Response video to comments about Maximum Hydration

[koolkittychick]

It's Friday night, so I won't be responding point-by-point. I plan to be drinking shortly.

To the bold, you've answered your own question. 95% of the problems I've observed re: 4c hair are caused by dryness. Again, what on earth could be wrong with moisturized hair? Dry hair is not healthy hair, I don't care what lies people have been telling themselves. If my hair is dry, my number one priority is to moisturize it. Everything else, curl pattern, growing down instead of out, etc, is all extra.

Has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason 3c and lower (not "higher" ) hair hangs and has a defined curl pattern is solely because it gets moisturized easier? And NOT because 'it has a curl pattern and 4c just doesn't'. In which case, yes, moisturizing ANY non-straight texture will result in some kinda coil/ curl whether you wanted it or not.

You're not dealing with any of the points I brought up (I wonder why). Instead, you focus on a statement that describes an extreme action practiced by followers of MHM specifically to produce a certain look, i.e., a DIY Jheri Curl. You do not have to go to the extremes of MHM to have moisturized hair; you do it, in Pinkie Cube's own words, to achieve the styling options available to people with 3c and lower hair, to "even the playing field." And as the poster below you stated, porosity has nothing to do with hair type; I know people with 4c hair who can get very soft, long-lasting moisture in their hair with plain water. They won't get curls, but they will certainly get moisture. So your last premise (that I bolded) is plain false.

 

[shelli4018]

I know you are not saying this but not all 4C hair equals hi porosity hair. I know women who are 4C and they do not have hi porosity hair and their hair doesn't have much shrinkage. I know women with straight hair that is hi porosity and their hair is like straw. With that being said if the hair porosity is corrected it is easier to retain length and style the hair. But you can still have hang time with out the curls as your hair gets longer if the porosity issue is corrected check out Kimmay's youtube on her seventh year hair growth. Her hair is hanging not much curl.

I agree with this. Addressing porosity is a game changer. For some people it's the difference between frizzy, fried, breaking hair and soft, defined, moisturized hair. There truly are folk who thought they were stuck with frizzy hair only to discover it isn't true. I'm one of those people.

 

[almond eyes]

I am also not knocking this method either. I have extreme high porosity hair and the only thing that has helped changed the name of the game for me was a modified tightly curly girl method without the denman brush and I co wash everyday (shampooed every two weeks or as needed) and I learned that my hair likes low manipulation not all that twisting and braiding. When I was younger my mother used water on my hair everyday and my hair was able to retain length like weeds, it was even like kimmay. But as I got older and the wash days got less and Mum preferred braids so that she didn't have to deal with daily styling and my hair was combed dry that beautiful hair of mine as a child became dry, short and snapping.

It has taken me like six or more transitions to finally understand that most of my problems were due to porosity and the fine texture of my hair. Now that I really do get it I am on my way to hair retention. My hair could never get past SL or APL without me getting some major breakage.

I truly understand other women in their quest in trying to find answers. It took me several transitions to find mine.

I feel very sorry for women with type 'one' hair that is high porosity. I had a colleague with hair like and it was also fine too that and it couldn't grow past her neck without it breaking and snapping. At least 4C hair that is high porosity, we can slap on some braids or wear it short and it looks elegant. Stringy hair that is like straw isn't attractive. It's easier to correct high porosity in curly hair than it is in straight hair.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[CocoGlow]

koolkittychick

Did you see my response to your post on the last page? You might have missed it ... it's post #79

 

[Adiatasha]

You're not dealing with any of the points I brought up (I wonder why). Instead, you focus on a statement that describes an extreme action practiced by followers of MHM specifically to produce a certain look, i.e., a DIY Jheri Curl. You do not have to go to the extremes of MHM to have moisturized hair; you do it, in Pinkie Cube's own words, to achieve the styling options available to people with 3c and lower hair, to "even the playing field." And as the poster below you stated, porosity has nothing to do with hair type; I know people with 4c hair who can get very soft, long-lasting moisture in their hair with plain water. They won't get curls, but they will certainly get moisture. So your last premise (that I bolded) is plain false.

How do they do that? Get moisturized hair with plain water? I tried that and my hair was hard. Any tips? Please post any suggestions you have to get soft moisturized hair on hair that is dry dry dry and breaking. I don't care about 3c curls/coils or Traci Ross. Thanks!!!

koolkittychick

 

[MissMusic]

MHM is about providing moisture, lessening frizz, presenting 4c's with another hair styling option and the insistence that 4c hair can be simple to detangle and keep moisturized.

I really don't understand why some want to choose to believe that 4c hair has to have no curl pattern, has to be frizzy and has to only live in a Fro. Are you just trying to be contrary? I'm thinking that is it.

I don't plan on doing MhM cause I've already discovered this about my 4c hair, but I am not gonna knock that discovery for other ladies.

 

[almond eyes]

How do they do that? Get moisturized hair with plain water? I tried that and my hair was hard. Any tips? Please post any suggestions you have to get soft moisturized hair on hair that is dry dry dry and breaking. I don't care about 3c curls/coils or Traci Ross. Thanks!!!

@koolkittychick

I know the question was not directed at me. But in my previous transitions I didn't understand why even when I did use the deep conditioners and the right leave ins that my hair remained dry and not just dry but bone dry. Even eight years ago when I read Black Women Rejoice about hair, and Brenda said we needed water to moisturise our hair I still didn't get it. I was like did she mean lots of water during wash day which I did, did she mean drink lots of water which I did? Did she mean use water only and no shampoo or conditioner which I also did too?

I figured out finally what that meant after all these years. And I discovered it when my hair was shaved and it began to grow. It was DAILY not weekly but DAILY co washing or daily mild shampoo and co wash. When your hair is that dry, you need to do your co washes daily or you need to have your spritz bottle (but when you have dry hair spritz doesn't work, you need an immersion). And you need to place your leave ins when your hair is wet so they can hold on to it and absorb it. When I co wash, I use warm water and then I let the spray from the shower really soak up my hair for at least 3 to 5 minutes. Then I put on my conditioner and place on a plastic cap. I do my thing in the shower (my body hygiene) then I begin the process of rinsing and detangling. If my hair hits a snag I just add a bit more conditioner to that area and use the stream of the hot water and detangle but not in a rough manner. The whole process takes me 15-20 minutes tops.

Now if your hair is super dry, you won't see a difference in one month, it may take two months or maybe three months but it will happen. And once your hair takes to the moisture you can then perhaps lessen the amount of days you 'wash' or I like to say 'water' your hair.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[koolkittychick]

MHM is about providing moisture, lessening frizz, presenting 4c's with another hair styling option and the insistence that 4c hair can be simple to detangle and keep moisturized.

I really don't understand why some want to choose to believe that 4c hair has to have no curl pattern, has to be frizzy and has to only live in a Fro. Are you just trying to be contrary? I'm thinking that is it.

I don't plan on doing MhM cause I've already discovered this about my 4c hair, but I am not gonna knock that discovery for other ladies.

Not trying to be contrary. Just upset that so many people have once again latched on to a scheme that feeds right into the texture discrimination debate that keeps popping up in the natural hair community, like gelling our edges until they suffocate to get the "baby hair" look, smearing Monistat on our heads in the hopes that it will grow faster, putting plastic bags on our heads for long enough to grow skin fungus on our scalps in the hopes we can get some silkening moisture in our hair, putting formaldehyde (a corpse preservative), lye (drain cleaner), and various other chemicals on our hair to alter the texture, and literally burning it off with instruments that are hot enough to sear meat, all because we can't or won't deal with it as it grows out of our heads. It gets exhausting to see sometimes.

And then, when the fad stops working (and they all do, every last one of them, except for the very few for whom they seem to work), and we BC for the umpteenth time due to the damage it has caused, we run back under the "protective styles" of wigs and weaves because we still won't deal with the hair we have, we were born with. It gets sad to watch, and especially to explain to the little black girls in your life, that when you grow older, if you have type 4 hair, you will forever be looking for that potion, spell, and voodoo ritual that will save you from the reality of your hair, instead of learning a few simple, easy techniques that will make it clean, soft to the touch, and a part of your beautiful, natural self.

 

[koolkittychick]

I know the question was not directed at me. But in my previous transitions I didn't understand why even when I did use the deep conditioners and the right leave ins that my hair remained dry and not just dry but bone dry. Even eight years ago when I read Black Women Rejoice about hair, and Brenda said we needed water to moisturise our hair I still didn't get it. I was like did she mean lots of water during wash day which I did, did she mean drink lots of water which I did? Did she mean use water only and no shampoo or conditioner which I also did too?

I figured out finally what that meant after all these years. And I discovered it when my hair was shaved and it began to grow. It was DAILY not weekly but DAILY co washing or daily mild shampoo and co wash. When your hair is that dry, you need to do your co washes daily or you need to have your spritz bottle (but when you have dry hair spritz doesn't work, you need an immersion). And you need to place your leave ins when your hair is wet so they can hold on to it and absorb it. When I co wash, I use warm water and then I let the spray from the shower really soak up my hair for at least 3 to 5 minutes. Then I put on my conditioner and place on a plastic cap. I do my thing in the shower then I begin the process of rinsing and detangling. If my hair hits a snag I just add a bit more conditioner to that area and use the stream of the hot water and detangle but not in a rough manner.

Now if your hair is super dry, you won't see a difference in one month, it may take two months or maybe three months but it will happen. And once your hair takes to the moisture you can then perhaps lessen the amount of days you 'wash' or I like to say 'water' your hair.

Hope this helps.

Best,
Almond Eyes

Simple, effective, and it works.

 

[almond eyes]

Simple, effective, and it works.

I never understood that until now!!!!!!!!!!!!!Wasted years. Anyhow when you know better you do better.

Best,
Almond Eyes

 

[CodeRed]

Not trying to be contrary. Just upset that so many people have once again latched on to a scheme that feeds right into the texture discrimination debate that keeps popping up in the natural hair community, like gelling our edges until they suffocate to get the "baby hair" look, smearing Monistat on our heads in the hopes that it will grow faster, putting plastic bags on our heads for long enough to grow skin fungus on our scalps in the hopes we can get some silkening moisture in our hair, putting formaldehyde (a corpse preservative), lye (drain cleaner), and various other chemicals on our hair to alter the texture, and literally burning it off with instruments that are hot enough to sear meat, all because we can't or won't deal with it as it grows out of our heads. It gets exhausting to see sometimes.

And then, when the fad stops working (and they all do, every last one of them, except for the very few for whom they seem to work), and we BC for the umpteenth time due to the damage it has caused, we run back under the "protective styles" of wigs and weaves because we still won't deal with the hair we have, we were born with. It gets sad to watch, and especially to explain to the little black girls in your life, that when you grow older, if you have type 4 hair, you will forever be looking for that potion, spell, and voodoo ritual that will save you from the reality of your hair, instead of learning a few simple, easy techniques that will make it clean, soft to the touch, and a part of your beautiful, natural self.

Not in a debate or anything.... and I get what you're saying....bbbbbuuuuutttt.... You must not personally know a lot of Caucasian women or you didn't grow up around a whole lot of the white population. Out off all the things you said in the bolded, they do most of them on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. And I'm talking about my blonde, blue eyed whiter-than-white friends. I wasn't even aware that most of them weren't natural blondes with straight hair until I got to know them better and know their daily hair practices.

I think more of what you're talking about is a woman thing, personally. I cannot find one woman who is truly, 100% happy with her appearance all the time (especially her hair). If we were, the beauty industry would be on life support. I know that black women have a different struggle, but speaking specifically to what you are saying in relation to the topic at hand... this is a moisturizing technique for people who thought they didn't have any other option. Much like when Caucasian women started "discovering" that you didn't have to shampoo your hair everyday (or even at all in some cases) and it could be a healthy option. There were already people doing it (washing hair less to maintain moisture - I saw black women doing it) but they wouldn't dare do it because they were indoctrinated with the notion that their hair would be greasy and unmanageable. Well, some of them started trying it, it worked. Now it's picked up steam and is actually very helpful to a lot of them. With this MHM people are doing things others have already been doing, they're just being instructed on how it might work for them. White women shampoo less to maintain moisture, 4c hair can use the MHM method to do so also. Two different things, two different sets of women, but the same goal. I don't see people trying to berate them because they want moisturized hair, because they straighten their hair EVERY DAY (yes ma'am. EVERY DAY. I only knew a couple of white women my whole life who had bone straight hair naturally), because they put bleaching agents on their hair and scalp to make it blonde (almost none of them are naturally blonde) or the countless other things they do that are harmful just to change their appearance.

Again, I know black women have a different struggle, but something like maintaining moisturized hair isn't something the be raked over the coals for, especially when I don't know of any woman who never had to find a solution to that problem. There's a reason why the moisturizing conditioners/shampoos/treatments in every line sell out before all the others

Sorry so long.

 

[bajandoc86]

It's just odd to me I guess. How do you propose to tell others why THEY are doing a particular method?

Anyone who knows me, knows I love my kinky 4a/b/c hair. I have no desire for another hair type. None. But the thought of imparting more moisture and maintaining it? That makes me want to give this method a try.

That's what I am planning to do today. If it works well, I only intend to do this once in a while.

But to say that because I am interested in this method = desiring another hair type....Umm no ma'am you can miss me with that.

 

[CodeRed]

I never understood that until now!!!!!!!!!!!!!Wasted years. Anyhow when you know better you do better.

Best,
Almond Eyes

Ain't that the truth. I was doing all these steps, buying 10 000 things and spending hours on my hair, trying to figure out why it wasn't soft and staying on my head... Well, the problem was the type of comb I was using (ripping my hair out) and using products that were too heavy for my hair. I bought a wide tooth comb and started reading labels and suddenly that decade of trying to figure everything out and spending a fortune (in time and money) seemed really stupid It was so obvious it made me want to kick myself.

 

[snoop]

I think that there are a couple issues being confused here. I feel like there's now a divide about what healthy type 4 hair should look like.

First, this is partly due to the amount of "hydration" type 4 hair needs. Up until a few weeks ago we could look at a variety of type 4 long-haired naturals and drool over their heads of hair. They looked moisturized and we were content that these levels of hydration were achievable. Pinke's method re-introduced "maximum" hydration into our vocabulary and now we're all extra excited. There's nothing wrong with that. But the discussion up until now seems to dismiss the idea that you can have type 4 hair that is hydrated/moisturized without it consisting of little ringlets.

Second, the ringlets seem to be obtained by shingling or so it seems based on Pinke and MsDeeKay's videos. So are we arguing about a styling process that people have also been doing before Pinke's MHM process?

 

[MissMusic]

Why does it matter whether someone's regimen is simple or not, as long as they get a great result? No one who has tried MHM has damaged their hair, if anything, they just didn't get the Pinkcube result, doesn't mean they didn't learn anything they couldn't take and add to their regular regimen.

Achieving a wash n go is no different than achieving a great twist out. It's just another styling option, doesn't mean someone hates their texture. If anything, MHM forces people to accept their texture and it's inherent shrinkage.

Yes, I have lived with and know many Caucasian women and regardless of hair type, we all do a lot or a little to take care of our hair, it's an individual choice. A white woman who puts a braid in her hair every day is gonna have a much lower maintenance regimen than the white woman who wears her hair straight.

I could wear an afro puff daily, but I choose to switch hair styles regularly, I consider the ability to do so a perk of my hair type and with that comes a higher maintenance regimen, and it's still simple to me .

 

[MissMusic]

I think that there are a couple issues being confused here. I feel like there's now a divide about what healthy type 4 hair should look like. First, this is partly due to the amount of "hydration" type 4 hair needs. Up until a few weeks ago we could look at a variety of type 4 long-haired naturals and drool over their heads of hair. They looked moisturized and we were content that these levels of hydration were achievable. Pinke's method re-introduced "maximum" hydration into our vocabulary and now we're all extra excited. There's nothing wrong with that. But the discussion up until now seems to dismiss the idea that you can have type 4 hair that is hydrated/moisturized without it consisting of little ringlets. Second, the ringlets seem to be obtained by shingling or so it seems based on Pinke and MsDeeKay's videos. So are we arguing about a styling process that people have also been doing before Pinke's MHM process?

I think the argument stems from the belief that 4c's cannot get defined hair and should just accept that. Evidence to the contrary means we are trying to change our texture to be like other looser hair types. Others see the resulting wash n go to be a result of following the method and having hair that is now in the best condition possible. Others believe the method has merit, but possibly it's not the 5011 steps, but specific steps that help achieve great results. I think.....

 

[ElevatedEnergy]

Sometimes folks just have to mind their hair business and allow people to do what they want to their own hair. If you don't like it don't do it. See how simple that is? You don't have to say the same thing over and over and over....the message has been received that some of you don't like it and that's cool. Now just let the people who do like it to continue to be great.

I will not be doing this method, using the vajayjay cream, inverting, big chopping etc etc etc but it doesn't hurt me that people do. See how that works? Live and let live. People learn things in their own time and trying to force something often or always negates the entire message.

 

[CocoGlow]

I think that there are a couple issues being confused here. I feel like there's now a divide about what healthy type 4 hair should look like.

First, this is partly due to the amount of "hydration" type 4 hair needs. Up until a few weeks ago we could look at a variety of type 4 long-haired naturals and drool over their heads of hair. They looked moisturized and we were content that these levels of hydration were achievable. Pinke's method re-introduced "maximum" hydration into our vocabulary and now we're all extra excited. There's nothing wrong with that. But the discussion up until now seems to dismiss the idea that you can have type 4 hair that is hydrated/moisturized without it consisting of little ringlets.

Second, the ringlets seem to be obtained by shingling or so it seems based on Pinke and MsDeeKay's videos. So are we arguing about a styling process that people have also been doing before Pinke's MHM process?

snoop

Actually the ringlets or defined coils you see on those who have achieved Max Hydration have nothing to do with shingling or the wash n go style. In fact part of the regimen calls for observing your hair immediately after rinsing out the clay treatment because at this point you can determine just how hydrated your hair has become based on how far up the strands your coils have clumped (Root to Tip Definition= Max Hydration) and how many sections of your hair have done so.

The wash n go is simply a style choice for some on this regimen but many people are still doing braid outs, twist outs, rollersets, etc. The difference is that once a person has reached Max Hydration and maintains it those defined coils are there to stay with or without gel or shingling.

 

[koolkittychick]

Not in a debate or anything.... and I get what you're saying....bbbbbuuuuutttt.... You must not personally know a lot of Caucasian women or you didn't grow up around a whole lot of the white population. Out off all the things you said in the bolded, they do most of them on a daily/weekly/monthly basis. And I'm talking about my blonde, blue eyed whiter-than-white friends. I wasn't even aware that most of them weren't natural blondes with straight hair until I got to know them better and know their daily hair practices.

I think more of what you're talking about is a woman thing, personally. I cannot find one woman who is truly, 100% happy with her appearance all the time (especially her hair). If we were, the beauty industry would be on life support. I know that black women have a different struggle, but speaking specifically to what you are saying in relation to the topic at hand... this is a moisturizing technique for people who thought they didn't have any other option. Much like when Caucasian women started "discovering" that you didn't have to shampoo your hair everyday (or even at all in some cases) and it could be a healthy option. There were already people doing it (washing hair less to maintain moisture - I saw black women doing it) but they wouldn't dare do it because they were indoctrinated with the notion that their hair would be greasy and unmanageable. Well, some of them started trying it, it worked. Now it's picked up steam and is actually very helpful to a lot of them. With this MHM people are doing things others have already been doing, they're just being instructed on how it might work for them. White women shampoo less to maintain moisture, 4c hair can use the MHM method to do so also. Two different things, two different sets of women, but the same goal. I don't see people trying to berate them because they want moisturized hair, because they straighten their hair EVERY DAY (yes ma'am. EVERY DAY. I only knew a couple of white women my whole life who had bone straight hair naturally), because they put bleaching agents on their hair and scalp to make it blonde (almost none of them are naturally blonde) or the countless other things they do that are harmful just to change their appearance.

Again, I know black women have a different struggle, but something like maintaining moisturized hair isn't something the be raked over the coals for, especially when I don't know of any woman who never had to find a solution to that problem. There's a reason why the moisturizing conditioners/shampoos/treatments in every line sell out before all the others

Sorry so long.

Not long at all. Actually, I did grow up around an incredibly racially diverse community populated by people of all stripes, including White people. The majority of White people I knew did nothing to their hair except cut and color. The ones that did were usually the rich ones who could afford the fancy perms, or the Orthodox Jewish women who wore wigs for religious reasons. They were not the majority. The overwhelming majority of the Black women I knew and know did (and do) radically alter their hair from an early age, if they wore their own hair at all. In an office I once worked at where I was one of 7 Black women on the staff, only three of us wore our own hair--and two of us were relaxed, while one woman had beautiful, waist-length locs.

You are right about White women having tried all of the things I had mentioned above, but the difference here is that their hair could take it on a regular basis, while ours cannot. Heck some of those things, like BKT and Japanese straightening, was developed specifically for their type of hair, which is why it is still big in the Hispanic community. You cannot justify doing something that you know is bad for your hair because someone else (who has different hair) can get away with it.

And speaking of adopting new ways of caring for hair, did you not notice that the method you described that is picking up traction among White women and benefitting them actually simplifies their regimen, rather than makes it more complicated, time-consuming and expensive? Is that the message that we want to send out (because it is, whether we like it or not), that our hair is such a hassle that we have to spend days and buckets of time, product and money just to make it look "presentable?" Even the Black concept of a "wash and go" is misleading and a farce to most other women; it is not a wash and go, it is a process called "shingling" that produces the effect of a wash and go on loose curly hair.

I guess I'm at the stage in life where I'm all about simplifying; if I have to actually complicate my life for an effect that is supposedly not important to me in the name of achieving something I can through much simpler means, than I call bull on what the real motivating factor is, and you should be woman enough to admit it.

I wore relaxer for years because I liked the way I looked in long, straight hair. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I would still be relaxed if my scalp would let me get away with it, because my natural hair has a 70% shrinkage rate, which is the only thing I hate about it, and I am honest enough to admit that.

If you want popping curls and a tangle-free do, then by all means go for it, but don't lie and say you are putting caustic chemicals in your hair (ACV is a mild acid, BS is sodium-based, like lye), to achieve something "good" for it that is called "maximum hydration." You're just insulting people's intelligence, and you are potentially misinforming people into trying something that could be very harmful to their hair. Be honest and informed, and don't drink the euphemistic Kool-Aid (remember how that was a fad too?).

 

[snoop]

Actually the ringlets or defined coils you see on those who have achieved Max Hydration have nothing to do with shingling or the wash n go style. In fact part of the regimen calls for observing your hair immediately after rinsing out the clay treatment because at this point you can determine just how hydrated your hair has become based on how far up the strands your coils have clumped (Root to Tip Definition= Max Hydration) and how many sections of your hair have done so.

Except that she's very specific about how the products are applied.

When applying clay mixture, try to separate your coils, don’t try to smooth your hair into one big slick slab.

Having done both ways (ie smoothing vs separating) I can say that her way encourages the clumping to the root which I'm assuming is what you want if you want to wear your hair in a wash and go.

 

[CodeRed]

Not long at all. Actually, I did grow up around an incredibly racially diverse community populated by people of all stripes, including White people. The majority of White people I knew did nothing to their hair except cut and color. The ones that did were usually the rich ones who could afford the fancy perms, or the Orthodox Jewish women who wore wigs for religious reasons. They were not the majority. The overwhelming majority of the Black women I knew and know did (and do) radically alter their hair from an early age, if they wore their own hair at all. In an office I once worked at where I was one of 7 Black women on the staff, only three of us wore our own hair--and two of us were relaxed, while one woman had beautiful, waist-length locs.

You are right about White women having tried all of the things I had mentioned above, but the difference here is that their hair could take it on a regular basis, while ours cannot. Heck some of those things, like BKT and Japanese straightening, was developed specifically for their type of hair, which is why it is still big in the Hispanic community. You cannot justify doing something that you know is bad for your hair because someone else (who has different hair) can get away with it.

And speaking of adopting new ways of caring for hair, did you not notice that the method you described that is picking up traction among White women and benefitting them actually simplifies their regimen, rather than makes it more complicated, time-consuming and expensive? Is that the message that we want to send out (because it is, whether we like it or not), that our hair is such a hassle that we have to spend days and buckets of time, product and money just to make it look "presentable?" Even the Black concept of a "wash and go" is misleading and a farce to most other women; it is not a wash and go, it is a process called "shingling" that produces the effect of a wash and go on loose curly hair.

I guess I'm at the stage in life where I'm all about simplifying; if I have to actually complicate my life for an effect that is supposedly not important to me in the name of achieving something I can through much simpler means, than I call bull on what the real motivating factor is, and you should be woman enough to admit it.

I wore relaxer for years because I liked the way I looked in long, straight hair. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I would still be relaxed if my scalp would let me get away with it, because my natural hair has a 70% shrinkage rate, which is the only thing I hate about it, and I am honest enough to admit that.

If you want popping curls and a tangle-free do, then by all means go for it, but don't lie and say you are putting caustic chemicals in your hair (ACV is a mild acid, BS is sodium-based, like lye), to achieve something "good" for it that is called "maximum hydration." You're just insulting people's intelligence, and you are potentially misinforming people into trying something that could be very harmful to their hair. Be honest and informed, and don't drink the euphemistic Kool-Aid (remember how that was a fad too?).

That's weird that you lived in a place where none of the white women straightened or bleached their hair or wear extensions. I must visit this place someday erplexed

I'm going to have to disagree with their hair being able to take that stuff. I see white women every day that defy that theory. Heck, you can do a google search and prove that wrong - starting with Britney Spears I shocked myself when I ended up on a site that was promoting extensions and all the women where white. Most (maybe all?) of their hair looked like the damaging effects of relaxing. I don't know what they did to it but most of them were blonde so that's probably a start. I'll try to find that site again. I know that for black women it's a heavier emotional experience, but what they're doing is still harmful nonetheless.


I understand that shampooing your hair less is easier than the MHM process, but the desired effect is still the same. Healthy, shiny, moisturized hair. If all the things they tried before had worked, they'd still be jumping through hoops too. It didn't work so to the other end of the spectrum they went... But a lot of them say screw it and still have crispy looking blonde hair I know a lot of black women (especially on this site) have long, long regimens with lots and lots of products. I shampoo, condition and blow dry my hair 2 - 3 times a week. After I figured out that I needed a new comb (to keep from ripping my hair out) and lighter conditioners, things were very simple for me too. What I'm not going to do, however, is try to tell someone what's going on in their head. The women on this site doing this method don't put themselves out there like celebrities to be picked apart and criticized for wanting healthier hair. I don't know not one person who is doing this MHM personally but even if I did, I'm not in her head. If I think she's doing it because she has some deep-seeded issues that go beyond hair, I'll send good energy her way and hope for her recovery. If she doesn't have those issues, I'll have saved myself from looking like a jack***

I've used ACV (still do sometimes since I'm afraid of bacteria) and baking soda when I was natural... Shampoo didn't work and I was tired of paying for it... I didn't think it was going to change my hair texture - I just wanted clean hair for cheap erplexed If someone had told me I was using Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar and baking soda because I wanted to go from 4a/b to some exotical silkiness I would've side-eyed the crap out of them then laughed because I'd think I was being punk'd

 

[koolkittychick]

Hi CodeRed,

Your siggy is hilarious!

I live in S. Florida, and the White girls here are not that concerned about being blonde, unless they are blonde naturally. They do color, but not to the point of bleach blonde. And since much of the population is Hispanic (and many of them can grow their hair long pretty easily), extensions are primarily a thing for the Black women, older White women with money, and the strippers/golddiggers in my community.

As far as what their hair can take, you have to take into consideration how much they actually do to their hair. The women who have the hair you describe (and I have met a couple and asked), bleach their hair blonde, wash and blow-dry every day, flat iron every day if they wear their hair straight, perm every couple of months if they have curls, and color every couple of weeks. And still many of them have thick, long (if straw-like) hair. A regimen like that would render most of us Black women bald.

In fact, the White women I know who take care of their hair on a schedule similar to mine (wash and condition, wear hair mostly up or in braids), even with adding a weekly blow dry and flat iron with highlights every six months, have long, silky, strong, shiny hair. Adding those extra things--even with DC with every wash--would take half of my length, because my hair cannot structurally take even that mild abuse.

I'm not trying to knock people; I just want to keep it on the real. I know creamy crack gets me the results I like for my hair by partially dissolving it--I don't lie to other people, and certainly not myself, about what that did to my hair and scalp, but I liked the look enough to do it for as long as I could. Eventually the cost-benefit ratio was more than I was willing to pay, but I never convinced myself that I was doing something good for the manageability, thickness or length retention in my hair by doing it.

ACV, clay washes, and natural gel can be beneficial to a natural's regimen--Naptural85 proves this--but doing it in the amounts recommended for MHM is not--the constant tweaking I see going on on the other thread proves this--so how can everyone say with a straight face this is beneficial to the hair other than for the purpose of achieving a certain look and display certain properties that has very little to do with how healthy the hair really is. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[CocoGlow]

Except that she's very specific about how the products are applied.



Having done both ways (ie smoothing vs separating) I can say that her way encourages the clumping to the root which I'm assuming is what you want if you want to wear your hair in a wash and go.

snoop

Yep, the application process ensures that ALL of the strands are thoroughly coated to benefit from the Clay Treatment but it usually takes months before the strands become clumped from root to tip upon rinsing the clay out no matter how thoroughly the hair is shingled upon application of the clay or gel. The application process also becomes easier & faster as the hair develops a clumping "memory" from the hydration and no longer frizzes out automatically

 

[CocoGlow]

I wore relaxer for years because I liked the way I looked in long, straight hair. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I would still be relaxed if my scalp would let me get away with it, because my natural hair has a 70% shrinkage rate, which is the only thing I hate about it, and I am honest enough to admit that.

If you want popping curls and a tangle-free do, then by all means go for it, but don't lie and say you are putting caustic chemicals in your hair (ACV is a mild acid, BS is sodium-based, like lye), to achieve something "good" for it that is called "maximum hydration." You're just insulting people's intelligence, and you are potentially misinforming people into trying something that could be very harmful to their hair. Be honest and informed, and don't drink the euphemistic Kool-Aid (remember how that was a fad too?).

I'm not trying to knock people; I just want to keep it on the real. I know creamy crack gets me the results I like for my hair by partially dissolving it--I don't lie to other people, and certainly not myself, about what that did to my hair and scalp, but I liked the look enough to do it for as long as I could. Eventually the cost-benefit ratio was more than I was willing to pay, but I never convinced myself that I was doing something good for the manageability, thickness or length retention in my hair by doing it.

ACV, clay washes, and natural gel can be beneficial to a natural's regimen--Naptural85 proves this--but doing it in the amounts recommended for MHM is not--the constant tweaking I see going on on the other thread proves this--so how can everyone say with a straight face this is beneficial to the hair other than for the purpose of achieving a certain look and display certain properties that has very little to do with how healthy the hair really is. It just doesn't make sense.

koolkittychick

I find it fascinating that the same person who openly admits to preferring her naturally kinky hair to be straight Type 1 (Relaxed) but can't wear it like that anymore due to the damage it has done is sooooooo adamantly & vehemently opposed to kinky haired Naturals who are on the MHM - accusing us of wanting Type 3 hair

Comparing damaging Relaxers to Clay, Baking Soda & Apple Cider Vinegar Rinses is completely inaccurate and irresponsible. The high pH of a relaxer is not the sole reason that it relaxes or "dissolves" the hair - companies add caustic lye and other ingredients to do that. People on MHM are not putting lye or anything of the sort on their hair. Diluted Baking Soda and ACV and Clay Treatments are actually a lot gentler for most people than even some natural Sulfate-Free shampoos out there!

Even the amount of times people apply these gentle products to their hair on the MHM is completely up to the individual. If someone doesn't want to do the initial 7 consecutive day challenge they don't have to - if they only want to do the MHM once a week, that is perfect fine- they will still hydrate their hair just at a slower pace so it doesn't matter.

Just like if someone were to discover Naptural85's regimen (who uses some of the same ingredients as MHM) and tweak it for their own hair, what's the difference? There is nothing wrong with tweaking things and it does not indicate that something is "dangerous" about the MHM.

Pinkecube put this thing together because she discovered that it helped HER Low Porosity 4C hair and she saw how similar regimens were helping others and wanted to share just like Naptural85 discovered what works for her and shared the info with others. The MHM is a guideline not a strict law and right from the beginning it included so many options for personal tweaking and continues to add more.

 

[koolkittychick]

koolkittychick

I find it fascinating that the same person who openly admits to preferring her naturally kinky hair to be straight Type 1 (Relaxed) but can't wear it like that anymore due to the damage it has done is sooooooo adamantly & vehemently opposed to kinky haired Naturals who are on the MHM - accusing us of wanting Type 3 hair

Comparing damaging Relaxers to Clay, Baking Soda & Apple Cider Vinegar Rinses is completely inaccurate and irresponsible. The high pH of a relaxer is not the sole reason that it relaxes or "dissolves" the hair - companies add caustic lye and other ingredients to do that. People on MHM are not putting lye or anything of the sort on their hair. Diluted Baking Soda and ACV and Clay Treatments are actually a lot gentler for most people than even some natural Sulfate-Free shampoos out there!

Even the amount of times people apply these gentle products to their hair on the MHM is completely up to the individual. If someone doesn't want to do the initial 7 consecutive day challenge they don't have to - if they only want to do the MHM once a week, that is perfect fine- they will still hydrate their hair just at a slower pace so it doesn't matter.

Just like if someone were to discover Naptural85's regimen (who uses some of the same ingredients as MHM) and tweak it for their own hair, what's the difference? There is nothing wrong with tweaking things and it does not indicate that something is "dangerous" about the MHM.

Pinkecube put this thing together because she discovered that it helped HER Low Porosity 4C hair and she saw how similar regimens were helping others and wanted to share just like Naptural85 discovered what works for her and shared the info with others. The MHM is a guideline not a strict law and right from the beginning it included so many options for personal tweaking and continues to add more.

Ugh. Please do the research on the science of your topic before you respond; it will save you the trouble of having to do that later.

The active ingredient in relaxers is the lye--the sodium hydroxide--which penetrates the cuticles of the hair and breaks down the protein bonds that comprise its structure--i.e., it dissolves it. Its ph is between 11 and 13, and is an alkaline corrosive also used in drain decloggers and oven cleaners. Everything else added to hair relaxers (paraffin, fragrance, oils, etc.) is to slow down the reaction of the lye and to minimize damage to the hair (and the surrounding skin and living tissues the hair is in) during the process.

Now if you actually read Pinkie Cube's site, you will find that (besides her saying you have to follow the method exactly to get the best results) the main ingredients necessary for MHM to be effective are stated as baking soda (ph 9), ACV (acid with a ph of 2.4), and bentonite clay (ph 8-9.7). They all work similarly to lye; they penetrate the hair's cuticle layer in order to expose the inner structure to the outside environment. In order to do that, they are essentially damaging the hair, as your hair needs to stay at a ph between 4.5 to 5.5 for the cuticle layer to lay flat, protect the inner structure, and be strong and healthy. Anything more or less weakens the hair shaft, which in MHM's case is to introduce moisture into the hair. So in MHM, you are damaging your hair in order to put moisture into it.

But what Pinkie Cube cannot verify (because she has not done the science) is whether the continued use of those substances will not over time strip the cuticles from the hair's outer layer, leading to permanent damage and dryness over time. This has definitely been shown to be the case with relaxers, color, prolonged use of heat, BKT, thermal wave systems (Jheri Curl), and even excessive mechanical damage, i.e., combing, brushing and rough handling of hair.

Since the ph of those substances (including ACV, acetic acid, which is caustic on the other end of the alkali scale, hence why it is used to preserve food by pickling) is too close to lye for comfort, the question of how safe it is to use these substances so frequently over a period of time definitely comes into play regarding MHM.

Again, please know the science behind what you put in your hair; just because someone told you it was "gentle" doesn't mean it is.

 

[CocoGlow]

But but but ... if diluted baking soda, apple cider vinegar and clay masks were so damaging to the hair then how can you in the same breath praise Naturals with long healthy hair like Naptural85 for using the SAME ingredients?

Have you ever heard of anyone's hair falling out because of using these ingredients? Serious question

 

[koolkittychick]

But but but ... if diluted baking soda, apple cider vinegar and clay masks were so damaging to the hair then how can you in the same breath praise Naturals with long healthy hair like Naptural85 for using the SAME ingredients?

Have you ever heard of anyone's hair falling out because of using these ingredients? Serious question

Naptural85 does not use bentonite clay as her primary source of cleansing (I believe that is still co-washing). She only uses ACV occasionally. She does not use baking soda in her regimen.

As I said, it is not the ingredients themselves per se (except for the baking soda), but the frequency with which they are used that are potentially problematic with MHM. All those substances are basically taking the place of a clarifying shampoo; that is why you have to add so much stuff after those steps to counteract the clarifying process those substances trigger in your hair. And diluting these substances (with water or otherwise) does not change the ph of them; if they did, they would not "work" in clumping curls or preparing the hair for the introduction of moisture.

All things in moderation, especially the strong stuff; that is the key that these ladies have figured out with their hair care.

 

[Guinan]

Naptural85 does not use bentonite clay as her primary source of cleansing (I believe that is still co-washing). She only uses ACV occasionally. She does not use baking soda in her regimen.

As I said, it is not the ingredients themselves per se (except for the baking soda), but the frequency with which they are used that are potentially problematic with MHM. All those substances are basically taking the place of a clarifying shampoo; that is why you have to add so much stuff after those steps to counteract the clarifying process those substances trigger in your hair. And diluting these substances (with water or otherwise) does not change the ph of them; if they did, they would not "work" in clumping curls or preparing the hair for the introduction of moisture.

All things in moderation, especially the strong stuff; that is the key that these ladies have figured out with their hair care.

Would u mind sharing your hair Reggie with us?

 

[koolkittychick]

As I said, I'm all about simplicity at this point in my life. Once a week, I wash with a sulfate-free shampoo, and DC with whatever I found on sale from a reasonably reputable line. Currently it's something from Shea Moisture that my hair does't hate. I moisturize with a leave-in that is water-based (listed as the first ingredient) and seal with a light oil, usually coconut. Every two weeks or so I will do an Aphogee protein treatment to help out my relaxed ends. I'm transitioning my WL relaxed hair (I'm six months post), so I only finger detangle and put my hair up in loose buns. I use no heat, and I air dry. I moisturize and seal about twice a week in addition to wash day. That's about it.

 

[reeko43]

Ugh. Please do the research on the science of your topic before you respond; it will save you the trouble of having to do that later.

The active ingredient in relaxers is the lye--the sodium hydroxide--which penetrates the cuticles of the hair and breaks down the protein bonds that comprise its structure--i.e., it dissolves it. Its ph is between 11 and 13, and is an alkaline corrosive also used in drain decloggers and oven cleaners. Everything else added to hair relaxers (paraffin, fragrance, oils, etc.) is to slow down the reaction of the lye and to minimize damage to the hair (and the surrounding skin and living tissues the hair is in) during the process.

Now if you actually read Pinkie Cube's site, you will find that (besides her saying you have to follow the method exactly to get the best results) the main ingredients necessary for MHM to be effective are stated as baking soda (ph 9), ACV (acid with a ph of 2.4), and bentonite clay (ph 8-9.7). They all work similarly to lye; they penetrate the hair's cuticle layer in order to expose the inner structure to the outside environment. In order to do that, they are essentially damaging the hair, as your hair needs to stay at a ph between 4.5 to 5.5 for the cuticle layer to lay flat, protect the inner structure, and be strong and healthy. Anything more or less weakens the hair shaft, which in MHM's case is to introduce moisture into the hair. So in MHM, you are damaging your hair in order to put moisture into it.

But what Pinkie Cube cannot verify (because she has not done the science) is whether the continued use of those substances will not over time strip the cuticles from the hair's outer layer, leading to permanent damage and dryness over time. This has definitely been shown to be the case with relaxers, color, prolonged use of heat, BKT, thermal wave systems (Jheri Curl), and even excessive mechanical damage, i.e., combing, brushing and rough handling of hair.

Since the ph of those substances (including ACV, acetic acid, which is caustic on the other end of the alkali scale, hence why it is used to preserve food by pickling) is too close to lye for comfort, the question of how safe it is to use these substances so frequently over a period of time definitely comes into play regarding MHM.

Again, please know the science behind what you put in your hair; just because someone told you it was "gentle" doesn't mean it is.

Please cite your sources, thanks.