The Afterlife (not for the grieving, may trigger emotions)

[Farida]

Ladies,

Whenever someone dies, people say they are looking down from heaven.

There are several views:

1. A dead person's spirit ascends to heaven, waiting reunion with the body when Christ returns. So yes, is looking down on us.
2. The person's spirit is at rest, waiting for resurrection. So no, the person is not looking down on us.

Which one is it ladies? Would you please provide scriptural support too?

Thanks so much! I learn so much from the lovely lhcf ladies.

 

[divya]

Neither, but the second option is closer to the Scriptures.

There is no immortal spirit (soul) that lives within us as a separate entity. The Bible states that God alone is immortal - 1 Timothy 6:16. If we had some inner spirit that did not die, then we would be immortal. Such teaching is contrary to the Scriptures. See the verse below.

Genesis 2:7- And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Therefore, only when God gives you the breath of life, then you are a soul. In other words, the Scriptures refer to a living human being as a soul. Once you have died, then you are not longer a soul. There is no separate soul living within a person. That idea came into Christianity largely through Greek philosophy, although its origins have been found in Egyptian thought.

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Now regarding life after death (going to cut and paste from previous discussions):

The translations for hell in the majority of instances in the Scriptures is the grave.

Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

The translation for hell here is the "grave/the place (state) of the departed souls."

For your reference, I am using the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, with Complete and Updated Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. Christ gained the victory over death and the grave. See below.

I Cor 15:55 - O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

In this verse, the term grave is given the same reference as hell in Acts 2. The grave is just as defined - the grave/the place (state) of the departed souls.

Mat.12:40 - For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

________________________________________

The grave (hell) is in a sense, a holding place until judgment for the wicked or until the second coming for those who die in Christ... Many times in the Scriptures, the Bible refers to death as a sleep. One example of this is where Jesus spoke about Lazarus:

John 11:11-14 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Here Jesus refers to death as a sleep. We get a great picture of what happens to us when we die (sleep) in Christ and what will happen when Jesus comes etc. When Jesus returns the dead in Christ will rise first and those who are alive will be "caught up" with them in the air.

1 Thess 4:16 -17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
_______________________________________________________

So now we understand, that like Lazarus, those who died in Christ will remain in the grave until Jesus comes to raise them. However, those wicked who are living at the time of the Second Coming will end up dying due to the awesomeness of Christ's coming.

2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So now we see that the grave (hell) will be the holding place for all the wicked until judgment - until the final destruction of the wicked. Those wicked who were already dead before Christ's coming remain in the grave and those who are wicked and living at the time of Christ's coming will die due to His brightness. So all the wicked will die.

Then the Bible tell us how long they will be dead, and when they will be allowed to live again.

Rev 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The Bible makes sure to tell us that after the 1000 years, that is the first time that the wicked (in general) are allowed to live again. They are not resurrected before that. They are not already in any burning place. They are in the grave (hell).

After they are resurrected, the final destruction will occur.

Rev. 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice the Bible says that "death and hell" delivered up the dead which were in them. It would not make sense if death and "burning fire" delivered up the dead for judgment. When you look at the Greek, it translates to "death and the grave" delivered up the dead for judgment. That makes sense because the wicked were dead and in the grave (hell). So they were resurrected out of the grave for the final judgment. Then death and the grave are cast into the lake of fire. That is the second death. Ultimately, the wicked are destroyed. as are death and the grave (hell). That means that finally God does away with it all. No more dying. No more grave...so more burying our loved ones. So then we move into Rev. 21...

Rev. 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[divya]

Sorry so long Viv, but the Scriptures tell us to build "precept upon precept, line upon line." There must be substantial support for our beliefs and they should be consistent with other Scriptures.

Isaiah 28:9 -10 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

[blazingthru]

Sorry so long Viv, but the Scriptures tell us to build "precept upon precept, line upon line." There must be substantial support for our beliefs and they should be consistent with other Scriptures.


I agree with everything that was said. I used this to finally accept that what I was reading over and over again is really the truth. I understood that when you died you went to hell if you were a sinner and if you were saved you went to heaven, There is no scripture that says it happens at death. But I believed it anyway, since so many others did as well. I just thought I didn't understand but when I read the same thing again and agian. I realize that what I was told was not what God says, it was not in the word of God and I was wrong and the word straighten me out.

 

[KiSseS03]

Wow, this is interesting, I have A LOT of reading to do.

 

[**Tasha*Love**]

Interesting Thread OP. Divya your post brought alot of questions to mind and I am a bit confused. This year marks the 5th year of my mother's death and I can finally read a thread such as this without feeling pain, God is good! He has truly healed me of my sorrow. I am truly trying to get an understanding please bear with me.

I don't understand this statement - Therefore, only when God gives you the breath of life, then you are a soul. In other words, the Scriptures refer to a living human being as a soul. Once you have died, then you are not longer a soul. There is no separate soul living within a person. That idea came into Christianity largely through Greek philosophy, although its origins have been found in Egyptian thought.

BUT I found this passage -> The Gospels tell us that at the moment of his death, Jesus prayed, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” and then “he yielded up his spirit” (Luke 23:46; Mt 27:50). Another passage I found -> The first Christian martyr (after Jesus) was Stephen. Acts 7:59-60 describes his death: “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

Why would Jesus and Stephen commit their spirits to God if the soul dies with the body?

Another passage -> There is the example of Elijah raising the widow’s son from the dead. “And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived” (1 Kings 17:21-22).

In this case the soul returned to the body after the child was revived which means the soul must have left the body after death?

In Luke 16:22 - And it came to pass, that the beggar (Lazarus) died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Abraham of course died long before Lazarus so exactly where was he carried to - heaven?

One more thing, from my understanding there is a paradise after death which is where the spirit will be until Judgement Day?

Philippians 1:23-24 - Paul stated “I am hard pressed between the two (life and death). My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account”.


Paul also stated - 2 Co 5:6-8; NIV “Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord” This statement can't mean he will be with the Lord after Judgement day because after Judgment Day all Christians will not be away from their bodies, but will have resurrected bodies???


I look forward to your responses

 

[Farida]

This thread is very interesting. Keep it coming. I am not done reading, but I will be.

 

[divya]

Here is a good analysis regarding the idea of the soul being some immortal entity inside of people, rather than the Biblical teaching that the soul = a human being.

IMMORTALITY? Ekkehardt Mueller

“Is death necessary?“, asked biologist G. R. Taylor and stated that in 1968 in the USA alone more than a thousand teams of scientists were working on the issue of growing old and the problem of death. Some people are frozen at their death. They want to be revived as soon as a cure for their disease or the aging process has been found. Most of humanity seems to have the desire to live forever. Many people claim that although their body is mortal, their soul is not. Therefore the question must be asked: Is there a natural immortality of humans or their soul?

I. The Immortal Soul and Scripture
1. Scripture and Immortality

There are only two biblical passages using the word “immortality”:
(1) 1 Tim 6:14-16 - God alone possesses immortality.
(2) 1 Cor 15:51-54 - Only at their resurrection, when Jesus comes again, will believers receive immortality.

Eternal life is always dependent on Jesus. Without Him there is no everlasting life, not on earth, nor in heaven, nor in hell - Rom 6:23; John 3:36; 5:24; 1 John 5:11, 12.

2. Scripture and Soul

The Hebrew and Greek terms translated “soul” can be rendered in different ways. They stand for “life” (Gen 9:4; Matt 2:20), “heart” (Eph 6:6), “emotions” (Song 1:7; Mark 14:34), and frequently for “person”:

(1) Humans do not have a “soul” but are a “soul” - 1 Cor 15:45; Gen 2:7.
(2) Even animals are “souls” - Gen 1:20; 9:10; Rev 16:3.
(3) The “soul” can weep - Jer 13:17.
(4) “Souls” can be taken captive - Jer 52:28-30.
(5) “Souls” can be baptized - Acts 2:41.
(6) The “soul” can die - Eze 18:4; Jas 5:20; Rev 20:4; Ps 89:48; Job 36:14; Lev 19:8; 21:1, 11.

Result: Very often the term “soul” designates the entire human being. It is not used in connection with immortality. The concept of an immortal soul is not found in the Bible.

_____________________________________________

II. The Idea of Immortality in History

1. Support for the Natural Immortality of the Soul

(1) Satan - Gen 3:4 (in contrast to Gen 2:17)
(2) Pagans - The doctrine of the immortal soul has been called a characteristic of paganism and has led to ancestor cult, human sacrifices, building of the pyramids, etc.
(3) The Greeks - Plato called the body the prison of the soul and understood death as the liberation of the soul. Aristotle shared similar views.
(4) Churches - Probably during the 3rd century AD the platonic doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul had already permeated the Christian church. Representatives were Athenagoras, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and Augustin. It was fully developed by Thomas Aquinas in the 13th century. In December 1513 the dogma of the natural immortality of the soul was proclaimed by the Roman Catholic Church. Most Protestant Churches have also accepted this doctrine.


2. Opposition to the Natural Immortality of the Soul

(1) God - Eccl 9:5, 6, 10
(2) Israel - Dan 12:13
(3) Jesus Christ - John 6:40. Jesus did not experience his death as the liberation of his soul from the prison of his body which he, therefore, should have desired and accepted happily. He suffered.
(4) Christians - Early church fathers such as Justin the Martyr, Tatian, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and Polycarp rejected this doctrine. Luther was ambivalent. A number of well-known modern Protestant theologians such as Karl Barth, Emil Brunner, and Oscar Cullmann also believe that it has no foundation in Scripture.

 

[divya]

III. Consequences

1. Teachings which Are Not Found in Scripture Are Grounded on the Idea of the Natural Immortality of the Soul
These doctrines include (1) purgatory, (2) indulgences, (3) prayer, alms, and masses for the dead, (4) the constantly burning hell, (5) veneration of Mary and the saints (cf. 1 Tim 2:5 and Exod 20:4), (6) reincarnation, and (7) spiritualism - Deut 18:10-12; 2 Cor 11, 14.

2. Biblical Teachings Are Darkened
(1) The Second Coming of Christ. During church history the second coming of Jesus lost its importance in the Catholic Church and in many Protestant churches.

(2) Resurrection of the Dead. The resurrection is the divine antithesis to the pagan doctrine of the immortality of the soul.

(3) Judgment at the End of the World. Such a judgment would be superfluous if the souls were already in heaven, purgatory, or hell.


3. God’s Character Is Darkened

(1) God would appear to be a liar who cannot be trusted (cf. Gen 2:17).

(2) God would be without compassion allowing people who supposedly had made it to heaven to watch the pain and suffering of their loved ones still living on earth without being able to intervene.

(3) God would be an unjust tyrant who punishes people in hell forever, although they have sinned for a limited time only.

The doctrine of the natural immortality of the soul creates a cruel picture of God and distorts Scripture. However, Scripture teaches that God is love and cares for us (1 John 4:8-9; Mal 1:2). We have to make the decision whom to trust.

God’s Statement
↓
“You will surely die.”
↓
Jesus is the gate to eternal life


Satan’s Statement
↓
You surely will not die!
↓
Death is the gate to eternal life

 

[divya]

Interesting Thread OP. Divya your post brought alot of questions to mind and I am a bit confused. This year marks the 5th year of my mother's death and I can finally read a thread such as this without feeling pain, God is good! He has truly healed me of my sorrow. I am truly trying to get an understanding please bear with me.

I don't understand this statement - Therefore, only when God gives you the breath of life, then you are a soul. In other words, the Scriptures refer to a living human being as a soul. Once you have died, then you are not longer a soul. There is no separate soul living within a person. That idea came into Christianity largely through Greek philosophy, although its origins have been found in Egyptian thought.

BUT I found this passage -> The Gospels tell us that at the moment of his death, Jesus prayed, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” and then “he yielded up his spirit” (Luke 23:46; Mt 27:50). Another passage I found -> The first Christian martyr (after Jesus) was Stephen. Acts 7:59-60 describes his death: “And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

Why would Jesus and Stephen commit their spirits to God if the soul dies with the body?

In the Scriptures, a human being = a soul. There is no inner being living inside of you that is immortal. Only God is immortal. 1 Timothy 6:16 - Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

All the verse that you have given are correct. However, the only reason why they seem problematic is because so many Christians have adopted the belief that the word "spirit," like "soul" refers to some inner being inside of them. Here is a sound explanation...

Problem:
It is frequently understood from this passage that Stephen expected Jesus Christ to immediately receive his "immortal soul" in heaven.

Solution:

1. If the real Stephen was the spirit, what is the "he" of verse 60 which "fell asleep"? The personal pronouns are associated with the body, not something inside the body. This use of the pronouns is fatal to the idea that the real Stephen was an immortal essence within the body.

2. "Sleep" is a scriptural expression describing the unconsciousness of death and implying the waking at the Resurrection Day. For this there is unimpeachable evidence in John ll; esp. vs. 11, 14, 24, cf. Dan. 12:2; 1 Cor. 15:6,18. The fact that Stephen fell asleep indicates he did not immediately go to his reward. (See 1 Thess. 4:13-16.)

3. One could handle the problem of what Stephen meant by the expression "Lord Jesus receive my spirit" by taking the following approach;

1. Show scripturally when the righteous (and hence Stephen) will receive their reward, e.g., 1 Cor. 15:22-23.

2. Indicate the uses of spirit - e.g., that the "spirit" is not the immortal part of man, but the life-power which God gives. (Job 34:14,15; Gen. 7:21,22, - -"the breath of the spirit of life" mg.).

3. Then finally show that Stephen had the confidence that as God sent forth His Spirit and raised Jesus, likewise he would be raised. In the death state Stephen's life would be "hid with Christ", and when Christ appears the second time, then Stephen would appear with him in glory. (Col. 3:3,4).

4. Jesus uttered similar words to those of Stephen, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit". (Luke 23:46). But Christ went to hell, not heaven. (Acts 2:27; cf. John 20:17 -- "I am not yet ascended to my Father"[/B]).

Another passage -> There is the example of Elijah raising the widow’s son from the dead. “And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived” (1 Kings 17:21-22).

In this case the soul returned to the body after the child was revived which means the soul must have left the body after death?

1 Kings 17:21
"And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again."

Problem:

Only the hard pressed resort to this passage to prove the immortality of the soul. It is argued that when the child's soul left him, his immortal entity departed to heaven.

Solution:

1. The passage neither states nor implies that the soul decribed is immortal or that it would depart to heaven. Such views must be read into this passage. They are assumptions for which this passage offers no support.

2. The personal pronoun "him" describes the lifeless body. If the real child was the immortal soul tabernacling in a mortal, earthly body, then the pronoun should have been descriptive of the soul and (as it is) of the body.

3. It was not the child that had departed, neither was it the child which returned. The child was dead. He died when life was lost, he became living when life was restored. The Hebrew word, "nephesh" translated "soul" in this passage is translated "life" in Gen. 9:4; Lev. 17:11; Deut. 12:23.


4. If, as some argue, that the soul of the child went immediately to bliss in heaven, would it not have been better for the prophet to have left the soul of the child to enjoy bliss in heaven rather than to recall it to the travail of earthly life, and possible later consignment to the fires of hell?

http://www.wrestedscriptures.com/b01immortality/1kings17v21.html

 

[JinaRicci]

I am so glad we're talking about this. Let’s pray that God continues to guide us as we study His word.

It’s understandable that people want to be comforted when their loved ones die by thinking that they're in heaven or that part of them is living on.

Divya mentioned some effects of believing in our immortality. Let's go back to where this idea started.


Origin of the idea that you don’t really die:

Remember how man was created: Genesis 2:7 (All texts are from NIV)

The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

From the very beginning, God warned about what would happen if Adam & Eve disobeyed.

Genesis 2: 16, 17
And the Lord God commanded the man “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it, you will surely die.”

But when the devil tempted Eve, he lied to her, telling her she wouldn't die.

Genesis 3: 4, 5
“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

This is a dangerous trick b/c it sets the stage for other deceptions.

1) If you don’t really die, then there are no consequences to sin.

Eve and then Adam took the first bite, believing that (Genesis 3: 6, 7).

Here’s what God said about their disobedience (Genesis 3: 16-19):

v 19 “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

God is serious- death is unavoidable because of sin.

If we believe we don’t really die, then the ultimate consequence of sin doesn’t exist. This makes it easier for us to disobey. We see this played out when people believe that no matter how they live their life, they will still end up in heaven.

2) If we don’t really die then we are not in need of salvation.

If sin doesn’t result in death, then there was no point of Christ dying for us. All that pain and suffering-God’s whole plan of redemption would be in vain.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If we already have eternal life despite our sin, then how is it a gift of God? Why would we need Jesus or need to repent of our sins and accept Him in our lives?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

See also Romans 3: 22-24

If we don’t confess and accept Christ, we lose out. We’ve all sinned so our default destiny is death. God’s gift is our only hope.

Yet many believe that they can live however they want, never repenting, never accepting Christ yet still expect to go to heaven - a mistake that can cost them eternal life.

3) If we go straight to heaven when we die, then we bypass God’s judgment

Some say that b/c we have eternal life through Christ we go to heaven right away. So what about judgment? When does it happen? Who has authority to judge?

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you- who are you to judge your neighbor?

2 Peter 3: 10-13
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming...

Revelation 20: 11- 15
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The Bible says that judgment will happen at the end of this earth. This determines whether or not you go to heaven. The judge is God- He is the only one who can know every secret thing. We don't know those secrets- even for people we think are ‘good.'

Yet when people die, some say they have gone to heaven. But we don’t have authority to do that and this suggests that judgment is happening immediately-not at the end of this earth and also in private or secret. This is where the deception starts to affect many people who believe in Christ.

Why is the timing of judgment so important?
a) It is linked to the end of the earth, the end of all evil

Revelation 21 continues to show what happens after judgment.

v 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
v 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

b) It signifies the end of the war between God & the devil.

Revelation 12
v 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 21
v 6,7 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.”

c) It is linked to Christ’s second coming

John 14: 2, 3
In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

Acts 1: 9-11
v 11 “…This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Revelation 1:7
Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him…

Christ has promised to return for us- why would He need to come back if we are already in heaven? Every eye will see him- that means it will be public. This is so crucial b/c in the last days many will claim to be Christ- in order to deceive.

Matthew 24
v 23-27 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look , here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

d) It points to the significance of resurrection

1 Corinthians 15
v 17-18 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

v 24-26 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

v 50- 55 I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed...

I go and prepare a place- that means he’s not ready for me to show up. I also can’t inherit heaven with a sinful body. The exchange of flesh and blood-perishable, mortal body for immortality comes in the end. Even those still alive (not all sleep) when Christ returns will be changed.

God uses baptism to demonstrate that. When we're dipped under the water, we stop breathing for a moment, signifying death & when we're pulled up from the water, we are new-begin to live a new life. Our sins are washed away- because of Christ’s sacrifice. This is the essence of resurrection.

But we cannot inherit eternal life without Christ being raised from the dead, unless he destroys the last enemy- death. Christ’s return proves that He was resurrected- that He wasn't just a man who walked this earth. This is so significant to our faith and salvation, how could we bypass it?

The idea that we go straight to heaven takes the focus away from the real end time events including Christ’s return, the significance of his resurrection, the judgment, end of the earth, sin & pain & the Victory over the war & death.

Death would be permanent if not for Christ's resurrection. This is the hope we should have that comforts us when our loved ones die. That it’s not over-death in that sense is not final -we will see them again in heaven- if we are all faithful.

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Daniel 12:2
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 11:11
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Thessalonians 5:10
Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Exodus 35:21
Then everyone came whose heart was stirred, and everyone whose spirit was willing, and they brought the LORD’s offering for the work of the tabernacle of meeting, for all its service, and for the holy garments.

Numbers 27:16
“Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,

We are all spirit beings inside of a flesh body and we go into a spiritual sleep until Jesus returns and takes his chosen people to Heaven or sends those against him to Hell.

We are flesh(hunger, thirst, pain), soul(emotions, feelings, etc), and spirit. Our Flesh is the obvious part of us that is dwelling in this world. Our soul is what attracts us to one another as well as to things. And our spirit is where God dwells within us or it is the place where some people have turned away from him. It is on the spiritual level where God is concerned with us most and that is the part of us that either lives in eternity with him or seperated from him. Our flesh and soul are what get us in trouble with sinning and can pull soul away from God.



I would HIGHLY suggest that anyone seeking to understand deeper these things to look up and study "soul", "flesh", "spirit" with a Bible concordance and a couple of Bible versions so that you can get a full grasp of each word and the context of each word

 

[Laela]

ITA, sis... ITA

I would HIGHLY suggest that anyone seeking to understand deeper these things to look up and study "soul", "flesh", "spirit" with a Bible concordance and a couple of Bible versions so that you can get a full grasp of each word and the context of each word

 

[OhmyKimB]

Subscribing so that I can read all of this and look in my bible about it at the same time

 

[divya]

I agree with that we must study "soul," "flesh" and "spirit" with a Bible concordance but even more, with a translation. The term "soul" has been significantly dealt with in post #10, now lets deal more with "spirit."

Ecclesiates 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The translation of the word spirit in Hebrew is ruach. Ruach simply means breath.

Here is a further explanation:

Problem:
This passage is cited as evidence that man's immortal spirit (or soul) leaves the body at death and returns to God.

Solution:

1. The passage makes no distinction between "good" and "bad" spirits.

2. If the spirit is to return to God, it must have come from God. But who would suggest one has a conscious existence before the earthly life begins? Therefore, there is no reason to expect a conscious existence when this life ends.

3. The word "spirit" (Hebrew "ruach") is the same as in Ecc. 3:19 (Heb. "ruach", translated "breath"). could any argue that beasts have, or are, immortal "spirits"?

4. The writer of Ecclesiastes emphatically teaches the mortality of man. (See Ecc. 9:5,6,10; 3:19,20).

__________________________________

Just for clarification purposes:

Ecclesiates 9:5-10 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment. Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun. Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


The Bible tells us over and over again what happens when we die and when our reward shall be given to us.

Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


1 Thess 4:16 -17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

I Cor 15:52 -54 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Rev 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

John 5:28 - 29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".

 

[divya]

Just to summarize...

"Spirit" is the term ruach in the Hebrew, which translates to breath in regards to human beings.

"Soul" in Hebrew is nephesh in the Hebrew, which simply means a living creature (human or animal).

A soul simply refers to a living individual. The spirit is the breath of life from God. When God gives someone the breath of life, and at that point, the person becomes a living soul (a living person). Genesis 2:27 When a person dies, their breath of life (spirit) goes back to God and they are no longer a living soul.

No immortal entity that lives inside of you. The Bible teaches that humans are not immortal. That is consistent with Ecclesiastes and all other verses. Jesus will give the righteous immortality when He comes again, at the Second Coming. - Revelation 22:12, I Cor 15:52 -54.

If one argues that there is a soul/spirit within someone that does not die, then they argue that they are immortal, which contradicts the Bible. ONLY GOD IS IMMORTAL. Arguing that there is a soul/spirit that does not die but runs of to heaven or hell at death also contradicts the Biblical teaching that Jesus is coming to give us our reward at the Second Coming.

This is why the Bible states:

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

When will this happen?

1 Thess 4:16 -17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

John 5:28 - 29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.".

Those who die remain in the grave until Jesus comes again - then they will receive their reward - heaven or the lake of fire (second and permanent death).