Sincere Question

[Godyssey]

I'd like to preface this by saying I'm agnostic however, I was raised Christian and most of my family are still practicing Christians.

My question is on your opinions of... well, it could be anyone, but I was thinking more specifically of Whitney Houston.

Some in my family are usually very quick to state their opinion (as fact) about where a person goes after they die. Wether it's heaven or hell.

I think it's cruel to the friends and family members of a recently deceased person, when someone unsolicited blurts out very bluntly, and with absolutely no discretion, "oh, that person went to hell".

I didn't want to pose this question to my family, but I'm still curious. Whitney Houston through all of her issues with drugs etc, has always been a believer in God and refered to herself as a child of God. She quoted scriptures, obviously loved the lord and accepted him as her God and saviour.

So even though she was a "sinner" (or commited sin), was she still in your opinion a saved, albeit a tortured soul?

I'm not judging one way or another, just curious.

 

[JudithO]

I dont think anyone knows where Whitney ended up...

BUT

Per the bible(read romans 1 -6) , the consequence and penalty for Whitney's (and my) sins were paid on the cross 2000 yrs ago. Logically speaking, if she reconciled with christ before she died, i would imagine her in heaven? You just don't know.

All the bible says in order to be saved is to be baptised of water and the spirit, AND believe that Christ has died and paid for our sins already, AND we must follow christ and his ways... trust wholeheartedly even when it makes no logical sense.

Given all of that, logically, the probability of her making heaven given what we know about her, even with all her flaws *seem* pretty up there... but again, no one knows...

 

[Godyssey]

Yeah, but if you're on drugs, wouldn't it be impossible to follow Christ's ways? Even if you really love him and are praying to him to give you the strength?

Just like when you love a person and your addicted. Sometimes you can't show the person how much you love them because the addiction pretty much rules your life, but that doesn't mean that you don't want to do whats right, or love them any less?

 

[aribell]

I don't think we should give opinions about where someone ended up, because only God's judgment matters...and no one can know what transpired in that person's heart and mind before passing away.

At the same time, just saying that I believe in Jesus without repentance from sin is not the kind of faith that reconciles one to God. This is true from the most famous to the average Joe on the street.

Drug addiction complicates things, as it becomes a physical need for the person and no longer a choice, exactly. But still both repentance and faith are necessary.

 

[JudithO]

No one knows... the ways of God cannot be comprehended by even the most brilliant mortals...

The love and mercy of God for us knows no bounds and cannot be explained or compared to the relationship between humans.

Addiction to drugs IMO is much like any demon we struggle with daily.. lying, pornography, fornication, etc

Even if we hurt God 1 million times, if we are truly sorry and repentant for them God (unlike any human) will forgive 1 million + 1 times...

I think the misconception for some is that being "eligible" for heaven is when we keep striving for perfection in Christ... we all know that's impossible... and God is very aware that no human can be perfect..

IMO.. that's why Christianity is truly unique.... it's not about going to church or reading the bible constantly... it is realizing that you are absolutely nothing without Christ and that NOTHING you do (no matter how hard you try) can save you. Christianity is about truly developing a very personal and trusting relationship with Christ.. and like every relationship, there will be struggles, anger, tears or pain and joy.. etc... it's about trusting 100% that no matter what happens to you good or bad, you are taken care of... the more your relationship with Christ grows, the more you will naturally do things that please him... and the holy spirit will show thru your actions without you even trying...

Again, nobody knows where Whitney is... but given what I'm learning about Christ daily... ANYONE who truly believes not in their strength but in God's and is repentant of their sins is welcome into the house of God.

 

[Godyssey]

^^^ I really like your response. Thank you.

 

[Crown]

Knowing where a person is or will be after death is not human business.

He was such a good Christian! He is in heaven.
Well, can you be so sure? There is a word : hypocrisy. Only God knows the heart!
But, maybe it’s okay to think a person is or will be in heaven when he is not.
Anyway, we find comfort in believing this.

But, saying that a person is or will be in hell is judgment, bad judgment.

She was such an evil person! She is in hell.
Well, can you be so sure? There is a word : GRACE.
Are you with her soul with her last breath. How can you know she did not repent?
This is bad to put a person in hell when she is not.

We are not God, He is the Judge.

 

[Godyssey]

I'll admit that when I started this thread, I didn't expect such Christian like responses. Perhaps I've been talking to the wrong Christians in the past, as I thought they were pretty much a representative of all. I won't go any further into the experiences that I've had and witnessed, but you all have very refreshing in your posts.

Like you said Crown, "we are not the judge, God is". Seems like so many people think otherwise.

Also, I've come in this forum a handful of times and although I'm not quite certain of my beliefs, everyone is always helpful and kind. Thank you.

 

[LucieLoo12]

I am going to just answer this question on a general scale, not just in reference to Whitney Houston


The bible says, Holiness without no man shall see the Lord. We have to be holy to make it in. The bible says we have to have a pure heart in order to see the Lord.

So if the person was holy and the heart was pure before God, and they lived a life before God and was fully dedicated to the Lord, then they will make it in.

 

[Shimmie]

Godyssey...

I truly believe that Whitney is with the Lord. She lost herself; the drugs became her weakness. Yet this woman never stopped loving God with all of her heart.

She knew she was wrong with the addictions; she knew it. She knew that she followed the wrong path in life which snared her into a corner that she never managed to come out of.

Her consequence was the 'lost' of her life here on earth and the torment of the drugs overpowering her.

YET... she never stopped loving God. No matter where this woman went, or what she did, it was apparent that she loved Jesus deep within her heart and she wasn't playing games with it, meaning that it was not for 'show'.

Whitney didn't hide her sins; she flatly admitted to them and took the blame herself.

I strongly believe that this woman never missed a day without expressing her love for God; she simply lost her way and couldn't find her way back.

Drugs are a powerful demon. They bewitch people and change the chemistry of sound minds. Drugs destroy the blood which runs through a persons' veins; where the blood used to give life, it's been weakened to the point where it gives death instead.

There is not one person alive who will ever enter into Heaven without spot, wrinkle or blemish. The earth is groaning with sin and it has affected each of us from one degree to another. Yet, but for the Blood of Jesus, who Knew that our sins needed redemption, it's His Blood that covers our sins and makes us presentable to God the Father in Heaven.

I will never be one to say that Whitney Houston went to hell. And I was never a fan of hers. I 'missed' that era of her heights to fame. Yet, looking at her history, and in prayers for her family, I see a woman who belonged to Jesus all along and is now with Him in Heaven above.

She didn't go to hell. She loved God too much to be that far apart from Him. God loved her too much to lose her soul.

 

[Shimmie]

I am going to just answer this question on a general scale, not just in reference to Whitney Houston


The bible says, Holiness without no man shall see the Lord. We have to be holy to make it in. The bible says we have to have a pure heart in order to see the Lord.

So if the person was holy and the heart was pure before God, and they lived a life before God and was fully dedicated to the Lord, then they will make it in.

Yet, none of us are Holy and we never will be.

 

[Galadriel]

Yet, none of us are Holy and we never will be.

Of our own effort or merit, we won't be . That is why Christ's sanctifying graces is so awesome, because it cleanses us and makes us holy.

 

[Crown]

@Godyssey...

I truly believe that Whitney is with the Lord. She lost herself; the drugs became her weakness. Yet this woman never stopped loving God with all of her heart.

She knew she was wrong with the addictions; she knew it. She knew that she followed the wrong path in life which snared her into a corner that she never managed to come out of.

Her consequence was the 'lost' of her life here on earth and the torment of the drugs overpowering her.

YET... she never stopped loving God. No matter where this woman went, or what she did, it was apparent that she loved Jesus deep within her heart and she wasn't playing games with it, meaning that it was not for 'show'.

Whitney didn't hide her sins; she flatly admitted to them and took the blame herself.

I strongly believe that this woman never missed a day without expressing her love for God; she simply lost her way and couldn't find her way back.

Drugs are a powerful demon. They bewitch people and change the chemistry of sound minds. Drugs destroy the blood which runs through a persons' veins; where the blood used to give life, it's been weakened to the point where it gives death instead.

There is not one person alive who will ever enter into Heaven without spot, wrinkle or blemish. The earth is groaning with sin and it has affected each of us from one degree to another. Yet, but for the Blood of Jesus, who Knew that our sins needed redemption, it's His Blood that covers our sins and makes us presentable to God the Father in Heaven.

I will never be one to say that Whitney Houston went to hell. And I was never a fan of hers. I 'missed' that era of her heights to fame. Yet, looking at her history, and in prayers for her family, I see a woman who belonged to Jesus all along and is now with Him in Heaven above.

She didn't go to hell. She loved God too much to be that far apart from Him. God loved her too much to lose her soul.

Yet, none of us are Holy and we never will be.

Like the : she is in hell, this also is a questionable point of view.

Why do people like to put someone in heaven or in hell after death.
None of our business!

Putting someone in hell is bad judgment.

Putting someone in heaven?
If this person had a good apparent life : it’s comforting.
If this person had a not so good apparent life : not our business!

Be careful to not watering down the Word and causing someone to be lazy about fighting against their sins? The God knows my heart slogan.

Yes, not for all, but someone can live sinless, because of the perfect Blood and through the effective work of the Holy Spirit. His blood does not just cover our sin, It cleans us, it's the ultimate purpose.


Eph. 5 : 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev. 19 : 6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

 

[Shimmie]

Like the : she is in hell, this also is a questionable point of view.

Why do people like to put someone in heaven or in hell after death.
None of our business!

Putting someone in hell is bad judgment.

Putting someone in heaven?
If this person had a good apparent life : it’s comforting.
If this person had a not so good apparent life : not our business!

Be careful to not watering down the Word and causing someone to be lazy about fighting against their sins? The God knows my heart slogan.

Yes, not for all, but someone can live sinless, because of the perfect Blood and through the effective work of the Holy Spirit. His blood does not just cover our sin, It cleans us, it's the ultimate purpose.


Eph. 5 : 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev. 19 : 6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

Crown, I'm not watering down God's Word. It's no secret here, that I will come down without mercy on anyone who thinks that they can 'sneak' by way of the back door.

In no way am I giving anyone a free pass to not overcome and to avoid sin at any cost or measure. It's still Heaven or Hell.

In Whitney's case, there are many who want to slam her into hell and I will not be among them. I still see something different here. Just because she was an addict doesn't make her hell bound. And I'm not saying this as a fan of Whitney's as I was not a fan. Her death did not affect me as it did others who idolized her.

I'm not going to dispute this with you nor anyone else. It's not worth it. The point is that when I look at Whitney Houston, I do not see one who was bound for hell. The woman crashed and was unable to pull herself back up, and therefore lost her life.

As humans, 'WE' may not have mercy, but God surely does. And no, this does not excuse anyone to take the same path or to dishonour God by short changing a standard of holiness. For even those of us who have a form of Godliness, still fall short...daily. All that saves us is a repentent heart, a heart striving moment to moment to do better and not dishonour the God who loves us. For even in the midst of our sin of being so holy, we err' in that others can't touch us or reach God through us.

Believe or not, I say this in peace. Not anger, neither contention, but in peace. The sin is in each of us. From the bottom / up. We all sin and fall short daily in our lives.

 

[JudithO]

Crown

The problem with this approach (while your point is valid) is that you are making the assumption that with your own strength, you can choose good over bad.

That puts Christian's in this non-stop roller coaster of trying to achieve perfection that is impossible simply by our virtue of being human.

All human beings by nature are sinful... We can only please God with the help of the spirit that dwells in us.. and nothing else.

My point: If you rely not on your abilities, but on the spirit's... Christ will fight your demons with you, and for you (when you have no strength to fight)....

Romans 7:15-20 (Paul talks about humans being sinful by default)

15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.


[Romans 8:1-12]


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you[b] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus[d] from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.


8: 26 - 30


26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts (God) knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Like the : she is in hell, this also is a questionable point of view.

Why do people like to put someone in heaven or in hell after death.
None of our business!

Putting someone in hell is bad judgment.

Putting someone in heaven?
If this person had a good apparent life : it’s comforting.
If this person had a not so good apparent life : not our business!

Be careful to not watering down the Word and causing someone to be lazy about fighting against their sins? The God knows my heart slogan.

Yes, not for all, but someone can live sinless, because of the perfect Blood and through the effective work of the Holy Spirit. His blood does not just cover our sin, It cleans us, it's the ultimate purpose.


Eph. 5 : 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev. 19 : 6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

 

[LucieLoo12]

The bible says "Be ye holy for I am holy"

That wasn't a option. Its a commandment. God would have never required something we couldnt do. We do it through the power of the Holy Ghost.

He also says Holiness without no man shall see the Lord. We have to be a holy.

All holy means is pure and set apart for the work of God

Ephesians 1:4

King James Version (KJV)

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love


Colossians 1:22
King James Version (KJV)

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

This is just a couple of scriptures...

Yet, none of us are Holy and we never will be.

 

[Crown]

@Crown

The problem with this approach (while your point is valid) is that you are making the assumption that with your own strength, you can choose good over bad.

That puts Christian's in this non-stop roller coaster of trying to achieve perfection that is impossible simply by our virtue of being human.

All human beings by nature are sinful... We can only please God with the help of the spirit that dwells in us.. and nothing else.

My own strength! Seriously? Who am I?
judy4all did you really take the time to read my post?

Be careful to not watering down the Word and causing someone to be lazy about fighting against their sins? The God knows my heart slogan.

Yes, not for all, but someone can live sinless, because of the perfect Blood and through the effective work of the Holy Spirit. His blood does not just cover our sin, It cleans us, it's the ultimate purpose.


Eph. 5 : 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Rev. 19 : 6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: “Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

 

[LucieLoo12]

If someone is sinning, its not because they have to, its because they choose to. Sin is a choice. Name one sin you HAVE to do to live? The bible say Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.He came not so we can justify our sin, but so we can be free from it. People dont have to drink, curse, fight, steal, lie, fornicate, envy. Its all a choice. We can overcome these things by the Holy Ghost.

Believe or not, I say this in peace. Not anger, neither contention, but in peace. The sin is in each of us. From the bottom / up. We all sin and fall short daily in our lives.

 

[LucieLoo12]

I know the we want to be "kindhearted" and "loving" but we have to let the word be the word.....The bible says let the word be true and every man a liar..we cant just say things to appease ourselves or others. We must speak truth, not opinions or feelings...


ETA: Just because we say we love God, that isn't enough. The bible says, if we love Him, we will keep his commandments. We show our love to God through WORD and DEED....

 

[Crown]

@Crown

The problem with this approach (while your point is valid) is that you are making the assumption that with your own strength, you can choose good over bad.

I will not elaborate on this, but be holy is not just choosing good over bad.

Be holy is having the very life of God in you, from glory to glory, until someone can say in his fullness:
Gal. 2 : 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Through all mankind story some people do their best to live a life choosing good over bad, not just Christian, we all have conscience.

Even Cain had the capacity to choose good over bad :
Gen. 4 : 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

 

[JudithO]

Crown yes... I read your whole post... and especially the line you highlighted above... I wasn't saying because "God knows my heart" I can sin all I want and still be saved.

In the case of addiction for example, Alicialynn86 I can argue that people are not in their right minds and really do not have the luxury of picking good vs evil because the devil is manifesting himself in them.

I believe that having the strength to always pick good over evil (to the best of our ability) is not something that we can just pick and do... It is strength that develops over years and years of walking and trusting in the Lord. Else, every Christian wants to make heaven... we'll all do good all the time.

For every time you pick the way of the lord vs the world, it is the spirit that does that... not your own might.

Now some people have been walking in the spirit longer than others have been... are stronger than others and so it is much easier to pick good over evil... it doesn't make them more righteous than others who have just started walking, growing and trusting...

Again, all this is just my opinion... and I'm learning everyday so you may not agree....

 

[Crown]

@Crown yes... I read your whole post... and especially the line you highlighted above... I wasn't saying because "God knows my heart" I can sin all I want and still be saved.

I was not saying that I can be holy with my own strength either.

Dear judy4all, I quoted the post of Shimmie, I did not answer your post.

The God knows my heart you are referring is not about you or Shimmie.
It's a slogan in the vast Christianity.

I appreciate that Shimmie answered to my post although I don't agree with her point of view.

​

 

[Galadriel]

For even those of us who have a form of Godliness, still fall short...daily. All that saves us is a repentent heart, a heart striving moment to moment to do better and not dishonour the God who loves us.

I understand what you're saying . This is why one of my favorite prayers is "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me...a sinner."

I think what some of us are trying to say is that God's grace through Christ's sacrifice on the Cross not only grants us justification, but also works at cleansing us (interior holiness) aka sanctification.

Sanctification has a goal--perfection. Why?
Because no one in Heaven is imperfect, or sinful, or flawed. We know this is our ultimate destiny, but we don't head toward it of our own effort or will power, but by cooperating with God's grace.

We definitely fall short while here on Earth (that is why I believe in going to Confession), and that's why it's so important to rely on Christ's grace and the Holy Spirit dwelling in me.

 

[LadyRaider]

Many Christians believe that you are saved by grace. We are all sinners, and no one is able to live a perfect life. So Whitney would probably be covered by Grace... Jesus died for her sins a long time ago. But who knows? We don't know what was going on inside her.

 

[aribell]

Be careful to not watering down the Word and causing someone to be lazy about fighting against their sins? The God knows my heart slogan.

I see the bolded as important because the fate of one who has already passed on will not be affected one way or the other by what is said here. The only people who will be impacted by the conclusions reached are those who are still on earth, called to live for God. So, for those people, what do we say? Do we tell them that it will be OK in the end if they are overcome by sin? Or do we warn them like Peter did? He said, "For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first, the last state has become worse for them than the first." (2 Pet. 2:19,20)

I think we all have to fear being overtaken by sin, as Scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. It's not about putting someone else in hell, it's about staying out of there our own selves.

We have to trust the Lord with the souls of those who have passed on. We know that He is love, and that He is merciful and faithful and good. We also know that His ways are not our ways. Our mercy and grace attempts to be like His, and yet, His love is true, and pure and absolutely good...not just approximately. What this means in individual situations is in His mind alone. But when we wake up in the morning we have to be sure what God demands of us as those who claim His name.

The Lord recognizes that we sin, but while we might sin, we do not have to give ourselves over to sin. We do not surrender to sin, we fight it every day. And we recognize our culpability when we yield to temptation because we know that "there is no sin save that which is common to man," and that we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear. There is no sin that we cannot obtain victory over...otherwise our struggle would be in vain.

 

[Laela]

God's Word is a Double-Edged Sword. I believe we can live holy lives and not deliberately or consciously sin. There is also this Scripture (in full context):


1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


As long as we are wrapped up in our sinful flesh, it's possible to offend the Father, even in our very thoughts, and possibly not know it. There is the sin of omission. - not doing what is right when we are urged by the Holy Spirit to take action. There is aught and unforgiveness, which can creep in the very crevices of our souls. That is why confessing our sins one to another is important.

David, a man after God's own heart, who sought God's face, constantly asked God to search his soul. Daily renewal of spirit, body, mind and soul is what keeps us consecrated, set apart and living Holy lives. God delights in us when we are aware of our sinful nature but are not subjected to it.

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
Psalm 139:23-24 (KJV)

If someone is sinning, its not because they have to, its because they choose to. Sin is a choice. Name one sin you HAVE to do to live? The bible say Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.He came not so we can justify our sin, but so we can be free from it. People dont have to drink, curse, fight, steal, lie, fornicate, envy. Its all a choice. We can overcome these things by the Holy Ghost.

 

[LucieLoo12]

agree. The point I am making is that we do not have to STAY in a life of sin. The scripture said if we confess our sins, he will forgive and CLEANSE. As God shows us overselves and what we need to work on, we confess and repent (turn away).

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The scriptured said sinn-ed, meaning past tense. Meaning of course we all have sinned in our ignorance to the gospel. It doesn't say, If we say we are not sinning, we make Him a liar.

God doesn't want to just keep forgiving us over and over and over, but He wants to be free. Sin is bondage. The bible says should we continue to sin that grace may abound?God forbid.

I do understand that Christians may stumble, or get caught in snares., but to keep habitually and deliberately keep sinning...no

God's Word is a Double-Edged Sword. I believe we can live holy lives and not deliberately or consciously sin. There is also this Scripture (in full context):


1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


As long as we are wrapped up in our sinful flesh, it's possible to offend the Father, even in our very thoughts, and possibly not know it. There is the sin of omission. - not doing what is right when we are urged by the Holy Spirit to take action. There is aught and unforgiveness, which can creep in the very crevices of our souls. That is why confessing our sins one to another is important.

David, a man after God's own heart, who sought God's face, constantly asked God to search his soul. Daily renewal of spirit, body, mind and soul is what keeps us consecrated, set apart and living Holy lives. God delights in us when we are aware of our sinful nature but are not subjected to it.

Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
Psalm 139:23-24 (KJV)

 

[Laela]

Alicialynn86, did you consider Verse 8? That's why I'd posted the entire chapter.... you've picked only the last two verses to make your point. Because our very emotions and feelings can blind us from truth, the deception comes by denying the existence of any sin in our hearts.

 

[SummerSolstice]

It seems that there is an assumption that one can go about their lives with out sin.
We can sin and not even know.
How about our thoughts? I know people aren't just walking around never having a sinful thought.
There's no way to track these things either. No apps for your phone or ipad... nothing.
Only Christ can make this decision... why do we keep debating this?
Obviously we should be like Christ but we will never be Him. We can follow His guidelines but regardless of who we are, they will still be broken.
Can we rest in His sovereignty in the CF now and leave the judgement to Christ?

 

[LucieLoo12]

Well if my emotions and feelings are leading me to not want to do and justify sin, well Glory!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I agree with the scripture! But did you read my entire post? I said God will show us our error and what we need to need work on, and be delievered from, but what I am saying is that we do not have to STAY in sin..We are to be conformed to the image of Christ.