Something that's been bothering me at my church

[chellero]

Every year around the holidays my church gives out extra food to needy for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well anyone can come into the soup kitchen and get a meal, but people can sign up to have about two weeks worth of groceries delivered around the holidays. Well my pastor announced last year that he will not be giving groceries to people who were shacked up because they are living in sin. This bothers me for a lot of reasons. First of most of these people have children who shouldn't have to suffer more because their parents are poor and not married. Secondly who are we to decide that those hungry people are less deserving then drug addicts or lazy people who won't work, or people who are having sex but aren't living with their partners? I feel as if we are supposed to feed hungry people. Not just the people whose lifestyles we approve of.


This is really bothering me. Should I say something to the pastor about it or just let it go?

 

[envybeauty]

Every year around the holidays my church gives out extra food to needy for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well anyone can come into the soup kitchen and get a meal, but people can sign up to have about two weeks worth of groceries delivered around the holidays. Well my pastor announced last year that he will not be giving groceries to people who were shacked up because they are living in sin. This bothers me for a lot of reasons. First of most of these people have children who shouldn't have to suffer more because their parents are poor and not married. Secondly who are we to decide that those hungry people are less deserving then drug addicts or lazy people who won't work, or people who are having sex but aren't living with their partners? I feel as if we are supposed to feed hungry people. Not just the people whose lifestyles we approve of.


This is really bothering me. Should I say something to the pastor about it or just let it go?

I have mixed feelings about this.

Sometimes, I feel like you do -- that everyone deserves the same amount of love and that really everyone sins but some sins are more visible than others.

Then again, I feel that this unconditional love has not changed people. In fact, it encourages them to sin even more because they see no consequences to their actions.

Tough call.

 

[Coffee]

Anything that separates us from God is sin. As humans we sometimes think there are small sins and big sins.....not true. We are not to judge, lest we be judged. It would bother me too! Not one of us is perfect, there is only one perfect one...Jesus!

Blessings,
Coffee

 

[tffy2004]

Anything that separates us from God is sin. As humans we sometimes think there are small sins and big sins.....not true. We are not to judge, lest we be judged. It would bother me too! Not one of us is perfect, there is only one perfect one...Jesus!

Blessings,
Coffee

Coffee,
I agree with you totally that Sin is Sin none is big or small. Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." But verse 2 follows with "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you."

This does not mean that you should not have opinions and render decisions about certain actions. This kind of judging means condemning. We, as human beings, are never in a position to condemn anyone.

Chellero,
Since what your pastor has decided to do bothers you, I think you are right in going to him and talking to him about it. John 7:24 says "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." From what you have posted it seems that your pastor is doing something special at the time of the holidays for those that are homeless and poor and not shaking up. I don't know if he thinks that by excluding the 'shacker-uppers' he is doing the right thing in God's eyes but only God knows his heart. As for the children in those situations God will surely take care of them.

What I think he should do instead is do as he usually does throughout the year and have the open kitchen but set aside time to gather the shacker-uppers and explain to them what the Bible teaches on it, that way they have some knowledge of what the Bible teaches on their situation, but they don't feel left out of special privileges just because of their sinful lifestyle. I think he should treat them all the same.

2 Thessalonians 3 talks about those who are lazy. There is a version of the bible out there called The Message and it puts the bible in plain text so that no one misunderstands it. Here is what it says about the lazy in The Message:
1 -3One more thing, friends: Pray for us. Pray that the Master's Word will simply take off and race through the country to a ground-swell of response, just as it did among you. And pray that we'll be rescued from these scoundrels who are trying to do us in. I'm finding that not all "believers" are believers. But the Master never lets us down. He'll stick by you and protect you from evil. 4 -5Because of the Master, we have great confidence in you. We know you're doing everything we told you and will continue doing it. May the Master take you by the hand and lead you along the path of God's love and Christ's endurance.
6 -9Our orders—backed up by the Master, Jesus—are to refuse to have anything to do with those among you who are lazy and refuse to work the way we taught you. Don't permit them to freeload on the rest. We showed you how to pull your weight when we were with you, so get on with it. We didn't sit around on our hands expecting others to take care of us. In fact, we worked our fingers to the bone, up half the night moonlighting so you wouldn't be burdened with taking care of us. And it wasn't because we didn't have a right to your support; we did. We simply wanted to provide an example of diligence, hoping it would prove contagious.
10 -13Don't you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? "If you don't work, you don't eat." And now we're getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don't slack off in doing your duty.
14 -15If anyone refuses to obey our clear command written in this letter, don't let him get by with it. Point out such a person and refuse to subsidize his freeloading. Maybe then he'll think twice. But don't treat him as an enemy. Sit him down and talk about the problem as someone who cares.
16May the Master of Peace himself give you the gift of getting along with each other at all times, in all ways. May the Master be truly among you!
17I, Paul, bid you good-bye in my own handwriting. I do this in all my letters, so examine my signature as proof that the letter is genuine.
18The incredible grace of our Master, Jesus Christ, be with all of you!

 

[MizzBrown]

Ooooh, that makes me kind of upset too. Because if you judge one, then why not judge them all??

What about the single mother of 3 kids out of wedlock. Does she get to eat? The teenager who just stole $50 from his momma and has yet to say so about it? What about the married couples who cheat on their taxes or are cheating on their spouse? Why didn't he include them? And about 95% of the congregation is living subconsciously or purposely in sin so if you want to be PC about it, not too many folks should be eating.

Maybe you send him a letter anonymously or something because some pastors are arrogant and they think their word is God. Did anyone else in the church look at him funny or make comments when he made that announcement? Maybe a lot of people are thinking JUST like you but don't know who/where to voice their concerns about it.

Where's this church located? Shoot, I'LL write the letter. Might show up in his office myself....

 

[tffy2004]

Ooooh, that makes me kind of upset too. Because if you judge one, then why not judge them all??

What about the single mother of 3 kids out of wedlock. Does she get to eat? The teenager who just stole $50 from his momma and has yet to say so about it? What about the married couples who cheat on their taxes or are cheating on their spouse? Why didn't he include them? And about 95% of the congregation is living subconsciously or purposely in sin so if you want to be PC about it, not too many folks should be eating.

Maybe you send him a letter anonymously or something because some pastors are arrogant and they think their word is God. Did anyone else in the church look at him funny or make comments when he made that announcement? Maybe a lot of people are thinking JUST like you but don't know who/where to voice their concerns about it.

Where's this church located? Shoot, I'LL write the letter. Might show up in his office myself....

 

[Coffee]

Amen Mizz Brown....rotflmbo!!!!

Blessings,
Coffee

 

[barnardbaby027]

My issue with it would be that, as a pastor, he should know that God commissions us to give love unconditionally as he gives to us. There is no loophole that says that we should only give love to those who give evidence of change - we are to love everyone. I forget where it is, but there is a passage in the bible that says that it is with unconditional love that God's people differentiate themselves from the rest of the world.

How, then, can we minister to and condemn people in the same breath (or in this case, same action)? What does your pastor feel will be accomplished by withholding food from people who need it? If anything, that pushes people further away from God's love. It tells them what some people already think in the first place - that Christian people are judgemental and condemning.

The bottom line is, we win souls for Christ with love - not with judgement. Judgement is The Father's job, not ours.

 

[PaperClip]

Every year around the holidays my church gives out extra food to needy for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well anyone can come into the soup kitchen and get a meal, but people can sign up to have about two weeks worth of groceries delivered around the holidays. Well my pastor announced last year that he will not be giving groceries to people who were shacked up because they are living in sin. This bothers me for a lot of reasons. First of most of these people have children who shouldn't have to suffer more because their parents are poor and not married. Secondly who are we to decide that those hungry people are less deserving then drug addicts or lazy people who won't work, or people who are having sex but aren't living with their partners? I feel as if we are supposed to feed hungry people. Not just the people whose lifestyles we approve of.


This is really bothering me. Should I say something to the pastor about it or just let it go?

Interesting...
If things happened as you say, that means that the "shackers" had a YEAR to get themselves together, right?

At the same time, hopefully the gospel is going forth in pure form to inspire the "shackers" to reconsider their situation. And actually, this point applies to ALL sins...that the gospel is preached for all to do better in their respective situations.

Ok... That was kind of a joke... but kinda not....

Anyhoo.... maybe this was the pastor's way to encourage the people to consider their actions. Behavior that we want to see gets rewarded. Behavior that we DO NOT want to see gets punished. While our Lord is so gracious and longsuffering, the same thing happens.... When you obey, you get rewarded. When you disobey, you do not receive reward, which to me, equates to punishment.

It's interesting that in the acknowledgement of sin, we humans want to find some way to justify the sin, e.g., single parenthood, children suffering, etc. as a way to discredit the acknowledgement.

Honestly, unless the pastor does personal interviews with everybody in the church, who's gonna know who's shacking? And if a person is gonna be THAT BOLD about their shacking, well maybe they should get called out because the Bible does say "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." (1 Timothy 5:20). And once again, this applies to ALL sins.

I think the bottom line is that when the grocery give-away occurs, all who are supposed to receive will receive....

 

[Sweet C]

It depends.

I am not sure how this program is run at your church, what the previous stipulations where, how it is funded etc. to make an informed decision. However, if you do decide to approach your pastor, it needs to be done prayerfully.

 

[KnottyGurl]

It sounds like church funds are running low this year and he's trying to find a legitimate way to narrow down who receives what. True enough, shackers are sinning, but sin is sin is sin. God never color-coded sin to separate and distinguish 'levels' of sin. They are ALL egregious in His eyes. You can't choose from a list of sins and say "Since this one bothers me (us) the most, this is the one we'll punish." He is going to break down and break up your church with that move. You have to treat ALL sin that way. Those who steal, gossip, curse, etc. are all open to the same type of treatment no matter how 'small' it may look next to 'shacking'. Be stringent with all or none. Hot or cold. No double standards should be allowed. It sends a horrible message to the congregation.

JMHO

 

[StrawberryQueen]

It sounds like church funds are running low this year and he's trying to find a legitimate way to narrow down who receives what. True enough, shackers are sinning, but sin is sin is sin. God never color-coded sin to separate and distinguish 'levels' of sin. They are ALL egregious in His eyes. You can't choose from a list of sins and say "Since this one bothers me (us) the most, this is the one we'll punish." He is going to break down and break up your church with that move. You have to treat ALL sin that way. Those who steal, gossip, curse, etc. are all open to the same type of treatment no matter how 'small' it may look next to 'shacking'. Be stringent with all or none. Hot or cold. No double standards should be allowed. It sends a horrible message to the congregation.

JMHO

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Honey6928215]

Whether the church funds are running low or not, you are right to feel that way. That statement from the pastor (of all people) wouldn't set too well with me, either. You have people doing God know what in the church and I'm sure they don't get that type of treatment.

I would seriously talked to him about that. Because if he doesn't take that back, then he better expect that collection to be very low.

 

[chicacanella]

Who knows? Maybe God told him to back off from giving these people food. Maybe the paqstor was enabling the people to continue living in sin. and yeah, there is a such thing as righteous judging. People always take that scripture in Matthew and think it says don't judge. No, he didn't say that. He is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. Like knowingly sinning and not wanting to get rid of the sin;committing the same sin over and over again every single day and not striving to change then turning around and judging someone else like your stuff is together. That is what Jesus is talking about.

It says in Ezekiel (3) I believe, that if I see my brother going down the wrong path and don't tell him, then when he dies his blood is on my hands. Also, it says that you have the right to judge people in the church and if they don't change after you have brought other brothers and sisters wtih you, then you all have the right to put him out of the church.

I think one of the biggest lies of Satan is to have people walking aorund thinking they can't say anything to anyone else because *oooooh* "don't want to judge anyone." but the bible doesn't say that. And people who've aren't even Christians or have never read a bible before in their whole lives are the ones to sit up and throw this scripture around.

 

[PaperClip]

Who knows? Maybe God told him to back off from giving these people food. Maybe the paqstor was enabling the people to continue living in sin. and yeah, there is a such thing as righteous judging. People always take that scripture in Matthew and think it says don't judge. No, he didn't say that. He is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. Like knowingly sinning and not wanting to get rid of the sin;committing the same sin over and over again every single day and not striving to change then turning around and judging someone else like your stuff is together. That is what Jesus is talking about.

It says in Ezekiel (3) I believe, that if I see my brother going down the wrong path and don't tell him, then when he dies his blood is on my hands. Also, it says that you have the right to judge people in the church and if they don't change after you have brought other brothers and sisters wtih you, then you all have the right to put him out of the church.

I think one of the biggest lies of Satan is to have people walking aorund thinking they can't say anything to anyone else because *oooooh* "don't want to judge anyone." but the bible doesn't say that. And people who've aren't even Christians or have never read a bible before in their whole lives are the ones to sit up and throw this scripture around.

That's real and good talk right there....

 

[chicacanella]

That's real and good talk right there....

I am just saying...I hate when people throw this scripture out their mouths without even having read the whole book, let alone that chapter.

For instance, I have a cd by Marvin Winan's and in one of his lyrics, he says, "I've been through enough to say there is no God, to turn cold and ....."

Never the less, the following verses tell that he's been through all of this but he still believes in God.

But what if someone just listened to one clip and heard, " there is no....." Then they would run around saying, "Yeah, I heard it for myself on his cd. He said, "xYZ." That is what alot of people do with the bible, take one scripture and not use it in context to the rest of the bible.

And really, we don't know if God told him not to do it or not. Only way to know is to ask him or pray and ask God.

 

[Shimmie]

Jesus looked upon the multitude and saw that they were hungry. They had been with Him all day, listening to His word and He had great compassion, not judgment, for they had to far to travel home without being nourished.

With a little boy's lunch of 5 loaves and fishes, He held it up before the Father and blessed it. Then He fed them all until they were full and there was plenty left over for more.

I'm more than sure that there were many among those who were in sin and had no intention of changing. Yet, Jesus fed them all.

Personally, I cannot bear the thought of leaving a child out of being fed. I just can't, no matter who the parents are or what state of sin they are in. While I don't want to enable the parents, two weeks of food isn't going to make or break me, let alone a ministry. Where in God's name is the mercy?

During hurricane Katrina, as many of us, I sat and watched the sufferings of so many people. The news was on just as I would arrive home for dinner and I could not find myself able to eat while they suffered.

Now New Orleans is well-known for voodoo, witchcraft, and many of the darkside activities, let alone the mardegra (sp?). Yet, there was no way that I could turn away from helping these precious lives with what I had. I couldn't judge, neither could I say that I could not contribute to rebuilding the lives of this culture. Who was I to pick and choose who was / wasn't deserving of help? Not all of these precious lives delved in the occult. Most were totally innocent. So only God could make that judgment, not me.

How do we know why a woman is unmarried or even a man? I don't know; I don't advocate it, but yet it's not always rebellion against what's right.

And the others whom were chosen to feed, instead by this Pastor, how do we know they aren't in sexual sin as well? To even 'think' about sex is considered sin, for we have already performed the act in our hearts/minds.

I dunno.... I just can't do it. Not to a baby, a precious child who never asked to come into this world. Collar the mother and the father, but not the babies. That's just too sad for me. Too, sad.

ETA: Mizz Brown... girl, you had me in tears, rolling on the floor with this statement,

"...And about 95% of the congregation is living subconsciously or purposely in sin so if you want to be PC about it, not too many folks should be eating."


Mizz Brown...you are too much and too true...

 

[Coffee]

People always take that scripture in Matthew and think it says don't judge. No, he didn't say that. He is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. a quote by chicacanella

I must beg to differ with your opinion of God is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. Who of us on this earth is so perfect and has our stuff together that we can judge someone else? As far as I know there was only one perfect person and His name is Jesus. I realize everyone has a differet opinion on what certain scriptures mean.

Blessings,
Coffee

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Jesus looked upon the multitude and saw that they were hungry. They had been with Him all day, listening to His word and He had great compassion, not judgment, for they had to far to travel home without being nourished.

With a little boy's lunch of 5 loaves and fishes, He held it up before the Father and blessed it. Then He fed them all until they were full and there was plenty left over for more.

I'm more than sure that there were many among those who were in sin and had no intention of changing. Yet, Jesus fed them all.

Personally, I cannot bear the thought of leaving a child out of being fed. I just can't, no matter who the parents are or what state of sin they are in. While I don't want to enable the parents, two weeks of food isn't going to make or break me, let alone a ministry. Where in God's name is the mercy?

During hurricane Katrina, as many of us, I sat and watched the sufferings of so many people. The news was on just as I would arrive home for dinner and I could not find myself able to eat while they suffered.

Now New Orleans is well-known for voodoo, witchcraft, and many of the darkside activities, let alone the mardegra (sp?). Yet, there was no way that I could turn away from helping these precious lives with what I had. I couldn't judge, neither could I say that I could not contribute to rebuilding the lives of this culture. Who was I to pick and choose who was / wasn't deserving of help? Not all of these precious lives delved in the occult. Most were totally innocent. So only God could make that judgment, not me.

How do we know why a woman is unmarried or even a man? I don't know; I don't advocate it, but yet it's not always rebellion against what's right.

And the others whom were chosen to feed, instead by this Pastor, how do we know they aren't in sexual sin as well? To even 'think' about sex is considered sin, for we have already performed the act in our hearts/minds.

I dunno.... I just can't do it. Not to a baby, a precious child who never asked to come into this world. Collar the mother and the father, but not the babies. That's just too sad for me. Too, sad.

ETA: Mizz Brown... girl, you had me in tears, rolling on the floor with this statement,

"...And about 95% of the congregation is living subconsciously or purposely in sin so if you want to be PC about it, not too many folks should be eating."


Mizz Brown...you are too much and too true...

I agree!

People always take that scripture in Matthew and think it says don't judge. No, he didn't say that. He is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. a quote by chicacanella

I must beg to differ with your opinion of God is saying don't judge unless you have your stuff together. Who of us on this earth is so perfect and has our stuff together that we can judge someone else? As far as I know there was only one perfect person and His name is Jesus. I realize everyone has a differet opinion on what certain scriptures mean.

Blessings,
Coffee

And I agree with Coffee, some need to take their own advice. Here we go again with the "you don't have the same understand as I, so your'e wrong and misguided" mess. How very Christian of yall.

And to think that people should go without food/etc because of how we percieve their sin? Good God Almighty, are Christians discussing this or politicians? Never have I heard anything so cold hearted and hypocritical.

Remind me to start denying you food, shelter, compassion, understanding, etc the next time you go through a hard period in your life-which may or may not be due to your own behavior.

Oh, but I must have forgotten, some of us are without sin and therefore free to cast the first stone.

 

[PaperClip]

I agree!
And I agree with Coffee, some need to take their own advice. Here we go again with the "you don't have the same understand as I, so your'e wrong and misguided" mess. How very Christian of yall.

And to think that people should go without food/etc because of how we percieve their sin? Good God Almighty, are Christians discussing this or politicians? Never have I heard anything so cold hearted and hypocritical.

Remind me to start denying you food, shelter, compassion, understanding, etc the next time you go through a hard period in your life-which may or may not be due to your own behavior.

Oh, but I must have forgotten, some of us are without sin and therefore free to cast the first stone.

Ok...

I recognize the point concerning the valid interpretation of that scripture. Maybe someone could fairly offer an explanation of that passage for clarity.

With regard to people going without food because of how we "perceive" their sin. Well, what's the Bible for? For ALL of us to use as guidance of how we should conduct ourselves. There are some things that I think every Christian knows is displeasing in the Lord's sight. The big deal about shacking (living together without being married) is the unrealistic notion that a man and a woman, in a romantic relationship, cannot abstain from sexual relations (fornication).

Now say a couple is living together and they are not participating in fornication... Amen...but the Bible also says to avoid the appearance of evil.... In other words, don't let your good be evil spoken of... don't even give people the chance to start any rumors....

With that said, ain't nobody gonna go hungry if this ONE CHURCH doesn't do their food drive. People can be very resourceful. Or I'll make it personal: I'M NOT GONNA GO HUNGRY because one church decided not to feed me 'cause I'm shacking (I'm not shackin', y'all). One thing I've learned about folk: people do what they WANNA DO....

Like I said earlier: the pastor said LAST YEAR that he wasn't feeding shackin' folk THIS YEAR, which means they has 12 MONTHS to get it together, ESPECIALLY if it was made clear to them through the word of God via the pastor's teaching that shacking is not pleasing to the Lord. So at what point is the pastor FREE from accountability from those who choose to stay in their mess AFTER THEY HAVE HEARD THE WORD and DID NOT OBEY? Seriously?

One thing that chicacanella said that I think got overlooked is the blood on his hands if he does not tell the people when they are doing wrong/against the word of God (REGARDLESS of what the pastor is or is not doing right, per se). I think the pastor's methods are probably not the best approach, but his motivation may be to 1) get the people to get themselves together and 2) get the blood off of his hands.

And honestly, SQ: if you think this situation is bad, then you got to get out more, hon....

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Ok...

I recognize the point concerning the valid interpretation of that scripture. Maybe someone could fairly offer an explanation of that passage for clarity.

With regard to people going without food because of how we "perceive" their sin. Well, what's the Bible for? For ALL of us to use as guidance of how we should conduct ourselves. There are some things that I think every Christian knows is displeasing in the Lord's sight. The big deal about shacking (living together without being married) is the unrealistic notion that a man and a woman, in a romantic relationship, cannot abstain from sexual relations (fornication).

Now say a couple is living together and they are not participating in fornication... Amen...but the Bible also says to avoid the appearance of evil.... In other words, don't let your good be evil spoken of... don't even give people the chance to start any rumors....

With that said, ain't nobody gonna go hungry if this ONE CHURCH doesn't do their food drive. People can be very resourceful. Or I'll make it personal: I'M NOT GONNA GO HUNGRY because one church decided not to feed me 'cause I'm shacking (I'm not shackin', y'all). One thing I've learned about folk: people do what they WANNA DO....

Like I said earlier: the pastor said LAST YEAR that he wasn't feeding shackin' folk THIS YEAR, which means they has 12 MONTHS to get it together, ESPECIALLY if it was made clear to them through the word of God via the pastor's teaching that shacking is not pleasing to the Lord. So at what point is the pastor FREE from accountability from those who choose to stay in their mess AFTER THEY HAVE HEARD THE WORD and DID NOT OBEY? Seriously?

One thing that chicacanella said that I think got overlooked is the blood on his hands if he does not tell the people when they are doing wrong/against the word of God (REGARDLESS of what the pastor is or is not doing right, per se). I think the pastor's methods are probably not the best approach, but his motivation may be to 1) get the people to get themselves together and 2) get the blood off of his hands.

And honestly, SQ: if you think this situation is bad, then you got to get out more, hon....

And you know this how? Please tell me how you know this. How do you know that that can of food won't be someone's last meal. Or that because two people live together they are automatically having sex. You know this how? Please enlighten me w/o making assumptions.

Honestly, if the food drive wasn't important...hmmm, I guess they wouldn't be having it? Maybe you need to be put into a situation of extremes based on how people percieve you. I won't make it personal, as those type of attacks are discouraged here (and I find it beneath me), but look at yourself and then see how much you'd like it if people chose to reprimand/judge/chastize/help you into "fixing" yourself while at the same time forcing you to do without something you dearly need.

Why single out shacking folks? And a year is supposed to do what....most likely they've been together loger than that and nothing has come to fruition. What's a deadline supposed to do. He should first hold out on the gluttons-they don't need anymore food-they're fat already, and then the liars/thieves-b/c they can scheme their way into getting more food if they need it. And what about the murderers? If you're going to deny people b/c of sin then you need to deny EVERYONE b/c everyone is full of sin. It never fails to amaze me how some Christians like to pick and choose which sins to persecute, like they're pieces of candy. "Ooooh, fornication sounds yummy today. I'll save idolatry for tomorrow after dinner." EXCUSE ME?

And I don't need to "get out more" and see all of the evils of the world, just so I can't displace my focus from the church and the issues it'g going through, and say "oh well XYZ is happening", why focus on what's going on in one little church. Preacher so and so is acting up over there, and blah blah blah. Great diversionary tactic...now who was it who talked about such things happening....?

Trust me, I am aware of all of the ills of the world and of man. I don't blindfold or avert my eyes in this type of ridiculousness. Good try, not working.

 

[PaperClip]

And you know this how? Please tell me how you know this. How do you know that that can of food won't be someone's last meal. Or that because two people live together they are automatically having sex. You know this how? Please enlighten me w/o making assumptions.

How do I know what? That nobody is gonna go hungry? I say that because this one church is not the only church on the planet, in this country, in that state, in that city, and probably not on that block that has some kind of outreach program, esp. during the holidays. I also say that because I believe in the SOVEREIGNTY of God. I believe that when God wants/needs something to be done, including getting the can of food to that person, it shall be done. There is a willing vessel somewhere.

With regard to your point about two people living together and automatically having sex: I said in my post that it could happen that a couple in relationship could still live together and not have sex. Ok, it is possible, but highly unlikely, highly unrealistic. And I'll even go as far as to say that such a couple may have all the best intentions in the fleshly capacity to desire to abstain, but the Bible says to put NO CONFIDENCE in the flesh (Philippians 3:3). In other words, we are not to trust our flesh to make the right choices. Paul mentioned this in Romans 7.

Honestly, if the food drive wasn't important...hmmm, I guess they wouldn't be having it? Maybe you need to be put into a situation of extremes based on how people percieve you. I won't make it personal, as those type of attacks are discouraged here (and I find it beneath me), but look at yourself and then see how much you'd like it if people chose to reprimand/judge/chastize/help you into "fixing" yourself while at the same time forcing you to do without something you dearly need.

The church is supposed to challenge us in our faith, to strive to have a lifestyle pleasing unto God. The Bible says whom the Lord loveth, He chaseneth (Hebrews 12:6-7). And the Lord is SO MERCIFUL, He will use several channels to chasten us so that we will listen, and one channel to chasten is through the pastor.

I'm sorry that it is not clear to me the link between personal perception and participation in a food drive. My point is that if THIS CHURCH says they will not give food to a shacking couple, I'm resourceful enough to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GET WHAT I NEED!! There are functionally illiterate folk who are resourceful. There are poor folk who are resourceful. There are homeless folk who are resourceful. There are SHACKIN' folk who are resourceful.


Why single out shacking folks? And a year is supposed to do what....most likely they've been together loger than that and nothing has come to fruition. What's a deadline supposed to do. He should first hold out on the gluttons-they don't need anymore food-they're fat already, and then the liars/thieves-b/c they can scheme their way into getting more food if they need it. And what about the murderers? If you're going to deny people b/c of sin then you need to deny EVERYONE b/c everyone is full of sin. It never fails to amaze me how some Christians like to pick and choose which sins to persecute, like they're pieces of candy. "Ooooh, fornication sounds yummy today. I'll save idolatry for tomorrow after dinner." EXCUSE ME?

You know what? I don't know why this pastor focused on the shackers. Hey...maybe he threw a dart on the wall. Maybe he counted on his fingers. OR, maybe there are SEVERAL instances of couples living together outside of marriage in the congregation and that needed to be dealt with in a more significant manner. But he did. I do not discount your point about the equal opportunity of sin. That's true.

And I don't need to "get out more" and see all of the evils of the world, just so I can't displace my focus from the church and the issues it'g going through, and say "oh well XYZ is happening", why focus on what's going on in one little church. Preacher so and so is acting up over there, and blah blah blah. Great diversionary tactic...now who was it who talked about such things happening....?


Trust me, I am aware of all of the ills of the world and of man. I don't blindfold or avert my eyes in this type of ridiculousness. Good try, not working.

The point about "great diversionary tactic" is lost on me. I sincerely noted that there is A LOT going on in the church and that you are expressing some strong feelings per your usage of the words "Never have I heard anything so cold hearted and hypocritical." That statement indicated to me that you had not heard anything so cold-hearted and hypocritical before, and I simply shared the point that there are other equally (more and less) intense situations occuring....

 

[Farida]

Show me a place in the bible where Jesus refused to eat with people/heal the sick/feed the hungry because they were sinners.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Who knows, maybe his continued love and support for them despite their sins is what will make their hearts change for the better rather than him choosing to ignore them.

In the bible there is a pattern of grace and the law.

God delivers the Israelites from Egypt THEN he gives them the commandments.

As christians we are saved by faith THEN we do good works in praise.

I think the "shackers" would be more receptive to the word if they were being helped first...

 

[PaperClip]

Show me a place in the bible where Jesus refused to eat with people/heal the sick/feed the hungry because they were sinners.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. TRUE....

Who knows, maybe his continued love and support for them despite their sins is what will make their hearts change for the better rather than him choosing to ignore them.

In the bible there is a pattern of grace and the law.

God delivers the Israelites from Egypt THEN he gives them the commandments.

As christians we are saved by faith THEN we do good works in praise.

I think the "shackers" would be more receptive to the word if they were being helped first...

You make a point that Jesus met the people's natural needs before/alongside ministering to them, e.g., feeding the masses when He preached a sermon....

Your inquiry to show you a place in the bible where Jesus refused to eat with people/heal the sick/feed the hungry because they were sinners... it made me think of the lady who went to Jesus about her daughter(?) and He told her that He was sent for the lost sheep of Israel but she persisted IN FAITH and He responded.... (Matthew 15).

I think of the woman at the well.... shunned by her community because of her sins/reputation.... Jesus talked to her...she talked to Him...IN FAITH (because as she said, from a cultural perspective, their two different groups did not interact socially).... when He ministered to her, challenged her... she STAYED IN FAITH and listened to Him... and He won her over.... (John 4).

So two instances, two different approaches, instead of looking at Jesus' refusal, look at the mirror image of Jesus' responsiveness to people who interacted with Him IN FAITH.... FAITH MOVES THE LORD.... FAITH OF ANYBODY MOVES THE LORD. FAITH OF THE SINNER MOVES THE LORD. FAITH OF THE "SHACKER" MOVES THE LORD....

 

[Dee-Licious]

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
19: For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20: And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21: To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22: To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Paul didn't just deal with and help people who were already on that "right" level
He knew it was about saving people's soul not dealing with trying to make them without sin because we will ALL fall short; thus, the need for Jesus to come, die, and rise

Sunday, Rev.B talked about how can you see someone who is hungry and try to minister to and save them without feeding them? Same goes for thirst, homeless, etc...
Once you fulfill a physical need it makes someone more receptive to you being able to fill their spiritual need.

 

[Nice & Wavy]

Well, I for one minister to people on a daily basis. It's not just a ministry to me, it's my job. People come from all walks of life. Our hope is that they would come in one way, and then leave changed but, that is not always the case. Let me tell you, there is a different life when you are in ministry. Looking at it from the pews, you have a totally different view, I know...I use to be in the pews mostly too!

People hear the Word of God, we feed them, and they still live the way they want. Being kind to people by giving them food does not always cause them to change their minds about living a life of sin. Jesus spoke plainly at times and at times in parables, yet some followed Him and others continued on in their paths of self destruction. He didn't stop to go get them and bring them back. He continued on in His ministry...what God had called Him to do.

Faith without works is dead. When people hear the Word of God, faith does come and should cause us to change. People CHOOSE to change or CHOOSE not to change, that is their right as a human being. However, there are consequences when we choose not to do what the Lord wants us to do...period.

The bible speaks explicitly about fornication and that is one form of living in sin. The bible needs to be taken literally, especially to the person who week end and week out are listening to the Word, yet still chooses to do whatever they want to do.

I think we are only hearing one side of the story here regarding this pastor and his decision to not give food to the "shackers" as they are called in this thread. I'm sure his/her decision was not on a "whim" and I'm almost sure he/she spoke to them about what their lifestyle has been for the past year and even before that. Maybe his/her approach (according to the OP) wasn't the way to go, but he/she made his/her decision and he/she should stick to it. Like I said, there is another story here, not just the one that opened this thread.

Maybe the OP needed to go to the pastor and discuss this with him/her about the concerns she has with his/her decision. If he/she was my pastor (and yes, I've had to go to pastor/pastors concerning things I thought wasn't right too, and as a pastor, I have to question myself at times) I would go to him/her and discuss this instead of coming FIRST on a forum and talking to others, who are only going to go on what the OP has stated and not have the full story. How would you feel if that happened to you?

I think the pastor should answer for this to the person/persons who had the problem with it. I also think that we as people get so caught up in what so and so said, that we forget that there are always two sides to every story. What our focus should really be on is HIS-STORY!!!

As far as the pastor not feeding the children, I don't recall the OP saying anything about the children...they are innocent in all this. However, the adults/parents are the ones who aren't living by the rules and laws of God and unfortunately, the children can suffer from it.

Anyway, it's all about loving each other....even in this thread. We must not only think about the food others need for their bodies, but how we bring the FOOD FOR THOUGHT across in a thread such as this and always be reminded of who we are and WHOSE we are and how we represent Christ. He should always be the focus in our speech and our lifestyle.

Blessings to ALL!

 

[Dee-Licious]

I was always told that God wouldn't tell you to do something you can't find supported in the Bible. If it can't be found there it was Him that was telling you that

I've never read/heard in Sunday School, Sunday sermon, bible class, VBS, or my personal study time where God said help some in some certain sins but don't help those who are in other sins.

I would greatly appreciate if something could give me biblical support to this train of thought.

TIA

 

[Caramela]

I think this is the type of behavior that turns some people (who are dying to their sins) off and actually pushes them further away from turning away from their sins and coming to obey the gospel.
I understand your church not wanting to condone the behavior, but they could do so with the message they teach and their actions.

 

[Shimmie]

For the life and heart of me, I just can't 'see' it. I can't not feed a child. The OP stated that many of these families have children. I know that's it's wrong to 'live in sin'. I'd never advocate this.

Yet, I can't advocate or even find any validation for having the means to feed a family and not do so.

It's food...not paying the rent where they shack, neither paying a cable bill to shack in comfort, not even the electric/gas bill to shack in lights or heat. It's food.

Granted, there are times when I'm approached time and again from 'beggars' on the street for money, and I get weary from it. Most of the time, I don't know if they are going to use the money for drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, or whatever. And my prayer is always, 'Lord, please don't let me pass them by in error.'

There are times when the Lord will speak to me saying, "Let it go". There are times when He doesn't want me to go into my purse, publicly...it makes perfect sense. But there are times when I just do not care what they do with the money, as long as they know that someone did not pass them by.

Do I give to all? No . I can't. It's too many and it's not wise to be known as one who gives on the streets. Yet, I pray other ways to contribute and allow God to lead me otherwise.

I dunno...this is such a hard call. My heart is for the children as well as the souls of the parents. No children should ever go hungry. Never!

Something Jesus said..."Suffer (allow) the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of God". (Mark 10:14)

For years when I was in sin, my children were still loved and cared for by others who knew the Lord. My babysitter was one. Each day that I'd go to pick them up after work or my classes (in college), she always had them cleaned and fed. Her family 'adopted' my children and took them to Church, bought them coats for winter, even dressed them for an Easter Sunday service which I did not attend. YET....They prayed me in...

Here I am fully saved and sanctified by the Blood of Jesus.

A Christian family fed my babies and loved me into fellowship with Jesus.

It's only food, yet a pathway to Jesus...

 

[Dee-Licious]

For years when I was in sin, my children were still loved and cared for by others who knew the Lord. My babysitter was one. Each day that I'd go to pick them up after work or my classes (in college), she always had them cleaned and fed. Her family 'adopted' my children and took them to Church, bought them coats for winter, even dressed them for an Easter Sunday service which I did not attend. YET....They prayed me in...

Here I am fully saved and sanctified by the Blood of Jesus.

A Christian family fed my babies and loved me into fellowship with Jesus.

It's only food, yet a pathway to Jesus...

Thank you thank you thank you for this post!!!