Question about Ghosts and Judgement Day!!!

[tffy2004]

The other night my DH(dear husband) and I were watching tv a show called Celebrity Paranormal or something like that on VH1. My DH proceeded to ask me do I think ghosts are real? I answered Yes, he says why? I told him "I have thought about this before because I have heard in a song by Kirk Franklin and Shirley Ceasar called Caught up one of the lines at the end when Shirley is ad libing she says, "When the Lord cracks the sky we gone get up from the grave, together Jesus and I"

So if what says on that part is the truth and our spirits don't go to heaven until Jesus comes back, then where do they go until then?

I also have been wondering for a long time about Judgement Day, is judgement something that is given when you die or is that when Jesus comes back?

 

[ritzbitz78]

Great questions!! Always base what you believe in from the Bible and the Bible alone.. I will be back on the forum later and give you some answers to both the questions. (my bible is not with me right now)

in short sentance, our body (bones, skin, etc) goes back to dirt (decomposes), and our life or breath goes back to God, but there is no evidence in the Bible that our personality or who we are exists in Heaven or Hell until Jesus comes back and raises His people from the dead.

Read John 14:1-6... Jesus said he will come back and receive his believers. (2nd coming hasn't occured obviously).

"I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also." (King James Version)

Keep in touch, I will be back with more Bible verses.

 

[tffy2004]

I understand that our flesh and bones are returned to the dirt from which it came but even before I heard the song Caught up I would wonder do our souls walk around on earth or is there a holding place before we go to heaven or hell.

Does anyone else here think ghosts are real or not real, like on those paranormal shows where strange things happen in "Haunted Houses"?

ritzbitz78 thanks I will be waiting for the verses!!

 

[Shimmie]

The other night my DH(dear husband) and I were watching tv a show called Celebrity Paranormal or something like that on VH1. My DH proceeded to ask me do I think ghosts are real? I answered Yes, he says why? I told him "I have thought about this before because I have heard in a song by Kirk Franklin and Shirley Ceasar called Caught up one of the lines at the end when Shirley is ad libing she says, "When the Lord cracks the sky we gone get up from the grave, together Jesus and I"

So if what says on that part is the truth and our spirits don't go to heaven until Jesus comes back, then where do they go until then?

I also have been wondering for a long time about Judgement Day, is judgement something that is given when you die or is that when Jesus comes back?

Hi Tffy:

From what I understand, our souls will 'sleep' until awakened upon the return of Jesus. Here are some scriptures which this is based upon...that we 'sleep' in death.

2 Samuel 7:12: And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt SLEEP with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

Job 7:21: And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away my iniquity? for now shall I SLEEP in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Psalm 13:3: Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I SLEEP the SLEEP of death;

Tffy, this following scripture 'appears' relevant to the return of Jesus...

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Tffy, look at these...

John 11: 11-13: These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of SLEEP.

Then said his disciples, Lord, if he SLEEP, he shall do well.

Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in SLEEP.

Acts 13: 36: For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on SLEEP, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Note: When mention is made that one was 'laid unto their fathers", it means they died and were buried as their past generations.

I Corinthians 15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all SLEEP, but we shall all be changed.

I Thessalonians 4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which SLEEP in Jesus will God bring with him.

I Thessalonians: 5:10: Who died for us, that, whether we wake or SLEEP, we should live together with him.

Okay, here's the finish..

I Thessalonians 4:16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the DEAD IN CHRIST shall rise first.

Tffy, there are so many theories, for as humans we will never have all of the answers, only theories unless it is clearly written in God's word. Our hope is to fully trust in Jesus and just be ready, be we awake or sleep.

I love you, angel. Hugs to you. I'll be back with more regarding ghosts. The key word regarding ghosts is, "Familiar Spirits" of which God warns us to stay away from the practice of and those who practice things of the occult.

 

[Shimmie]

I understand that our flesh and bones are returned to the dirt from which it came but even before I heard the song Caught up I would wonder do our souls walk around on earth or is there a holding place before we go to heaven or hell.

Does anyone else here think ghosts are real or not real, like on those paranormal shows where strange things happen in "Haunted Houses"?

ritzbitz78 thanks I will be waiting for the verses!!

Always, always, always consult the word of God for any account of life. For if an incidence or event or situation does not line up with God's word, then we know satan is behind it.

Regarding ghosts, haunted houses, the paranormal, these occurences do exist, but they are not of God. They are moves of satan to distract, cause fear, cause confusion and to deter one from 'away' from God.

God's word says this:

"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." - Deut. 18:10-11.

Tffy there are many scripture references that support this, but this one will cover what I sense you are asking regarding the questions about the paranormal, the souls of the dead.

Tffy, this is the devil himself posing as loved ones who have passed away; or as a spirit coming to bring fear or demonic torment or even demonic awe and worship of such 'phenominal happenings.'

You see, there are those who under the guise of physics, mediums, spiritualists, who have opened themselves up to communicate with satan and that of the occult and demonic spiritual realm and it is he, satan who is influencing their actions, beliefs, and occurances which seem to have a 'wow' factor, for it is paranormal.

"Para", meaning: 'Beyond'... Paranormal, meaning 'Beyond Normal'. It's a rush, it's excitement, it captivates....And yes, that's exactly what the devil wants to do, "captivate", to separate, deceive, hold one captive, away from God.

He deceives and holds captive those who are grieving for their loved ones who have passed on. satan comes in with those who claim that they can communicate with the dead. Those in the above scripture whom God warns us to stay away from.

Now there is a term in the Bible called 'familiar spirits'. These are satanic spirits who disguise themselves as loved ones (impersonates them) in dreams and by way of a medium, spiritualist, or one who practices divination; and are only able to make themselves believable, as these familiar spirits are simply familiar with your life. Of course they know names and events, and times because the devil was right there all along viewing each event that has occurred.

These mediums (etc.) are communicating with these familiar spirits who in turn appear to have contact with the dead, but they do not.

Important Note: Do not ever fear these demonic spirits. Not ever! Jesus gave us power over all devils and believe me, satan does know his place, which is why he uses deception to gain access into our lives. But the blood of Jesus and God's word prevails.

It's when people open themselves up to the occult, it gives satan permission and access into one's life or their soul. How do people open themselves up to this? Not seeking God and God alone. As an example, this is one of the critical dangers of the LOA...The Laws of Attraction theory. It's an open door to the occult.

The entire theory is primarily based upon asking and receiving from the Universe and what the person is able to manifest, attract into their lives. However, the Universal realm is inhabited by satan and his demonic influences. As opposed to being sensitive to the Holy Spirit and to seek God's word, it is based upon what one can manifest by keeping good vibrations; avoiding negative energy, etc. This is based upon self-will which is witchcraft.

Ephesians 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Those who practice the Laws of Attraction, are attracting what satan is handing out. An open door to the occult. As innocent as it may appear, that's satan's deception to distract and to sway one away from God. God says to seek Him and no other. satan is using the disappointments, boredom, frustrations, saddness, the desire for progress and growth, to deceive one away from God and into his realm of the occult. But there are no substitutes for God. And in this life, there is only one to seek and to surrender to...God Himself. As he says in His word, let no one be found among us who does these things.

There are other open doors, but none for you to fear. For your heart is fixed upon the Lord and all of His righteousness.

There is so much to share. I know others here have even more information. I hope some of this has helped.

Pebbles and many others can expand on this with excellence.

 

[Shimmie]

I also have been wondering for a long time about Judgement Day, is judgement something that is given when you die or is that when Jesus comes back?

Here's a scripture which helps answer this question.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgement.

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:27,28.

It is my perception that we are judged after Jesus returns. The Bible speaks of the day of Judgment as though it is a day (or time) reserved after His return.

I John 4:17: Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of Judgment; because as he is, so are we in this world.

Revelation 14:7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his Judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

My personal prayer is that I am prepared, for Jesus is definitely coming back.

As I shared above, I know the other sisters here have much more to share.

Take care pretty lady...

 

[good2uuuu]

As always, Shimmie is on point. I have nothing to add here! God bless you as you search for truth lady!

 

[Shimmie]

As always, Shimmie is on point. I have nothing to add here! God bless you as you search for truth lady!

I love you angel; To God be the glory. I praise Him for His love for us.

 

[pebbles]

Always, always, always consult the word of God for any account of life. For if an incidence or event or situation does not line up with God's word, then we know satan is behind it.

Regarding ghosts, haunted houses, the paranormal, these occurences do exist, but they are not of God. They are moves of satan to distract, cause fear, cause confusion and to deter one from 'away' from God.

God's word says this:

"Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." - Deut. 18:10-11.

Tffy there are many scripture references that support this, but this one will cover what I sense you are asking regarding the questions about the paranormal, the souls of the dead.

Tffy, this is the devil himself posing as loved ones who have passed away; or as a spirit coming to bring fear or demonic torment or even demonic awe and worship of such 'phenominal happenings.'

You see, there are those who under the guise of physics, mediums, spiritualists, who have opened themselves up to communicate with satan and that of the occult and demonic spiritual realm and it is he, satan who is influencing their actions, beliefs, and occurances which seem to have a 'wow' factor, for it is paranormal.

"Para", meaning: 'Beyond'... Paranormal, meaning 'Beyond Normal'. It's a rush, it's excitement, it captivates....And yes, that's exactly what the devil wants to do, "captivate", to separate, deceive, hold one captive, away from God.

He deceives and holds captive those who are grieving for their loved ones who have passed on. satan comes in with those who claim that they can communicate with the dead. Those in the above scripture whom God warns us to stay away from.

Now there is a term in the Bible called 'familiar spirits'. These are satanic spirits who disguise themselves as loved ones (impersonates them) in dreams and by way of a medium, spiritualist, or one who practices divination; and are only able to make themselves believable, as these familiar spirits are simply familiar with your life. Of course they know names and events, and times because the devil was right there all along viewing each event that has occurred.

These mediums (etc.) are communicating with these familiar spirits who in turn appear to have contact with the dead, but they do not.

Important Note: Do not ever fear these demonic spirits. Not ever! Jesus gave us power over all devils and believe me, satan does know his place, which is why he uses deception to gain access into our lives. But the blood of Jesus and God's word prevails.

It's when people open themselves up to the occult, it gives satan permission and access into one's life or their soul. How do people open themselves up to this? Not seeking God and God alone. As an example, this is one of the critical dangers of the LOA...The Laws of Attraction theory. It's an open door to the occult.

The entire theory is primarily based upon asking and receiving from the Universe and what the person is able to manifest, attract into their lives. However, the Universal realm is inhabited by satan and his demonic influences. As opposed to being sensitive to the Holy Spirit and to seek God's word, it is based upon what one can manifest by keeping good vibrations; avoiding negative energy, etc. This is based upon self-will which is witchcraft.

Ephesians 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Those who practice the Laws of Attraction, are attracting what satan is handing out. An open door to the occult. As innocent as it may appear, that's satan's deception to distract and to sway one away from God. God says to seek Him and no other. satan is using the disappointments, boredom, frustrations, saddness, the desire for progress and growth, to deceive one away from God and into his realm of the occult. But there are no substitutes for God. And in this life, there is only one to seek and to surrender to...God Himself. As he says in His word, let no one be found among us who does these things.

There are other open doors, but none for you to fear. For your heart is fixed upon the Lord and all of His righteousness.

There is so much to share. I know others here have even more information. I hope some of this has helped.

Pebbles and many others can expand on this with excellence.

Dead on! I can't add much more to what you ladies have already said so well in this thread. I just want to add one more piece of scripture for you ladies to consider.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

Trust me, you can take the word of God to the bank! When He says that the dead no longer have a part in anything that happens under the sun, then that's it. The enemy operates in different ways and he's cunning enough to do things that manifest themselves in the image of people who have passed on. It's comforting to think that we can turn a corner and see a loved one who's passed standing there, smiling at us, but it's a trick of the devil. I used to wish I could see my dead father, but after reading all the different scriptures listed here during his passing 13 years ago, the Lord showed me that it would NOT be my father I see. So if I ever were to see him as a ghost, you best know I would remind the enemy that The Lord rebukes him!

 

[Shimmie]

Dead on! I can't add much more to what you ladies have already said so well in this thread. I just want to add one more piece of scripture for you ladies to consider.

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

Trust me, you can take the word of God to the bank! When He says that the dead no longer have a part in anything that happens under the sun, then that's it.

The enemy operates in different ways and he's cunning enough to do things that manifest themselves in the image of people who have passed on. It's comforting to think that we can turn a corner and see a loved one who's passed standing there, smiling at us, but it's a trick of the devil.

I used to wish I could see my dead father, but after reading all the different scriptures listed here during his passing 13 years ago, the Lord showed me that it would NOT be my father I see. So if I ever were to see him as a ghost, you best know I would remind the enemy that The Lord rebukes him!

Pebs! I'm so glad you came here. I needed your help big time with this post. I shared only some of what I've learned; for there are so many theories about what happens once we die and when the judgement takes place. I don't want Shimmie's theories, only the Holy Spirit.

I wanted the other ladies to jump in here and add more. As there are two other theories.

Such as:

When Paul states in 1 Corinthians 5: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", which suggests the soul goes directly to be with Jesus. And in Luke 16, those who had passed on were in the bossom of Abraham" which suggests there is a 'holding place.'

I sense that these theories need to be touched on as we have all been taught all three by many different ministries. I personally don't lay claim to any one over the other, I just want to be ready.

As for the paranormal, that's a piece of cake. We know the only true ghost is the Holy Ghost, who dwells on the inside of us; who is our comforter; and who is our Paraclique (sp?), the one who walks beside us; who leads and guides us into all truth.

Any other ghost is bogus...a demon. Not even Casper

I miss my dad too who passed on 16 years ago. I'll see him at the Rapture. If I saw him now, like you, "The Lord rebuke you, satan!"

 

[tffy2004]

Wow I really need to get in my bible and start studying. I will definately share these scriptures and posts with my husband when he gets home later. Thank you and hugs and kisses to all who posted and shared information. And Shimmie BIG BIG hugs and kisses to you!!!

 

[carpediem628]

Ladies - what about the verse that says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?

I always thought that meant that when we die, that our bodies remain in the ground, but our spirits go up to the Lord until the day that Jesus returns, at which point our spirits and bodies will be reunited.

I am not claiming that this is correct, it is just what I always believed. I'm not trying to contradict.

Please educate me.

 

[p31woman]

Ladies - what about the verse that says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?

I always thought that meant that when we die, that our bodies remain in the ground, but our spirits go up to the Lord until the day that Jesus returns, at which point our spirits and bodies will be reunited.

I am not claiming that this is correct, it is just what I always believed. I'm not trying to contradict.

Please educate me.

I was gonna ask the same question...educate me too

 

[Kalani]

Pebs! I'm so glad you came here. I needed your help big time with this post. I shared only some of what I've learned; for there are so many theories about what happens once we die and when the judgement takes place. I don't want Shimmie's theories, only the Holy Spirit.

I wanted the other ladies to jump in here and add more. As there are two other theories.

Such as:

When Paul states in 1 Corinthians 5: "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord", which suggests the soul goes directly to be with Jesus. And in Luke 16, those who had passed on were in the bossom of Abraham" which suggests there is a 'holding place.'
I sense that these theories need to be touched on as we have all been taught all three by many different ministries. I personally don't lay claim to any one over the other, I just want to be ready.

As for the paranormal, that's a piece of cake. We know the only true ghost is the Holy Ghost, who dwells on the inside of us; who is our comforter; and who is our Paraclique (sp?), the one who walks beside us; who leads and guides us into all truth.

Any other ghost is bogus...a demon. Not even Casper

I miss my dad too who passed on 16 years ago. I'll see him at the Rapture. If I saw him now, like you, "The Lord rebuke you, satan!"

My humble understanding of these verses is as follows;

Those who died in the old covenant did not go straight to heaven. I can't remember the verse but it mentioned these old saints dying "having not yet received the promise". Or something to that extent, forgive me I'm going on memory.

Then, when Jesus died he took the keys of life and death from the devil and when he rose again he brought the old saints with him to heaven. They then received the promise and everyone after Jesus' death was then able to receive it and go straight to heaven. Remember when he said to the theif on the cross that he would soon be in paradise with him?

Again, I'm no bible scholar but this is my understanding. Hope it makes sense?

 

[Shimmie]

Ladies - what about the verse that says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?

I always thought that meant that when we die, that our bodies remain in the ground, but our spirits go up to the Lord until the day that Jesus returns, at which point our spirits and bodies will be reunited.

I am not claiming that this is correct, it is just what I always believed. I'm not trying to contradict.

Please educate me.

You're right, I have questions as well. I posted this scripture you mentioned from I Corinthians 5, above. In addition to Luke 16 which suggests there is a 'holding place' for our souls until Jesus comes.

I really want the other ladies in here with this topic as there are three (3) theories which I have heard from several ministers and other Christian denominations.

No matter which one, I personally may lean to, it does not declare me as being accurate. It's still a theory based on my personal interpretation of what I've learned and understand from God's word. This subject needs the input of all of us.

Here are the three theories.

1. We sleep
2. We go meet the Lord
3. "Paradise" - a holding place where our souls remain until Jesus returns.

Here are Bible Notes for Theory #2:

Remember when Jesus was on the cross and after he said, "It is finished"? The word of God then says, He gave up the ghost (his soul).

Now, His soul did not go immediately to Heaven. There was a process taking place for our salvation, as Jesus was going through the entire redemption process of reclaiming our souls for God.

To sum things up, after He died, His soul went to hell, in place of ours and then He lead captivity captive (interpreted as the previous souls who died prior to Jesus who were in a 'holding place."

More of the process:

After His ressurection, Jesus met Mary at the grave site that He arose from. When she saw Him and reached out, Jesus said to her, "Handle me not, for I have not gone to my Father."

Quick Summary: From the cross, to the grave, to hell, earth and then Heaven.

Jesus had to present Himself to God the Father after the process of His death to present the Blood that was the atonement for our sins. This is why Mary could not touch Him. The atonement Jesus made for our sins, had to be declared acceptable by God the Father.

In Hebrew law, when one of its members was cast out; he could not be in contact with another human until he was declared clean by the Priest.

Now because of Jesus, we have all been made clean and presentable to God the Father. This indicates that our souls do go directly to Heaven when we die.

However, the Bible is still not very clear if indeed we do go directly to Heaven when we die. The question is still out there on this theory. Which then brings us to theory #3, a 'holding place.'

I'm reluctant to post more, because I really need the other ladies in here with this. I will only say that I lean more towards Theories #1 and #2.

Theory #3 deems true because it was prior to the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Ladies where are you? Get in here and please share.... I do not have the answers...only theories.

 

[dicapr]

Ladies - what about the verse that says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"?

I always thought that meant that when we die, that our bodies remain in the ground, but our spirits go up to the Lord until the day that Jesus returns, at which point our spirits and bodies will be reunited.

I am not claiming that this is correct, it is just what I always believed. I'm not trying to contradict.

Please educate me.

I've aways been taught that this passage had to do with living our lives. If we are not concerned with the things of this world and day to day living-absent from the body- then our minds and actions are on spiritual things-to be present with the Lord. We can and should be absent from the body daily and present with God daily so we can go to Heaven when he comes.

Also, I believe that the word soul and spirit have lost their biblical meaning. When God breathed the breath of life into Adam, he became a living soul. Basically your soul/spirit is our bodies + God's breath. Nothing mysterious or a third part of our being. Gen. 2:7

 

[StrawberryQueen]

Whoa Shimmie! I'm gonna save this thread.

 

[ritzbitz78]

There is no where in the Bible that says hell exists currently or that Jesus went to hell after he died.

Re: 2Cor 5:8 about absent in body, present with the Lord

It just means that the next moment someone who died in Christ will be conscious of is when Jesus comes. When someone is dead or sleeping, they don't know they are dead, their next conscious moment they are present with the Lord

The Bible teaches us to study the Bible precept upon precept, line upon line. (Isaiah 28:10)

This means the Bible's principles are shown throughout the Bible in different texts. Basing the idea of your soul/spirit still living on one text is dangerous, especially when there are so many other texts that say other wise.

2 Timothy 4:8
1 Corinthians 15:52
1 Thessalonians 4:15

to name a few

Now lets talk about JUDGEMENT...

Ezekial 9:1-9 talks about God's people being judged first, then the wicked/unrighteous will be judged

But when is judgement happening? In short... right now for those who are God's people whether living or dead.

God is looking at our lives to see if we seriously have Jesus as our Lord and we truly believe in him.

Revelation 14:7 says " Fear God and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgement is come..."

By studying Revelation and the book of Daniel (which are closely linked) God shows that judgement started in 1844 (pm me if you want even more info on this, its long but very powerful)

He is looking at our actions because faith without works is dead (James 2:17)

After judgement you get a verdict: innocent or guilty

The innocent are going to go to heaven and live eternally

The guilty are going to go to hell and die eternally

Revelation 14:12 describes those who will be declared innocent " are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus"

So basically judgement should only be scary for those who know they are not keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:12 says "And, behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to ever man according as his WORK shall be"

Out of our love for Jesus and our greatfulness for dying for our sins, our "work" is to obey his commandments and have the faith of Jesus

He says it himself, if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15)

I hope this helps, and I hope it encourages all of us to love God and keep his commandments, and stop messing around and take God seriously...

 

[ritzbitz78]

You're right, I have questions as well. I posted this scripture you mentioned from I Corinthians 5, above. In addition to Luke 16 which suggests there is a 'holding place' for our souls until Jesus comes.

I really want the other ladies in here with this topic as there are three (3) theories which I have heard from several ministers and other Christian denominations.

No matter which one, I personally may lean to, it does not declare me as being accurate. It's still a theory based on my personal interpretation of what I've learned and understand from God's word. This subject needs the input of all of us.

Here are the three theories.

1. We sleep
2. We go meet the Lord
3. "Paradise" - a holding place where our souls remain until Jesus returns.

Here are Bible Notes for Theory #2:

Remember when Jesus was on the cross and after he said, "It is finished"? The word of God then says, He gave up the ghost (his soul).

Now, His soul did not go immediately to Heaven. There was a process taking place for our salvation, as Jesus was going through the entire redemption process of reclaiming our souls for God.

To sum things up, after He died, His soul went to hell, in place of ours and then He lead captivity captive (interpreted as the previous souls who died prior to Jesus who were in a 'holding place."

More of the process:

After His ressurection, Jesus met Mary at the grave site that He arose from. When she saw Him and reached out, Jesus said to her, "Handle me not, for I have not gone to my Father."

Quick Summary: From the cross, to the grave, to hell, earth and then Heaven.

Jesus had to present Himself to God the Father after the process of His death to present the Blood that was the atonement for our sins. This is why Mary could not touch Him. The atonement Jesus made for our sins, had to be declared acceptable by God the Father.

In Hebrew law, when one of its members was cast out; he could not be in contact with another human until he was declared clean by the Priest.

Now because of Jesus, we have all been made clean and presentable to God the Father. This indicates that our souls do go directly to Heaven when we die.

However, the Bible is still not very clear if indeed we do go directly to Heaven when we die. The question is still out there on this theory. Which then brings us to theory #3, a 'holding place.'

I'm reluctant to post more, because I really need the other ladies in here with this. I will only say that I lean more towards Theories #1 and #2.

Theory #3 deems true because it was prior to the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Ladies where are you? Get in here and please share.... I do not have the answers...only theories.

Ladies, my whole objective is to point to study the Bible and give you Biblical answers. The Bible says to study the Word to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15) And many of these theories don't have sufficient Biblical evidence. If it is a principle of God, He repeats it throughout the Bible, not just once. Its like a theme or a thread that is interlaced throughout

In regards to theory 3 and a holding place called paradise and Luke 16: This story is one of the most misunderstood parables that Jesus gave. I am not claiming I know what Jesus meant, I am saying that the Bible interprets itself and that there is no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20)
Basically that means that the Bible principles and teachings don't have many hidden or different interpretations or meanings. Now there are different applications of God's word, but only one interpretation.

An example: an object, made of wood with four legs, a horizontal board on top of the legs that is about 1ft by 1ft would be INTERPRETED as a chair, and a chair is used to sit on. A different application of the chair is using it to hit someone over the head with, as a step stool... etc. But we all have to agree its a chair before we start to talk about application or what to do with the chair.

Okay back to Luke 16: This is a parable, and if you look at the parables around this one, you can tell Jesus is not talking literally here. He is using an analogy to say that if we could see the end result of our actions, we would probably live life differently.

Remember when Jesus said, Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.(John 6:54)

Now do we have to literally eat his flesh, or drink his blood? I hope not! Cause I don't think anyone did that literally hence no one would have eternal life...

Its a parable... Look at the context in which he spoke it. He is using a illustration, but don't take the illustration literally...

So theory #3 is not Biblical

Theory 1 so far seems the most Biblical just doing a search on how many times "sleeping" is referred to in the Bible, and by Jesus himself.

Again, just like Shimmie, I would like to hear other people's input and what they find in the Bible

 

[ritzbitz78]

You're right, I have questions as well. I posted this scripture you mentioned from I Corinthians 5, above. In addition to Luke 16 which suggests there is a 'holding place' for our souls until Jesus comes.

I really want the other ladies in here with this topic as there are three (3) theories which I have heard from several ministers and other Christian denominations.

No matter which one, I personally may lean to, it does not declare me as being accurate. It's still a theory based on my personal interpretation of what I've learned and understand from God's word. This subject needs the input of all of us.

Here are the three theories.

1. We sleep
2. We go meet the Lord
3. "Paradise" - a holding place where our souls remain until Jesus returns.

Here are Bible Notes for Theory #2:

Remember when Jesus was on the cross and after he said, "It is finished"? The word of God then says, He gave up the ghost (his soul).

Now, His soul did not go immediately to Heaven. There was a process taking place for our salvation, as Jesus was going through the entire redemption process of reclaiming our souls for God.

To sum things up, after He died, His soul went to hell, in place of ours and then He lead captivity captive (interpreted as the previous souls who died prior to Jesus who were in a 'holding place."

More of the process:

After His ressurection, Jesus met Mary at the grave site that He arose from. When she saw Him and reached out, Jesus said to her, "Handle me not, for I have not gone to my Father."

Quick Summary: From the cross, to the grave, to hell, earth and then Heaven.

Jesus had to present Himself to God the Father after the process of His death to present the Blood that was the atonement for our sins. This is why Mary could not touch Him. The atonement Jesus made for our sins, had to be declared acceptable by God the Father.

In Hebrew law, when one of its members was cast out; he could not be in contact with another human until he was declared clean by the Priest.

Now because of Jesus, we have all been made clean and presentable to God the Father. This indicates that our souls do go directly to Heaven when we die.

However, the Bible is still not very clear if indeed we do go directly to Heaven when we die. The question is still out there on this theory. Which then brings us to theory #3, a 'holding place.'

I'm reluctant to post more, because I really need the other ladies in here with this. I will only say that I lean more towards Theories #1 and #2.

Theory #3 deems true because it was prior to the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Ladies where are you? Get in here and please share.... I do not have the answers...only theories.

Ladies, my whole objective is to point to study the Bible and give you Biblical answers. The Bible says to study the Word to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15) And many of these theories don't have sufficient Biblical evidence. If it is a principle of God, He repeats it throughout the Bible, not just once. Its like a theme or a thread that is interlaced throughout

In regards to theory 3 and a holding place called paradise and Luke 16: This story is one of the most misunderstood parables that Jesus gave. I am not claiming I know what Jesus meant, I am saying that the Bible interprets itself and that there is no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20)
Basically that means that the Bible principles and teachings don't have many hidden or different interpretations or meanings. Now there are different applications of God's word, but only one interpretation.

An example: an object, made of wood with four legs, a horizontal board on top of the legs that is about 1ft by 1ft would be INTERPRETED as a chair, and a chair is used to sit on. A different application of the chair is using it to hit someone over the head with, as a step stool... etc. But we all have to agree its a chair before we start to talk about application or what to do with the chair.

Okay back to Luke 16: This is a parable, and if you look at the parables around this one, you can tell Jesus is not talking literally here. He is using an analogy to say that if we could see the end result of our actions, we would probably live life differently.

Remember when Jesus said, Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.(John 6:54)

Now do we have to literally eat his flesh, or drink his blood? I hope not! Cause I don't think anyone did that literally hence no one would have eternal life...

Its a parable... Look at the context in which he spoke it. He is using a illustration, but don't take the illustration literally...

So theory #3 is not Biblical

Theory 1 so far seems the most Biblical just doing a search on how many times "sleeping" is referred to in the Bible, and by Jesus himself.

Again, just like Shimmie, I would like to hear other people's input and what they find in the Bible.

 

[ThursdayGirl]

I know everybody in this thread is holy and sanctified... and all... I wish I knew the Word as well as some of the ladies in this thread. I just wanted to add something regarding the question of haunted houses.

While I agree that some manifestations are from evil spirits, there is also scientific evidence that some haunts are actually delusions brought on by mild carbon monoxide poisioning. Not surprisingin an older house. People have reported hearing voices...seeing things...hearing things..seeing deceased family members...etc.

 

[Shimmie]

Ladies, my whole objective is to point to study the Bible and give you Biblical answers. The Bible says to study the Word to show yourself approved (2 Timothy 2:15) And many of these theories don't have sufficient Biblical evidence. If it is a principle of God, He repeats it throughout the Bible, not just once. Its like a theme or a thread that is interlaced throughout

In regards to theory 3 and a holding place called paradise and Luke 16: This story is one of the most misunderstood parables that Jesus gave. I am not claiming I know what Jesus meant, I am saying that the Bible interprets itself and that there is no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20)
Basically that means that the Bible principles and teachings don't have many hidden or different interpretations or meanings. Now there are different applications of God's word, but only one interpretation.

An example: an object, made of wood with four legs, a horizontal board on top of the legs that is about 1ft by 1ft would be INTERPRETED as a chair, and a chair is used to sit on. A different application of the chair is using it to hit someone over the head with, as a step stool... etc. But we all have to agree its a chair before we start to talk about application or what to do with the chair.

Okay back to Luke 16: This is a parable, and if you look at the parables around this one, you can tell Jesus is not talking literally here. He is using an analogy to say that if we could see the end result of our actions, we would probably live life differently.

Remember when Jesus said, Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.(John 6:54)

Now do we have to literally eat his flesh, or drink his blood? I hope not! Cause I don't think anyone did that literally hence no one would have eternal life...

Its a parable... Look at the context in which he spoke it. He is using a illustration, but don't take the illustration literally...

So theory #3 is not Biblical

Theory 1 so far seems the most Biblical just doing a search on how many times "sleeping" is referred to in the Bible, and by Jesus himself.

Again, just like Shimmie, I would like to hear other people's input and what they find in the Bible

This is wonderful Ritzbitz. With so many ministries on TV, Radio, Cable/Satellite, we hear theory after theory. I'll tell you what I've noticed. Depending on the message that a minister is sharing, sometimes the theories have a tendency to change by the same minister who shared a different theory in a different message.

The truth lies always in God's word and the answers we don't have now will surely come when we see Him.

One thing we all agree on for sure when it comes to the question of 'after death', and that is we are to live our lives to just be ready.

Question: Ritzbitz, would you reconsider and post the 1844 Judgment for all to review? Perhaps begin a new thread. You never know who will benefit from it who may be unable to PM you.

There are non-members who only have restricted access and can read threads only in the Christian forum. Also members will be able to print it out and keep as a study reference.

Thank you for all of your help. Your wisdom is very rich in the Lord and a rich blessing to each of us.

 

[pebbles]

This is wonderful Ritzbitz. With so many ministries on TV, Radio, Cable/Satellite, we hear theory after theory. I'll tell you what I've noticed. Depending on the message that a minister is sharing, sometimes the theories have a tendency to change by the same minister who shared a different theory in a different message.

The truth lies always in God's word and the answers we don't have now will surely come when we see Him.

One thing we all agree on for sure when it comes to the question of 'after death', and that is we are to live our lives to just be ready.

Question: Ritzbitz, would you reconsider and post the 1844 Judgment for all to review? Perhaps begin a new thread. You never know who will benefit from it who may be unable to PM you.

There are non-members who only have restricted access and can read threads only in the Christian forum. Also members will be able to print it out and keep as a study reference.

Thank you for all of your help. Your wisdom is very rich in the Lord and a rich blessing to each of us.

I most certainly agree with you, Shimmie!

I'm grateful for Godly women!