StrawberryQueen
Well-Known Member
What are your thoughts on this?
Pope revises 'limbo' for babies
- Thread starter StrawberryQueen
- Start date
StrawberryQueen
Well-Known Member
I feel the same. But I don't want to start drama, so I waitied for someone else to say it.alexstin said:
I was hoping some Catholic folks would come in and add their piece.
I don't understand that concept of limbo, nor the concept of Purgatory.
MeccaMedinah
Active Member
alexstin said:
Exactly ladies. I had never heard of the limbo thing; it sounds like another made up concept of theirs.StrawberryQueen said:
baby42
New Member
i was a catholic but when i was a kid and younnger i left because i couldnt get with a lot of thing that are said and this is oneStrawberryQueen said:
and that puratory that they tell you i could not find it in the holy bible and the nuns didnt say much to help me it just didnt sit well with me i didnt like the teaching on that and some other things my grandmother got up set but i think she understood me in the end but to each its own
because there is only one god so i guess any way you get to him is great
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klassykutie
New Member
I am Catholic by birth and there are several of doctorines that are in place that do not make sense to me, including this one.
Alot of things are just old and change with different leadership of the Church.
No baptisms outside of the Catholic Church are valid in the eyes of the Church either.
Alot of things are just old and change with different leadership of the Church.
No baptisms outside of the Catholic Church are valid in the eyes of the Church either.
Enchantmt
Progress...not perfection
This has always been a topic of discussion, what happens if you die as a child before you receive the knowledge of Christ. Personally, I think they will be saved. There is supposed to be 1000 years of peace after the second coming and then Satan is released again to tempt folx. I'm assuming that is to weed out folx. Just my opinion tho.
znapps
New Member
klassykutie said:
I actually used to teach RCIA classes (classes for ppl who want to convert to Catholicism), and the Catholic Church DOES recognize ALL Christian baptisms as long as the person was fully immersed and was baptised in the name of the "father, son, holy ghost" or "jesus" (b/c he is the all three). As a matter of doctrine, the Church will not baptize anyone who has already been baptized. Period. No matter how much they beg, plead and ask.
Also, regarding limbo/pergatory (same concept different names), this is a concept that originated long ago as people tried to cope with concepts of His love/forgiveness and His jealousy/wrath/etc. If you read through the Old and New Testaments you will recognize that the concept of God has become "kinder & gentler". In the OT the focus was more on wrath, jealousy and punishment, but with the NT & the new covenant w/man in the NT, the focus is His love for us and how we should love and care for each other. In the early Church, people where torn, because the Bible does not say straight out what happens to those who die "in sin" when they are too young to realize they are "in sin", people did not want to believe that babies & young children would be punished for sin when at such a young age their only sin was the original sin we are all born with.
znapps
New Member
From the 2nd edition of the Catechism (a big book that explains the Roman Catholic Faith in a Nutshell):
Article 12, sections 1030-1032:
"The Final Purification, or Purgatory"
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of thier eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned (1 Corinthians 2:9). The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire (1 Corinthians 3:15; 1 Peter 1:7):
As for certain lesser faults, we believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from thier sin" (2 Maccabees 12:46). From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them."
END
I hope that helps anyone who truly seeks to understand.
Article 12, sections 1030-1032:
"The Final Purification, or Purgatory"
1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of thier eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.
1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned (1 Corinthians 2:9). The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire (1 Corinthians 3:15; 1 Peter 1:7):
As for certain lesser faults, we believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from thier sin" (2 Maccabees 12:46). From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God. The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:
Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them."
END
I hope that helps anyone who truly seeks to understand.
I am a Christian, but not Catholic therefore I have never understood nor believe in limbo/pergatory(sp).
My faith teaches me that babies and the mentally handicapped who are not aware nor can not grasp the concept of salvation or baptism are protected by God's grace. Therefore when they die they automatically are going to heaven.
I personally would ask what about aborted babies. Are they going to heaven since they have not actually been born INTO this sinful world yet?
Also a person who is mentally handicapped and can not understand the concept of salvation and baptism at the age of 30(far from childhood), what happens to them?
I personally am not seeking a real answer for these questions since I already know what I believe but would be curious as to now the Catholic faith handles answering them?
My faith teaches me that babies and the mentally handicapped who are not aware nor can not grasp the concept of salvation or baptism are protected by God's grace. Therefore when they die they automatically are going to heaven.
I personally would ask what about aborted babies. Are they going to heaven since they have not actually been born INTO this sinful world yet?
Also a person who is mentally handicapped and can not understand the concept of salvation and baptism at the age of 30(far from childhood), what happens to them?
I personally am not seeking a real answer for these questions since I already know what I believe but would be curious as to now the Catholic faith handles answering them?
znapps
New Member
Xavier said:
No problem. I am not trying to convert anyone, just answer true questions about the faith.
As far as aborted babies, the mentally handicapped, etc. what happens to them is a MYSTERY because the scriptures are SILENT on the topic. We can try to interpret scripture (which is what I posted above from the Catechism; what Catholic priests/scholars who spend their days in prayer and interpretation have written), but we will never KNOW until we get to heaven and get to ask Him face to face. This is where FAITH comes in. Catholic teachings are hopeful that aborted babies, those too young to repent and the mentally impaired are allowed to join with Him in everlasting life, but we won't KNOW in this age.
Like most denominations, the Catholic Church tries to interpret scripture and apply it to the present situation, but the Church will not declare an answer where the Bible does not give one and where the application of scripture would be a stretch.
Short answer - We hope they get to heaven, the Word at 1 Corithians 3:15 & 1 Peter 1:7 gives us that hope, and all we can do here on earth is pray that it is so.
Be Blessed
