SPECIAL REPORT:GREED, SCANDAL, HOMOSEXUALITY & AIDS IN THE BLACK CHURCH.

[Honey6928215]

I got this from another thread. With all the scandal with Haggard I thought I should post this. This article is very interesting. I don't know how recent but it did mention about Rev. Hornebuckle so I figure the article is not old. Read article below.


by Paris & Ashley

We have been informed that some black churches have ATM machines-and many of these churches request your W-2 form to determine how much you can give while other churches debit your checking account for monthly church donations.

People are also complaining that collection plates are being p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ed around at a record pace and the more you give, the closer you sit to the pulpit.

We have heard stories of ministers preying on young single women and embezzling church funds. These same ministers drive fancy cars and live in fancy mansions with their wives and children.

A church scandal broke earlier this year involving Bishop Terry Hornbuckle (based in Texas) who was convicted of drugging and raping three women (two of them former church members). By day, Hornbuckle lived in a $750,000 mansion with his wife, by night, he was a sexual predator who preyed on church women. Hornbuckle was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

Recently, a local news broadcast featured three women who had been sexually abused by their minister, from the ages of 13-15. The church elders knew of the abuse but chose to look the other way. Some parents offered up their daughters to this particular minister, 'Don't keep the prophet waiting.'

Last year, a police sting caught a high-ranking 'married' black deacon trying to solicit street prostitutes in Oakland. This was his second arrest for solicitation.

We now have gospel 'TV personalities' who dress more like pimps than men of the cloth. These same TV personalities (men and women) drive $250,000-$500,000 Maybach's/Rolls Royces and travel in private jets.

"The Gospel" has become big business, a multi-billion dollar business and crooks & con men are flocking to the church in record numbers.

In the bay area, a popular black church has bible study courses during the week and women are discouraged from attending. A male friend went to one of these courses. He said, 'It is nothing more than a meat rack for men seeking men.' That's the real reason they don't want women attending.' The bible study never took place because men were too busy trying to hook up with each other. The same men you see in church with their wives and children.' He added, 'The minister was even in attendance, trying to get his freak on! This is the same minister who condemns homosexuality from the pulpit.'

We have also heard rumors regarding some of the gospel workshops being held across the country-where people in the gospel community offer to mentor your child if they have musical talent. A incident occurred, when a mother became concerned about the attention a obviously gay man was giving her son. He had offered to mentor him and he had connections that would have helped her son's career but she p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ed on the opportunity because something just didn't seem right, especially when he began calling her underage son all hours of the night and sending him gifts, she cut off communication.

We were also informed that a well known gospel star was accused of sexual behavior with a underage boy-whose parents threatened to go to the authorities. The gospel star hurriedly paid them off and his family used their connections to cover up the incident.

In the past, we reported on a gospel icon who was allegedly a pedophile who died of AIDS. Again, church members and elders heard the rumors, but they chose ignore them because they worshipped this man.

Despite the fact that AIDS is ravaging black communities across this nation, the majority of black churches will not address this issue due to homophobic attitudes. Instead, they should be informing people of safe sex methods while p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ing out literature and pamphlets. Many black people say they have to go to the gay community to find out about support groups and other vital information.

Downlow behavior is not confined to men in the gospel community. I know of two black female gospel stars (well known), both located in California, who are having 'female affairs' on the side. Both women are married.

We are not implying or suggesting that all black churches are bad and that all black ministers are crooked and that gospel workshops are a breeding ground for seduction. This is a special report "focusing" on scandal, greed, AIDS and homosexuality in the black church.

READ MORE HERE :
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/culture/b...es/gospel.html

 

[cocoberry10]

What a disgrace. In the name of Jesus, and the blood He shed for our sins, I rebuke the filth that is tainting His holy name!

But isn't it a blessing how much of this deception is coming out? For in Galatians 6:7-10, God's word said

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

He also told us that what is in the dark will be in the light. I no longer worry about whether someone is correct, because God will reveal all things to us when it's time.

Also, God will continue to break us down and remold us as Christians (since no one is perfect). He has done this to me, and I'm sure He has done this to you. When something in my life is not "right," God's light cannot allow it to remain, for "lightness and darkness" cannot be together.

 

[Honey6928215]

What a disgrace. In the name of Jesus, and the blood He shed for our sins, I rebuke the filth that is tainting His holy name!

But isn't it a blessing how much of this deception is coming out? For in Galatians 6:7-10, God's word said

7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

He also told us that what is in the dark will be in the light. I no longer worry about whether someone is correct, because God will reveal all things to us when it's time.

Also, God will continue to break us down and remold us as Christians (since no one is perfect). He has done this to me, and I'm sure He has done this to you. When something in my life is not "right," God's light cannot allow it to remain, for "lightness and darkness" cannot be together.

It is a complete disgrace but I'm glad it's coming out. Like someone said at another website is the reason why all this is coming out is because God is cleaning house. If that's what's HE'S doing that AMEN TO THAT!

All of them need to be put on blast then maybe this will stop.

 

[star]

Very intresting!!!

 

[Lusa]

We have a saying in my language that says "When G_d returns He will begin His judgement in the church" because this is where we find some of the biggest hypocrites hiding behind His word but spreading the devil's work. What a shame.

We will be judged the toughest.

 

[Shimmie]

The church has always been an open door for all to come in. Many come in with these issues; some seeking deliverance and some seeking those whom they may devour.

All the more to take heed to the word, "Watch and Pray." Making intercessory prayer all the more needed before and during and after services, each day, through the night, through the week....Just all the time.

As Star says, "Very Interesting...." Meaning, it's no news...we know what's out there.

Star, we need your prayer post from Pastor Kimberly Daniels "Commander of the Morning Prayer", up front.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I got this from another thread. With all the scandal with Haggard I thought I should post this. This article is very interesting. I don't know how recent but it did mention about Rev. Hornebuckle so I figure the article is not old. Read article below.


by Paris & Ashley

We have been informed that some black churches have ATM machines-and many of these churches request your W-2 form to determine how much you can give while other churches debit your checking account for monthly church donations.

People are also complaining that collection plates are being p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ed around at a record pace and the more you give, the closer you sit to the pulpit.

We have heard stories of ministers preying on young single women and embezzling church funds. These same ministers drive fancy cars and live in fancy mansions with their wives and children.

A church scandal broke earlier this year involving Bishop Terry Hornbuckle (based in Texas) who was convicted of drugging and raping three women (two of them former church members). By day, Hornbuckle lived in a $750,000 mansion with his wife, by night, he was a sexual predator who preyed on church women. Hornbuckle was sentenced to 15 years in prison.

Recently, a local news broadcast featured three women who had been sexually abused by their minister, from the ages of 13-15. The church elders knew of the abuse but chose to look the other way. Some parents offered up their daughters to this particular minister, 'Don't keep the prophet waiting.'

Last year, a police sting caught a high-ranking 'married' black deacon trying to solicit street prostitutes in Oakland. This was his second arrest for solicitation.

We now have gospel 'TV personalities' who dress more like pimps than men of the cloth. These same TV personalities (men and women) drive $250,000-$500,000 Maybach's/Rolls Royces and travel in private jets.

"The Gospel" has become big business, a multi-billion dollar business and crooks & con men are flocking to the church in record numbers.

In the bay area, a popular black church has bible study courses during the week and women are discouraged from attending. A male friend went to one of these courses. He said, 'It is nothing more than a meat rack for men seeking men.' That's the real reason they don't want women attending.' The bible study never took place because men were too busy trying to hook up with each other. The same men you see in church with their wives and children.' He added, 'The minister was even in attendance, trying to get his freak on! This is the same minister who condemns homosexuality from the pulpit.'

We have also heard rumors regarding some of the gospel workshops being held across the country-where people in the gospel community offer to mentor your child if they have musical talent. A incident occurred, when a mother became concerned about the attention a obviously gay man was giving her son. He had offered to mentor him and he had connections that would have helped her son's career but she p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ed on the opportunity because something just didn't seem right, especially when he began calling her underage son all hours of the night and sending him gifts, she cut off communication.

We were also informed that a well known gospel star was accused of sexual behavior with a underage boy-whose parents threatened to go to the authorities. The gospel star hurriedly paid them off and his family used their connections to cover up the incident.

In the past, we reported on a gospel icon who was allegedly a pedophile who died of AIDS. Again, church members and elders heard the rumors, but they chose ignore them because they worshipped this man.

Despite the fact that AIDS is ravaging black communities across this nation, the majority of black churches will not address this issue due to homophobic attitudes. Instead, they should be informing people of safe sex methods while p*!@$%&**!@$%&**!@$%&*ing out literature and pamphlets. Many black people say they have to go to the gay community to find out about support groups and other vital information.

Downlow behavior is not confined to men in the gospel community. I know of two black female gospel stars (well known), both located in California, who are having 'female affairs' on the side. Both women are married.

We are not implying or suggesting that all black churches are bad and that all black ministers are crooked and that gospel workshops are a breeding ground for seduction. This is a special report "focusing" on scandal, greed, AIDS and homosexuality in the black church.

READ MORE HERE :
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/culture/b...es/gospel.html

I dunno. I dont know what this article is quite saying. What view it's coming from. I agree that churches must do more to hold their leaders accountable for their moral wrong doings. I just get some mixed messages from this. The entire article paints one view and then before you get an idea of things they make a small disclaimer at the end. There are no recommenmdations of how to improve.. just many heresay accusations. Lots of negative undertones. Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying there isnt truth it.. But it's cleverly deceptive to a degree. IMO

 

[Honey6928215]

We have a saying in my language that says "When G_d returns He will begin His judgement in the church" because this is where we find some of the biggest hypocrites hiding behind His word but spreading the devil's work. What a shame.

We will be judged the toughest.

Girl don't get me started about them hypocrites. Chile, I can write a book about them and then some. That's why I'm more guarded toward the people in church then I am to everyday people. I have been burned by a couple of them 'Chrisitians.' Not saying all of them are bad but you don't know their true intentions until it's too late.

 

[Honey6928215]

I dunno. I dont know what this article is quite saying. What view it's coming from. I agree that churches must do more to hold their leaders accountable for their moral wrong doings. I just got some mixed messages from this. The entire article paints one view and then beforee you get that idea of things they make a small disclaimer at the end. There are no recommenmdations of how to improve.. just alot of accusations. Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying there isnt truth it.. But it's cleverly deceptive to a degree.

Hey BlkManWithSomeSense,

Where have you been hiding? I agree with your statement. We all know it's a problem but the question is what should we do about it?

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

Hey BlkManWithSomeSense,

Where have you been hiding? I agree with your statement. We all know it's a problem but the question is what should we do about it?

Hey Honey. How are you. I've been around here. Just picking my opinions...LOL
But as far as the topic...Exactly! Thats what I was thinking. There are no suggestons on how to improve, just examples where the church 'failed' to maintain order and rule. It's like saying " While you are beholden to your so called 'faith', people are dying right under your nose and you're not doing anything about it because you're too selfish to think about anything but yourselves." Defiinately some biterness there.

Sexual improprieties have always been a sensitive issue to address in the church. You lose more if you steamroll through the masses, forsaking privacy. It would resemble the salem witch trials. Yes there is speculation behind the scenes, when you see two people buddy-buddy up with each other but you cant necessarily say " AH HA !" Uness the proof is unequivical, there isnt much can be done unless they ask for help and rebuke their doings.

 

[*Frisky*]

I dunno. I dont know what this article is quite saying. What view it's coming from. I agree that churches must do more to hold their leaders accountable for their moral wrong doings. I just get some mixed messages from this. The entire article paints one view and then before you get an idea of things they make a small disclaimer at the end. There are no recommenmdations of how to improve.. just many heresay accusations. Lots of negative undertones. Dont get me wrong. I'm not saying there isnt truth it.. But it's cleverly deceptive to a degree. IMO

I honestly think this problem is so widely spread out and so over whelming that it might be uncontrollable. I mean seriously, what can be done about this? It is everywhere. One problem is that people just don't believe it is happening....I would love to hear some suggestions from people. I know people shouldn't react on hearsay but if you keep hearing the same stuff over and over again, there has to be some truth to it somewhere.

 

[Shimmie]

Exactly! Thats what I was thinking. There are no suggestons on how to improve, just examples where the church 'failed' to maintain order and rule. It's like saying " While you are beholden to your so called 'faith', people are dying right under your nose and you're not doing anything about it because you're too selfish to think about anything but yourselves." Defiinately some biterness there.

I think somebody got 'burnt'

But the real thing is that none of this is really news.

There's a movie classic, "Halleilulia (sp?) Well, it's 'Drama' (scandal). And for some reason, this movie is classified as a 'Classic". Why? Because of all of the negativity in it? And when you think about it, most of the movies that EVER depicted a "Black Church" have some degree of scandal or a spot of upon it.

What am I saying? ....'I don't know' (I guess I'm a little bothered by reason behind the article (the writer, not our OP).

Okay, headlines like this draw attention. Another 'scent of blood in the waters,' but this blood is not drawing in the sharks. Instead, those who want to see bleeding and bruising in the Black Community of Believers. Ones who do not want to see the Black Church prevail.

Can anything good come out of 'Darkness'? Yes......us!

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I honestly think this problem is so widely spread out and so over whelming that it might be uncontrollable. I mean seriously, what can be done about this? It is everywhere. One problem is that people just don't believe it is happening....I would love to hear some suggestions from people. I know people shouldn't react on hearsay but if you keep hearing the same stuff over and over again, there has to be some truth to it somewhere.

IMO, it's not AIDS thats being given a deaf ear, it's the behavior behind the disease. Many members are in outright defiance of the word by engaging in homosexual activity. They KNOW they cannot openly involve themselves because they will never receive support for it and so rather than rebuke, they would rather indulge 'under the radar' and throw a bitter spotlight on the integrity of our leaders in the ministry, to imply that those we follow are no better than those we exclude. They regard the church as cold or insensitive because it will not edit it's 'interpretations' to embrace homosexuality. It is not a matter of interpretating a thee for thou , It is in the word, regardless of version that man shall not lie with man.

They sing in the choir. They play in the band. They lead bible classes. All this community service and they feel the least we can do is make an exception.

I dont know what can be done. I feel there is little effort to live right, and instead settling to say " well da lawd knows whats in mah heart " It's amazing to me that after the bible's 2000 years of existance, we've reached a generation that feels it shoud be updated to fit with the times , rather than accept the word the way it's always been.

 

[pebbles]

IMO, it's not AIDS thats being given a deaf ear, it's the behavior behind the disease. Many members are in outright defiance of the word by engaging in homosexual activity. They KNOW they cannot openly involve themselves because they will never receive support for it and so rather than rebuke, they would rather indulge 'under the radar' and throw a bitter spotlight on the integrity of our leaders in the ministry, to imply that those we follow are no better than those we exclude. They regard the church as cold or insensitive because it will not edit it's 'interpretations' to embrace homosexuality. It is not a matter of interpretating a thee for thou , It is in the word, regardless of version that man shall not lie with man.

They sing in the choir. They play in the band. They lead bible classes. All this community service and they feel the least we can do is make an exception.

I dont know what can be done. I feel there is little effort to live right, and instead settling to say " well da lawd knows whats in mah heart " It's amazing to me that after the bible's 2000 years of existance, we've reached a generation that feels it shoud be updated to fit with the times , rather than accept the word the way it's always been.

Boy, I don't know where Enchantmnt found you, but high five to her for bringing you here!!

I felt like highlighting your entire post! LOL! I'm in total agreement with you!

 

[Honey6928215]

We all know that the truth is coming out about these 'pimps in the pulpit.' Some of us are wondering what's going on. I say that everything that's done in the dark will come to the light and as we all can see even the man of the cloth is not immune.

What boils down to it is this....and this is my opinion:

When people are down-trodden, depressed and desperate they tend turn to the Lord. But often times they seek the pastor. So they become vunerable in his eys and the ones that are in charge are aware of it and take advantage of it. Even spiritually-broken people . But remember this, and I began to realize it, a large majority of church members (NOT SPEAKING OF ALL CHURCH MEMBERS!!) are X's: ex-offenders, ex-alcoholics, ex-rapists/molestors, ex-whoremongers, and as far as we know we could be sitting next to an ex-murderer.

There are black men who believes that being a pastor is the best thing going because the way it's set up (like a business/corporation) that's the only way they can be the HNIC. Therefore they feel that no one can question their actions or motives.

We have to remember NOT to put trust in man. I have been told this by my mother and grandmother since I was a child. Now all of it is coming together. I'm sure all of you can say the same.

 

[cocoberry10]

IMO, it's not AIDS thats being given a deaf ear, it's the behavior behind the disease. Many members are in outright defiance of the word by engaging in homosexual activity. They KNOW they cannot openly involve themselves because they will never receive support for it and so rather than rebuke, they would rather indulge 'under the radar' and throw a bitter spotlight on the integrity of our leaders in the ministry, to imply that those we follow are no better than those we exclude. They regard the church as cold or insensitive because it will not edit it's 'interpretations' to embrace homosexuality. It is not a matter of interpretating a thee for thou , It is in the word, regardless of version that man shall not lie with man.

They sing in the choir. They play in the band. They lead bible classes. All this community service and they feel the least we can do is make an exception.

I dont know what can be done. I feel there is little effort to live right, and instead settling to say " well da lawd knows whats in mah heart " It's amazing to me that after the bible's 2000 years of existance, we've reached a generation that feels it shoud be updated to fit with the times , rather than accept the word the way it's always been.

I do think the church is running from the AIDS issue, but it's not just because of homosexuality. I don't believe that most Blacks (especially Black men) are homosexual, and we have to acknowledge that this disease is being spread among HETEROSEXUAL couples who have only engaged in HETEROSEXUAL sex. A lot of women and men have contracted the disease because of poor decisions.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I do think the church is running from the AIDS issue, but it's not just because of homosexuality. I don't believe that most Blacks (especially Black men) are homosexual, and we have to acknowledge that this disease is being spread among HETEROSEXUAL couples who have only engaged in HETEROSEXUAL sex. A lot of women and men have contracted the disease because of poor decisions.

What should the church do? If you're having sex outside marriage, you're fronticating. If you're married and He/ She brings AIDS home, they cheated. The church has never been in short supply of prayer, workshops and conferences. Why put the blame on the church for our own actions? Theorectically speaking if all christians followed the word appropriately, we should all be living long productive healthy lives.

AIDS is real and growing. How should we be ministered to about this tragic disease and keep in line with our own beliefs? Are you expecting pastors to say during sunday service" wear a condom" or " get a aids test if you're going to have sex'. It's placing the church in an awkward position. A place I feel it does not belong.

 

[Sweet C]

Boy, I don't know where Enchantmnt found you, but high five to her for bringing you here!!

I felt like highlighting your entire post! LOL! I'm in total agreement with you!

I agree! The man is on point!

Just to piggyback off what he said, the article is a bit suspect b/c of how the issue is being presented. It is painting a picture that pastors of large congregations and gospel artists are the ones who really have these problems and instead of sticking to the facts, they are presenting rumors and hearsay as gospel truth.

And to be honest the purpose of the church is not to clue you in on every social, political, economic issue of this age. That is something churches do as an extra. The primary purpose is to preach the gospel and to teach you how to live according to the Word of God. And if you do have an issue be it AIDS, money, or whatever, it is your responsibility to seek out help (you have not b/c you ask not).

For example, If you became unemployed today, it would not take you long to figure out that you need to file for unemployment, b/c as soon as you realized that your next check is your last, you would be searching to find what you needed to do next. However when a lot of people come to church, they expect people to know exactly what they are going through, and then tell people that the church didn't help them, when they really did not ask for it or they get upset b/c they didn't get what they thought they should have received.

 

[Shimmie]

Boy, I don't know where Enchantmnt found you, but high five to her for bringing you here!!

I felt like highlighting your entire post! LOL! I'm in total agreement with you!

He needs to be in the White House...

No really. Why are ones such as our forum brother BlkManWSS, hidden when he should be up front and being the light that men need to follow.

Not upon a pedestal mind you, that would be unfair and untrue; and he'd tilt towards a fall. But haven't we had enough of Superfly and John Shaft and Mutha F, this and F that and the sick thinking that to be a man, you have to be a Black fool !?!

Where are the examples for our men to follow? Martin Luther King, God bless him, I appreciate him but he cheated on his wife. Malcolm X -- powerful, but on the 'wrong team' , he wasn't 'Team Jesus.' Jessie Jackson and Sharpton (sp?) are full of mess. I do not respect them.

Can I just say this? Why do the White men still show us out? Bear with me. The only men who have ever shown me respect outside of my dad, and other family men, were and are White men. My ex-husband blew it. And the few men I dated afterwards, blew it. My first Church as an adult...a Black Pastor, blew it and many of the men who followed him.

This hurts me. I don't want to be in love with a White man because I've lost faith in Black men.

I have a book in my spirit that I want to write so badly, "The Measure of a Man...The Right Calibrations." What man Black, can I measure?

This brother here on our forum has blessed me because I stopped hating Black men. God placed him here for me to be set free. Because I saw a light from Heaven and God said, the devil lied and this is my proof with more of them to follow. Our brother BlkManWSS is the first Black man that I have come to 'respect' and it was not easy for me in my state of heart.

I'm sorry if I'm embarrassing our Brother for calling him out, but it's a terrible thing to have a hatred in your heart for what is a part of you.

Black men are a part of me and I will not marry a White man and place him above my brothers who have yet to be proven 'not all are guilty'.

Most of you here, think Shimmie is full of love for everyone. But I wasn't. I'm exposing the truth to you about my heart and what has been living inside of it. God says we are to forgive and because of our Brother here, I'm on that path to do so. I cannot live life hating who I am and being what I am not. I want to stand before God and say, I forgave them with all of my heart.

So, BlkManWithSomeSense, be it known to all that read. I have been in sin, hating all men of our color. I tried to hide it. I apologize to you and yet, know that God is using you to set me free and to Him I am yielded. Thank you for being here. Be the leader God has called you to be. My prayers will always cover you.

I'm sorry ladies to you as well. Because I've prayed for a white man quicker than a brother and these are your men I should have been praying for.

With all my heart...

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

He needs to be in the White House...

No really. Why are ones such as our forum brother BlkManWSS, hidden when he should be up front and being the light that men need to follow.

Not upon a pedestal mind you, that would be unfair and untrue; and he'd tilt towards a fall. But haven't we had enough of Superfly and John Shaft and Mutha F, this and F that and the sick thinking that to be a man, you have to be a Black fool !?!

Where are the examples for our men to follow? Martin Luther King, God bless him, I appreciate him but he cheated on his wife. Malcolm X -- powerful, but on the 'wrong team' , he wasn't 'Team Jesus.' Jessie Jackson and Sharpton (sp?) are full of mess. I do not respect them.

Can I just say this? Why do the White men still show us out? Bear with me. The only men who have ever shown me respect outside of my dad, and other family men, were and are White men. My ex-husband blew it. And the few men I dated afterwards, blew it. My first Church as an adult...a Black Pastor, blew it and many of the men who followed him.

This hurts me. I don't want to be in love with a White man because I've lost faith in Black men.

I have a book in my spirit that I want to write so badly, "The Measure of a Man...The Right Calibrations." What man Black, can I measure?

This brother here on our forum has blessed me because I stopped hating Black men. God placed him here for me to be set free. Because I saw a light from Heaven and God said, the devil lied and this is my proof with more of them to follow. Our brother BlkManWSS is the first Black man that I have come to 'respect' and it was not easy for me in my state of heart.

I'm sorry if I'm embarrassing our Brother for calling him out, but it's a terrible thing to have a hatred in your heart for what is a part of you.

Black men are a part of me and I will not marry a White man and place him above my brothers who have yet to be proven 'not all are guilty'.

Most of you here, think Shimmie is full of love for everyone. But I wasn't. I'm exposing the truth to you about my heart and what has been living inside of it. God says we are to forgive and because of our Brother here, I'm on that path to do so. I cannot live life hating who I am and being what I am not. I want to stand before God and say, I forgave them with all of my heart.

So, BlkManWithSomeSense, be it known to all that read. I have been in sin, hating all men of our color. I tried to hide it. I apologize to you and yet, know that God is using you to set me free and to Him I am yielded. Thank you for being here. Be the leader God has called you to be. My prayers will always cover you.

I'm sorry ladies to you as well. Because I've prayed for a white man quicker than a brother and these are your men I should have been praying for.

With all my heart...

Shimmie,

When I first became a member of the board, there were a considerate amount of 'resistance' to my being here. Your posts always kept me around when I thought I had wore out my welcome. I am humbled by your testimony and most thankful. Your profoundness has inspired me on my own path to living a a better righeous life. You are my guidence of light.

Whew..You're gonna make a brotha choke up here.

For you Shimmie .. with all of my heart

 

[pebbles]

He needs to be in the White House...

No really. Why are ones such as our forum brother BlkManWSS, hidden when he should be up front and being the light that men need to follow.

Not upon a pedestal mind you, that would be unfair and untrue; and he'd tilt towards a fall. But haven't we had enough of Superfly and John Shaft and Mutha F, this and F that and the sick thinking that to be a man, you have to be a Black fool !?!

Where are the examples for our men to follow? Martin Luther King, God bless him, I appreciate him but he cheated on his wife. Malcolm X -- powerful, but on the 'wrong team' , he wasn't 'Team Jesus.' Jessie Jackson and Sharpton (sp?) are full of mess. I do not respect them.

Can I just say this? Why do the White men still show us out? Bear with me. The only men who have ever shown me respect outside of my dad, and other family men, were and are White men. My ex-husband blew it. And the few men I dated afterwards, blew it. My first Church as an adult...a Black Pastor, blew it and many of the men who followed him.

This hurts me. I don't want to be in love with a White man because I've lost faith in Black men.

I have a book in my spirit that I want to write so badly, "The Measure of a Man...The Right Calibrations." What man Black, can I measure?

This brother here on our forum has blessed me because I stopped hating Black men. God placed him here for me to be set free. Because I saw a light from Heaven and God said, the devil lied and this is my proof with more of them to follow. Our brother BlkManWSS is the first Black man that I have come to 'respect' and it was not easy for me in my state of heart.

I'm sorry if I'm embarrassing our Brother for calling him out, but it's a terrible thing to have a hatred in your heart for what is a part of you.

Black men are a part of me and I will not marry a White man and place him above my brothers who have yet to be proven 'not all are guilty'.

Most of you here, think Shimmie is full of love for everyone. But I wasn't. I'm exposing the truth to you about my heart and what has been living inside of it. God says we are to forgive and because of our Brother here, I'm on that path to do so. I cannot live life hating who I am and being what I am not. I want to stand before God and say, I forgave them with all of my heart.

So, BlkManWithSomeSense, be it known to all that read. I have been in sin, hating all men of our color. I tried to hide it. I apologize to you and yet, know that God is using you to set me free and to Him I am yielded. Thank you for being here. Be the leader God has called you to be. My prayers will always cover you.

I'm sorry ladies to you as well. Because I've prayed for a white man quicker than a brother and these are your men I should have been praying for.

With all my heart...

How very profound and true!! God bless you, Shimmie!! :Rose:

 

[cocoberry10]

What should the church do? If you're having sex outside marriage, you're fronticating. If you're married and He/ She brings AIDS home, they cheated. The church has never been in short supply of prayer, workshops and conferences. Why put the blame on the church for our own actions? Theorectically speaking if all christians followed the word appropriately, we should all be living long productive healthy lives.

AIDS is real and growing. How should we be ministered to about this tragic disease and keep in line with our own beliefs? Are you expecting pastors to say during sunday service" wear a condom" or " get a aids test if you're going to have sex'. It's placing the church in an awkward position. A place I feel it does not belong.

I totally agree with you, especially the bolded part. I don't blame the church if people knowingly choose to ignore to do that which they know is right. However, I personally believe the church does sweep certain issues under the rug (like those discussed in the article).

I can imagine it would be difficult to deliver sermon after sermon on the sinfulness of cheating, if you were a pastor cheating on your wife.

As a Christian and a young woman of our time, I do try to follow the will of God (I don't fornicate, etc.). However, even after I marry, I still know that I have to be intelligent. Even Christian men and women cheat. We have to be more honest about the reality that many Christians are doing all of the things that everyone in the world is doing. I do think the Church could be better about telling people to protect themselves. That is very much in line with Proverbs, IMO.

 

[pebbles]

Shimmie,

When I first became a member of the board, there were a considerate amount of 'resistance' to my being here. Your posts always kept me around when I thought I had wore out my welcome. I am humbled by your testimony and most thankful. Your profoundness has inspired me on my own path to living a a better righeous life. You are my guidence of light.

Whew..You're gonna make a brotha choke up here.

For you Shimmie .. with all of my heart

Let me tell you, I first spoke to Shimmie after a tremendous amount of conflict concerning her posts on the forums. People felt she would take over threads, so I told Beverly I would ask Shimmie for her number and speak to her myself.

I didn't expect what I got when I called Shimmie. Here I was anxious that she would be upset at me for calling her and asking her to do what I had no right to ask her, and she ended up putting me at ease and making me laugh.

My goodness, I was amazed, and so humbled by her graciousness. We spoke for well over an hour during our first conversation. Now, here I was thinking my walk with God was pretty good. But after speaking with Shimmie, I realized I needed to step up my game considerably! I said to myself, "self, this is how it's really done! Get to working on it!!"

I wish I could take Shimmie and stick her into my purse, and keep her all to myself! LOL! Really. She's that wonderful. I'm humbled by her friendship.

I'm saying all this just to back up what you're saying about Shimmie. She is a true gem, like no other. I may not ever meet her in this life, but as sure as I'm typing this, when Jesus comes to rapture us, I'll be searching her out to give her a great big hug and kiss for sustaining me with her prayers, and for loving me, just as I am. Be blessed, Blkmanwithsomesense. You really do deserve to be recognized for the intelligent, thoughtful, and godly man that you are. :Rose:

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie,

When I first became a member of the board, there were a considerate amount of 'resistance' to my being here. Your posts always kept me around when I thought I had wore out my welcome. I am humbled by your testimony and most thankful. Your profoundness has inspired me on my own path to living a a better righeous life. You are my guidence of light.

Whew..You're gonna make a brotha choke up here.

For you Shimmie .. with all of my heart

Well, I'm choking up right along with you.

I was in bondage and I wouldn't see it for what it was. God knew...and he sent you. And you were the first Black man that I came to the 'rescue' ...Pebbles can tell you.

At first I was 'testing' you. Yes, I was. I wanted too see if you were real. And though my topics were all sincere, I wanted to know what a 'real' man had to say about such things in life. You allowed me to pull at your shirt tail at any given time and you always showed up like a champ.

All I ever wanted to do was to 'believe' that someone like me in Black/Brown human form -- in the form of a man which could ever be above the White house. (meaning white superiors). (Edited for typos)

It was the 'scent of blood' in the waters that broke me..."Shark Attack". You weren't the victim, I was. For if the enemy could keep me 'hating' me, my prayers would be forever hindered to propel men such as yourself forward and up as God has so ordained.

There's power in forgiveness for it empowers our prayers all the more.

One drop of blood upon the waters is all it took to break through the walls of my heart.

Lead ... precious brother. In your writings, lead. That's your call...to lead with the pen and the heart of a 'ready writer.' Men need you and we need you, so please don't ever feel uncovered in loving prayers....we have your back.

Whatever God gives me to pray for you or a word to cover you, I will abide...I will yield. Not grudingly, but honored.

I've learned a great lesson because of whom you chose to be.

Lead....you will not fall. I promise. More so, God promises.

Sweet one... lead.

 

[Shimmie]

The Black Church needs serious healing and it begins with respecting who we are and not giving up on each other. Or does it? We cannot blame satan for everything that's not right.

Jesus said,

Matt 6:21

For where your TREASURE is, there will your heart be also.

Where are we in this? What we value, we take good care of...our hearts are there.

With each other, do we really treasure who we are and what we become? We protect what we treasure. Do we really treasure the Black Church?

If so, why is it falling?

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

I totally agree with you, especially the bolded part. I don't blame the church if people knowingly choose to ignore to do that which they know is right. However, I personally believe the church does sweep certain issues under the rug (like those discussed in the article).

I can imagine it would be difficult to deliver sermon after sermon on the sinfulness of cheating, if you were a pastor cheating on your wife.

As a Christian and a young woman of our time, I do try to follow the will of God (I don't fornicate, etc.). However, even after I marry, I still know that I have to be intelligent. Even Christian men and women cheat. We have to be more honest about the reality that many Christians are doing all of the things that everyone in the world is doing. I do think the Church could be better about telling people to protect themselves. That is very much in line with Proverbs, IMO.

I think the church is very knowledgable about the realties of the world. Some people feel the church is 'out of touch' because the church seems to not 'care' about the ills of the world but thats a misconception. Some would like the word to conform to their indiscretions. The church cannot afford to compromise itself by preaching safe sex and telling folks to abstain. They would appear double tongued.

What bothers me is that those who wish to see the kingdom of God destoyed no longer do this from outside, by temptation, but from inside mouthing God's word yet manipulating it's influence, creating doubt and confusion, able to quote just as much about the bible as you or I. So much of life is loopholed and split haired that some youths feel the church should be the same. They are sadly mistaken. God's word is final and absolute and not up for bargaining. A walk to Christ should resemble someone dropping their bags and walking freely into the light. For some, it resembles packing for summer camp and THEN a walk into the light.

*We must watch our life and doctrine closely (1 Timothy 4:16)
*We must hide God's Word in our hearts (Psalm 119:11).
*We must study His Word diligently, being workman that correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).
*We must test the spirits to be sure they are from God (1 John 4:1).
*We know that holy Scripture is able to make us wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Timothy 3:15),
we cannot afford to be negligent in these matters, but give ourselves wholly to them lest we be deceived by false salt.

The reality out there is that they dont want to adhere to the word of God. Christians know they serve a God who has wiped out thousands and millions in one swoop to cleanse and preserve his will.

 

[Shimmie]

I think the church is very knowledgable about the realties of the world. Some people feel the church is 'out of touch' because the church seems to not 'care' about the ills of the world but thats a misconception. Some would like the word to conform to their indiscretions. The church cannot afford to compromise itself by preaching safe sex and telling folks to abstain. They would appear double tongued.

What bothers me is that those who wish to see the kingdom of God destoyed no longer do this from outside, by temptation, but from inside mouthing God's word yet manipulating it's influence, creating doubt and confusion, able to quote just as much about the bible as you or I. So much of life is loopholed and split haired that some youths feel the church should be the same. They are sadly mistaken. God's word is final and absolute and not up for bargaining. A walk to Christ should resemble someone dropping their bags and walking freely into the light. For some, it resembles packing for summer camp and THEN a walk into the light.

*We must watch our life and doctrine closely (1 Timothy 4:16)
*We must hide God's Word in our hearts (Psalm 119:11).
*We must study His Word diligently, being workman that correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).
*We must test the spirits to be sure they are from God (1 John 4:1).
*We know that holy Scripture is able to make us wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Timothy 3:15),
we cannot afford to be negligent in these matters, but give ourselves wholly to them lest we be deceived by false salt.

The reality out there is that they dont want to adhere to the word of God. Christians know they serve a God who has wiped out thousands and millions in one swoop to cleanse and preserve his will.

So many battles are here. Which ones do we choose over the other?

I've taken these words of wisdom to heart..."Choose your battles." I love this principle. It's more than profound, it's just plain sense.

Should the Church utilize this same principle of wisdom?

I ask because it appears that we over-preach in some areas and under-teach in others. Is there a balance? Do we actually chose our battles here as we would in personal relationships?

Shirt tail Question (seeking your advise): As a Pastor, what would be your 'battle choice'? Righteousness most definitely, God's Principles without a doubt. But what would be your 'burden' as a Pastor or in other areas of ministry?

I'm asking as one yielded in all respect and humility...not as a challenge.

 

[cocoberry10]

I think the church is very knowledgable about the realties of the world. Some people feel the church is 'out of touch' because the church seems to not 'care' about the ills of the world but thats a misconception. Some would like the word to conform to their indiscretions. The church cannot afford to compromise itself by preaching safe sex and telling folks to abstain. They would appear double tongued.

What bothers me is that those who wish to see the kingdom of God destoyed no longer do this from outside, by temptation, but from inside mouthing God's word yet manipulating it's influence, creating doubt and confusion, able to quote just as much about the bible as you or I. So much of life is loopholed and split haired that some youths feel the church should be the same. They are sadly mistaken. God's word is final and absolute and not up for bargaining. A walk to Christ should resemble someone dropping their bags and walking freely into the light. For some, it resembles packing for summer camp and THEN a walk into the light.

*We must watch our life and doctrine closely (1 Timothy 4:16)
*We must hide God's Word in our hearts (Psalm 119:11).
*We must study His Word diligently, being workman that correctly handle the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).
*We must test the spirits to be sure they are from God (1 John 4:1).
*We know that holy Scripture is able to make us wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Timothy 3:15),
we cannot afford to be negligent in these matters, but give ourselves wholly to them lest we be deceived by false salt.

The reality out there is that they dont want to adhere to the word of God. Christians know they serve a God who has wiped out thousands and millions in one swoop to cleanse and preserve his will.

Well spoken, and I agree with everything you said. It's so sad to me when women or men followed the Lord and remained chaste until marriage, and then have to deal with the consequences of a spouse who cheated and brought home an STD (not just AIDS, but others). Of course that person was correct for following the Lord, and knowing that we live in a fallen world, even those that follow God will deal with that. However, we know that God is always good and will bring us through any situation.

 

[Shimmie]

Well spoken, and I agree with everything you said.

It's so sad to me when women or men followed the Lord and remained chaste until marriage, and then have to deal with the consequences of a spouse who cheated and brought home an STD (not just AIDS, but others).

Of course that person was correct for following the Lord, and knowing that we live in a fallen world, even those that follow God will deal with that. However, we know that God is always good and will bring us through any situation.

"Sweet Coco", it is sad indeed (the bolded part of your post). I've known it to happen to other people. The thing is, the devil is using this 'occurance' to justify 'testing' the waters or sampling the delicacies of love before committing to marriage. Before any involvment we still have to ask God to remove all 'counterfeits' from our path.

Is this the man or woman for me to marry? For we can't allow our feelings to get the better of us, let alone our flesh. It breaks my heart with thread after thread of heart broken women who have fallen in love before 'asking' the Lord, is this the one?

I will never regret my choice to have remained celibate for so long. People still joke and laugh (especially my sister), but I do not care.

"Coco" I cherish the moment when I can stand before my husband, look up into his eyes and whisper, "...in all this time that I've waited and in all this time you've searched, there's been no one before you, my husband. No one before you...not even 'me.'

Sweet Coco, you are so right; even in dire situations, God is always good. And He is faithful that promised and always will be. I pray for every marriage that has had this challenge; for God's mercy to prevail and the enemy's plan to destroy, shall fail. In Jesus' name, Amen.

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

So many battles are here. Which ones do we choose over the other?

I've taken these words of wisdom to heart..."Choose your battles." I love this principle. It's more than profound, it's just plain sense.

Should the Church utilize this same principle of wisdom?

I ask because it appears that we over-preach in some areas and under-teach in others. Is there a balance? Do we actually chose our battles here as we would in personal relationships?

Shirt tail Question (seeking your advise): As a Pastor, what would be your 'battle choice'? Righteousness most definitely, God's Principles without a doubt. But what would be your 'burden' as a Pastor or in other areas of ministry?

I'm asking as one yielded in all respect and humility...not as a challenge.

The balance is subjective. There are some who will always feel the church does enough in some areas and not enough in others. It is in an even more precarious position because critisism comes swiftly when mis steps are made but support trickles in cautiously. An oft troddened pastor should not undo the dillegence and sincerity of the congregation. We must remember that although we preach, teach and worship together, at the end of each day we choose our own actions.