Spiritual Fathers- What do you think of this?

[Southernbella.]

Ok, so I'd always been taught that your pastor is your spiritual father, and I've never had a problem with that. I was doing some studying today and came across this scripture:


Matthew 23

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[1] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi[2] by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[3] 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

What do you think about this? I admit, I'd never seen any biblical basis for the "spiritual father" thing, but this appears to me to contradict that.

 

[alexstin]

Ok, so I'd always been taught that your pastor is your spiritual father, and I've never had a problem with that. I was doing some studying today and came across this scripture:


Matthew 23

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[1] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi[2] by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[3] 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

What do you think about this? I admit, I'd never seen any biblical basis for the "spiritual father" thing, but this appears to me to contradict that.

Biblical basis: 1tim 1:2

To Timothy, {my} true child in {the} faith: Grace, mercy {and} peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 tim 1:18
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, {my} son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,

2 tim 1:2

To Timothy, my beloved son: Grace, mercy {and} peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.


Spiritual fathers/ mothers are mentors. They don't have the authority to tell you what to do. They can advise, but it's up to us to "take it or leave it".

 

[Southernbella.]

Biblical basis: 1tim 1:2

To Timothy, {my} true child in {the} faith: Grace, mercy {and} peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 tim 1:18
This command I entrust to you, Timothy, {my} son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,

2 tim 1:2

To Timothy, my beloved son: Grace, mercy {and} peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.


Spiritual fathers/ mothers are mentors. They don't have the authority to tell you what to do. They can advise, but it's up to us to "take it or leave it".

So, do you think that contradicts Jesus' words to not call anyone on earth Father? I get what you're saying in that there can be mentors who may be elders that help lead less mature Christians, but I'm talking about the whole concept of spiritual fatherhood, where you have adults calling their pastors "Daddy" and first ladies "Mom" and considering them to be above them, spiritually.

 

[alexstin]

So, do you think that contradicts Jesus' words to not call anyone on earth Father? I get what you're saying in that there can be mentors who may be elders that help lead less mature Christians, but I'm talking about the whole concept of spiritual fatherhood, where you have adults calling their pastors "Daddy" and first ladies "Mom" and considering them to be above them, spiritually.

Well, I figure if Paul called Tim his son then they had a father/son relationship spiritually. I really think it's the way in which it is used. I've seen spiritual fathers who manipulate and abuse their spiritual children. I believe that no one in this life should hold the place of me submitting to and they running my life. As I submit to Holy Spirit, He does that and for me to give someone else that place would be setting them up as God in my life.

I've seen people who really want to marry someone but if they're spiritual father doesn't approve of that person then they won't. Again, I believe this is the time of relationship we are to stay away from.

If we took it literally as calling no one "father" on earth than wouldn't that apply to our natural parents or someone that was a parental figure to us?

I can have respect for and learn alot from those who have gone before me and did it victoriously. Putting them on a pedestal and thinking they're better than me and I need them in order to hear God...... nope.

 

[Southernbella.]

Well, I figure if Paul called Tim his son then they had a father/son relationship spiritually. I really think it's the way in which it is used. I've seen spiritual fathers who manipulate and abuse their spiritual children. I believe that no one in this life should hold the place of me submitting to and they running my life. As I submit to Holy Spirit, He does that and for me to give someone else that place would be setting them up as God in my life.

I've seen people who really want to marry someone but if they're spiritual father doesn't approve of that person then they won't. Again, I believe this is the time of relationship we are to stay away from.

If we took it literally as calling no one "father" on earth than wouldn't that apply to our natural parents or someone that was a parental figure to us?

I can have respect for and learn alot from those who have gone before me and did it victoriously. Putting them on a pedestal and thinking they're better than me and I need them in order to hear God...... nope.

I agree with you about the earthly parental part, which is why i why I'm interpreting to mean that Jesus meant spirutally. Since we're all brothers , we aren't to esteem other Christians higher than us. Maybe the semantics aren't as important as the concept, because like 1 Timothy said, Paul did call Timothy his son in the faith.

I now exactly what you mean about people who get their spiritual father's approval before doing things. I was one of those people. Now I'm thinking I was in error. If God has already shown me something, why do I need approval from a person? I guess I was doing it out of respect.

I wonder what kind of relationship Paul and Timothy had, and what their interactions might have been like. In reading those passages, especially 1 tim 1:12-18, it seems like Paul treated Timothy like a real son, giving him instructions and then shooting him out like an arrow to learn and to teach. He didn't try to hold onto him and keep him under him.

 

[PaperClip]

So, do you think that contradicts Jesus' words to not call anyone on earth Father? I get what you're saying in that there can be mentors who may be elders that help lead less mature Christians, but I'm talking about the whole concept of spiritual fatherhood, where you have adults calling their pastors "Daddy" and first ladies "Mom" and considering them to be above them, spiritually.

So, do you think that contradicts Jesus' words to not call anyone on earth Father? I get what you're saying in that there can be mentors who may be elders that help lead less mature Christians, but I'm talking about the whole concept of spiritual fatherhood, where you have adults calling their pastors "Daddy" and first ladies "Mom" and considering them to be above them, spiritually.

I wanted to jump in real quick on the point about adults calling their pastors "Dad" and "Mom" esp. because my spiritual parents really try to discourage this, at least on a natural level.... They have their own natural children, and for their "spiritual children" to use this terminology is kind of not ok, in their eyes, and I agree.... Being the children of pastors is already a tough thing because these children do not have a choice in sharing their parents with the world/church, if you will.... I know my spiritual parents work diligently to maintain a healthy natural family dynamic.... At the same time, they are true spiritual parents in that they do care for the sheep and so on and so forth....

With regard to the original question about spiritual fathers, I was taught the same as you, Lauren450, concerning that. And I'm ok with it. I don't call my spiritual father "Daddy" at all because 1) he's not my natural father and 2) I GOT a real (natural) daddy! (Said with much pride and attitude 'cause I'm a true daddy's girl!).... I call my spiritual father by his ecumenical title "Bishop" and when he was a pastor, it was Pastor So-and-so....

With regard to the scripture you quoted, I feel (and this is just that, a sense), that this might refer to (ok...the Holy Spirit is speaking in my mind as I write this)... that prior to the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, people had to engage in rituals and there were designated people (Levites) who had to go in their stead to the Holy of Holies to get the sins removed from the people. So when the Lord God put on His earthsuit and came on Planet Earth through the Virgin Mary, He came to set things in order, including to inform/remind us that our GOD is Father, and there are more scriptures that say this than say not to call our pastors and elders "fathers"... so as not to confuse the issue of IDOLIZING our pastors/elders/rabbis....

But I understand rabbi really means "teacher", yes, so maybe as the Big religions/faiths/denominations (Judaism, Christianity, Roman Catholicism) play the whole "father" thing out in various ways, this sort of distinguishes the three.... I don't know exactly....

I know there's a scripture that says something like we have many teachers but one father.... It's in the New Testament.... somewhere around Ephesians or Colossians? Help a sistah out! (Smile!)

My humble thoughts.... That's my quick answer....

 

[alexstin]

I agree with you about the earthly parental part, which is why i why I'm interpreting to mean that Jesus meant spirutally. Since we're all brothers , we aren't to esteem other Christians higher than us. Maybe the semantics aren't as important as the concept, because like 1 Timothy said, Paul did call Timothy his son in the faith.

I now exactly what you mean about people who get their spiritual father's approval before doing things. I was one of those people. Now I'm thinking I was in error. If God has already shown me something, why do I need approval from a person? I guess I was doing it out of respect.

I wonder what kind of relationship Paul and Timothy had, and what their interactions might have been like. In reading those passages, especially 1 tim 1:12-18, it seems like Paul treated Timothy like a real son, giving him instructions and then shooting him out like an arrow to learn and to teach. He didn't try to hold onto him and keep him under him.

Exactly!!!! So many pastors miss this point. That is exactly how I see it. They have people that have been in their midst for 10 years still running to them for everything.

Personally, I think this is the biggest reason for the Superstar Syndrome that is so prevalent today. If you run to your pastor or the church for everything pertaining to your relationship with the Father you are bound to see those people as bigger than life and having more authority than those sitting in the audience.

Oh, I was one of those people too that wanted to get approval from my "spiritual father".It was more manipulation and deception as opposed to repsect though. Thank God He delivered me.

 

[PaperClip]

Well, I figure if Paul called Tim his son then they had a father/son relationship spiritually. I really think it's the way in which it is used. I've seen spiritual fathers who manipulate and abuse their spiritual children. I believe that no one in this life should hold the place of me submitting to and they running my life. As I submit to Holy Spirit, He does that and for me to give someone else that place would be setting them up as God in my life.

I've seen people who really want to marry someone but if they're spiritual father doesn't approve of that person then they won't. Again, I believe this is the time of relationship we are to stay away from.

If we took it literally as calling no one "father" on earth than wouldn't that apply to our natural parents or someone that was a parental figure to us?

I can have respect for and learn alot from those who have gone before me and did it victoriously. Putting them on a pedestal and thinking they're better than me and I need them in order to hear God...... nope.

For me, I wouldn't necessarily say "approval" but how about "confirmation" or at least some kind of consultation with those whom a person has submitted to for spiritual guidance....

I'm thinking of those scriptures that say to seek wise counsel....

But at the end of it all, it is (should be) the individual's decision.... But some people take things too far (on both ends).... On one hand, the pastor has been idolized to such an extent that the power/control gets to their head; on the other hand, the people idolize the pastor so much that they won't make a move without the pastor's approval.... This is resulting in an ineffective Body.... a slowed Body... a retarded Body... but as we can see, the Lord is shaking some things to get the Body back in order....

Lauren450, I was kind of like that as well...but I've changed somewhat. I love and trust and respect my spiritual parents and I honor them just like I do my natural parents... so when I need to make a BIG LIFE DECISION (like when I had surgery or when I consider relocating, I inform them of what's going on... inquire of their advice... and then I make my decision.... Why? Not ONLY because of their role in my life spiritually, but my goodness, they have known me for close to 20 years! They have supported me in both spiritual and natural things.... I think it would be naturally (and spiritually) disrespectful for me to just get up and leave without letting them know what's going on....

 

[alexstin]

For me, I wouldn't necessarily say "approval" but how about "confirmation" or at least some kind of consultation with those whom a person has submitted to for spiritual guidance....

I'm thinking of those scriptures that say to seek wise counsel....

But at the end of it all, it is (should be) the individual's decision.... But some people take things too far (on both ends).... On one hand, the pastor has been idolized to such an extent that the power/control gets to their head; on the other hand, the people idolize the pastor so much that they won't make a move without the pastor's approval.... This is resulting in an ineffective Body.... a slowed Body... a retarded Body... but as we can see, the Lord is shaking some things to get the Body back in order....

Lauren450, I was kind of like that as well...but I've changed somewhat. I love and trust and respect my spiritual parents and I honor them just like I do my natural parents... so when I need to make a BIG LIFE DECISION (like when I had surgery or when I consider relocating, I inform them of what's going on... inquire of their advice... and then I make my decision.... Why? Not ONLY because of their role in my life spiritually, but my goodness, they have known me for close to 20 years! They have supported me in both spiritual and natural things.... I think it would be naturally (and spiritually) disrespectful for me to just get up and leave without letting them know what's going on....

I agree!!!

 

[Shimmie]

When my ex-husband passed away, I asked the Lord to give my son a "Barnabus"; one who would take him under his wing and mentor him in Jesus and relate to my son in the ways that I could not.

Where am I going with this. I wasn't asking for a 'father' but instead, a Mentor for my son with a Father's heart. And God did just that. God bought a Barnabus into my son's life and to this very day my son is still thriving upon the love and mentorship that he received in this relationship.

When Jesus spoke of this, He made it clear that none of the leaders there were honorable to earn the name of Father for they were not living the example that a father should. Indeed they were speaking the law but not doing/living the law.

To call one 'father' would put into action, the very words of God which clearly state that the sins of the Father will come upon the sons even unto the fourth generation.

Jesus was pointing out that the ony one worthy of being called father (spiritually) is God in Heaven and no other. Hence the Spirit of the Lord would be their covering and not that of prideful, sinful man.

Today, the term 'Spiritual Father and Mother" is just that a term and the persons using such are not really taking into account what the meaning truly is and what is acquired or manifested of one to be called such.

I'd be mindful of whom I call 'father' as I do not wish to have the sins of his generation to 'visit' me or mine. Thank God for Grace, for 'we' don't know all that entails one's life...much is hidden.

Hence Jesus said, only God in Heaven is our Father. :heart2:
---------------
I came back to fix my typos...

 

[alexstin]

When my ex-husband passed away, I asked the Lord to give my son a "Barnabus"; one who would take him under his wing and mentor him in Jesus and relate to my in the ways that I could not.

Where am I going with this. I wasn't asking for a 'father' but instead, a Mentor for my son with a Father's heart. And God did just that. God bought a Barnabus into my son's life and to this very day my son is still thriving upon the love and mentorship that he received in this relationship.

When Jesus spoke of this, He made it clear that none of the leaders there were honorable to earn the name of Father for their were not living the example that a father should. Indeed their were speaking the law but not doing the law.

To call one 'father' would put into action, the very words of God which clearly state that the sins of the Father will come upon the sons even unto the fourth generation.

Jesus was pointing out that the ony one worthy of being called father (spiritually) is God in Heaven and no other. Hence the Spirit of the Lord would be their covering and not that of prideful, sinful man.

Today, the term 'Spiritual Father and Mother" is just that a term and the persons using such are not really taking into account what the meaning truly is and what is acquired or manifested of one to be called such.

I'd be mindful of whom I call 'father' as I do not wish to have the sins of his generation to 'visit' me or mine. Thank God for Grace, for 'we' don't know all that entails one's life...much is hidden.

Hence Jesus said, only God in Heaven is our Father. :heart2:

I like this.

 

[PaperClip]

Shimmie, excellent points.... and as I was reading Shimmie's point about her son, this popped into my head: Joseph as Jesus' "father"....

I'm finishing up this report so I can get home expeditiously and get changed for church but I don't know if Joseph is called Jesus' father but there had to be significance in terms of it being necessary(?) or expedient for Jesus to come through a BETROTHED virgin, yes? Not only for the component of the marital relationship, but so that Jesus would have an tangible, earthly male figure/role model in His life, esp. in the early years....

Joseph taught Jesus carpentry, yes? Hmmm (thinking out loud).... So that could be considered a mentorship versus a fathership, huh?

In my mind, I had worked it out that the Lord God is my Heavenly Father "Our Father, who art in Heaven"....

My pastor is my spiritual dad

My natural father is my natural father....

And they have specific roles but the spiritual father and the natural father BOTH answer to the HEAVENLY FATHER, as do I....