Pastoral/ Leadership Credibility

[music-bnatural-smile]

IYO, what dictates credibility as a pastor/ church leader?

To me its a combination of 2... Lifestyle and Education. I want my pastor to have an education, and I want to see that he is continuing the education... Seeking a master's, doctoral degree, etc. Mine has the PHD

My pastor spoke about Shadrach, Meshach, and A-bad-negro lachen: couldn't help myself) and how the king desired them in his company because of their desire for education, and how important it is for Christians to stay educated.

This to me is something that is so overlooked in the church. I personally don't understand how people can trust someone who hasn't invested in their desire to lead and teach.

I also need to see fruit from a pastor. To me if your church isn't growing, then the pastor is NOT doing the right thing... Esp. when I see things like misspellings in the program, lack of technology, lack of ministries... To me it just seems like there is something wrong... At my church I have seen the congregation go from minitature to very large, and we are always building additions to our new church, and building a school/community center... Which I think is just awesome. I am thinking about moving and I am scared I won't find this again, cuz to me it is so rare...

Also when I look at my pastor... his family is a living example. They are all meek, humble, and kind people... They have normal issues (nothing major, just personality things), and they are transparent about their faults, yet they are careful to remain examples for all of us... I that... They truly practice what they preach.

What does it take for you to deem a pastor or leader as credible?

 

[Ramya]

I look for fruit.

If his own family doesn't like him or support him, chances are his church persona doesn't match his home persona. RED FLAG!

If he can't apologize when he misses it and take responsibility for his actions, he lacks integrity. RED FLAG!

If there is no progress that probably means that he's acting without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is involved there will always be fruit.

If he doesn't genuinely like/love people then he has no business in the pulpit.

If he feels that he is the dictator of the church and is never held accountable for his actions, that's a no.

Personal Preferences:
I prefer a male pastor
I prefer teaching to preaching
I prefer my pastor to be married
I prefer a pastor who writes and speaks well regardless of education
I prefer a pastor to be transparent and humble.
I EXPECT him to teach the word of God and apply it to today.
I EXPECT my pastor to operate at the highest level of excellence and integrity.

 

[Prudent1]

Here is what I look for in a spiritual leader.

1 Tim 3:1-7
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

You are right we do know the tree by the fruit it bears. If you cannot see tangible growth first spiritually and then in other areas like building expansion and out reach ministries, membership and your church has been around for 50 years something is up with that. I think continuing one's formal education is great but I know some pastors who are very learned in the word/ very wise men. They were personally educated by God.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

I look for fruit.

If his own family doesn't like him or support him, chances are his church persona doesn't match his home persona. RED FLAG!

If he can't apologize when he misses it and take responsibility for his actions, he lacks integrity. RED FLAG!

If there is no progress that probably means that he's acting without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. If the Holy Spirit is involved there will always be fruit.

If he doesn't genuinely like/love people then he has no business in the pulpit.

If he feels that he is the dictator of the church and is never held accountable for his actions, that's a no.

Personal Preferences:
I prefer a male pastor
I prefer teaching to preaching
I prefer my pastor to be married
I prefer a pastor who writes and speaks well regardless of education
I prefer a pastor to be transparent and humble.
I EXPECT him to teach the word of God and apply it to today.
I EXPECT my pastor to operate at the highest level of excellence and integrity.

I agree 100%... recently my pastor switched to the New Reader's Version of the bible cuz it makes it easier to understand for us millenials... I don't really have a translation preference but it was nice to hear him keeping with the times...
And marriage is a big deal to me too... I feel like having a family shows that you are experiencing the same things as everyone. The pastor has the same struggles that he preaches about. That is a huge plus to me...

As far as the teaching... I don't really like advice... I want to learn something from you and apply it to my life. I want to hear what God is saying.
I went to a church and the pastor was like "Sell everything you have! Sell your houses, your furniture... Sell it all" I was like... thats advice lady, show me some biblical and theological truths please.

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

Here is what I look for in a spiritual leader.

1 Tim 3:1-7
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.

You are right we do know the tree by the fruit it bears. If you cannot see tangible growth first spiritually and then in other areas like building expansion and out reach ministries, membership and your church has been around for 50 years something is up with that. I think continuing one's formal education is great but I know some pastors who are very learned in the word/ very wise men. They were personally educated by God.

I think that is a great quality of a minister, but I just think that seeking guidance from seminaries etc. shows that you're invested in telling the truth to the congregation... That's just me though, I think that without a traditional education you can be very wise, but I just want more than that from a pastor... Especially considering the attacks on Christianity this day in age. We have to be SO PREPARED

 

[HeChangedMyName]

Honestly, transparency and the desire and willingness to be used by God. Education is great, my pastor is in school now for his masters I think.

 

[aribell]

I think the characteristics that have been listed are really good. I've seen pastors get caught up in the numbers trap, though; counting every Sunday and judging the church by how many are in the pews. I have mixed feelings about that, though I do believe that if you are really feeding the sheep, more sheep will come. If they're not coming, it's because they're not being spiritually fed.

 

[Prudent1]

Oh yes, ITA My entire leadership staff and their spouses attend various conferences to stay abreast on important issues. I just meant that if all of that were to go away at my spiritual leader's core I expect the things God outlined.

 

[royalty84]

Theres's so much to say, but I'm at work, lol

I agree with most of the qualifications that were listed by everyone here. Like the OP said-examining the fruit is so important. I basically look for a pastor who knows how to teach the word, and is able to communicate that in love & accuracy. The Lifestyle needs to follow what is being preached. They should have a servant's heart. I also agree that they should always continue to learn more about the word, and invest in educating themselves concerning the word. Seminary(i.e. Cemetary) is not a must for me, because so many who teach in Seminaries know so much Word, and don't believe a lick of it. Reputable Classes/Seminars and the like are good enough for me. The whole marriage thing is not so important to me anymore because leader or not, life happens and throws some curves-spouses can die and/or go crazy (I've seen both) and you can't completely stop pastoring because stuff happens (though you should take a break for awhile until you're healed).


I believe someone already mentioned it, but can I harp on somethin' real quick? I think we should keep in mind that size doesn't always tell you a lot about a church. We should also remember not to despise the day of small beginnings. Every church is not meant to be a large/mega/collossal church, because every pastor is not called to have tons of people under their care. And I know that's not what any of you were saying-but a lot of people think that's it's a sign of spiritual success, when it's not. To me, church success and the quality of leadership is measured in the CHANGED lives of the people attending that church. Churches in the bible were in houses, and some of those small house churches did more than a city full a churches put together. A couple of desciples turned the world upside down! Better to have a faithful few that a bunch of people who hear the word and do nothing! There are some big churches that are advancing and growing, but have the biggest hypocrites, and allow (and sometimes even promote) rampant sin. *steps off soapbox*

OP please don't have the urshers escort me out the thread for that long rant LOL

 

[music-bnatural-smile]

Theres's so much to say, but I'm at work, lol

I agree with most of the qualifications that were listed by everyone here. Like the OP said-examining the fruit is so important. I basically look for a pastor who knows how to teach the word, and is able to communicate that in love & accuracy. The Lifestyle needs to follow what is being preached. They should have a servant's heart. I also agree that they should always continue to learn more about the word, and invest in educating themselves concerning the word. Seminary(i.e. Cemetary) is not a must for me, because so many who teach in Seminaries know so much Word, and don't believe a lick of it. Reputable Classes/Seminars and the like are good enough for me. The whole marriage thing is not so important to me anymore because leader or not, life happens and throws some curves-spouses can die and/or go crazy (I've seen both) and you can't completely stop pastoring because stuff happens (though you should take a break for awhile until you're healed).


I believe someone already mentioned it, but can I harp on somethin' real quick? I think we should keep in mind that size doesn't always tell you a lot about a church. We should also remember not to despise the day of small beginnings. Every church is not meant to be a large/mega/collossal church, because every pastor is not called to have tons of people under their care. And I know that's not what any of you were saying-but a lot of people think that's it's a sign of spiritual success, when it's not. To me, church success and the quality of leadership is measured in the CHANGED lives of the people attending that church. Churches in the bible were in houses, and some of those small house churches did more than a city full a churches put together. A couple of desciples turned the world upside down! Better to have a faithful few that a bunch of people who hear the word and do nothing! There are some big churches that are advancing and growing, but have the biggest hypocrites, and allow (and sometimes even promote) rampant sin. *steps off soapbox*

OP please don't have the urshers escort me out the thread for that long rant LOL

LOL girl u know i'm not an ursher, and I sure aint an elder... you're safe

And also, I hadn't thought of the top bolded... that is indeed a big deal as well... its just I have visited many a negative small church, but also my church was little once... so was another great one I can think of... they just built a building... so i agree with u

 

[momi]

I believe someone already mentioned it, but can I harp on somethin' real quick? I think we should keep in mind that size doesn't always tell you a lot about a church. We should also remember not to despise the day of small beginnings. Every church is not meant to be a large/mega/collossal church, because every pastor is not called to have tons of people under their care. And I know that's not what any of you were saying-but a lot of people think that's it's a sign of spiritual success, when it's not. To me, church success and the quality of leadership is measured in the CHANGED lives of the people attending that church. Churches in the bible were in houses, and some of those small house churches did more than a city full a churches put together. A couple of desciples turned the world upside down! Better to have a faithful few that a bunch of people who hear the word and do nothing! There are some big churches that are advancing and growing, but have the biggest hypocrites, and allow (and sometimes even promote) rampant sin. *steps off soapbox*

OP please don't have the urshers escort me out the thread for that long rant LOL

I agree with this statement - when I hear of "church growth" being a measuring tool for sound doctrine/teaching this text always comes to mind: John 6:66
Growth does not always mean individuals are truly being discipled in the things of God - many run to large congregations to "hide".

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

 

[Highly Favored8]

I agree with this statement - when I hear of "church growth" being a measuring tool for sound doctrine/teaching this text always comes to mind: John 6:66
Growth does not always mean individuals are truly being discipled in the things of God - many run to large congregations to "hide".

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." 66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

When you say "many run to large congregations to "hide" I hear this one a whole lot what does that mean? What are "they" hiding from? No man can hide from God! Maybe the church however, not from God.

 

[Highly Favored8]

OP interesting thread. Now you have some very good points. However a pastor can be all that and then some - However, when he dishonors the union of marriage- I am out.

So when it comes to pastor credibility, then I must say his marriage does he really honors his vows. No funny business in his congeration.

 

[Prudent1]

When you say "many run to large congregations to "hide" I hear this one a whole lot what does that mean? What are "they" hiding from? No man can hide from God! Maybe the church however, not from God.

They are hiding from the Truth. They have what the bible calls itching ears. The word is sharper than any 2 edged sword so when the truth is being told it will make you uncomfortable initially then you have a choice to change or to ignore the truth. God's truth is not subjective it is absolute but that's not PC.

 

[Highly Favored8]

They are hiding from the Truth. They have what the bible calls itching ears. The word is sharper than any 2 edged sword so when the truth is being told it will make you uncomfortable initially then you have a choice to change or to ignore the truth. God's truth is not subjective it is absolute but that's not PC.

Even large churches they still cannot hide from the truth. The truth is going to convict them. Also God knows their heart. I mean we can hide from one another all day. However, we cannot hide from God b/c he knows our hearts.

 

[blazingthru]

I look for fruit.

Personal Preferences:
I prefer a male pastor
I prefer teaching to preaching
I prefer my pastor to be married
I prefer a pastor who writes and speaks well regardless of education
I prefer a pastor to be transparent and humble.
I EXPECT him to teach the word of God and apply it to today.
I EXPECT my pastor to operate at the highest level of excellence and integrity.

I love all of this. Teaching is important to me. know the word through and through. I love my pastor because I feel he has all of this and above and it gives me great pleasure to share a meal with him and his wife each week. he also showed me some things about myself i wasn't even aware of and to me that right there told me he is working with the holy spirit.

 

[Sweet C]

When you say "many run to large congregations to "hide" I hear this one a whole lot what does that mean? What are "they" hiding from? No man can hide from God! Maybe the church however, not from God.

Some people go to large churches so they can "hide" from accountability. A person with that in mind will choose a large church so they can hear some good singing, awesome Word, but they aren't going to be expected to be accountable to others in the body regarding their lifestyle. That is not as easy to do in a smaller church.

 

[momi]

They are hiding from the Truth. They have what the bible calls itching ears. The word is sharper than any 2 edged sword so when the truth is being told it will make you uncomfortable initially then you have a choice to change or to ignore the truth. God's truth is not subjective it is absolute but that's not PC.

Amen.

Some people go to large churches so they can "hide" from accountability. A person with that in mind will choose a large church so they can hear some good singing, awesome Word, but they aren't going to be expected to be accountable to others in the body regarding their lifestyle. That is not as easy to do in a smaller church.

Exactly, you can "blend in" at a mega-church without anyone knowing your name or anything about you leaving you accountable to know one. That is why you will find large churches that actually practice discipleship will generally have strong small group ministries.

Even large churches they still cannot hide from the truth. The truth is going to convict them. Also God knows their heart. I mean we can hide from one another all day. However, we cannot hide from God b/c he knows our hearts.

Proverbs tells us that we have to "buy the truth and sell it not". Truth is always available but we have to "purchase" it for ourselves.