Is It?

TinyBlu

TinyBlu

Well-Known Member
Had this convo with some of my equally successful lady counterparts and wondered what others thought.

We got into an actual debate about "dating down" and what that means. Considering that the women of the group have really great-paying jobs (some six figures) and great educations, I found it interesting that a few of them said they would write off a nice guy/girl that made considerably less than them.

I understand (and have personally gone through) the challenge for some men/women to accept that they may not be able to provide a certain type of lifestyle for the women with whom they've chosen to spend time or feel a bit intimidated in situations where there may be a disparity in education or even culture levels (can't pick a good bottle of wine?), but in the instance that a TRULY hard working, good man/woman came along, how quickly would we turn him/her down?

I, myself, have been guilty of judging men based on grammar, education levels, and paycheck size but would hope that as I have gotten older that I have shortened the list. However, having dealt with the "come up" guy that never actually DID come up, I can certainly understand why a woman would want to level the playing field a bit more.

So, ladies:

1) Would you write off a genuine good guy/girl with a smaller paycheck that treated you well?
2) Is there anyone that has had success with being in a relationship with someone that made considerably less? If so, please share your secrets.
 
1. I would not- as long as he has ambitions and is ready for the stuff I would put him on- from people he would meet to business networking. Chances are I would be meeting him in one of those avenues since I attend a lot of networking events.
That said I make really good money so cutting off someone due to a smaller paycheck than me would be cutting off a lot of my options. If he is making moves, I can deal.

2. I have not.
 
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kinchen said:
I am old and I can’t date you if you make less than me. I will not willingly put myself on the struggle bus. But if you are young just out of college give them no more than 6 months of your time and only if actions are moving towards the goals they set for themselves.
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Agreed.

I feel like this conversation changes after a certain age. Personally, I make a living wage (not minimum but standard). For a man to come in making even less than I do, is a no brainer. I wouldn't date him, or at least not exclusively.
 
I just read an article about this on dailymail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ying-career-women-refusing-marry-despite-stru

High-flying career women are refusing to 'marry down' despite struggling to find a Mr Right with similar earning power and intelligence
By Jessica Green For Mailonline12:59 29 Jul 2018, updated 23:34 29 Jul 2018


  • Career women are struggling to meet men with a similar level of education
  • A generation of high-flying women cannot find eligible men that they can marry
  • This is down to men's lack of degrees and high incomes, a US study claims
Career-focused women are struggling to meet men with a similar level of education and financial income - but refuse to ‘marry down’.

A generation of high-flying women cannot find eligible men that they would consider marrying, and this is down to their lack of degrees and high incomes, a US academic study claims.

ADVERTISEMENT

For women marriage often involves ‘marrying up’ but as personal fortunes have increased, expectations have failed to adjust.

The study said: ‘Unmarried women, on average, are looking for a man who has an income that is about 66% higher and a likelihood of having a college degree that is about 49% higher than what is available.’

4EAB0B9100000578-6004239-image-a-28_1532869150589.jpg

Career-focused women are struggling to meet men with a similar level of education and financial income - but refuse to ‘marry down’
The lead author Daniel Lichter, professor of sociology at Cornell University, and co-author Joseph Price of Brigham University, think they’ve created a formula for working out what unmarried women desire in a potential partner.

Analysing data from 10.5million households surveyed for three years from 2010 by the US Census Bureau, they established the traits of married couples aged between 25 and 45-years-old.

In their working paper, Mismatches in the Marriage Market, they assume that unmarried women are searching for men similar to those already married
Click to expand...
 
1. Significantly smaller and hs graduate, yes I would end it if I even allowed it to start.

A little smaller, but little to no debt - no I wouldn't end it. I am attracted to men who can keep up or outpace me per se, so in general I'd like someone who out earns me.

2. I know 1. They're doing ok and been together for years. Theyre married and have a baby together. It made me sad for she had to rush back to work after giving birth as it seems like she wasnt entirely ready just doing what needs doing, but he does seem to help with the baby. All the rest I knew didnt make it.
 
Ten years ago perhaps. But now I'm in my late 30s, I don't feel like there's a lot of wiggle room for financial missteps. My hubby is actually motivated by my increases in income and always finds a way to stay ahead financially. That competition ups both of our games.

I know of one successful situation, but her money is soooooo long that her dating pool would be extremely limited.
 
All interesting responses, everyone. I guess it would have helped to mention that the age range for our group of women is 40+ (four of which have never been married). I agree that the perception does change as we age. I have given more than one guy the side eye for having a lower income level, but as I stated earlier, I have found (in my experience) that men in my tax bracket tend to either be locked down already, players, dating outside the race or same gender loving (why did that sound like the “Waiting to Exhale” crew?)

…and I do believe that it would take a STRONG man to be comfortable with a woman that makes more.

Playing devil’s advocate: Are we limiting ourselves in these boundaries? Does high income = good man (I really liked the mention of low debt in the earlier post)?

I dunno. The conversation got me thinking a bit about my own… “list”. While I certainly would never entertain a man in my age bracket that couldn’t hold down a steady job, I may not be so quick to at least see what a hard-working, lower income, genuinely nice guy had to say or bring to the table. Of course, it would take time (open mind / closed legs) to determine if he (and I) was comfortable with the wage gap, and there would DEFINITELY need to be some other common factors in place, but in the right situation, I may be more open.
 
1) Depends on how much of a gap there is in wages, but I'd prefer not to date someone with a significantly smaller paycheck than me at this point in my life. I won't entertain it, really. I'm in my early thirties and for most of my twenties I gave men a pass for this, and it never worked out in my favor. I've had exes who were bitter and jealous of my "success." With my last ex, I felt like I was carrying the financial load for everything and he seemed to be ok with that. I ended up resenting him for that and vowed not to let it happen again. Plus, I live in an expensive city, so if you're not making a certain amount then it says a lot.

2) I haven't had success with a man who's made less than me. Despite what many may say, income disparity can make a huge impact on relationships and can take a toll over time.
 
TinyBlu said:
All interesting responses, everyone. I guess it would have helped to mention that the age range for our group of women is 40+ (four of which have never been married). I agree that the perception does change as we age. I have given more than one guy the side eye for having a lower income level, but as I stated earlier, I have found (in my experience) that men in my tax bracket tend to either be locked down already, players, dating outside the race or same gender loving (why did that sound like the “Waiting to Exhale” crew?)
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I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
 

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How big is a gap? o_O My mom is Muslim and the way it works is a man has to maintain his wife’s SES or improve it. So that’s my standard. In practice, I mean if I’m making $100k and he’s making $80-90k then we straight since we’ll be living on his income. :look: But if I’m making $100k and he’s making $50k then no. Because of this right here...

sgold04 said:
I’d be concerned about them resenting me. A friend recently got divorced and he was definitely bitter that she made more than him, even though they had a traditional marriage as far as how they interacted with each other.
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Every relationship I know of like this has turned out that way. People forget that marriage has always been an economic transaction. It’s how people maintain and increase their wealth. That hasn’t changed now that women are going further in their careers and that people choose partners for companionship. People still marry within their same SES anyway only now it’s called assortative mating. :rolleyes: Black and Latina women (since I’m in California) struggle with this because we go to college/grad school but not our male counterparts necessarily.
 
2) Nope. Each friend (3 of them) who did this is now on husband number 2. I suspect my other friend will end up divorced by 40.
They were all at or above national avg but their husbands increased their col without increasing their earnings in the same way.

Edit- I forgot the other associate. She divorced and dating.
So that makes 4- the 4th one’s parents tried to tell her he wasn’t good enough...
 
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WTF?! Dude what is your problem. I can't stand entitled :censored:boy like this. UGH!

movingforward13 said:
I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
Click to expand...
 
movingforward13 said:
I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
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One would think a condescending :censored: would at least know the correct version of “too” to use.
 
movingforward13 said:
I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
Click to expand...

All that projection though :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Significantly smaller? Write-off for serious relationships. In the same general salary range but earning a bit less? Not a big deal. I also take note of someone's profession to get an idea of future earning potential. I'm 30 and typically date guys my age.

Couple years ago, I experienced a bf getting salty because he presumed I earned more. When we met I was working for a start-up and earning less. Later, I switched jobs to a well-known company and although I never told him my salary, at some point he assumed that I out-earned him. I found out months later he earned about 1/2 my monthly paycheque. It was clear he had some expectations about what I should bring to the table based on that — my unwillingness to was resentful to him lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It was a huge turn off and first-hand look into the type of bitterness some men have when a woman earns more. I'm not interested in a repeat experience.
 
movingforward13 said:
I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
Click to expand...
You totally dodged a bullet :lol:

He sounds ridiculous. If there was ever a way to send him a laughing emoji instead of a "take care" this would be the time :lol:
But yeah...I know you've already responded in the best way for you of course.
 
movingforward13 said:
I agree wholeheartedly- most are already married. I would have to catch them after their first divorce and by then we could be talking about alimony and child support payments.

The rest are players and know they are in demand. Here is a response I got today after telling a guy that I won’t send him pictures but could video chat with him instead. These dudes think they are prizes....

And for the record- I didn’t give him an attitude- he asked for photos and I responded with no but we can video chat instead. It is a personal rule I have and I guess he took offense *shrugs* - he sounds like a headache so I just told him take care.
Click to expand...


OMG! SERIOUSLY?!?! The fact that he mentioned his POSSESSIONS make me question if he is lacking possession somewhere else... IJS
 
Movingforward13's experience reinforced an experience I had this past weekend. I was invited to a "Million Dollar Listing" party by a friend of mine who's been encouraging me to "get back out there". I pretty much knew what type of people would attend (presumed "men with means" and "hangers on"), but it was an excuse to get all dolled up and have some free drinks and "fancy food" (translation: we're gonna need a pizza after this).

I TRIED to be open minded, but found myself rolling my eyes within minutes of entering the party, but I put on my corporate smile and "worked the room". I was approached by an ex- NFL player who, while very attractive, turned me off within minutes.
1) He didn't look at my FACE. While I was rocking a banging dress, show a LITTLE restraint, please.
2) He felt the need to tell me that he was an ex NFL player, what he drove, and how much real estate and businesses he had within the first few minutes of meeting him (yawn).
3) When I mentioned "my face is up here," he responded "Yes, but I can't stop thinking about all the places I want to put my tongue..."

SERIOUSLY?!?! :pyro::angry2: I said "Good night" and walked away... COMPLETELY DISGUSTED.


I later came across someone who was clearly in my income bracket (physician) but immediately turned off when he discovered that my intellectual level matched his. He said that the "power couple" concept means that he wouldn't have power, and that was a turn off.

So, it seems that the wage gap can be an issue both ways which leads me to believe that a successful woman (especially one of color) will continue to be at the short end of the stick either way...
 
TinyBlu said:
So, it seems that the wage gap can be an issue both ways which leads me to believe that a successful woman (especially one of color) will continue to be at the short end of the stick either way...
Click to expand...
Yep... this reminds me of something I said in another thread- we women can do all the work, improve ourselves, and read all the relationship books. If men aren’t doing the same thing, we will ALWAYS have issues dating and marrying.

Men feel that they don’t need “help” or some self help books make it the woman’s responsibility to change a man (a man will change when he finds the perfect woman, etc.) I think that is bull for the most part in TODAY’S society because we are dealing with males who don’t know how to be men, nor had guidance on how to date women. They don’t see women as human beings but rather property to exchange out like a new car when they get bored.

My bestie just got told the other day by the man she is dating that she can’t break up with him because he bought her. Bestie is a savage though so I know she handled that.
 
movingforward13 said:
Yep... this reminds me of something I said in another thread- we women can do all the work, improve ourselves, and read all the relationship books. If men aren’t doing the same thing, we will ALWAYS have issues dating and marrying.

Men feel that they don’t need “help” or some self help books make it the woman’s responsibility to change a man (a man will change when he finds the perfect woman, etc.) I think that is bull for the most part in TODAY’S society because we are dealing with males who don’t know how to be men, nor had guidance on how to date women. They don’t see women as human beings but rather property to exchange out like a new car when they get bored.

My bestie just got told the other day by the man she is dating that she can’t break up with him because he bought her. Bestie is a savage though so I know she handled that.
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TF? In what world is this okay to say to someone? I hope she made him re-evaluate his entire existence.
 
TinyBlu said:
I later came across someone who was clearly in my income bracket (physician) but immediately turned off when he discovered that my intellectual level matched his. He said that the "power couple" concept means that he wouldn't have power, and that was a turn off.
Click to expand...

movingforward13 said:
My bestie just got told the other day by the man she is dating that she can’t break up with him because he bought her. Bestie is a savage though so I know she handled that.
Click to expand...

These men are so deficient. :nono: You would this that a physician would have more sense. Two heads are better than one 'superior' one.
 
1. Yes. If we’re talking about $10k base (excluding bonuses) difference. THen I wouldn’t write him off. However his credit needs to be near spotless. But then again I’m over 40 so my expectations are different.

2. No.
 
1. I would not. Being that I am in my early 30s, I would have to question why they have not accomplished their goals or at least made strides towards them.

I briefly dated a guy who acted like he was a good guy. He had a low paying job and a "dream" to be an entrepreneur. With further questioning, I found he really didn't have any plan and was not actively pursuing this dream at all. I believe he just threw the term entrepreneur around to impress women, but he was all talk and no action.

On the other hand, I met another guy who had a degree, he double majored in kinesiology and sociology (2 majors that don't pay well). He worked 2 jobs and 6 days a week and still probably made half of what I make. He was a really nice guy, and we got along very well, but our future together would probably have been more stress than I would experience single. I still go back and forth about whether I should have pursued a relationship with him.

All I could think about were my friends who married down. One friend married a guy who worked in the ship yard and did not find work consistently, so between jobs he worked as a cashier at a gym (mind you my friend makes 6 figures). I had another friend who married a man who worked as a manager of a mattress discounters, and she's a manager in a hospital making 6 figures. When pregnant they both worked until the very end of their pregnancies (one having her water break while at work) because they could not afford to leave earlier. They also had to come back earlier than they liked because they were the bread winners. You could see the resentment and the tension, they always tell me not to settle even though they both love their husbands.

I have come to terms with the fact that I will likely be single for the foreseeable future, but getting into a relationship that will bring me down financially is not in my plans. I don't even think it is just an issue for women who make a decent wage. I have friends who make much less than me who are struggling to find a man who is serious about settling down, so the problem is just magnified the more you make.

There was a post similar to this on a forum dominated by black men (the male LSA) and they were discussing the article someone posted upthread about highly successful women.

A lot of the responses were "why won't they build the men up, help them get to their level?" "why do women think men care about their degrees or careers" "I would never marry a career woman, all they care about is their job" "just because you make good money doesn't mean you are a good wife" "Nobody wants them because they're old" "the men who would have married them are already married" "A successful man is not trying to get married" "Why would a successful man want them when they can get any woman they want?"

2. No I have not.
 
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