The Pledge of Allegiance...Problematic for Believers?

[aribell]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
One nation, under God, individible, with liberty and justice for all.


Some Christians have taken issue with the Pledge, because it calls us to affirm our allegiance to something other than Jesus and His Church. Consider the oath that foreign service officers must take before being given an assignment:

I, [state your name.] do solemnly [affirm] that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. That I take this obligation freely and without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. That I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me, God.

​

From a biblical perspective, do you see a conflict between offering allegiance to governments and institutions and being separate from the world? Or must it be judged on a case-by-case basis, depending on whether the institution is doing right or wrong? Come out from among them and be separate says the Lord, and I will receive you.

Insights please!

 

[Crown]

On a personal basis,
How Can I be separate from the world, set apart for YHWH
And
Pledging allegiance to a human structure, often based on lie and favoring what is against the commandments of YHWH ?:scratchch

But on a social basis,
Does YHWH give us free will? Yes.
And this free will is for all of us : the right to choose.
Does YHWH tell us to obey the authorities? Yes.
So, while affirming my personal conviction, I must be willing to give space to others, knowing that I am not The Great Judge.

If possible, I avoid to pledge allegiance.
[FONT=&quot]Otherwise, I would opt for the case by case basis.[/FONT]

 

[aribell]

^^^Thank you Crown.


More food for thought. Joseph, Daniel, Nathaniel, Esther were all faithful servants of God who were also called to serve in high positions within the pagan kingdoms of the day. In the New Testament, there is mention of believers who are "of Caesar's household" as well as Roman soldiers who had faith in Jesus.

What I wonder with the Old Testament examples is whether they are special cases because in all of those instances, Joseph, Daniel, Esther, Nathaniel, were in one way or another subject to pagan rulers against their will. Joseph had been kidnapped and sold, and the rest lived during times in which the Israelites were in captivity. Nevertheless, if serving under pagan rulers were absolutely impermissible, couldn't they have simply refused to do so?

At the same time, in Hebrews, the speaks of Moses' choice to leave his position of royalty within Egypt in order to be with the people of God. "For if they had sought an earthly kingdom, they would have had opportunity to return."

Just thinking aloud...

 

[Shimmie]

Nicola, this is such a good question.

I'll be honest, when I'm in an environment where the 'pledge' is taking place, I will respectfully place my right hand over my heart and 'listen'. Unless they say 'one nation under God, I'm not a part of it.

My allegiance is not to the flag..... instead I thank God for this country and I especially thank God for those who have served this country and have sacrificed their lives and give honour for the lives lost. Too many have fought, bled, suffered and died to give me something that few others have.

To God be all of the Glory and To God for the hearts of men who died for the name that the flag represents. That's where I leave it. God is first and then the gratitude for the lives who have suffered and died.

God created this earth for us... men died to preserve God's gift of this land. They didn't have to, yet they did and they each went forth fighting for the freedom which God has given us in this land.

Hope my post makes sense.... it's after midnight and I'm on my way to

Sweet sleep precious Nicola.... :Rose:

 

[Crown]

^^^Thank you Crown.
More food for thought. Joseph, Daniel, Nathaniel, Esther were all faithful servants of God who were also called to serve in high positions within the pagan kingdoms of the day. In the New Testament, there is mention of believers who are "of Caesar's household" as well as Roman soldiers who had faith in Jesus.

What I wonder with the Old Testament examples is whether they are special cases because in all of those instances, Joseph, Daniel, Esther, Nathaniel, were in one way or another subject to pagan rulers against their will. Joseph had been kidnapped and sold, and the rest lived during times in which the Israelites were in captivity. Nevertheless, if serving under pagan rulers were absolutely impermissible, couldn't they have simply refused to do so?

Dan. 1.5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king's meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king. 1.6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: 1.7 Unto whom the prince of the eunuchs gave names: for he gave unto Daniel the name of Belteshazzar; and to Hananiah, of Shadrach; and to Mishael, of Meshach; and to Azariah, of Abednego.

I think someone can serve somewhere or work in a pagan area without pledging allegiance.

An example : Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azaria. Even their names were changed, but they continued to stand for YHWH, not for the pagan practices.
They became vegetarian instead of eating what was served in the court of the king, because for them, for their Elohim, it was abominable.
They have preferred to be burnt, or devoured (Daniel) by lions (but they had faith that YHWH will keep them safe) instead of bowing before a statue, or not praying and worshiping YHWH.

Another example : Naaman. Allow me to just put the verses.
2Kg. 5.15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel: now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant. 5.16 But he said, As the LORD liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And he urged him to take it; but he refused. 5.17 And Naaman said, Shall there not then, I pray thee, be given to thy servant two mules' burden of earth? for thy servant will henceforth offer neither burnt offering nor sacrifice unto other gods, but unto the LORD. 5.18 In this thing the LORD pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand, and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon: when I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the LORD pardon thy servant in this thing. 5.19 And he (Elisha) said unto him, Go in peace. So he departed from him a little way.

At the same time, in Hebrews, the speaks of Moses' choice to leave his position of royalty within Egypt in order to be with the people of God. "For if they had sought an earthly kingdom, they would have had opportunity to return."

Just thinking aloud...

 

[Laela]

This is what I do as well...

I'll be honest, when I'm in an environment where the 'pledge' is taking place, I will respectfully place my right hand over my heart and 'listen'.

 

[aribell]

So strange and incredibly timely that this was bumped today...Hmmm...

I feel slightly more open about this question today than before. The reason is that to pledge loyalty to something (or someone) is not itself a bad thing. The question is whether the person or thing is bad, or whether what the union is devoted to is ungodly. While there is much ungodliness in the US and in its laws, I see nothing unbiblical or immoral in the Constitution itself. I believe the principles embodied in it are good and not in conflict with the Christian conscience.

I still dislike the pledge because it's unnecessary and smacks of political indoctrination. But for Americans who serve their country in the military, foreign service, etc., they must be loyal, and anyone seeking to become an American citizen must make the same affirmation. Christians do not renounce their natural citizenship (Paul was quick to pull out the "Roman" card), so do we attempt to have our cake and eat it to by holding steadfastly to all the privileges and protections of citizenship--especially those wrought by those who do pledge loyalty--only to turn around and say, "I can't affirm loyalty to this country."

The Kingdom of God is first and foremost, and all else is subordinate to that and only has purpose within it. Christ's Lordship means that every relationship, priority, etc. is put in order according to His Kingdom purpose, but it seems like loyalties (like relationships) still exist.

That was probably jumbled...I'd be glad to hear others' thoughts.

Perhaps the Lord has something else to reveal on this question.

 

[Guitarhero]

To me, it's the same as with a job and you enter it seeing the undercover evil being committed there. There is an order to things. I do not like signing the little oath to defend the constitution of the U.S. against communism etc. cuz it's fake, yet, I do it knowing full well that I don't care if this country ends and our own are reinstated. Maybe it's my socialization...but we rode both sides of the fence to get what we needed to survive. I do have a limit, though. That's my only input.