Roux PC vs ACV Rinse vs Cold Water Rinsing

divachyk

divachyk

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Roux combats porosity and closes the cuticle, right?

How does using Roux differ from doing or final rinse with cold/cool water OR doing an ACV to rinse?

Which of these 3 methods are the best.....or, are these methods complimentary in that I should do all 3 methods rather than picking just 1 of them?
 
I use Roux PC and I follow up with a Cold Rinse (so I am not sure how to answer this?). I also use Nexxus Ensure Acidifying Conditioner (3.0 ph) and French Perm Stablizer (2.5 ph)*that one, after relaxing*

I use an Acidifying Conditioner weekly as my Final Rinse after Steaming(DC'ing) w/Heat as a means to close cuticle and battle porosity. And I always rinse w/Cold Water.:ohwell:

I recently purchased a Acidifying Shampoo by Euclence. I think I will use this for my first shampoo post relaxer or perhaps after I neutralize (next relaxer) or in combination with.

I have never used the ACV rinse, but heard many good things about them. *Sorry I can't really help*:perplexed
 
I don't think cold water closes cuticles at all since the opening and closing of cuticles depends on PH changes.

According to this site, Roux PC is mostly humectants which improve the hair's ability to hold onto moisture and also contains a pH adjuster which probably helps close cuticles, therefore solving the problem porous hair seems to have which is moisture loss.

ACV rinse does close cuticles.

So I think you could do with just Roux PC alone but I don't think it'd hurt to end with a very dilute ACV rinse.

I haven't used Roux PC but I use ACV at the end of every wash.
 
Actually cold water does effect cuticle closure but only to a certain extent it isn't as effective as using a more acidic solution to alter cuticle position......I haven't used Roux PC but I think ACV Rinsing is da truth....my hair showed immediate results after applying ACV after my wash and DC
 
Wow... I definitely thought the cool water kept the cuticles closed as well. If cool doesn't close the cuticle, then heat must not open it then, correct? Which would mean DC'ing with heat, which people have been swearing by for years does absolutely nothing? That's confusing to me. Please come back and explain Nonie! Because I felt a remarkable difference in the softness of my hair when I did a cool water rinse after my DC than when I rinsed it out with hot water.

omegachick31 - how do you use the ACV rinse? Do you just get in the shower after DC'ing and use it instead of water to rinse the DC out? I am strongly thinking about using this now, even though I originally didn't want to. How do you dilute it?
 
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Cold water does close the cuticles, which is why people have been rinsing with cold water or even just running ice cubes down their hair to get it to be shinier. Flat cuticles = more shine. And heat/steam opens cuticles, which is why you use it to DC and whatever.

But I do think that doing that closing the cuticles by lowering the ph is more effective, and I think it has more lasting effects too. Personally, I use PC and then rinse with cold water to reinforce it. I prefer PC because it doesn't smell, doesn't sting my eyes, and I don't have to worry about ratios and mixing and whatnot. But I was using cold diluted ACV as a final rinse, (I still use it when I run out of PC) and the results were comparable. ACV also has the advantage of being natural and way less expensive.
But I feel it depends on your personal preferences.
 
@ davisbr88
when you apply heat to almost any object in most cases it will cause thermal expansion causing that object to alter its physical properties and at high enough tempetures its chemical properties....removing heat can also have an effect on an objects physical and chemical properties. Rinsing the hair in cold water does cause the cuticle to move towards a "closed" position but it is an extremely temporary adjustment...meaning its effects are not long lasting and can be disrupted with something as simple as towel drying...maybe that is why nonie stated she did not believe in cold water rinsing as a cuticle closer but I will let her elaborate further...


Now in regards to your question for me, In order to ensure that the ACV is in an optimal pH range I dilute it with distilled water and check the pH with pH strips...I have two kind that checks the whole ph range of 1-14 and one that focuses on acidic range of 2-6 on a .5 scale. I like to obtain a ph of about 4 for the products that I mix. After I wash my hair with shampoo and rinse I will then put on a conditioner and lightly spray my hair with the ACV solution (I wash my hair in sections) and I will not rinse out the conditioner until I have done each section as I just described...so for example if after washing the right back quadrant I rinse, put on a conditioner and lightly spray with the ACV solution and smooth my hair from root to tip and braid that section up...I then move on to the next quadrant....after I'm done with my entire head...I rinse with cold water. If I DC...I just get in the shower after being under the dryer...rinse my hair with cold water and then spray with the ACV solution...you can tell an immediate difference in the smoothness of your hair and it does away with my puffy ends and I am able to braid my hair all the way to the end which curls right up...its a miracle actually...because it didn't do that before I started using the ACV with the exception of the kimmaytube leave-in but it works also because of its pH factor
 
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I have not seen any scientific evidence of cuticle closing from being washed with cold water. What I think happens is cold water doesn't strip off conditioner or whatever it is you just used on your hair the way warm water might, which is why your hair might feel softer. But if you had bare hair and washed it with cold water and then bare hair and washed it with warm, I don't think you'd have softer hair from the cold water.

I went to boarding school and for years washed my hair with cold water. I never had soft/smooth hair from that.

So until someone shows me some scientific proof that cold water closes cuticles I will not believe it does, just like I do not believe cold water closes pores on the skin. The most cold water does to skin is make blood vessels pull away from the skin.

If cold water was the cuticle closer you all make it out to be, my hair should be the most tangled because I never use it. Today I didn't even ACV rinse because I was in a rush, yet I was just redoing a twist and it was so easy to separate strands--something I believe would only be possible if the strands were smooth. Did I mention I didn't apply anything to my hair after the wash?

ETA: And if temperature played a role in opening and closing of cuticles, then it would be a very essential part in relaxing hair. As we all know it is pH and not temperature that is called to play when hair is relaxed. Need I say more?

This rumor about cold water closing pores seemed to have started the same way as the rumor that face exercises cause wrinkles did. Someone just THOUGHT it made sense and suddenly it became the "gospel". And like a placebo pill, because you buy into it, you believe it without considering other factors like how rinsing a greasy plate with cold water might not leave it as "clean" as rinsing it with hot water.
 
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Nonie, did you use conditioner? What keeps your hair that smooth? Have you found a way to make 4b behave like 3c? ;-)
 
Thanks for the explanations, Nonie and omegachick31. I never actually believed cool water would make my hair smoother, so I'm definitely not someone who fell victim to a placebo effect. It's just something I decided to try and it seemed to work for me. My hair always felt smooth after a DC but my ends would feel rough. After the cold water rinse, my ends didn't feel rough. So who really knows until there's scientific evidence, as Nonie says. And maybe it is just a temporary thing like omegachick says.
Anyway, since we know ACV works, I think I will try that. I don't have pH strips, so I guess I can't go based on that. Maybe someone can chime in with measurements of water to ACV? Pretty please!

ETA: Sorry I hijacked your thread with my questions OP!
 
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davisbr88, I have not DC'd with heat since 2007 and my hair is still doing well. The only sense I could make of why that might work, is perhaps it melts the product so that it is more easily absorbed? If there's any truth to expanding strands, then what I picture is strands getting fatter not just the scales lifting--I mean, why would the heat only expand the edges of the scales only to make them alone lift? Why not the bases too, meaning the part the edge of each scales rests on also lifts to keep the scale closed?

Another reason I stopped DCing with heat is if there is any truth to "bubble hair" then how can one be sure it doesn't happen when DCing with heat? After all, bubble hair is said to happen when liquid inside strands expands and boils inside the strand, leading to a mid-strand split.

I'm grateful that there's such a thing as DCing w/o heat and it's been working nicely for me.
 
miss cosmic said:
Nonie, did you use conditioner? What keeps your hair that smooth? Have you found a way to make 4b behave like 3c? ;-)
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What made my hair smooth? Warm water. :giggle:

No, I have not found a way to make 4b hair behave like 3c nor have I tried or want to. To be honest, I'm not even sure I know what that means because we're talking about two totally different hair patterns, one with big curls with their own characteristics and one with minute curls with their own unique characteristics. I love the way 4b hair behaves, and would not swap it for any other. And that's the honest to God truth.

I did use conditioner. I always use conditioner when I wash my hair. I think my strands are smooth because I avoid baking soda like the plague and maybe my shampoos are acidic which helps keep my strands smooth. I remember someone being surprised that when I shampoo my hair, I can talk of having slip from the shampoo when she only knew of shampoo being stripping not slippery. I do use a conditioner with ceramides so I guess that helps. Maybe not brushing, using fingers most of the time, not using heat much...help to keep my cuticles more intact so that the strands behave better. And yes, regular use of ACV does keep cuticles closed.

My 4B hair cannot do a WNG like 3C, doesn't clump like 3C, doesn't hang from the weight of water like 3C and look wavy. My 4B hair forms an afro in a way 3C can't, can hold a style in a way 3C can't, can be worn in almost any look you can think of, with a little creativity--something a lot of other types cannot boast of. So nah, one cannot really be made to behave like the other.
 
davisbr88 said:
Anyway, since we know ACV works, I think I will try that. I don't have pH strips, so I guess I can't go based on that. Maybe someone can chime in with measurements of water to ACV? Pretty please!

ETA: Sorry I hijacked your thread with my questions OP!
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I try to make this hair journey less of a chore by not being so rigid. I do try to be careful though so I opt to err on the side of caution by making my ACV solution as dilute as possible. I usually just eyeball the amount I use because I argue that even just a touch of acidity is better than none at all.

The estimate I use is about 1/4 cup (or 4 tablespoons) of ACV in 2 gallons of water. So if I were not dunking my head in a basin of the solution and were instead just pouring it over my head, as I sometimes do when in a hurry, then I'd use 1/8 cup (or 2 tablespoons) ACV in a gallon container of water.
 
@omegachick31 and @davisbr88, thank you for reviving this thread as it's a topic that keeps me confused. In due time I'll figure it out.

After Nonie kindly shared her wisdom, I revised my regi to include ACV rinse. I don't have the measurements with me that I use (I'm at work). I actually found the measurements from another hair board. I haven't checked the ph of the mixture but I think it's helped my hair OR it could be the placebo effect.

Now I either Roux PC before my DC or add Roux PC within my DC. I've been rinsing out the conditioner with warm water, then pouring the ACV over my hair and then lightly rinsing the ACV out with cold water as a final rinse. Perhaps that's not the right way to do it. I'd be interested in hearing other ACV methods/measurements. Maybe we'll have to start another thread for that if no one visits and shares their methods.
 
I do about a tablespoon of ACV to a cup of water as my final rinse along with cold water...my hair definately feels better when the acv goes on. The cold water whether is smooths or not has become addictive to me as a final soothing rinse:) (I rinse in the sink). Like Nonie I also don't DC with heat.
 
Hmmm. I believe cold water does help compact the cuticle. My hair feels different when I rinse with icy water, the hair feels sort of tight and hard and looks shiny whereas if I were to rinse with hot water it would be sort of softer, soggier and not smooth. I could be imagining this though, idk.
I was doing vinegar rinses each week a while back this year but they were TOO strong and ended up drying my poor hair out. I thought like 3 tbsp was okay in 8 oz of water :look:. So I stopped them altogether out of fear and just use icy water at the end and it seems to work.........
As far as Roux is concerned, it never did much of anything for me.
 
Hair Care Why Rinsing with Cold Water is Better for Your Hair and Skin

Although this is not scientific, and I am at work and not supposed to be on the forum (ha ha ha)...I think this offers supporting evidence of the cuticle closing from cool water.

To be fair, this is a potato/poTAHto argument, because I think all members agree ACV or PC is a better choice than cold water (whether you believe it closes the cuticle or not) to close the cuticle. I use ACV and I find it is awesome...it's super cheap, I can get it at my grocery store, and the smell doesn't bother me. It rinses away, anyhow. I find that my hair is never tangly when I use ACV and it is much softer. I've never used PC because the ACV works well for me, so I can't comment on the quality of that product. From my experience (MINE ONLY) I think that ACV is a suitable replacement for PC if you are trying to be cost efficient. Plus, ACV is also great to put on your salad as a lipid burner, if you're trying to lose weight, so it has multiple purposes. :-)
 
I've never had much luck with ACV rinsing or cold water rinses tbh. I've found that applying Roux PC directly after a steam works wonders for my moisture retention though.
 
divachyk said:
@omegachick31 and @davisbr88Now I either Roux PC before my DC or add Roux PC within my DC.
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I've always wondered about people who said they do that. The directions are so specific for 30 seconds that I've never felt comfortable putting it in something that will sit for an hour on my head. I used to do maybe 2-3 minutes with it on in the shower but it wasn't till reading a thread where women said they stuck strictly to the 30 seconds that I tried that and found my porosity (eh more like my obsession with the sink/float test) stopped. Now my hair floats almost 70% of the time.
 
Thanks so much for all of the helpful responses, ladies! I will definitely be starting off small with maybe a third of a teaspoon per cup, which is a little less than what Nonie uses per cup (but the closest I can get with my measuring spoons... lol), since that's the most diluted mixture I have ever seen, and then will increase from there if necessary.
 
davisbr88, if that makes your hair feel great, then I say stick to it. Always tell yourself that too much acidity can break down the protein in your hair. That should stop you from trying to go to crazy with ACV.
 
^^ Definitely! I had been vehemently opposed to using ACV ever since I heard about it because it just frightened me to put it on my hair when I never put it in my body (unless it's in a dressing or a sauce or something) so I am definitely going to tread gently with it. I won't be going higher than a tablespoon per cup.
 
davisbr88 said:
^^ Definitely! I had been vehemently opposed to using ACV ever since I heard about it because it just frightened me to put it on my hair when I never put it in my body (unless it's in a dressing or a sauce or something) so I am definitely going to tread gently with it. I won't be going higher than a tablespoon per cup.
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You mean a teaspoon right? A tablespoon in a cup would be 1:4 ratio which IMO is a bit concentrated. My mixture is a 1:128 ratio, and it's never failed me since 2004 when I started doing it.
 
^^^ hahaha. Well, like I said, I am only going to increase if necessary, and I definitely won't go above a tablespoon! I may never get to that point, but I definitely want my hair to behave!
 
I've never used Roux. And I only apply ACV to my hair in a spray bottle that is mixed with water and glycerin and just a bit of acv to make the solution a ph of 4.5

Acidic solutions help to close the cuticle, so I use my acv, water and glycerin mixture to close my cuticles after doing a cold rinse. Because I dont feel like the cold rinse works as well. :)

If anyone is confused about how much acv to put to water Kimmaytube has a really good PH testing experiment where she dilutes it to the perfect ratio close to your hair's PH.

P.S. Baking soda is bad for the hair. Don't do it.
 
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