Pastors/Preachers/Ministers and Money? How do you feel about it?

[meka]

I just got off the phone with my sister and she was telling me about how she will never go back to Without Walls (Paula and Randy White) because she believes that they are not supposed to talk about money. She watches Paula's show on TBN and says that she talks about investing and things of that nature and she does not believe that she should be talking about that. Then she is ticked b/c she read in Upscale mag about Juanita Bynums Maybach.

So how do you feel about men and women of the gospel being rich?

I feel if they are doing the work of the Lord, then why does it matter how much money they have. People have to understand that it takes money to reach the masse and regardless of how they reach the people be it on a donkey or a Benz, as long as they are doing the work of the Lord, it should not matter what their bank account says. If Solomon was alive today, he could show them what rich is.....

 

[alexstin]

I started a thread about this in OT awhile back and I think you replied on that thread. It was an interesting thread for lack of a better word.

If they got it honestly then I don't see the problem with it. I may not agree with how they spend it but they didn't ask me now did they.


Wy shouldn't the church talk about money? Christ came to bring correction in every area of our lives.

My DH and I are in fulltime ministry and I must say you have to get to a point where it really doesn't matter what others say because someone is always going to interject their opinion.

 

[Shimmie]

I just got off the phone with my sister and she was telling me about how she will never go back to Without Walls (Paula and Randy White) because she believes that they are not supposed to talk about money. She watches Paula's show on TBN and says that she talks about investing and things of that nature and she does not believe that she should be talking about that. Then she is ticked b/c she read in Upscale mag about Juanita Bynums Maybach.

So how do you feel about men and women of the gospel being rich?

I feel if they are doing the work of the Lord, then why does it matter how much money they have. People have to understand that it takes money to reach the masse and regardless of how they reach the people be it on a donkey or a Benz, as long as they are doing the work of the Lord, it should not matter what their bank account says. If Solomon was alive today, he could show them what rich is.....

Hello Meka...I'm not sure if we have ever 'met' before, but I am happy for this moment to share with you.

First let's agree to ask the Lord to show us where this is coming from regarding your sister's feelings. It has to be dealt with, otherwise the enemy will use this to hinder her from receiving something of value from the Lord, because of her feelings. (Anger, Resentment, reluctance to 'give' will hinder).

Now, her cause is not so unjust. We have many 'Gifts' in the ministry and with so much 'slander' and the outpouring of 'bad' reports about men and women of God, it's no wonder that your sister is having feelings of discouragement.

There is a 'balance' that I believe which should be 'mastered' by those who present the word of God. For it is giving a mixed message. We are taught to harness our 'flesh' and to use restraint and to be good stewarts with our finances. Yet, we all know that not all of the wealth we see in ministry is from 'toiling the land.' I use this term guardedly, for not all are taking advantage of the earnest giving of those who tithe and give offerings.

But there is still something wrong...off balance and somehow, 'fairness' has to rule.

No judgment is being made here. These ministers have a powerful annointing and I do respect that their gifts are so mightily used of God.

This is why we must be discerning. We have to look past our feelings; our thoughts and past what we see in the natural and hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. We have to know God's intent for these ministers, we must pray for them and we must also not 'close' ourselves off from receiving what the Lord is speaking to us through them.

God bless you...

 

[meka]

Hello Meka...I'm not sure if we have ever 'met' before, but I am happy for this moment to share with you.

First let's agree to ask the Lord to show us where this is coming from regarding your sister's feelings. It has to be dealt with, otherwise the enemy will use this to hinder her from receiving something of value from the Lord, because of her feelings. (Anger, Resentment will hinder).

Now, her cause is not so unjust. We have many 'gifts' in the ministry and with so much 'slander' and the outpouring of 'bad' reports about men and women of God, it's no wonder that your sister is having feelings of discouragement.

There is a 'balance' that I believe which should be 'mastered' by those who present the word of God. For it is giving a mixed message. We are taught to harness our 'flesh' and to use restraint and to be good stewarts with our finances. Yet, we all know that not all of the wealth we see in ministry is from 'toiling the land.' I use this term guardedly, for not all are taking advantage of the earnest giving of those tithe and give offerings.

But there is still something wrong...off balance and somehow, 'fairness' has to rule.

No judgment is being made here. These ministers have a powerful annointing and I do respect that their gifts are so mightily used of God.

This is why we must be discerning. We have to look past our feelings; our thoughts and past what we see in the natural and hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. We have to know God's intent for these ministers, we much pray for them and we must also not 'close' ourselves off from receiving what the Lord is speaking to us through them.

God bless you...

You know Shimmie, I have been praying for my sister. She is due to get married in February and her fiancee is an Atheist. See the devil really knows how to do it. She has been attending Without Walls for 3 years and and could see her getting closer to God and then that man asks her to marry him and she said yes. I think she is using the excuses to not attend church. She has a son from a previous relationship and they share a daughter together. She teaches them pray before they eat etc and he has a fit, so she stopped. She wants to go to church on Sunday morning and all of a sudden, he wants them to spend time together, but of course, not in church. I am really one of the only ones in my family who believes in the power of prayer so I have really been praying that this wedding does not go through, or he surrenders to Jesus. I have been praying for my them, especially my neice and nephew b/c the last thing I want is them to not know Christ.

 

[Sweet C]

I believe your sister is saying this to hide from the fact that her fiancee has convinced her not to go to church. I don't see how someone could go to a church for 3 years, and then have a problem with their spiritual leaders talking about money all of a sudden cause I am quite sure that in the past 3 years, Randy or Paula has talked about money before now. And even before then, Christ dealt with it in the scripture.

A little offtopic, but have you shared with your sister the Word about being unequally yoked?

 

[alexstin]

Hello Meka...I'm not sure if we have ever 'met' before, but I am happy for this moment to share with you.

First let's agree to ask the Lord to show us where this is coming from regarding your sister's feelings. It has to be dealt with, otherwise the enemy will use this to hinder her from receiving something of value from the Lord, because of her feelings. (Anger, Resentment, reluctance to 'give' will hinder).

Now, her cause is not so unjust. We have many 'Gifts' in the ministry and with so much 'slander' and the outpouring of 'bad' reports about men and women of God, it's no wonder that your sister is having feelings of discouragement.

There is a 'balance' that I believe which should be 'mastered' by those who present the word of God. For it is giving a mixed message. We are taught to harness our 'flesh' and to use restraint and to be good stewarts with our finances. Yet, we all know that not all of the wealth we see in ministry is from 'toiling the land.' I use this term guardedly, for not all are taking advantage of the earnest giving of those who tithe and give offerings.

But there is still something wrong...off balance and somehow, 'fairness' has to rule.

No judgment is being made here. These ministers have a powerful annointing and I do respect that their gifts are so mightily used of God.

This is why we must be discerning. We have to look past our feelings; our thoughts and past what we see in the natural and hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. We have to know God's intent for these ministers, we must pray for them and we must also not 'close' ourselves off from receiving what the Lord is speaking to us through them.

God bless you...

This is completely how I feel. DH and I have had this talk or than once. I do think there's a balance but everyone has to find what it is in their lives.

 

[Shimmie]

You know Shimmie, I have been praying for my sister. She is due to get married in February and her fiancee is an Atheist. See the devil really knows how to do it. She has been attending Without Walls for 3 years and and could see her getting closer to God and then that man asks her to marry him and she said yes. I think she is using the excuses to not attend church. She has a son from a previous relationship and they share a daughter together. She teaches them pray before they eat etc and he has a fit, so she stopped. She wants to go to church on Sunday morning and all of a sudden, he wants them to spend time together, but of course, not in church. I am really one of the only ones in my family who believes in the power of prayer so I have really been praying that this wedding does not go through, or he surrenders to Jesus. I have been praying for my them, especially my neice and nephew b/c the last thing I want is them to not know Christ.

Meka, the Holy Spirit so amazing. Now we know the 'root' cause or actually the method that the enemy is using 'against' your sister.

May I share this? In order to pull this up and out, we have to acknowledge this one fact. There is always an element of truth or a 'cause' (be it true or untrue) about doubt and suspicions. What am I saying? Some or in part of what your sister believes is true about ministries. (I'm guarding my words, so as not to implicate any one or those is particular).

To effectively come against this issue and to tear down its effectiveness, we have to acknowledge that there is a just cause for what she feels and believes which is ministry related. In other words, we cannot be in denial that 'something' is out of order. The devil will always use an element of truth to be effective in his deceptions. It's a perfect strategy.

Therefore, we acknowledge that there is an imbalance in many of the ministries we see ...and unless we do acknowledge this, we've lost your sister forever. How do we treat a symptom unless we know it's cause?

Your sister has to realize that no ministry is perfect other than that of Jesus, Himself. It's we who are called to 'follow' Him, not Him follow us.

With that in mind, we are not putting up a defense to her offense. We'll just keep 'butting heads' until our horns are no longer effective. We'll lose our ground.

Okay, next we have to realize this. A woman naturally 'yields' to the man that she loves. Even when he's wrong, a woman's nature is to yield to his desires. However, there is a safety net and a harness (if you will) that we also have in our favor...Hmmmmmm, The Holy Spirit... He, the same Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead who dwells so richly with in us.

So you see, you do not need Paula and Randy White to pull her back in. God has her and He is 'yoked' to her. Will He not leave the 90 and 9, seeking after the 'one'? Will He not allow anyone to 'pluck' her out of His hands? Is she not engraved upon the palms of His hands...the hands pierced with nail prints...no, your sister is not one whom He can forget.

The enemy cannot have her! Goodness and Mercy has been assigned to follow her all the days of her life and in the Lord she shall dwell. And in the name of Jesus as Lot did so follow Abraham, uninvited to come out from among his kindred...so shall this man, to whom she has given herself, follow and stay he will to the Glory of God our Father.

Meka, speak not another word, not be grieved by the lie of the enemy for we agree for the Holy Spirit to move upon their entire household and within and upon their hearts, setting them both completely free.

And Meka, there isn't a thing that the devil can do about it.

In Jesus' name, Amen and Amen... To God be the Glory...

Hugs to you, Angel.

 

[Shimmie]

This is completely how I feel. DH and I have had this talk or than once. I do think there's a balance but everyone has to find what it is in their lives.

I 'hear' you Pastor Alexstin...it's so much of a challenge. Ministry does not come as easy as slicing smooth creamy butter with a warm knife. It's more like slicing bricks with a feather.

The heart of a pure Pastor are the feathers and they have to go through bricks just to answer the call. As ministers we are expected to be 'nice' about any and every heavy brick that hits us. But Praise God for Isaiah 45...for He makes all the high places low and crushes into dust the gates of iron.

And praise God even more for His armour...especially the 'Shield of Faith' for those hard old bricks. Gee whiz, I broken my fingernails one time too many 'blocking' them. And I'm just sitting in the 'Amen' section.

Bless you , angel...

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

What's next..."BET's new show... Bobby Jones Presents CHRISTIAN CRIBS
I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of seeing Rev Jebadiah Jacobs and his first lady Missy welcome the camera in with a toothy grin and giving a tour of their mansion.
" Heres our holy water fountain, over there is our pool shaped like the holy cross.. oh look at Jr getting ready to high dive. Hasnt God blessed us ? . Next we have our 5 cars. 4 jaguars, and an Expedition. I call the 4 Jags, 'Moses, Aaron, Noah and Lot', for they were SWIFT to carry the word out. Oh? the expedition? I call it 'Judas' Mm hmmm for obvious reasons.It's a lemon..never did think much for american cars... "

But seriously, I have always regarded a pastor as a humble servant of God, taking only what is needed instead of overindulgance. His dedication and humility setting the example for his congregation. Quite frankly, I've never liked the idea of today's pastors and their pursuit of money. There is nothing that says a pastor cant have a mansion or make 3- 4 million dollars but when I read the bible, I dont see many (if any) examples of anyone who was chosen by God to spread his word , became really wealthy and preached about money all the time.

We used to sow seeds with prayer and worship, now we sow them with envelopes with $50-$100 in them?.. What is that about?

The last straw for me was when the church told us it was the first lady's birthday and to make the checks out in the the first lady's name... not her foundation.. her name.

I think I would have fell out if the check was cashed and then sent back to me and Id seen her fingerprint and her signature on the back LOL. Hmm maybe I'd sell it on ebay as an autographed memorabilia.LOL.

 

[pebbles]

What's next..."BET's new show... Bobby Jones Presents CHRISTIAN CRIBS
I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of seeing Rev Jebadiah Jacobs and his first lady Missy welcome the camera in with a toothy grin and giving a tour of their mansion.
" Heres our holy water fountain, over there is our pool shaped like the holy cross.. oh look at Jr getting ready to high dive. Hasnt God blessed us ? . Next we have our 5 cars. 4 jaguars, and an Expedition. I call the 4 Jags, 'Moses, Aaron, Noah and Lot', for they were SWIFT to carry the word out. Oh? the expedition? I call it 'Judas' Mm hmmm for obvious reasons.It's a lemon..never did think much for american cars... "

But seriously, I have always regarded a pastor as a humble servant of God, taking only what is needed instead of overindulgance. His dedication and humility setting the example for his congregation. Quite frankly, I've never liked the idea of today's pastors and their pursuit of money. There is nothing that says a pastor cant have a mansion or make 3- 4 million dollars but when I read the bible, I dont see many (if any) examples of anyone who was chosen by God to spread his word , became really wealthy and preached about money all the time.

We used to sow seeds with prayer and worship, now we sow them with envelopes with $50-$100 in them?.. What is that about?

The last straw for me was when the church told us it was the first lady's birthday and to make the checks out in the the first lady's name... not her foundation.. her name.

I think I would have fell out if the check was cashed and then sent back to me and Id seen her fingerprint and her signature on the back LOL. Hmm maybe I'd sell it on ebay as an autographed memorabilia.LOL.

BWAHAAAHAAAAAA!!!! Christian Cribs!! Good gracious!! LOL!!

 

[Shimmie]

What's next..."BET's new show... Bobby Jones Presents CHRISTIAN CRIBS
I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of seeing Rev Jebadiah Jacobs and his first lady Missy welcome the camera in with a toothy grin and giving a tour of their mansion.
" Heres our holy water fountain, over there is our pool shaped like the holy cross.. oh look at Jr getting ready to high dive. Hasnt God blessed us ? . Next we have our 5 cars. 4 jaguars, and an Expedition. I call the 4 Jags, 'Moses, Aaron, Noah and Lot', for they were SWIFT to carry the word out. Oh? the expedition? I call it 'Judas' Mm hmmm for obvious reasons.It's a lemon..never did think much for american cars... "

But seriously, I have always regarded a pastor as a humble servant of God, taking only what is needed instead of overindulgance. His dedication and humility setting the example for his congregation. Quite frankly, I've never liked the idea of today's pastors and their pursuit of money. There is nothing that says a pastor cant have a mansion or make 3- 4 million dollars but when I read the bible, I dont see many (if any) examples of anyone who was chosen by God to spread his word , became really wealthy and preached about money all the time.

We used to sow seeds with prayer and worship, now we sow them with envelopes with $50-$100 in them?.. What is that about?

The last straw for me was when the church told us it was the first lady's birthday and to make the checks out in the the first lady's name... not her foundation.. her name.

I think I would have fell out if the check was cashed and then sent back to me and Id seen her fingerprint and her signature on the back LOL. Hmm maybe I'd sell it on ebay as an autographed memorabilia.LOL.

Oh Dear, you are truly on a roll...

Regarding your opening scenerio, I have something to show you.

My cousin sent this (attached pics) to my email a few weeks ago; pictures of a 'house'...I'm not posting any names. It's no one mentioned in this thread.

I'm not mad about it; I don't and will never have a problem with anyone being blessed. Hey, it's high time; especially for those who have really towed the call. I don't have a problem being a financial blessing to someone. It's God's order; I'm yielded to obedience. We do indeed reap when we sow. I live it.

* sign* But something is out of balance and that's where I have to 'draw a 'circle' around my decisions and not only be discerning, but keep my focus even more where it belongs.

*Bigger sigh* I do have something in my 'craw' though. However, I don't want to take this too far nor either out of proportion ... especially not in a public forum.

* Lonngggger sigh* It's just that some things like this grieve me...when it affects the faith of other believers...

My 'craw' is shut... Too many *sighs* For now, I'll just sit quietly in my little Amen corner and drink my "Holy Water" (crystal wine glass with my grown-up drink, "Perrier") ...

Jesus is STILL Lord and I love Him and I trust Him...Amen.

 

[alexstin]

What's next..."BET's new show... Bobby Jones Presents CHRISTIAN CRIBS
I'm rolling my eyes at the thought of seeing Rev Jebadiah Jacobs and his first lady Missy welcome the camera in with a toothy grin and giving a tour of their mansion.
" Heres our holy water fountain, over there is our pool shaped like the holy cross.. oh look at Jr getting ready to high dive. Hasnt God blessed us ? . Next we have our 5 cars. 4 jaguars, and an Expedition. I call the 4 Jags, 'Moses, Aaron, Noah and Lot', for they were SWIFT to carry the word out. Oh? the expedition? I call it 'Judas' Mm hmmm for obvious reasons.It's a lemon..never did think much for american cars... "

But seriously, I have always regarded a pastor as a humble servant of God, taking only what is needed instead of overindulgance. His dedication and humility setting the example for his congregation. Quite frankly, I've never liked the idea of today's pastors and their pursuit of money. There is nothing that says a pastor cant have a mansion or make 3- 4 million dollars but when I read the bible, I dont see many (if any) examples of anyone who was chosen by God to spread his word , became really wealthy and preached about money all the time.

We used to sow seeds with prayer and worship, now we sow them with envelopes with $50-$100 in them?.. What is that about?

The last straw for me was when the church told us it was the first lady's birthday and to make the checks out in the the first lady's name... not her foundation.. her name.

I think I would have fell out if the check was cashed and then sent back to me and Id seen her fingerprint and her signature on the back LOL. Hmm maybe I'd sell it on ebay as an autographed memorabilia.LOL.

We serve the Lord but we are not His servants. Jesus is my saviour by circumstance but my brother by birthright. We are friends of God and joint heirs with Christ. Being that my Father(the King) owns the world and all that is in it I don't have a problem with His kids having financial blessing.

From what I've read Heaven is a beautiful place and Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father enjoying it right now. Since Jesus came to restore us to the Kingdom and God is all about influencing the earth with the culture of Heaven when should financial blessings be bestowed on the believer? It can't be when we get to heaven as that's just a temporary stop. All believers will eventually rule over a new earth. Is it then and only then that we partake of all the blessings of the Kingdom?

The problem in stating that something is overindulgence is that it is all relative. I may have no problem spending $40 on a pair of shoes but the person beside me buys all their shoes from a thrift store and says anything over $5 is wasteful.

Where does it end?

 

[Shimmie]

We serve the Lord but we are not His servants. Jesus is my saviour by circumstance but my brother by birthright. We are friends of God and joint heirs with Christ. Being that my Father(the King) owns the world and all that is in it I don't have a problem with His kids having financial blessing.

From what I've read Heaven is a beautiful place and Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father enjoying it right now. Since Jesus came to restore us to the Kingdom and God is all about influencing the earth with the culture of Heaven when should financial blessings be bestowed on the believer? It can't be when we get to heaven as that's just a temporary stop. All believers will eventually rule over a new earth. Is it then and only then that we partake of all the blessings of the Kingdom?

The problem in stating that something is overindulgence is that it is all relative. I may have no problem spending $40 on a pair of shoes but the person beside me buys all their shoes from a thrift store and says anything over $5 is wasteful.

Where does it end?

Pastor Alexstin... Why you wanna' talk about my shoes....?

Just kidding...

Love you, angel...

 

[alexstin]

Pastor Alexstin... Why you wanna' talk about my shoes....?

Just kidding...

Love you, angel...

Are you overindulging, Shimmie?

Seriously, I won't tell you how many shoes and handbags I have.

 

[Shimmie]

Are you overindulging, Shimmie?

Seriously, I won't tell you how many shoes and handbags I have.

(I did pay my 'tides' (lol) first )

 

[BlkManWithSomeSense]

We serve the Lord but we are not His servants. Jesus is my saviour by circumstance but my brother by birthright. We are friends of God and joint heirs with Christ. Being that my Father(the King) owns the world and all that is in it I don't have a problem with His kids having financial blessing.

From what I've read Heaven is a beautiful place and Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father enjoying it right now. Since Jesus came to restore us to the Kingdom and God is all about influencing the earth with the culture of Heaven when should financial blessings be bestowed on the believer? It can't be when we get to heaven as that's just a temporary stop. All believers will eventually rule over a new earth. Is it then and only then that we partake of all the blessings of the Kingdom?

The problem in stating that something is overindulgence is that it is all relative. I may have no problem spending $40 on a pair of shoes but the person beside me buys all their shoes from a thrift store and says anything over $5 is wasteful.

Where does it end?

Why must there be a mandate for something like this? This should be a decision of the heart, not scripture. Is a 2 million dollar really necessary? A $500,000 car really necessary. Pastors constantly advise their congregations about the example they make about themselves, what impression are they making for young kids. They dont want kids to be materialistic, yet custom suits, million dollar houses and cars wont leave that impression? Not only have priorities changed but the rhetoric has as well. No more prayer blessings, now it's MONEY blessings? The church is the rock and if all it's focused on is maximizing wealth potential then a travesty is being done.

Relativity has it's limits and it shouldnt take upset church members or the Gov't to change policy . Theres a lot of things I COULD do but I dont because i have the self discipline to control my desires if I feel they contridict the beliefs I am relating. I understand what you're saying and I respect it but I feel better discretion could be used.

 

[crlsweetie912]

Ok, I have seen this debate over and over. I don't think that money is the real issue here. I think that people get "jealous" (some people) because they don't have what the pastor has. Why would I feel threatened if my pastor is serving God and running a ministry with God's design in mind? Shoot, I wouldn't want to associate myself with anyone who isn't doing something positive and seeing the fruits of his/her hard work.

My pastor is a great example. He has pastored our church for 21 years. Our church started in a store front. This is our church now.

We have built this building, using no bank financing and enlarged it, and built a school! Our pastor works VERY HARD! And I think he deserves his reward. He also puts out an annual report EVERY year. And everyone gets to see it. We only take offerings or gifts for him on founders day and sometimes on the church's anniversary. His 62nd birthday was this year and his wife gave him a party and sold tickets. It was a lovely affair. She used the ticket money to go towards a new car for him (mercedes). So all the money that went to entertainment, food, the hall, etc came out of HER POCKET! I love my pastor and I know that the blessings that he has experienced will trickle down to me, IF, I am patient, heed God's word, and follow his ordinances. Just my humble opinion!

 

[Shimmie]

Ok, I have seen this debate over and over. I don't think that money is the real issue here. I think that people get "jealous" (some people) because they don't have what the pastor has. Why would I feel threatened if my pastor is serving God and running a ministry with God's design in mind? Shoot, I wouldn't want to associate myself with anyone who isn't doing something positive and seeing the fruits of his/her hard work.

My pastor is a great example. He has pastored our church for 21 years. Our church started in a store front. This is our church now.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j140/crlsweetie912/79f312a6.jpg


We have built this building, using no bank financing and enlarged it, and built a school! Our pastor works VERY HARD! And I think he deserves his reward. He also puts out an annual report EVERY year. And everyone gets to see it. We only take offerings or gifts for him on founders day and sometimes on the church's anniversary.

His 62nd birthday was this year and his wife gave him a party and sold tickets.

It was a lovely affair. She used the ticket money to go towards a new car for him (mercedes).

So all the money that went to entertainment, food, the hall, etc came out of HER POCKET! I love my pastor and I know that the blessings that he has experienced will trickle down to me, IF, I am patient, heed God's word, and follow his ordinances. Just my humble opinion!

Hi Crlsweetie:

This is where I'm grieved. It's not always about jealousy. We've been blinded by too much materialism in the Church.

When my son and daughter were growing up, they wanted all 'name brands' just like their friends. Though I love my children and want them blessed with the best and to be happy, a line had to be drawn somewhere. It must!

Because what we lead, others will follow....and desire.

Do you know how many ministries and followers are going 'broke' because of 'trying' to keep up with the "We're supposed to be blessed with the best" mentality. It has gone overboard.

Angel, I'm not discrediting your Pastor, I'm impressed with his faithfullness and growth and YES, they do deserve to be blessed with nice things and the best...but why a Mercedes? What were tickets sold?

And please, please do not take this as a judgment call. I know your heart so this is not about you...

Angel, while it's nice, the wrong message is being presented to the body. For we are still catering to the flesh. We are. AND I am guilty. I'll be the first to admit that I want and do have nice things. But I still have to set and live within limits. What I do have are several years of accumulation and also taking care of what God has given me. I don't have to have it all new and priced to limit.

I'm the first to support the ministry. I've been personally involved with them for over 24 years...(acutually Oct 21, was year 24). I've been active in many roles of the ministry from the office assistant to teaching to special events and designs, and more. So have my children.

And I have seen too much imbalance....I listened to the ministers and the mininster wives. Where is Jesus? Where is Ministry? Where is heart of proper and proportionate stewartship.

I've been there with the requests for offereings for million dollar house down payment...

I don't want to go here....I've seen so much and it grieves me.

I love you Crlsweetie. I'm not speaking of you. You know that. But there is more truth that we need to face up to in all ministries. We need to get it right...

All my love to you and those handsome sons of yours...

 

[crlsweetie912]

Ok, I totally agree with you Shimmie that some of the pastors are going waaay overboard. I forgot to add that this was our pastor's first car in 7+ years. He is really not like that. I have witnessed first hand people that are all about money and material things. There are SEVERAL in the Baltimore area alone. He isn't one of them. He just (I mean last Sunday) gave away 100+ dollars to 9 members who came up for prayer. He does this on the regular. He has bought cars for single moms who needed transportation, he has paid rent for people who were about to be evicted. OUT OF HIS OWN MONEY! He really is a giver, not a taker!
No offense taken Shimmie!

 

[alexstin]

Why must there be a mandate for something like this? This should be a decision of the heart, not scripture. Is a 2 million dollar really necessary? A $500,000 car really necessary. Pastors constantly advise their congregations about the example they make about themselves, what impression are they making for young kids. They dont want kids to be materialistic, yet custom suits, million dollar houses and cars wont leave that impression? Not only have priorities changed but the rhetoric has as well. No more prayer blessings, now it's MONEY blessings? The church is the rock and if all it's focused on is maximizing wealth potential then a travesty is being done.

Relativity has it's limits and it shouldnt take upset church members or the Gov't to change policy . Theres a lot of things I COULD do but I dont because i have the self discipline to control my desires if I feel they contridict the beliefs I am relating. I understand what you're saying and I respect it but I feel better discretion could be used.

I'm just saying that no matter how much you spend it's probably going to be a stumbling block to someone. I wonder what people said about Solomon during his time? Honestly, I read about the temple of the Lord and it seems extreme to me but it was what God wanted. Let's not forget that the message of the kingdom(which Jesus came to restore) did not start with the New Testament.

 

[ShaniKeys]

hate it especially what's going on in Africa, sad sad sad

 

[Shimmie]

Ok, I totally agree with you Shimmie that some of the pastors are going waaay overboard. I forgot to add that this was our pastor's first car in 7+ years. He is really not like that. I have witnessed first hand people that are all about money and material things. There are SEVERAL in the Baltimore area alone. He isn't one of them. He just (I mean last Sunday) gave away 100+ dollars to 9 members who came up for prayer. He does this on the regular. He has bought cars for single moms who needed transportation, he has paid rent for people who were about to be evicted. OUT OF HIS OWN MONEY! He really is a giver, not a taker!
No offense taken Shimmie!

Hey, You know I hear you on this one. Hey, I'd give the world to my Pastor. He and his wife are not only my Pastors but also my dearest friends. They're just who they are, humble and I love them.

Crls, I'd give them a 'million' dollars if I had it to give. And that's not an exaggeration. There are many ministries that have and do 'tow the call'. And God does want to see them blessed.

But we see far too much extravaganst in ministry today. Way too overboard. And when the well sinks low, a cry for funds are made, making 'us' the 'Body', the ones who pay for it.

The Whole Entire Purpose for Giving is to Further the Kingdom of God...to finance the spreading of the Gospel and to support those who have needs. YES, we are to support and bless our ministers, and I love to bless my Pastors abundantly on their birthdays, holidays, their personal wedding anniversary (you know me and weddings my ministry gift), and also giving them a 'just because I love you', gift.

Hey, I do it with my family and friends. And as my babygirl says, it all comes full circle. Our love and gifts for each other just keeps giving back to us. But the sole intent to give is because I am expressing my love for someone. And Crlsweetie, I love to love. I love loving and giving.

But here's my issue with too many ministries today. Live what you preach.

Don't pulpit me during offering time with any of the following,

- Believe God...
- The measure you meet is the measure you receive...
- Don't pull out "George Washington's"
- You better obey the Holy Spirit and give (Gee whiz, just hit us with a bat).
- If you don't give you could be missing out on your needs being met. (Good grief - Charlie Brown)
- Okay, we need to take up another offering

Here's the problem, they are not living by the same principles. 'We've' made it too easy for them, by falling into the 'fear' mode and giving and giving and while 'our' needs have gone unmet, theirs are. Where was their faith put into action?

I started out with much zeal in giving, but God had to settle me down and make me LOOK at the real principles and put them into practice and not feed into those of greed and foolishness with money management in too many ministries. I had a crude and rude awakening with how to handle my finances with giving. I was 'out' there and had to come down for a serious landing. My 'seed' were scattered too far and wide. And not a blessing to be found. I was my own worse enemy and I did suffer for it.

There's so much about this that I could share. Yes, we are to give. I'd be a fool not to. And yes, the tithe is the Lord's and I'm not a fool about that.

But there is still a serious imbalance in the Church and I have a big 'craw' about this. Too many precious hearts are being hood-winked. And while we see them grow and 'prosper' (Ah hem - sorry, Shimmie clears throat) Well, how many houses does one need to live in?

You would not believe how many faithful employees in the ministry whose salaries are minimized and/or not paid... and they are told to 'live by faith'....

I'm backing off of this for now...

Crlsweetie, it's just that I know some things. That's all. I know a little too much and it breaks my heart to see this happening in the life that we love so much...living the life of Jesus Christ.

Love you, much...

 

[Shimmie]

I'm just saying that no matter how much you spend it's probably going to be a stumbling block to someone. I wonder what people said about Solomon during his time? Honestly, I read about the temple of the Lord and it seems extreme to me but it was what God wanted. Let's not forget that the message of the kingdom(which Jesus came to restore) did not start with the New Testament.

I 'hear' you, Pastor Alexstin. But today so many ministries have taken this out of text.

I'm not saying you have...I 'know' your heart. But what happens is that the actions of others make it look bad for those who are living right.