Products That Elongate Vs. Shrink Your Water-saturated Hair?

YvetteWithJoy

YvetteWithJoy

On break
Hi, all!

Question:
I know that we all deal with shrinkage and that it's a natural part of being kinky, coily, and curly that we embrace. That said, today my hair is a miniature version of its usual self, and I know the surface reason but not the deeper reasoning behind it. Maybe folks here will know the underlying cause?

Surface reason: A few of my products ELONGATE my hair under running shower water while most of my products SHRINK my hair under running shower water. Likewise, MOST of my products shrink my wet or damp hair (when I'm out of the shower), while a few apply to my wet or damp hair without shrinking it.

Today I trialed a new product that shrank my hair. Also, before that, today I did an apple cider vinegar rinse for the first time, and it shrank my hair.

Do you know why this IS? Do you experience the same phenomenon with different products? If so, what are examples of your specific products and what are the effects of each (shrinks versus elongates)? Do you have any tips about how to avoid this shrinkage and maintain elongation so that my gel captures an elongated wash-and-go? And lastly, would you mind sharing your hair's porosity?

:thankyou:

P.S. I feel like I'm ever so gradually getting closer and closer to figuring out my natural hair! I gotta say THANK YOU for all of the help and humor and shares, LHCF!
:heart:
 
My hair's porosity: High porosity

Products that elongate my hair under shower water:
Naturalicious 5-in-1 clay, Shea Moistures High Porosity Moisture-seal Masque

Products that shrink my hair under shower water:
Just about everything else I've ever put on my hair, such as DevaCurl Decadence's shampoo

Products that do not shrink my damp or wet hair once I'm out of the shower:
Kinky Curly Knot Today

Products that DO shrink my damp or wet hair once I'm out of the shower:
Just about everything else I've ever put on my hair, such as Oyin Handmade's Hair Dew, which I loooooove for the moisture
 
These are good questions. I've never thought much about the products after washing. I usually only pay attention to shampoo.

Creme of Nature, Elasta QP and TGIN shampoos don't shrink my hair. All others do.

I'm wondering if PH matters but that doesn't seem likely.
 
faithVA said:
These are good questions. I've never thought much about the products after washing. I usually only pay attention to shampoo.

Creme of Nature, Elasta QP and TGIN shampoos don't shrink my hair. All others do.

I'm wondering if PH matters but that doesn't seem likely.
Click to expand...

In-ter-esting!!! Are you hipo, lowpo, or midpo?

And, hmmmm! Ph levels. Interesting thought!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
In-ter-esting!!! Are you hipo, lowpo, or midpo?

And, hmmmm! Ph levels. Interesting thought!
Click to expand...

I'm low porosity. Yeah I'm not sure what causes shrinkage when the hair is wet. I know oils really elongate my hair so perhaps when oils are stripped from my hair there is more shrinkage and when there is more oil perhaps I have more elongation.
 
faithVA said:
I'm low porosity. Yeah I'm not sure what causes shrinkage when the hair is wet. I know oils really elongate my hair so perhaps when oils are stripped from my hair there is more shrinkage and when there is more oil perhaps I have more elongation.
Click to expand...

:yep: Thank you for the reminder: Certain oils elongate my hair under shower water and certain shrink it, and I'd forgotten that. I wonder if it's the PENETRATING oils that elongate my hair and the non-penetrating oils that don't? I'll have to experiment.

I have been reading this very interesting and scientific article about the oils that penetrate and the oils that don't: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html

I'm starting to wonder if an increase in the amount of protein in my hair is causing my hair to coil more. And I'm wondering if that's just a part of hair health. Does more protein = greater elasticity = more shrinkage, I wonder?

 
I found an experiment demonstrating the effects of hot and cold water on hair:


Also, have you looked into the pH factor and astringency of certain ingredients?
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
:yep: Thank you for the reminder: Certain oils elongate my hair under shower water and certain shrink it, and I'd forgotten that. I wonder if it's the PENETRATING oils that elongate my hair and the non-penetrating oils that don't? I'll have to experiment.

I have been reading this very interesting and scientific article about the oils that penetrate and the oils that don't: http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/2013/06/oils-which-ones-soak-in-vs-coat-hair.html

I'm starting to wonder if an increase in the amount of protein in my hair is causing my hair to coil more. And I'm wondering if that's just a part of hair health. Does more protein = greater elasticity = more shrinkage, I wonder?
Click to expand...

More protein, more moisture, more shrinkage. In the right amounts of course.
 
Interesting thread. I know products with glycerin tend to shrink my hair. I don't really use many leave-in products, and if I do, I try to make sure they don't have glycerin.

Wheatgerm oil is one that shrinks my hair a little. It can also leave it feEling a little hard at times. Castor oil is another one that I'd say causes sone shrinkage- well it's humectant self causes my hair/ hairline to frizz.

Good moisture level gives me good elongation. Kinky Curly Curling Custard elongates my hair nicely.
 
Sharpened said:
I found an experiment demonstrating the effects of hot and cold water on hair:


Also, have you looked into the pH factor and astringency of certain ingredients?
Click to expand...


@Sharpened!!!!!!! :bighug::urock:

This video is sooooooooo helpful!

I usually wash in very warm water, but I have been very inconsistent regarding the temperature of the water I rinse with. The visual in that video is branded in my brain, and I can use this info immediately. It will help tremendously: I've been trialling all sorts of products in the hopes of nailing my regimen. But sometimes I rinse in hot water and sometimes I rinse in cool. There's no way for me to tell what the products themselves (alone) are doing to my hair if I'm varying both product and temperature. I need to use the same temperature practices every time (wash warm/hot . . . rinse cool/cold) and let only the PRODUCT or SEQUENCE of PRODUCT APPLICATION vary.

This will help my regimen-nailing efforts so much! Thanks again! Muwah! :kiss:

P.S. I have done a LITTLE bit of pH examination, but not much. And no: I hadn't even thought of astringency! Phew! There's a lot to look at, but I am DETERMINED to get this figured out for the sake of the money I'm spending and for the sake of getting closer to understanding how to achieve the hair look I love on the regular.
 
AbsyBlvd said:
Interesting thread. I know products with glycerin tend to shrink my hair. I don't really use many leave-in products, and if I do, I try to make sure they don't have glycerin.

Wheatgerm oil is one that shrinks my hair a little. It can also leave it feEling a little hard at times. Castor oil is another one that I'd say causes sone shrinkage- well it's humectant self causes my hair/ hairline to frizz.

Good moisture level gives me good elongation. Kinky Curly Curling Custard elongates my hair nicely.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! And thanks for the reminder! I have a picture of my hair styled with KCKT + KCCC . . . and it was super elongated. I hadn't thought about it, but the KCCC did NOT shrink my hair. Hmm . . . It's such a weird acting gel for me, though. I'll have to revisit it, paying special attention to what I do before applying the KCCC.
 
Here is an interesting video about pH.

Nutshell summary of the video: The pH from prepoo ---> shampoo --> conditioner should be decreasing, and this can matter more than you think because pH changes are logarithmic, e.g., a pH change from 4 to 5 is a 10-fold change in acidity. This matters for breakage, curl pattern, tangles, etc. Brands usually have their products go from higher pH to lower pH, as it should be. It's okay to mix brands, though, just pay attention to pH and try to have it go in descending order from prepoo to shampoo to conditioner. The video contains VERY helpful illustrations, images, and charts. The video shows the pH level of hair and water and common household products.

 
YvetteWithJoy said:
Here is an interesting video about pH.

Nutshell summary of the video: The pH from prepoo ---> shampoo --> conditioner should be decreasing, and this can matter more than you think because pH changes are logarithmic, e.g., a pH change from 4 to 5 is a 10-fold change in acidity. This matters for breakage, curl pattern, tangles, etc. Brands usually have their products go from higher pH to lower pH, as it should be. It's okay to mix brands, though, just pay attention to pH and try to have it go in descending order from prepoo to shampoo to conditioner. The video contains VERY helpful illustrations, images, and charts. The video shows the pH level of hair and water and common household products.

Click to expand...



Thanks for this information.

At one point two years ago I was obsessed with my PH, my water hot or cold. Now, I just have found what products and a regiment that works for me. Everyone's hair responds to different things. I cannot use cold water at all, when cold water hits my hair my hair gets dried and tangled, I cannot put cold leave in or cold conditioner on my hair. I just use Komaza products because they have the so called PH balance and say it on their products and they don't have glycerin in the leave ins which my hair does not like.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
almond eyes said:
Thanks for this information.

At one point two years ago I was obsessed with my PH, my water hot or cold. Now, I just have found what products and a regiment that works for me. Everyone's hair responds to different things. I cannot use cold water at all, when cold water hits my hair my hair gets dried and tangled, I cannot put cold leave in or cold conditioner on my hair. I just use Komaza products because they have the so called PH balance and say it on their products and they don't have glycerin in the leave ins which my hair does not like.

Best,
Almond Eyes
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I just recently discovered the Komaza website. How do you like the Komaza products? Yes!: I noticed the pH tags. What have you used of theirs? TIA!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
Thanks!

I just recently discovered the Komaza website. How do you like the Komaza products? Yes!: I noticed the pH tags. What have you used of theirs? TIA!
Click to expand...


I love them and only use their products my hair likes them. I use the vitamin reign (use once a week), califa spray moisturizer (I use this with a warm water spritz daily) and shea butter cream moisturizer (but only use that once a week), Komaza shampoo, Komaza Olive Oil Conditioner (One jar lasts me one month), Komaza protein treatment (every four weeks). Every now and then I will use the curl prep sweet butter as my leave in (but that's very expensive and again with warm water spritz)).

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
almond eyes said:
I love them and only use their products my hair likes them. I use the vitamin reign (use once a week), califa spray moisturizer (I use this with a warm water spritz daily) and shea butter cream moisturizer (but only use that once a week), Komaza shampoo, Komaza Olive Oil Conditioner (One jar lasts me one month), Komaza protein treatment (every four weeks). Every now and then I will use the curl prep sweet butter as my leave in (but that's very expensive and again with warm water spritz)).

Best,
Almond Eyes
Click to expand...

Ooooooo! You are making me want to pull the "trigger" and order samples! I'm so impressed with their offering of samples.

What do you mean by "I use this with a warm water spritz daily"? Do share! How exactly do you do it, and why (why warm water, where did you learn this, etc.?) TIA!

(I love the collective knowledge and wisdom at LHCF!)
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
Ooooooo! You are making me want to pull the "trigger" and order samples! I'm so impressed with their offering of samples.

What do you mean by "I use this with a warm water spritz daily"? Do share! How exactly do you do it, and why (why warm water, where did you learn this, etc.?) TIA!

(I love the collective knowledge and wisdom at LHCF!)
Click to expand...

Hi!!!!!

For the past year, I will put very warm water in a spray bottle and then spray on my hair and put my leave in and then style my hair up in braids. Now, if you are going out you may want to do this at night because once the air hits your hair your hair may shrink unless it has gel. My hair is fine and low porosity.

The warm water spritz allows my hair to properly hold the product's moisture. I started using this method one year and a half, I realized that my hair liked water but washing it in the shower on a daily basis was causing over saturation/over moisturisation and too much pressure on my fine strands and just putting product alone wasn't working and the infamous using extra oil on top of the leave in (LOC) was actually making my hair dry. I experimented with different temperatures of water and my hair texture only liked warm water so I stuck to that hot water was definitely a no no and cold water made my hair hard as a rock and tangled.

Best,
Almond Eyes
 
almond eyes said:
Hi!!!!!

For the past year, I will put very warm water in a spray bottle and then spray on my hair and put my leave in and then style my hair up in braids. Now, if you are going out you may want to do this at night because once the air hits your hair your hair may shrink unless it has gel. My hair is fine and low porosity.

The warm water spritz allows my hair to properly hold the product's moisture. I started using this method one year and a half, I realized that my hair liked water but washing it in the shower on a daily basis was causing over saturation/over moisturisation and too much pressure on my fine strands and just putting product alone wasn't working and the infamous using extra oil on top of the leave in (LOC) was actually making my hair dry. I experimented with different temperatures of water and my hair texture only liked warm water so I stuck to that hot water was definitely a no no and cold water made my hair hard as a rock and tangled.

Best,
Almond Eyes
Click to expand...

:love3: I looooooove this board! Thanks for sharing!
 
YvetteWithJoy said:
Here's an interesting article from The Natural Haven blog very relevant to the discussion:

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/2009/05/shrinkage-proof-to-moisturise-or-not-to.html

It's entitled "Shrinkage Proof: To moisturize or not to moisturize?"
Click to expand...
I love her site. Sooooo much information!! Too often, I find us naturalistas willing to do things with no scientific basis or benefit to them. And it helps that she's black. I also read/follow/listen to "The Beauty Brains", a duo of cosmetic chemists. They also have a forum where they answer questions regarding skin & hair care. I've had a few questions answered by them in the forum and some of the members are extremely knowledgeable as well.
 
MeaWea said:
I love her site. Sooooo much information!! Too often, I find us naturalistas willing to do things with no scientific basis or benefit to them. And it helps that she's black. I also read/follow/listen to "The Beauty Brains", a duo of cosmetic chemists. They also have a forum where they answer questions regarding skin & hair care. I've had a few questions answered by them in the forum and some of the members are extremely knowledgeable as well.
Click to expand...

:yep: Yes, The Natural Haven is wonderful. I love that such a person and site exists! Fascinating and educational. Between that blog, the GoodGuide.com, the Ingredients Dictionary at TightlyCurly, and LHCF, I'm slowly but surely figuring things out. Healthy effective ingredients, healthy hair and body products, and attention to the little things that make or break a hair care technique are infinitely more possible with these resources.

Thanks for sharing! I'll have to check it out.
 
^^^^very interesting videos. They remind me a lot of this one that Protective Princess did addressing the difference between moisturization & hydration.



These lead me to think that maybe we're just not taking our time to be certain that our hair is actually absorbing water? Also, I'm super jealous of her handheld nozzle.
 
MeaWea said:
^^^^very interesting videos. They remind me a lot of this one that Protective Princess did addressing the difference between moisturization & hydration.



These lead me to think that maybe we're just not taking our time to be certain that our hair is actually absorbing water? Also, I'm super jealous of her handheld nozzle.
Click to expand...


This is the ultimate reason I'm so interested in getting a steamer!
 
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